Success in Settling 2nds-cont'd

C

Can’tsleep

Guest
Was just reading this thread and decided to go to my county recorders website and see if anything was going on. I stopped paying my HELOC with Chase in 2011 after Chapter 7 BR. I tried to negotiate with them with the standard offers used successfully here but was only robo called for my trouble so I had to send them a cease and desist.
To my extreme surprise, today, I found that over a year ago, Chase released the lien on my house. There are no new liens. I did not receive any notice from them at all. So happy. Thanks for this forum and all who have responded and attempted to help. Best of luck to everyone. And check your records office. You might get a huge surprise like I did. :D
How do you check your records office? Or what am I looking for?
 
C

Chasegame2019

Guest
Every county is a little different but usually you'll need your home's parcel number (APN) and /or the address. If you have a property tax statement, all the info is on it. Some county recorders allow an online search, others require you to go to their offices in person. You're looking for the 'recorded liens', and in this case, 'release of lien', 'full reconveyance of lien', etc.
 
C

Chasegame2019

Guest
Since 're-visiting' this website after many years, I have been seeing numerous threads on attempts to settle seconds. (Because this website still hasn't been fixed, I have to comment here.). It seems like 'Tom Eason's Strategy for Settling 2nds' has gotten lost in the archives?. The reason I say that is I see posts here where there is a lot of communication and repeated settlement attempts by borrowers with the lenders. In my experience, this is a huge mistake. Maybe Tom's 'Strategy' can be refreshed somehow here? Thoughts? suggestions?
 

littlefishinapond

LoanSafe Member
May 16, 2016
6
1
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We stopped paying our second in 2016. It was an interest only loan and had a balloon payment at the end of the 10 yrs. The lien is under BOA but it was charged off in 2017 and sold to a collection agency. Well, two collection agencies as we have received letters from two different ones. We have tried to settle but they want financials. Obviously we have declined and the conversations never go anywhere after that. The last conversation we had with one of them was to tell them not to contact us unless they want to settle and that if they are so interested in the house they can come and get it. We don't care about the house at all but paying the first is way cheaper than any decent rental in the area. We had to do some repairs in the last few years like the AC and water heater, other than that the house needs other cosmetic things fixed but we don't want to put any money on it unless it is a necessity.

We would like to settle for no more than 10-15% as we are still under water considering some of the things that need to be fixed ( the balance is 37k). I'm confused on how to proceed because there are two different collection agencies contacting us regarding this loan both claiming they have been engaged by BOA to collect on it. How do you think we should proceed? Contact BOA directly? Continue to wait? We would like to eventually move but the cheap payment (which the first is an adjustable interest rate too, ugh) is keeping us here.

Any advise would be greatly appreciate it!
 

Jzone

LoanSafe Member
Jun 20, 2017
204
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We stopped paying our second in 2016. It was an interest only loan and had a balloon payment at the end of the 10 yrs. The lien is under BOA but it was charged off in 2017 and sold to a collection agency. Well, two collection agencies as we have received letters from two different ones. We have tried to settle but they want financials. Obviously we have declined and the conversations never go anywhere after that. The last conversation we had with one of them was to tell them not to contact us unless they want to settle and that if they are so interested in the house they can come and get it. We don't care about the house at all but paying the first is way cheaper than any decent rental in the area. We had to do some repairs in the last few years like the AC and water heater, other than that the house needs other cosmetic things fixed but we don't want to put any money on it unless it is a necessity.

We would like to settle for no more than 10-15% as we are still under water considering some of the things that need to be fixed ( the balance is 37k). I'm confused on how to proceed because there are two different collection agencies contacting us regarding this loan both claiming they have been engaged by BOA to collect on it. How do you think we should proceed? Contact BOA directly? Continue to wait? We would like to eventually move but the cheap payment (which the first is an adjustable interest rate too, ugh) is keeping us here.

Any advise would be greatly appreciate it!
Stop paying is a lot differant than discharged in bankruptcy. Bankruptcy allows you to walk away and not be responsible for the debt. Simply not paying allows debt collectors to come after you for years to collect the debt. Having your debt "charged off" simply means its not on BOA's books but is still a collectable debt. Debts discharged in bankruptcy are not collectable, though a mortgage lien can be assigned to a debt collector (which is what happened to me)

Check with your county register of deeds to make sure BOA still holds the lien. If they do, deal directly with them as they are the only ones who can release it.

You really have two issues to take care of. Settle the debt and get the lien released. If you settle the debt with a debt collector, you may not get the lien released. If you get the lien released, you may still owe the debt.

If you can, try to work with BOA and get the debt settled and lien released through them.
 
