Wells Fargo Victory. Finally done

bigshan1

LoanSafe Member
#1
Hello all. I was notified today that my final signed HAMP loan docs have been recieved and to contact customer service from now since my process is complete. I never thought I'd say this...but I WON! Between my long battle with HAMP, several denials and the lengthy process in settling my second, I must say my MAIN source of guidance was this forum. For the last two years I was on this site on a daily basis educating myself by asking questions and learning from others. It has all worked out in the end. My second is GONE, my first is HAMP'd and I keep my house! The only repercussion is a dinged credit score. Totally worth the price. For all of you who took the time to care and answer my questions, I thank you for your compassion and having a servants heart...CAT, T.E., Evan, and all those whom I fail to mention. If theres anything I can do to pay it forward, I will. :amuse:

Forever Grateful
Shane
 

Evan Bedard

Call 1-800-779-4547
Loan Safe Mortgage
#2
I'm so happy to hear your journey is finally complete Shane! Your hard work and due diligence over these past few years was bound to pay off and I'm glad everything has worked out for the best!
 
#3
Shane,


That is such great news! I am so happy for you! Congratulations on completing the journey successfully!
 

pbhome

LoanSafe Member
#4
Shane, Congratulations ! This is really a good news and should be a big relief for you.

Can your status in terms of LTV, loan amount range, lender, state, etc for both 1st and 2nd before modification ?

I have my 1st with WF and have just applied for modification and waiting for reply. Appreciate your inputs and recommendations to deal with them.

Haven't started work on 2nd yeT just beginning to.
 

bigshan1

LoanSafe Member
#5
Shane, Congratulations ! This is really a good news and should be a big relief for you.

Can your status in terms of LTV, loan amount range, lender, state, etc for both 1st and 2nd before modification ?

I have my 1st with WF and have just applied for modification and waiting for reply. Appreciate your inputs and recommendations to deal with them.

Haven't started work on 2nd yeT just beginning to.
Hello pbhome....yes, huge relief is exactly what it is. Of course I'll share my numbers....

I bought my house in Southern Cailfornia in 2007 for $569,000. My first and second were with WF. My first was an Interest Only for $417,000 and my second (home equity loan) was $152,000. After being denied several loan mods, I stopped paying my second in March 2011. At this point my house was worth around $370,000; thus I stopped paying. Around this time my LTV was about %151. I started the HAMP process in Feburary 2012 and finalized everything in this month. My current LTV is %111. Amazing what erasing a 2nd can do!

My advise for your mod on your first loan is be annoying, persistant and call every monday and friday. The squeaky wheel gets the grease! Also, follow this link to monitor your progress...

https://portal.earlyresolution.net/...ldoxDiHTl3p2HunkeeRaZPBUnLWHXTmMzwaoPOnv5m.go

Remember, call often! They WILL NOT call you like they say they will. You need to call them!

Shane
 

pbhome

LoanSafe Member
#6
Thanks for the tips!. I would like to understand your experience bit in detail to give my best try at it, if you may clarify questions below.

To give you context here is my situation:

House purchased in 2006 for $700,000
Current value as per Zillow: $597, a month ago it was close $580,000, current value on Zillow reflects seasonal peak
1st laon WF: 550,000 (Payment behind 80 days)
2nd LOAN (Credit union in WA) : 60,000 (Payment interest only now) (Payment 1st month overdue)
Hardship reasons: Student loan payments begun recetnly, college debt obligations, Mortgage payment shot up during recent reset last dec, etc, as a result overall cashflow is -ve or close to 100%.

Goal: Reduce payment on 1st mortgage, 2nd reduce int rate and/or settle for some cash payment (ideal case). If nothing happens, walkaway/short sale.


