Coronovirus Mortgage and Real Estate Crisis of 2020- NOT !

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
568
51
28
Oh I have a lot of knowledge Moe- as an investor, a real estate investor, a businessman and a person whose family was bludgeoned by the sub-prime crisis. This experience dates back to 1981, so spare me your condescension. At the peak of my business career, my business was in the Top 100 in the U.S., in my category. A business I started with a $25 answering machine in a rented condo. My wife and I have been married for close to 40 years. We have two adult children that are college graduates and are successful now in their own careers.

Information and facts you say? Coming up my friend. Here's just the beginning. You'll see that I am naturally drawn toward information and facts that look for the silver lining when problems arise. I will always read the 'gloom and doom' stuff too, for perspective. Sometimes, the gloom and doom predictions (you're favorite?) have merit. In this case, I think they'll be proven wrong.
Can you tell me how things are going with your Father?

I know things have been rough since you lost your home, and had to move back in with parents, but you are not fooling anyone here. I don't know why it is -- that you are still drawn to this site, but move on honey. You come across so pathetic in your posts, and desperate. It's not a good look.
 
C

Chasegame two

Guest
Can you tell me how things are going with your Father?

I know things have been rough since you lost your home, and had to move back in with parents, but you are not fooling anyone here. I don't know why it is -- that you are still drawn to this site, but move on honey. You come across so pathetic in your posts, and desperate. It's not a good look.
Thank you for the encouragement!

For what its worth, my Dad passed away in 1990. And, thanks in part to this website, we never lost our home. Also, I moved out of my parents home to attend college when I was 18 years old.

So, I'm not sure who you are referring to, but clearly you are mistaken. Just do a search here on this website under everything Chasegame. That's me.

We had an underwater 2nd with Chase and our 1st with Chase as well. Tom Eason's Strategy for Settling Seconds provided valuable insights and information that we followed. Ultimately we decided to go silent with RTR (they had our 2nd for awhile) because our settlement attempts were going nowhere. RTR must have given up too as they sent our 2nd back to Chase! Then out of nowhere, Chase released us from the second. We got their letter in the mail. Before celebrating or telling my wife, I went to the county recorder and sure enough, they released it.

This prompted me to re-engage here and share my story in the hope that it might help someone else.
 
S

Smile Back

Guest
I maybe new here but just like some of you guys, I also experienced traumatic experiences in this crisis since 2010 and spent close to thousands - 40 grand + - just because I was disempowered. It’s a long story but the main essence is is I survived - hopefully to help others not to be “stupid” or ignorant as what Moe may meant.

it’s on you guys. This covid is getting us anxious and may say worlds without intending to offend.
Let’s just rest awhile and be grateful for whatever good we have. Not everyone got it. Time to reflect and maybe choose our words. We’re all in this together. We’ve been helped by this forum one way or another. Let’s acknowledge that and try to be courteous. Let’s contribute for the majority and wait. Crisis is just starting. Let’s see ... thanks.
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
1,788
248
63
North bay
Caveat to anyone on this forum: never screw with Krafty. He and I often see things differently but we disagree as friends and with respect. Dissent in our discussions is productive and the point is not about being right but using the opportunity to expand our understanding.

Krafty is a gentleman and a scholar and a better man to have on your side than against you.
 
S

Smile Back

Guest
I’m sorry for some typos. I mean “ It’s not on you”. This Covid 19 is so unprecedented & unpredictable ( given no vaccine to date) -even best minds can’t find solutions to get the world back to “normal “ or at least “safe” conditions and stop further deaths.

Try to read news on how other countries handle this and it will remind us all “ how lucky we all are to be living in the USA - and be proud Americans.

RE: forbearance millions of homeowners have already taken, given the unresolved “ Great Recession”, where most homeowners have NOT been “fully “ modified- meaning banks held 2nds w/c used to be of no value but now becomes positive due to increased RE valuation, Or most were extended term to 40 years and same balance with not much equity. Worse, are those HAMP modifications, not aware taking forbearance- that HAMP will be nullified - bringing them back to high interest / high principal loans- until- the end of forbearance- when they thought they can re- modify - but lo & behold- banks knew & it’s MaYBE worse than 2008 Great Recession all over again.

