Wells Fargo Victory. Finally done

pbhome

LoanSafe Member
#21
Hi Shane

I have received my final modification papers yesterday. Myself and my wife was TOTALLy surprised to see that WF has forgived part of my principal (nearly 35K+). I kept reading multiple teams to make sure I understood that is the case...it seems to be.

Do you think I should review this with lawyer ?

Here is some part of the new agreement which I am not clear about:

"That, as of the Modification Effective date, notwithstanding any other provision of the Loan Documents, I agree as follows: If all or any part of the Property or any interest in it is sold or transferred without Lender's prior written consent, Lender may, at its option, require immediate payment in full of all sums secured by the Mortgage. If lender exercise this option, lender shall give me notice of acceleration. The notice shall provide a period of not less than 30 days from the date the notice is delivered or mailed within which I must pay all sums secured by the Mortgage. ....."

what does this mean ? I wonder if I ever to sell the house are they putting some limitations. In other words would they demand original full mortgage (before mod) in any condition - my understanding is NOT... Please clarify if you had similar language in your document.

Also this brings me 2nd question on my 2nd loan - With forgives principal - total loan to value including 2nd puts within 100% now. I wonder this will be disadvantage to me in terms of settling for 2nd ? Though overall it should be good, I wonder when i accept 1st loan mod, 2nd lender will see that in my credit report - which could make them NOT to easily settle on 2nd ?

Appreciate your time reading these.
 

bigshan1

LoanSafe Member
#22
Hi Shane

I have received my final modification papers yesterday. Myself and my wife was TOTALLy surprised to see that WF has forgived part of my principal (nearly 35K+). I kept reading multiple teams to make sure I understood that is the case...it seems to be.

Do you think I should review this with lawyer ?

Here is some part of the new agreement which I am not clear about:

"That, as of the Modification Effective date, notwithstanding any other provision of the Loan Documents, I agree as follows: If all or any part of the Property or any interest in it is sold or transferred without Lender's prior written consent, Lender may, at its option, require immediate payment in full of all sums secured by the Mortgage. If lender exercise this option, lender shall give me notice of acceleration. The notice shall provide a period of not less than 30 days from the date the notice is delivered or mailed within which I must pay all sums secured by the Mortgage. ....."

what does this mean ? I wonder if I ever to sell the house are they putting some limitations. In other words would they demand original full mortgage (before mod) in any condition - my understanding is NOT... Please clarify if you had similar language in your document.

Also this brings me 2nd question on my 2nd loan - With forgives principal - total loan to value including 2nd puts within 100% now. I wonder this will be disadvantage to me in terms of settling for 2nd ? Though overall it should be good, I wonder when i accept 1st loan mod, 2nd lender will see that in my credit report - which could make them NOT to easily settle on 2nd ?

Appreciate your time reading these.
What are the terms and interest rate of you Mod? Is it HAMP or an in house? That fact that Wells forgave that much principle is great! I didn't that sweet a deal! Don't waste your money on a lawyer to review the paperwork. Just call the phone number listed on the paperwork. That's probably all the lawyer will do, except charge you $300 for an hour of his or her time. Just make sure to make sure the final paperwork requires a notary. It will be obvious if so. Mine did NOT. As far as your second, ask yourself if the second forcloses on the house, would that said 2nd get any positive cash flow from the sale of the house. Basically, do you now have equity? If that is still a no, and your second what get zero, you should still be able to settle your second.

Congrats BTW
-Shane
 

pbhome

LoanSafe Member
#23
First 5 yrs 2.125%, 6th yr 3.125% and from 7-end 3.375% fixed there.. I think it is HAMP, it says making home affordable and points to HAMP site for 2nd mortgage mod..But not sure absolutely. What would be the difference if any ? I though you got your 2nd loan wiped off as well ?

Can you comment on this specific question? Did you had similar language in your case ?


"That, as of the Modification Effective date, notwithstanding any other provision of the Loan Documents, I agree as follows: If all or any part of the Property or any interest in it is sold or transferred without Lender's prior written consent, Lender may, at its option, require immediate payment in full of all sums secured by the Mortgage. If lender exercise this option, lender shall give me notice of acceleration. The notice shall provide a period of not less than 30 days from the date the notice is delivered or mailed within which I must pay all sums secured by the Mortgage. ....."

I just wanted to make sure after mod I can sell the house at some point and don't have to pay back forgiven principal....Language is not clear to me.