Questions:
1. How many times you have applied for Loan mod in total before it got approved finally?
2. You said it was rejected multiple times, why it was rejected each time and how did you overcome each of them ? Little bit of detail would help here as I am stage of waiting for their answer right now.
3. Is there waiting time between the time they rejected a loan modify before you can reapply ? Is there criteria to be met to be considered for loan mod again.
4. If you can share specific tips on handling it successfully - such as cash reserve related questions, hardship status, income if higher, etc.
5. When they approve is there a negotiation going back and forth, whatever they say ?

Second loan related:

1. As my house not totally under water and is with 2nd lender - wondering is it worth defaulting and there is possiblity for settlement of lower amount ?
2. I have heard credit unions are tough and don't easily settle down. Wondering if defaulted for 4-6 months, then it is possobility to settle for less
3. Can 2nd mortgage foreclose while 1st doesn't ? What is the impact to house and what does it mean to me ? I thought only 1st can foreclose.

Really appreciate your inputs above questions where possible.

Thanks in advance
 

bigshan1

LoanSafe Member
#7
Thanks for the tips!. I would like to understand your experience bit in detail to give my best try at it, if you may clarify questions below.

To give you context here is my situation:

House purchased in 2006 for $700,000
Current value as per Zillow: $597, a month ago it was close $580,000, current value on Zillow reflects seasonal peak
1st laon WF: 550,000 (Payment behind 80 days)
2nd LOAN (Credit union in WA) : 60,000 (Payment interest only now) (Payment 1st month overdue)
Hardship reasons: Student loan payments begun recetnly, college debt obligations, Mortgage payment shot up during recent reset last dec, etc, as a result overall cashflow is -ve or close to 100%.

Goal: Reduce payment on 1st mortgage, 2nd reduce int rate and/or settle for some cash payment (ideal case). If nothing happens, walkaway/short sale.


Questions:
1. How many times you have applied for Loan mod in total before it got approved finally?
2. You said it was rejected multiple times, why it was rejected each time and how did you overcome each of them ? Little bit of detail would help here as I am stage of waiting for their answer right now.
3. Is there waiting time between the time they rejected a loan modify before you can reapply ? Is there criteria to be met to be considered for loan mod again.
4. If you can share specific tips on handling it successfully - such as cash reserve related questions, hardship status, income if higher, etc.
5. When they approve is there a negotiation going back and forth, whatever they say ?

Second loan related:

1. As my house not totally under water and is with 2nd lender - wondering is it worth defaulting and there is possiblity for settlement of lower amount ?
2. I have heard credit unions are tough and don't easily settle down. Wondering if defaulted for 4-6 months, then it is possobility to settle for less
3. Can 2nd mortgage foreclose while 1st doesn't ? What is the impact to house and what does it mean to me ? I thought only 1st can foreclose.

Really appreciate your inputs above questions where possible.

Thanks in advance
Okay...I'll try to answer to the best of my ability as my memory serves me. The following is only about my 1st.
Regarding question 1. I applied a total of 3 times for a loan mod and once for HARP. My first two attempts at a loan mod were denied. My first attempt was in 2009. This was a miserable experience. The communication was horrible on WF part and 6 months into the process I got a denial letter. There was NO reason for the denial and to this day I still don't know why. In early 2010 I attempted to HARP my 1st. I qualified, but due to the LTV, I need to cough up $7,000 of my own money. Needless to say, I didn't accept the offer. Fast forward to fall of 2011. I applied for the HAMP. Communication was much better on WF part, but I was ultimately denied. The reason for this denial was because I was current on my 1st mortgage. My HPS told me that "because you're current on your mortgage, you don't qualify." Reading the writing on the wall, I scaled way back on my overtime for three months. I stopped paying in December 2011, January/February 2012.

As far as cash reserves, we only had a few thousand dollars in the bank any given time. I'll tell you this; WF only knows who you bank with if you have a loan taken out or you tell them. Running a credit score does not reveal who you bank with...only who you have a loan through. Lets say you open another random account somewhere to store some money....WF won't know unless you tell them. I'm not saying I've done this, but my WF HPS told this to me over the phone. She didn't say to "hide money" but acknowledged they don't know about other accounts unless you have a loan or you tell them...hint hint. I never really had the problem of "too much money" to worry about that.