C

Chasegame2019

Guest
I agree with Jzone, although I'm pretty sure any settlement would have to be approved by BOA beforehand. Again, though, do the math yourself to see if you are even in a negotiating position.

Basically, lenders look at your current home value (see Zillow or Realtor.com), minus $30-50k in fix up costs they assume will be needed to 'make ready' for selling it, minus realtor commissions and closing costs they'll have to pay (6%+), minus your 1st TD. If this number is negative, you're in a good position to get a settlement. If this number is positive (your equity) they're more likely to wait you out.
 

Erik Sandstrom

Mortgage Expert - Call 1-619-379-8999
Staff member
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www.loansreduced.com
I'm so glad you've been able to post, nonetheless as a guest - Moe is working on the forum to hopefully fix the bugs right now with new members trying to join.
 

littlefishinapond

LoanSafe Member
May 16, 2016
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I agree with Jzone, although I'm pretty sure any settlement would have to be approved by BOA beforehand. Again, though, do the math yourself to see if you are even in a negotiating position.

Basically, lenders look at your current home value (see Zillow or Realtor.com), minus $30-50k in fix up costs they assume will be needed to 'make ready' for selling it, minus realtor commissions and closing costs they'll have to pay (6%+), minus your 1st TD. If this number is negative, you're in a good position to get a settlement. If this number is positive (your equity) they're more likely to wait you out.
Thank you both for your replies.
I am aware that the debt still remains even after the charge off. We had two different collection agencies trying to collect from us for the same debt and that is why I want to know if it would be better to negotiate with BOA. They all want financials and say they have been engaged by BOA.
As far as Inknow BOA still holds the lien. I’m not sure if we want to file for bankruptcy or even qualify for it as our only debt is the mortgage and some minor medical bills that we pay monthly.

I believe we are still somewhat underwater. The first mortgage is around 127k, the second was 37K and there are repairs that need to be made. Last month a house in the same row as ours in better condition sold for 187.5k ( they changed all the windows and carpets). Their asking price was 195k. Zillow has ours valued at 190 but no way that is accurate.

We don’t care for the house but I would much rather stay here than pay the crazy rents in our area.
 
C

Chasegame2019

Guest
Thank you both for your replies.
I am aware that the debt still remains even after the charge off. We had two different collection agencies trying to collect from us for the same debt and that is why I want to know if it would be better to negotiate with BOA. They all want financials and say they have been engaged by BOA.
As far as Inknow BOA still holds the lien. I’m not sure if we want to file for bankruptcy or even qualify for it as our only debt is the mortgage and some minor medical bills that we pay monthly.

I believe we are still somewhat underwater. The first mortgage is around 127k, the second was 37K and there are repairs that need to be made. Last month a house in the same row as ours in better condition sold for 187.5k ( they changed all the windows and carpets). Their asking price was 195k. Zillow has ours valued at 190 but no way that is accurate.

We don’t care for the house but I would much rather stay here than pay the crazy rents in our area.
So I would do the math as follows-

Zillow value $190,000
1st mortgage -$127,000
2nd mortgage -$ 37,000
Repairs -$ 30,000 ($30-$50k is supposed to be what lenders assume on the avg home)
Lender cost to sell -$ 12,000 ( probably low as lenders will normally pay realtors 6% alone)
Equity - $16,000

So, in my opinion, there is no apparent monetary advantage for the 2nd lien holder to foreclose to collect their $37,000 because they would have to pay off the first($127,000) plus do the repairs ($30,000), then pay the selling costs ($12,000) leaving them $16,000 short. No lender will take that risk in my opinion.

I would definitely visit the county recorder to see who actually owns the second lien. When you do the math above, it allows you to be confident that the 2nd lien value is basically worthless right now.
 

bnleon

LoanSafe Member
Sep 12, 2009
23
0
1
My second First Horizon Home Corporation was charged off 2010. When I look at the online county records only the original second mortgage is there. Can I then assume it has not be released? I can't find my first mortgage records on there or the deed. I was looking to refinance my first mortgage bc I ended up with a balloon modification in desperate times. Any advice will be gladly appreciated.
 

Jzone

LoanSafe Member
Jun 20, 2017
204
28
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My second First Horizon Home Corporation was charged off 2010. When I look at the online county records only the original second mortgage is there. Can I then assume it has not be released? I can't find my first mortgage records on there or the deed. I was looking to refinance my first mortgage bc I ended up with a balloon modification in desperate times. Any advice will be gladly appreciated.
Please clear this up a bit before I can comment.
Your mortgage with First Horizon was a 2nd mortgage that was charged off?
Who was the "original second mortgage" with?
Who was the 1st mortgage with?
Or do you mean you only had one mortgage, not a 1st and a 2nd at the same time?