How do we help these ppl ? I think is challenge for all of us - who has learned the ropes and got one or two knowledge picked up past 10 years. This is the time to care, be calm to beat covid 19.


chasegamer 2- maybe you can tell us what you did & how RTR gave up on you; Chase “forgave “ your 2nd,, is my understanding right? Or give this forum - some tips, based on your readings - the oversight agency, if any, who can verify what HAMP Directives for homeowners to know.
For getting your 2nd forgiven is one big blessing and maybe share this - thru the kindness of your heart, if you care to? Thanks again
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
1,788
248
63
North bay
Can you tell me how things are going with your Father?

I know things have been rough since you lost your home, and had to move back in with parents, but you are not fooling anyone here. I don't know why it is -- that you are still drawn to this site, but move on honey. You come across so pathetic in your posts, and desperate. It's not a good look.
OHM,

I don't think that Chasegame two is the return of Patzz. Completely different writing style and I can't quite see her creating a completely new persona out of whole cloth. He seems interesting and resilient. Let's all try to play nice and give him a chance.

CG2, just remember all of us are used to fighting the banks and arguing with their attorneys. Tends to make us a bit testy.
 
C

Chasegame two

Guest
I’m sorry for some typos. I mean “ It’s not on you”. This Covid 19 is so unprecedented & unpredictable ( given no vaccine to date) -even best minds can’t find solutions to get the world back to “normal “ or at least “safe” conditions and stop further deaths.

Try to read news on how other countries handle this and it will remind us all “ how lucky we all are to be living in the USA - and be proud Americans.

RE: forbearance millions of homeowners have already taken, given the unresolved “ Great Recession”, where most homeowners have NOT been “fully “ modified- meaning banks held 2nds w/c used to be of no value but now becomes positive due to increased RE valuation, Or most were extended term to 40 years and same balance with not much equity. Worse, are those HAMP modifications, not aware taking forbearance- that HAMP will be nullified - bringing them back to high interest / high principal loans- until- the end of forbearance- when they thought they can re- modify - but lo & behold- banks knew & it’s MaYBE worse than 2008 Great Recession all over again.

How do we help these ppl ? I think is challenge for all of us - who has learned the ropes and got one or two knowledge picked up past 10 years. This is the time to care, be calm to beat covid 19.


chasegamer 2- maybe you can tell us what you did & how RTR gave up on you; Chase “forgave “ your 2nd,, is my understanding right? Or give this forum - some tips, based on your readings - the oversight agency, if any, who can verify what HAMP Directives for homeowners to know.
For getting your 2nd forgiven is one big blessing and maybe share this - thru the kindness of your heart, if you care to? Thanks again
Smile Back (love that handle btw)- you should be able to find my previous posts here and they may go back to 2014. They'll all be as Chasegame or similar. As noted, I had difficulty signing in here as just Chasegame during some website issues- hence the newer 'Chasegame two'. I had to start this thread because I still cannot post in most of the older threads here.

Here's a new general summary. (The dollars amounts I'm listing will be rough numbers because I'm too lazy right now to look for the actuals, but again, they're here on this site). Our original 1st was WAMU. Our original 2nd (HELOC) was also WAMU. Both of these loans became Chase loans.

We were bludgeoned during the sub-prime crisis. Not just the real estate we owned, but also our business went through a natural disaster at the same time. Like many, we went from pretty significant success and wealth to being forced to file Chapter 7. Brutal.

After the Chapter 7 we had some time to breathe. Looking back, that bankruptcy was such a blessing. We were barely able to hang on to our home and stayed current on our first, and the 2nd, but time was running out. That's when I found this website and specifically Tom Eason's Strategy for Settling Seconds. The information and testimonials in that thread gave me comfort, knowledge and a strategy.

Our 2nd ($250,000) was underwater by about $100-$150,000 at that time, so, following the strategy, we stopped making payments on it.

Like clockwork, as the strategy predicted, we started getting calls from Chase. I spoke to them several times, acted disinterested in even keeping the home, refused to provide financials and offered I think was around $6k to settle it. They said no, sent us all the Loan Mod paperwork several times, pushed HARD for us to make even token payments. Without success, I sent them a letter asking them not to call me anymore and just to communicate in writing. Several back and forths, and I upped the settlement offer to $7500 from what I remember. I did get a letter back each time saying essentially my offer could not be accepted. Then silence.