I re applied for HAMP late January 2012; maybe early February and was finally accepted at the end of June 2012. The process was relatively painless and communication was decent on WF part. Everything went smooth and now my HAMP is final. There is no time, per se, that you have to wait to reapply. The only thing WF cares about is that your numbers fit the HAMP formula....the one in which you qualify if you're paying over %31 of you income towards your 1st mortgage. Remember it's gross income....AND....if you have a job in which you make overtime, WF counts that. I know OT is never guaranteed, but WF doesn't care. If it reflects in your check, they will use it.

There was no negotiation with HAMP. WF has the final say with what rate you get.

As far as you second. I've also heard Credit Unions are tough because they don't have the roving capital like big banks and will fight harder. A second mortgage has the legal right to foreclose, but I'm not sure what a Credit Union would do knowing they would take a loss of around $30,000. If your house is worth $580,000 and second foreclosed, the first gets $550,000 of it. The remaining $30,000 goes to the second and loses out on the other $30,000. Tough call. This scenario would best be answered by Tom Eason or CAT....They're much more knowledgeable than me on this. My 2nd was fairly simple. My first and second were totally under water and then some. No risk of foreclosure and I knew it. It took one year, but my second was finally settled.

I'll ask you, are you wanting to keep the house? If you're reject for your HAMP, LISTEN to why it was rejected and see you if can adjust to eliminate that reason. I was told I was current and thus reject. Hence, I stopped paying and BAM! I qualified! I hope this helps a bit. Feel free to post anytime and I'll help out as much as I can.

Shane
 
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pbhome

LoanSafe Member
#8
Hi Shane

I have got the approval for Trial payments. The offer I have got is for 2900 which is 338 less than prior amount.

1) Are there options to re-negotiate this offer to bring down this payment (my rep told me either accept or mod is closed right there) ? I heard that under HAMP 2.0 banks can go to 25% of gross income..

2) what should i expect when loan is permanently modified - Payment to go down even further ? Do you mind sharing details on how does it changed in your case if at all between

3) Did bank decide on new 30 yr term (if they did in your case) at the time of permanent modification or at the beginning of trial payments?

If they do that, did that help to bring down the payment.

4) By the time loan is permanently modified does WF may request additional docs - ex. pay stub or bank stmts, etc ?

Thanks for your help in advance.
 

bigshan1

LoanSafe Member
#9
Hi Shane

I have got the approval for Trial payments. The offer I have got is for 2900 which is 338 less than prior amount.

1) Are there options to re-negotiate this offer to bring down this payment (my rep told me either accept or mod is closed right there) ? I heard that under HAMP 2.0 banks can go to 25% of gross income..

2) what should i expect when loan is permanently modified - Payment to go down even further ? Do you mind sharing details on how does it changed in your case if at all between

3) Did bank decide on new 30 yr term (if they did in your case) at the time of permanent modification or at the beginning of trial payments?

If they do that, did that help to bring down the payment.

4) By the time loan is permanently modified does WF may request additional docs - ex. pay stub or bank stmts, etc ?

Thanks for your help in advance.
1. I've heard you can re-negotiate, but thats risky. You essentially would have to go back into review/underwriting. I personally wouldn't roll the dice on that. Yes HAMP 2 CAN go to 25% of gross, but its not a garauntee...they still can stick with the %31 mark as in HAMP.

2.For me, I paid only three trial payments (April/May/June) and was called by my HPS (second week of June) to inform me that my trial period was complete and that my loan will go through 3 stages of "settlement." They told me the settlement stages are internal and it has to do with altering/permanently modifying the interest rate, late fee's, past due payments, drawing up paperwork, ect. After about 2 weeks, I called my HPS for status. They told me my HAMP loan mod was complete, permanent and I would be receiving loan docs from WF to sign and return in the near future. My payment stayed extactly the same. I was told by my HPS (prior to mod) that it would likely stay the same, but could go up or down....but it would only be by a few dollars if it did.