Mortgages and liens are two different things, but they are tied together. If you simply stopped paying your mortgage, your account would be "charged off". But the lien remains and you are still responsible for the debt.

If you filed bankruptcy, only the lien remains and you are not responsible for the debt any longer.
 

antomax03

LoanSafe Member
Oct 18, 2016
12
0
1
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Wow, wish I had Chase as my second mortgage servicer. I stopped paying on my second 10 years ago with SLS (Wells fargo investor). They just denied my settlement offer yesterday to release the lien and threatned that they are prepared to foreclose.
The second mortgage no longer on my credit reports. I checked the county's records online and did not find any lien releases for the second mortgage. The only record found was the original mortgage note in 2006.
Any advise please?
 
S

Smile Back

Guest
You are just one of millions who are in similar situation. If you want to empower yourself as a homeowner,, you have a lot of options.

1) First, take care of your finances and make sure you have Reserve funds in this Pandemic and if banks will force their powers again. We need to be prepared this time unlike 2008. They said Cash is king during crisis. That’s why Fed is doing all this cash infusions to ppl. Stay safe too and take care of your employment and family. It matters you to have mental toughness. Preventive is better than cure. Just like this COVID, do everything to avoid & not get infected. It’s real. It happened to me, but I survived it. Now we got 3 M from few ppl from 4 months ago. It’s REAL. Learn about this, too.

2). Second, I think you can write to your congressmen or senators, about Your struggles as homeowners, and now your anxieties of possibly losing your home ( again) after 2008 GR / Bailouts. They can alleviate this economic financial disaster by avoiding millions of foreclosure soon to happen ( after moratorium is lifted )

by creating some kind of an amendment to Care’s Act to take priority (this time) struggling homeowners and by telling the banks to keep their part of the bargain to “complete modifications “

banks agreed to help homeowners when they signed NSMF w/ DOJ in 2012 (as restitutions to their violations using $$$ Billions Funds they got fined. It’s a long shot but these Congress & Senate do read their emails. I write Sen Dianne Feinstein ( just to try). Guess what ? I got a call and an email back. Hope this helps. It’s gonna be tough. Let’s all be sstrong. Sure, there’s rainbow at end of the rain
.
 

romansh

LoanSafe Member
Jul 17, 2020
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cookiemom

LoanSafe Member
May 24, 2019
10
0
1
I am keeping my fingers crossed then I receive the same...

I had intentions of starting to offer 2/3% to RTR for my second. With everything going on in the world these days, it has been the last thing on my mind and I was just playing the waiting game. Recently, however I received a letter from RTR providing me with 3 payments options before taking action on lien. 1. Temp Payments 2. Resolution 3. Short Sale.

So, should I still proceed with sending a settlement offer, which sounds like is their #2 option? Would of felt better if I was initiating the conversation with them was going to attempt 2% settlement, I wonder if they were alerted that I inquired about a refi and that is what promoted this letter or maybe after reading your story, this is the last dash for them to try to recoop?

I have provided my original post below...
*****************************

https://www.loansafe.org/forum/threads/2nd-mortgage.92016/

Home purchased in 2006 with an 80/20 split mortgage with Countrywide for $211,000.
  • 1st $168,800
  • 2nd $42,200
BK7 discharged in 2008, with intent to keep home and reaffirm loan.
  • 1st mortgage was approved for loan modification with Bank of America fees taxes and interest @ $187,406.24 with interest starting at 2% the day the house went up for state sale. This loan has fully reached interest maturity at the 4.25% rate. Current payoff is around $143,400. My Loan mod states this loan at the original cost of $168,800 and note signed on same date, although the city tax shows the house technically sold again to me in 2008 when Modification went through. Currently home value according to Zillow is $190,000
  • 2nd mortgage was never affirmed and apparently sold to Real Time Solutions.
    • My issue is with this loan, now with Real Time Solutions that I have NEVER paid on per the advice of BK7 Attorney. Obviously, looking back it was my negligence, I was young when filling for the BK and renegotiating the loan modification, I just wanted to keep my home. I guess I did not understand the full terms of what was going on and that this loan was included in the BK7 but the lender lien would remain on home. Years back, I remember Real Time Solutions calling me to make a settlement offer, and I was skeptical since I never heard of them and could not find them online. At the time there were so many calls/letters etc. I was receiving form creditors I wanted them to mail me everything in writing. I was not just going to give some company I never heard of $9,000. I only received a statement, which did not justify anything for me to understand their hold on the home and I was sure that this was in my BK 7 and discarded. I only receive something in the mail from them (statement) about every 6 months. Recently, I received yet another statement from them, upon fully reviewing, I noticed on the back they posted the pay-off amount of $92,124. It has been collecting interest. I had a title company do a search and I guess there are 2 liens on the home.
 
