Validation of Debt Question

bostonlass

LoanSafe Member
May 13, 2009
68
0
6
Hi,

Providian owned my credit card debt, they sent it to Cavalry for collection and now a different agency is trying to collect the debt.

I wrote to them asking for validation of the debt and they sent me Providian statements going back to 2010 with a large balance and interest. There were no transactions with vendors to show where the large balance came from, just interest transactions and some payments.

Does this complete their obligation to validate the debt or do they have to show where the original large balance came from, i.e. purchases of goods, etc?

Thanks!
 

StuckInSeattle

LoanSafe Member
Aug 2, 2012
169
0
16
48
Hi bostonlass,

I believe any communication in response to your debt validation letter is considered 'initial communication' and can be considered a validaton of debt. Below is what is required by the company in response...

1. Amount of the debt
2. The name of the creditor
3. The assumption that the debt will be valid unless you dispute it within 30 days
4. Notification that you can request verification of the debt within 30 days
5. Notification that you can request the name and address of the original creditor within 30 days


I just sent out a debt validation letter on a timeshare that was discharged in a chapter 7, haven't heard anything back on that yet.
 

bostonlass

LoanSafe Member
May 13, 2009
68
0
6
Thank you. Doesn't seem right though that they can just give me a blanket number and not support it with purchases.
 

StuckInSeattle

LoanSafe Member
Aug 2, 2012
169
0
16
48
also, don't waste any time do send off another debt validation letter. Here is a sample one you can use

To Whom It May Concern:

I requested a validation of the debt your company
claims I owe on xx/xx/xxxx. In response, I received a letter noting the amount
that I allegedly owe and a blank credit card agreement. Consumers have the right
to request a validation of debt to ensure that the company collecting the debt
has not made an error. Sending me notice of the amount I supposedly owe does not
prove that I owe the debt, it merely proves that your company seeks to collect
the specified amount. In addition, the blank credit card agreement merely
illustrates the rules and regulations applicants must agree to when applying for
that card. It does not contain my signature and, as such, has nothing to do with
me.

Please note I am not requesting a verification of your records or a
verification of the credit card company's current policy. I am requesting proof
that I incurred this debt, how much was incurred and that you have the right to
collect it. Proof of my liability is my legal right under the Fair Debt
Collection Practices Act.

Sincerely,
John/Jane Doe
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,161
146
63
Hi guys,

Something seems off about this information. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but there is not enough information presented at this point to really be able to answer the OP's question. I also think that you might be confusing initial communication with validation, they are not the same thing.

FDCPA permits that you have 30 days from receiving initial communication in which to request validation. OP did not specify how long it has been since that first communication came, or how it came. If they contacted you 8 months ago, and then you sent a DV letter last month, do not expect to get much of a response because legally they will not need to provide one....unless you lived in Texas.

As for the response you did get, the problem is that "validation" is not very well defined within the FDCPA. The bar they need to meet in order to satisfy a validation request is so low you could trip over it. The sample DV letter above is good, but will likely not lead to receiving validation because the bare-bones response you already got actually meets the law's requirements. There is not now, nor was there ever, a requirement for them to send, for example, a signed copy of a credit card agreement. And the fact that the "statements" they sent do not include transactions with vendors is not an issue with validation--if you were being sued, you could point to that in court and it would probably have more effect there. It's still good to request those things--I have. I have yet to receive them in response to a DV request, but I still ask for them.

OP, if you identify the company you are dealing with, others here might be able to shed more light on what to do based upon how that company does things.
 

StuckInSeattle

LoanSafe Member
Aug 2, 2012
169
0
16
48
you're correct, we don't know if Bostonlass is responding within the 30 days required and that needs to be taken into account. The letter is really fairly generic and, as you said, won't return much from the collections agency. But, it does require some kind of answer from the collection agency, whether it be an initial communication or actual debt validation. From what I understand the 'initial communication' is all that is required by a collections agency, they don't have to verify the debt, but if they don't verify they can't continue to collect.... is that your understanding as well?

I've been doing some research on this and there really is no clear cut answer. I would love to hear from somebody that has not only sent a debt validation letter but has also gone through the run around of receiveing "debt validation" from a company and if they truly believed they didn't owe the debt where they went from there.

Thanks for your response on this kraftykrab
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,161
146
63
Sad, really, because there needs to be a clear-cut definition of validation. I agree that they are only required to validate if they intend to keep trying to collect, but that basically means nothing today because so many of them ignore the law anyways. They know that out of every 100 consumers that they contact, maybe 5 might try to assert their rights....and then, maybe 2 of those might actually take legal action. Thats just a guess, but it shows the problem. CAs will keep ignoring the laws as long as the consumers do not hold them accountable with those laws.

The letter you wrote is actually not a bad follow-up at all. I prefer to let them know that I understand my rights under the law and will hold them thus accountable....with the worsening economy over the last several years, this has become a disaster thanks to having no clearly defined requirements. You could also mention the FCC opinion letter from their staff attorneys regarding validation, but since the letter itself is not binding, it's really only a suggestion and CAs are not required to abide by it.
 

acesfull

LoanSafe Member
Nov 5, 2008
2,216
110
63
NEW JERSEY
Hi Folks

I always simply send the CA a cease and desist( C&D) notice. Also inform them that any communication should be via USPS only and that you are forwarding their company name to your states attorney general's office and the AG office in their state.
They will either pursue legal remedies or leave you alone.. In my humble experience 99 percent fold and go away and sell the debt again.
The other 1 percent will file a complaint, then you answer the complain and have the case dismissed. This works for me. Your results may vary.
Thank you to everyone in advance.
Best regards.

NJ-44 Months
Acesfull/HWP
 

loleary

LoanSafe Member
Apr 25, 2013
23
1
3
When is the best time to send a cease and desist letter? Should it be sent ony to JDB's or can it be sent to collection agencies assisting the Original creditor?
 

acesfull

LoanSafe Member
Nov 5, 2008
2,216
110
63
NEW JERSEY
When is the best time to send a cease and desist letter? Should it be sent ony to JDB's or can it be sent to collection agencies assisting the Original creditor?
Hi

C&D should only be sent to JDB or assigned CA...

Best regards.

NJ- 44 Months
Acesfull/HWP