4. I had 25yrs left on my pre modified loan. WellsFargo extended my loan two years to 27yrs. I was informed about this detail when I received my final HAMP documents in the mail. I got those at the end of June after my trial period was complete. It should specify when the loan matures. My original loan was an IO for 10yrs then P/I for the remaining 20yrs. So with the HAMP mod which included P/I, prop taxes and insurance, my payment went down a bit over $300 a month. Not to impressive on face value, but in five years was my concern. My IO loan was set to adjustin 2017 to P/I.....so in five years from now, the HAMP will save me an additional $800 per month on top of the $300. Good deal for me.

4. I sent in nothing after I went into underwriting/review. Way before my trial period began.....not a thing. They never asked for it and I wasn't about to offer. In 2011, the rules for HAMP changed a bit. The gov't required banks to pre qualify people with proof (hardship, paystubs, bank statements ect) instead of the previous method of doing it over the phone. This way (theoretically) once you're prequalifed, there's no need to send in more docs.....you should be done send docs in at this point. If they continue to ask during your trial period, they may have you in an in house mod. But if your paperwork says HAMP....your done sending in docs.

Hops this helps
Shane
 
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pbhome

LoanSafe Member
#10
Hi Shane

Thanks for the clarification. I totally understand the risk of going back to underwriter to review the approval to reduce it bit further. Thinking over last week, I was leaning towards accepting current approval (still I am) and just for sake of asking, I requested my HPS today to see the amount can be reduced further down by $200 (from current approval - 2900, to 2700) for first 5 years especially. Initialy she wasn't commital on reviewing the request and on the outcome of such review (even now not guaranteed) from underwriter. She requested me to send a letter to putting down the reason why I am asking for this review (I have another student loan for which payment starting in Oct) and she will take that to underwriter. She doesn't normally do this and going out of norm.
Here is the catch, and it is my mostly my mistake. Meanwhile yesterday I scheduled a bill pay for my first trial payment (to be paid on 8/27) with my bank thinking that my HPS unlikely to agree for a review; check is already out on the mail today.

When WF receives the check I wonder they may treat this as my acceptance and will not consider my review request ? Should I request stop check payment - but am afraid that is not a good sign to begin with 1st trial payment :)

May I disclose this to HPS and see what she can do ?

Appreciate any thoughts on how best I can handle this. I haven't sent the letter yet, planning to do tonight or tomorrow.
 

bigshan1

LoanSafe Member
#11
Hi Shane

Thanks for the clarification. I totally understand the risk of going back to underwriter to review the approval to reduce it bit further. Thinking over last week, I was leaning towards accepting current approval (still I am) and just for sake of asking, I requested my HPS today to see the amount can be reduced further down by $200 (from current approval - 2900, to 2700) for first 5 years especially. Initialy she wasn't commital on reviewing the request and on the outcome of such review (even now not guaranteed) from underwriter. She requested me to send a letter to putting down the reason why I am asking for this review (I have another student loan for which payment starting in Oct) and she will take that to underwriter. She doesn't normally do this and going out of norm.
Here is the catch, and it is my mostly my mistake. Meanwhile yesterday I scheduled a bill pay for my first trial payment (to be paid on 8/27) with my bank thinking that my HPS unlikely to agree for a review; check is already out on the mail today.

When WF receives the check I wonder they may treat this as my acceptance and will not consider my review request ? Should I request stop check payment - but am afraid that is not a good sign to begin with 1st trial payment :)

May I disclose this to HPS and see what she can do ?