C

Chasegame two

Guest
I am keeping my fingers crossed then I receive the same...

I had intentions of starting to offer 2/3% to RTR for my second. With everything going on in the world these days, it has been the last thing on my mind and I was just playing the waiting game. Recently, however I received a letter from RTR providing me with 3 payments options before taking action on lien. 1. Temp Payments 2. Resolution 3. Short Sale.

So, should I still proceed with sending a settlement offer, which sounds like is their #2 option? Would of felt better if I was initiating the conversation with them was going to attempt 2% settlement, I wonder if they were alerted that I inquired about a refi and that is what promoted this letter or maybe after reading your story, this is the last dash for them to try to recoop?

I have provided my original post below...
*****************************

https://www.loansafe.org/forum/threads/2nd-mortgage.92016/

Home purchased in 2006 with an 80/20 split mortgage with Countrywide for $211,000.
  • 1st $168,800
  • 2nd $42,200
BK7 discharged in 2008, with intent to keep home and reaffirm loan.
  • 1st mortgage was approved for loan modification with Bank of America fees taxes and interest @ $187,406.24 with interest starting at 2% the day the house went up for state sale. This loan has fully reached interest maturity at the 4.25% rate. Current payoff is around $143,400. My Loan mod states this loan at the original cost of $168,800 and note signed on same date, although the city tax shows the house technically sold again to me in 2008 when Modification went through. Currently home value according to Zillow is $190,000
  • 2nd mortgage was never affirmed and apparently sold to Real Time Solutions.
    • My issue is with this loan, now with Real Time Solutions that I have NEVER paid on per the advice of BK7 Attorney. Obviously, looking back it was my negligence, I was young when filling for the BK and renegotiating the loan modification, I just wanted to keep my home. I guess I did not understand the full terms of what was going on and that this loan was included in the BK7 but the lender lien would remain on home. Years back, I remember Real Time Solutions calling me to make a settlement offer, and I was skeptical since I never heard of them and could not find them online. At the time there were so many calls/letters etc. I was receiving form creditors I wanted them to mail me everything in writing. I was not just going to give some company I never heard of $9,000. I only received a statement, which did not justify anything for me to understand their hold on the home and I was sure that this was in my BK 7 and discarded. I only receive something in the mail from them (statement) about every 6 months. Recently, I received yet another statement from them, upon fully reviewing, I noticed on the back they posted the pay-off amount of $92,124. It has been collecting interest. I had a title company do a search and I guess there are 2 liens on the home.
I would suggest scrolling up a bit on this thread to my Aug 21, 2019 post. Then, insert your own numbers in place of those in that post. (this is similar to Tom Eason's Strategy herein). Doing some quick math in my head says your 2nd with RTR is WAY underwater and they have zero incentive to foreclose and probably won't. To me, that letter from them with 'options' is just a Hail Mary.

I would send them a certified letter and state 'on day/month/year' you offered me $9000 to settle this as payment in full. (the technique here is to try to memorialize in writing that offer of $9k). Then say you can't come up with $9k but can offer $x for a full release. Ask that they respond in writing.
 
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S

Smile Back

Guest
Pardon me, Chase . That “settling” 10 cents - like $9k from $92k balance may no longer work now. Banks check Zillow and voila - the current market value will show. Now, we need to be in offensive. .

1) As some of long contributors here, we need to question validity or accuracy of their demand. One approach is to ask for QWR per MT or OHM Requested 4 mos ago. Up to now no response.

2) KEEP and SAVE your money in liquid funds. . We’re in Pandemic. All foreclosures are suspended till Aug. or Sept. Read Bagels, & other forum and Learn. Watch out for next stimulus—. Heroes Act. 2020 Assistance for Homeowners. .

3). Be ready for your documents just in case you need it for class action lawsuit or just be ready. It will be tough ride but you’re NOT ALONE. This is what I think. Maybe those who went thru this w/ 2nd w/ RTR last year or so, can share? Thanks.
 
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C

Chasegame two

Guest
Banks check Zillow and voila - the current market value will show. Now, we need to be in offensive. .

According to cookiemom the current value of the home is $190,000. So, again, do the math. The second is underwater based upon 'the strategy'.

Will her settlement attempt at pennies on the dollar work? Maybe, maybe not.

Does she lose anything in trying, other than an hour or so writing and mailing the offer? Nope.

Why not try to settle and also join whatever 'movement' or class action lawsuit that might be created too? Most people can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Don't forget that RTR , and others like them, many times receive financial gain for settling these delinquent 2nds. Some of these dead 2nds are actually purchased from the original lenders for a couple pennies on the dollar. So, if the RTR's of the world can settle for three or four pennies on the dollar- percentage wise they're making a nice return on investment.
 
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