For the 2nd, I haven't responded yet, they have been calling me. I planned to respond now. So I don't know their position yet, I got a letter from Loss management team once (few weeks back) asking me to call back. With post mod I may have 10-20K equity but that is based on Zillow price..so you can almost no or not much of equity.

Thanks for your time in reading this and comments.
 

bigshan1

LoanSafe Member
#24
First 5 yrs 2.125%, 6th yr 3.125% and from 7-end 3.375% fixed there.. I think it is HAMP, it says making home affordable and points to HAMP site for 2nd mortgage mod..But not sure absolutely. What would be the difference if any ? I though you got your 2nd loan wiped off as well ?

Can you comment on this specific question? Did you had similar language in your case ?


"That, as of the Modification Effective date, notwithstanding any other provision of the Loan Documents, I agree as follows: If all or any part of the Property or any interest in it is sold or transferred without Lender's prior written consent, Lender may, at its option, require immediate payment in full of all sums secured by the Mortgage. If lender exercise this option, lender shall give me notice of acceleration. The notice shall provide a period of not less than 30 days from the date the notice is delivered or mailed within which I must pay all sums secured by the Mortgage. ....."

I just wanted to make sure after mod I can sell the house at some point and don't have to pay back forgiven principal....Language is not clear to me.

For the 2nd, I haven't responded yet, they have been calling me. I planned to respond now. So I don't know their position yet, I got a letter from Loss management team once (few weeks back) asking me to call back. With post mod I may have 10-20K equity but that is based on Zillow price..so you can almost no or not much of equity.

Thanks for your time in reading this and comments.

Yeah, it's definitely HAMP. You got some great rates. Good for you! I'll have to re read my loan docs and see if that language is in there. I think there is a time period you must stay in the house before selling, but I thougt it was 5yrs. I'll check and let you know what my loan docs say. No, my second was not wiped out. I was able to settle my second at 17% of the total loan amount because I was so severly underwater. I wish it was wiped out...that would of saved me $25,000!!!!

-Shane
 

bigshan1

LoanSafe Member
#25
pbhome,
After reviewing my loan paperwork, I also have the same paragraph within. After doing some research, it seems you can sell the house at any time so long as there is equity. The only issue you may have is if you have to sell your home for less than the full amount of your loan. In that case you would be seeking a short sale and would need your lender's approval. If Cat, Evan or Tom are monitoring, maybe they can chime since they know a whole lot more than me on this issue.

-Shane
 
#26
First 5 yrs 2.125%, 6th yr 3.125% and from 7-end 3.375% fixed there.. I think it is HAMP, it says making home affordable and points to HAMP site for 2nd mortgage mod..But not sure absolutely. What would be the difference if any ? I though you got your 2nd loan wiped off as well ?

Can you comment on this specific question? Did you had similar language in your case ?


"That, as of the Modification Effective date, notwithstanding any other provision of the Loan Documents, I agree as follows: If all or any part of the Property or any interest in it is sold or transferred without Lender's prior written consent, Lender may, at its option, require immediate payment in full of all sums secured by the Mortgage. If lender exercise this option, lender shall give me notice of acceleration. The notice shall provide a period of not less than 30 days from the date the notice is delivered or mailed within which I must pay all sums secured by the Mortgage. ....."

I just wanted to make sure after mod I can sell the house at some point and don't have to pay back forgiven principal....Language is not clear to me.

For the 2nd, I haven't responded yet, they have been calling me. I planned to respond now. So I don't know their position yet, I got a letter from Loss management team once (few weeks back) asking me to call back. With post mod I may have 10-20K equity but that is based on Zillow price..so you can almost no or not much of equity.

Thanks for your time in reading this and comments.
If your principal forgiveness is given over a period of time, then you may not be able to sell prior to that without having to pay back all of the sums that were the original unpaid principal balance. If you are unclear on any of your documents, you may want to sit down with either a real estate attorney or a real estate broker to go over them with you.
 

pbhome

LoanSafe Member
#27
Shane and Cat Damiano

Thanks for your comments. My principal forgiveness is effective upon signing agreement (right away) and agreement says

" we will forgive a portion of outstanding principal equal to xxxxx. You will never be required to repay this amount. However, there could be income tax consequences, related to forgiveness... "

Also in detail section it says "The modified principal balance will include all amounts and arrearages that will be past due as of the Modification effective date (in this case 12/1/12) less any amounts paid to the lender but not previously credited to the loan and less principal in the amount of xxxxx which has been forgiven. "

As per above it seems once I sign the agreement I should never have to repay the forgiven balance even if I let say sell it after 3 months from signing the agreeement. The paragraph below which is from the agreement is what really NOT clear to me and want to confirm whether it impose any restrictions on any selling.