Appreciate any thoughts on how best I can handle this. I haven't sent the letter yet, planning to do tonight or tomorrow.
I know for a fact that by sending in your payment, WF considers that you've agreed to the trial plan/HAMP. I would highly recommend you NOT cancel payment. You might totally implode your HAMP and be sent back to square one if you do so. I would however draft up your letter and send it to your HPS for the underwriter review regarding your upcoming student loan payment. The worst that can happen is they say no and you remain in your HAMP trial. Or they accept the latest hardship and you get it....but, you send them a check, then stop payment and God forbid they try and cash it, your HAMP could be toast....just my opinion. Also, I may be just paranoid with our mail system, but I paid all my trial payment using "check by phone." Bascially you call your HPS and tell you want to pay "check by phone." She will ask for your bank info from where your going to pay and bam! No risk of lost mail, third party screw ups and its very secure and no exuses on WF part to kick you out of your trial. You'll have to do it each time for each payment....again, just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

-Shane
 

pbhome

LoanSafe Member
#12
My HPS told me that they should receive the payment within 30days of due date , to NOT to affect the approval package. My first payment is due on Sept 1st, so technically I have until Sept 29th to complete the payment. Howevever I believe you are saying as what I am thinking with regard to doing a STOP payment - which may send a wrong signal to WF ?

I wonder this scheduling of payment may hinder chances of my request for adjustment :) I am thinking I should let my HPS know that I have a scheduled a payment and that I don't want them to consider as "acceptance" of current trial payment. what do you think ?

I need to think through clearly how I word the letter here...
 

bigshan1

LoanSafe Member
#13
My HPS told me that they should receive the payment within 30days of due date , to NOT to affect the approval package. My first payment is due on Sept 1st, so technically I have until Sept 29th to complete the payment. Howevever I believe you are saying as what I am thinking with regard to doing a STOP payment - which may send a wrong signal to WF ?

I wonder this scheduling of payment may hinder chances of my request for adjustment :) I am thinking I should let my HPS know that I have a scheduled a payment and that I don't want them to consider as "acceptance" of current trial payment. what do you think ?

I need to think through clearly how I word the letter here...
Hello, yes, you do have the whole month to pay. I personally still paid on the 1st just because I don't trust WF. Remember, though you have the full month, as soon as they get the check, they will try and cash it. Putting a stop payment might send the wrong signal. My whole point is that HAMP is not an easy thing thing get. Don't role the dice and give them any excuse to kick you out of the trial. If I was in your position, I'd let this payment go through; still draft up your upcoming hardship and fax that in to your HPS. I don't see any reason why the payment couldn't be adjusted while in your trial. The trial is far from permanent so there is time for adjustment if the underwriter accepts your lastest hardship.

Good Luck
Shane
 

pbhome

LoanSafe Member
#14
Shane

Thanks for your suggestion.. I went ahead with paying on time and also attempted to push for further reduction. But as expected WF denied my 2nd request on day 1 (knowing that I have made the 1st payment :) ) .

Anyhow, I have just made my 2nd payment and I do think still what I have got originally is still better than losing home or having to pay too much...

Recently (after 1st payment was made) I received a notice called "Pre-foreclosure notice" (aka acceleration letter). Ideally I shouldn' t receive this ? HAMP trial approval letter clearly stated that foreclosure activity will be stalled but why I got this letter...

I called WF today,they told me that once Trial period completes (all payments if made on time) - my loan will be permanently modeified at that time status will be updated to current. Until then I will continue to receive such notices...

Does this mean they proceed with foreclosure process permanent modification is complete?
But somehow this goes against their statement in HAMP approval letter that foreclosure activity will be stopped.

I wonder something else may be cooking in the backburner ...I sincerely hope not...

How did this happened to you ?
 

bigshan1

LoanSafe Member
#15
Shane

Thanks for your suggestion.. I went ahead with paying on time and also attempted to push for further reduction. But as expected WF denied my 2nd request on day 1 (knowing that I have made the 1st payment :) ) .

Anyhow, I have just made my 2nd payment and I do think still what I have got originally is still better than losing home or having to pay too much...

Recently (after 1st payment was made) I received a notice called "Pre-foreclosure notice" (aka acceleration letter). Ideally I shouldn' t receive this ? HAMP trial approval letter clearly stated that foreclosure activity will be stalled but why I got this letter...