Not sure the gap in time but I was then noticed by Chase that my 2nd was now being serviced by RTR. So we started again with RTR, same pressure tactics, same suggestions (loan mod. blah blah). I recall at one point the RTR rep said "Chase will not accept anything less than $65,000 without financials". Pretty sure she goofed in telling me that, but I celebrated that night thinking I had finally broken through. We didn't have the $65k, but if i could settle $250k for $65k I was all over it. I sent her a letter the next day to memorialize her statement (very key) and once again offered $7500. Then I decided, per the strategy, to go silent. I didn't answer their calls. They even tried calling me with random numbers. Several months later I received a letter from RTR saying they had returned our file back to Chase! (no explanation as to why)

The irony and agony developing was watching our home value start to recover and recover quickly. Eventually the value was there, in fact, by my estimation, there was $100,000 minimum equity, and growing, over and above the 1st, 2nd, realtor fees, and fix up costs. If Chase had decided to foreclose on the second we were cooked. My only hope, and plan was, if they pursued foreclosure was to agree to whatever 'alternative' they suggested. We would have had no other option.

We heard nothing. For several years, nothing. We kept current on our first. Then, out of nowhere, I received a letter from Chase that the debt was released. They included a copy of the release document that had our county recorder stamp on it. I verified it at the county myself the next day.

That's when I signed in (or tried) again here, to share our story, say thank you for The Strategy and maybe offer some hope to others.

My apologies for the grammar and typos. I'm 1 full glass of cabernet in, on a Friday night : ) .
 
C

Chasegame two

Guest
OHM,

I don't think that Chasegame two is the return of Patzz. Completely different writing style and I can't quite see her creating a completely new persona out of whole cloth. He seems interesting and resilient. Let's all try to play nice and give him a chance.

CG2, just remember all of us are used to fighting the banks and arguing with their attorneys. Tends to make us a bit testy.
Thank you isisis.

I can't relate to arguing most days with bank attorneys, but I certainly can understand the frustration.
 
C

Chasegame two

Guest
FWIW- I watched a very well produced 2018 documentary on Amazon Prime (maybe HBO?) this week on the 2008 financial crisis. Amazing inside info with all the players (Geitner, Bernanke, Paulson et al). Fascinating. Infuriating.
Vice Special Report: Panic: The Untold Story of the 2008 Financial Crisis.
 
D

D.M.C.

Guest
I'll take an opposing viewpoint here, from my good friend Moe, and based upon my experience as a businessman, investor & real estate investor since 1981.

The current Coronavirus drama, angst, layoffs etc. are based upon uncertainty and rightly so. Ditto at the onset of the previous Sub-Prime crisis.

The difference this time will be:

1. The uncertainty will be resolved fairly quickly (malaria medicine etc) with permanent vaccination talk further easing concerns.
2. The most currently affected businesses will quickly re-open, re-hire. Late Spring/Early Summer.
3. The current POTUS (like him or hate him) understands business and is surrounded by business experts (not 'yes men')
4. Mortgage lenders/investors are being overly paranoid and cautious-fearing deja vu, but are comparing oranges to apples.
5. There is too much pent up demand for homes.
6. Before someone in China ate bat soup (or whatever), the U.S. economy was raging on solid fundamentals, record low unemployment, increasing wages and on and on and on......

In summary, this virus issue will be resolved very soon. In the very (very) short term there will be some economic trauma that will take a few months to recover from. But this is no way going to replicate the sub-prime crisis. No way.
Go to Federal Reserve website and look up TALF. Sure thing. Master Optimist : )
 
C

Chasegame two

Guest
Go to Federal Reserve website and look up TALF. Sure thing. Master Optimist : )
I'm certainly no expert and frankly surprised this succeeded, but I have read this several times now:

TALF's Success
Over the life of the program, all TALF loans were repaid in full at or before their respective maturity dates. The New York Fed did not incur a loss on any TALF loan, according to the Fed. As all TALF loans were repaid in full, no TALF collateral was surrendered to the New York Fed, and TALF LLC acquired no such assets during its existence.