"That, as of the Modification Effective date, notwithstanding any other provision of the Loan Documents, I agree as follows: If all or any part of the Property or any interest in it is sold or transferred without Lender's prior written consent, Lender may, at its option, require immediate payment in full of all sums secured by the Mortgage. If lender exercise this option, lender shall give me notice of acceleration. The notice shall provide a period of not less than 30 days from the date the notice is delivered or mailed within which I must pay all sums secured by the Mortgage. ....."

Does above para says that if I sell the property before modification effective date (12/1) then I should be paying back entire mortgage which pre-modification balance ?

Are there any general HAMP rules that applies to me even if NOT in my agreement ? I guess any rule applies to my mortgage must be in the modification agreement ?

Appreciate your clarification here...
 

pbhome

LoanSafe Member
#28
Some more questions to be specific:

I don't see anywhere in my document that states that I have to give back for forgived amount (except for the clause mentioned above which Shane confirmed it is for future sale).

But I see HAMP rule that if we sell house <3 yrs then forgived balance may have to be returned. Does this rule apply to me eventhough I don't have in my agreement ? I don't expect it so....but is what I wanted to confirm.
 
#29
Some more questions to be specific:

I don't see anywhere in my document that states that I have to give back for forgived amount (except for the clause mentioned above which Shane confirmed it is for future sale).

But I see HAMP rule that if we sell house <3 yrs then forgived balance may have to be returned. Does this rule apply to me eventhough I don't have in my agreement ? I don't expect it so....but is what I wanted to confirm.
You really need to take your documents to an attorney to review with you and ask your questions while they have the documents in hand and would be able to best assist you. It is very difficult for us to comment or advise on excerpts of documents.
 

pbhome

LoanSafe Member
#30
You really need to take your documents to an attorney to review with you and ask your questions while they have the documents in hand and would be able to best assist you. It is very difficult for us to comment or advise on excerpts of documents.
Hi Cat

I understand your point, just fragments of doc doesn't provide the entire context. I was able to discuss entire doc with the rep from bank and my close friends who both clarified that principal reduction is permanent upon modification right away and no waiting period. I assume with that general rules of HAMP as stated in makinghomeaffordable.gov doesn't apply to me here where it states generally if you were offered principal reduction and if you sell house <3 yrs then forgived principal may have to be paid back..

Thanks for your help ! I just signed the doc day before and in process with WF to permanently modify them. This forum has been greatly helpful in acquiring knowledge about this process...
 
#31
Hi Cat

I understand your point, just fragments of doc doesn't provide the entire context. I was able to discuss entire doc with the rep from bank and my close friends who both clarified that principal reduction is permanent upon modification right away and no waiting period. I assume with that general rules of HAMP as stated in makinghomeaffordable.gov doesn't apply to me here where it states generally if you were offered principal reduction and if you sell house <3 yrs then forgived principal may have to be paid back..

Thanks for your help ! I just signed the doc day before and in process with WF to permanently modify them. This forum has been greatly helpful in acquiring knowledge about this process...
I am so happy that you were able to find someone to go over the docs in detail with you, this is very important to understanding what it is that you are signing. Congratulations Again!
 

SFbell

LoanSafe Member
#32
Hello all. I was notified today that my final signed HAMP loan docs have been recieved and to contact customer service from now since my process is complete. I never thought I'd say this...but I WON! Between my long battle with HAMP, several denials and the lengthy process in settling my second, I must say my MAIN source of guidance was this forum. For the last two years I was on this site on a daily basis educating myself by asking questions and learning from others. It has all worked out in the end. My second is GONE, my first is HAMP'd and I keep my house! The only repercussion is a dinged credit score. Totally worth the price. For all of you who took the time to care and answer my questions, I thank you for your compassion and having a servants heart...CAT, T.E., Evan, and all those whom I fail to mention. If theres anything I can do to pay it forward, I will. :amuse:

Forever Grateful
Shane
 

SFbell

LoanSafe Member
#33
Hi Shane,

Did Wells Fargo send you a letter congratulating you of a permanent mod? If so, would you be kind enough to send me a copy? I am in litigation with WF right now and would like to compare congratulatory letters for my case. Thank you.