I called WF today,they told me that once Trial period completes (all payments if made on time) - my loan will be permanently modeified at that time status will be updated to current. Until then I will continue to receive such notices...

Does this mean they proceed with foreclosure process permanent modification is complete?
But somehow this goes against their statement in HAMP approval letter that foreclosure activity will be stopped.

I wonder something else may be cooking in the backburner ...I sincerely hope not...

How did this happened to you ?

Hello pbhome!

You have nothing to worry about. I also recieved a pre-forclosure/acceleration letter even before I started my HAMP trial. As the new HAMP rules state, WF cannot foreclose on you while you're still in the midst (final steps) of a HAMP mod. Those letters are standard and sent to anyone who's late on thier mortgage. Just think of it as a scare letter. Once your done with your third trial payment, you're loan will go through three "settlement stages." This takes about 2-4 weeks. This is where they permanently modify your loan terms and finalize it. At that point, you'll bee seen as "current." Nothing to worry about....just file the letter away.

Shane
 

LOST&FOUND

LoanSafe Member
#16
Dear Shane I am very happy for your results. Now I have been denied twice with Asc/wells Fargo. I has a mod approved on 2009 and because the economy I couldn't pay it anymore. Now I am behind for 1 1/2 year and I can't get any help. Asc says the investor won't give a second modification- they don't want to capitalized my loan any more- please either on of the seniors could guid me please. I will so much appreciate it-
 
#17
Dear Shane I am very happy for your results. Now I have been denied twice with Asc/wells Fargo. I has a mod approved on 2009 and because the economy I couldn't pay it anymore. Now I am behind for 1 1/2 year and I can't get any help. Asc says the investor won't give a second modification- they don't want to capitalized my loan any more- please either on of the seniors could guid me please. I will so much appreciate it-

Were you able to contact Michael from the Loan Mod Help Center? He can make a call to WF with you on the line and also help you with the income calculations. You had posted that you thought that was what was causing the issue.
 

bigshan1

LoanSafe Member
#18
Dear Shane I am very happy for your results. Now I have been denied twice with Asc/wells Fargo. I has a mod approved on 2009 and because the economy I couldn't pay it anymore. Now I am behind for 1 1/2 year and I can't get any help. Asc says the investor won't give a second modification- they don't want to capitalized my loan any more- please either on of the seniors could guid me please. I will so much appreciate it-
Lost&Found,
Being that you've already had one MOD and stopped paying on it, I totally agree with CAT and would contact the Loanmodhelpcenter. They are the true experts beyond my knowledge. I would hate give you an assumption and be wrong.

Best of Luck
Shane
 

Lovey

LoanSafe Member
#19
Hello pbhome....yes, huge relief is exactly what it is. Of course I'll share my numbers....

I bought my house in Southern Cailfornia in 2007 for $569,000. My first and second were with WF. My first was an Interest Only for $417,000 and my second (home equity loan) was $152,000. After being denied several loan mods, I stopped paying my second in March 2011. At this point my house was worth around $370,000; thus I stopped paying. Around this time my LTV was about %151. I started the HAMP process in Feburary 2012 and finalized everything in this month. My current LTV is %111. Amazing what erasing a 2nd can do! ......

Shane
You stopped paying your 2nd in March 2011. How long after you stopped paying, did you settle? What percent did you settle at?
My trial payments start Dec 1st. I want to settle the 2nd but think I should wait until I pay my last trial payment Feb 2013 and get my permanent mod papers.
 

bigshan1

LoanSafe Member
#20
You stopped paying your 2nd in March 2011. How long after you stopped paying, did you settle? What percent did you settle at?
My trial payments start Dec 1st. I want to settle the 2nd but think I should wait until I pay my last trial payment Feb 2013 and get my permanent mod papers.

Really Short Version: Stopped paying in March 2011. Settled at 17% in March 2012. Recieved the lien in the mail in June 2012. Finish the mod on your first prior to settling second.

-Shane