Sold Out Junior Loans

MyGirl922

LoanSafe Member
Mar 29, 2009
16
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I say take it & get on with life. Wonder how they came up with such an odd number. Though I might would consider doing a counter with the explanation being I don't have that much money.
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I did it!!! I decided on a whim to counter their counter offer and after going back and forth for a few minutes, my counter offer at $3250 on a $38,517 loan is now settled. They will send me an email to confirm their acceptance of my counter-offer and the terms of the settlement (to say Paid in Full) and then I will wire transfer over the money. I am beyond excited about this and couldn't have done it without this message board's help!!
 
Likes: pamzam

pamzam

LoanSafe Member
Mar 29, 2010
37
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Congrats MyGirl922!!!!

Hello Everyone...in need of some advice.
1st Mort with Wells Fargo, current, owe $134,400
2nd Mort with Ditch, stopped paying in July 2011, I think I owe around 65k (I'm not sure as my account is closed and the Principal Balance of what IS shown on my act online is 60,260.
Home is worth about 200k.
BK Chapter 7 filed 8 yrs ago, did not reaffirm the first but DID affirm the 2nd...

My father is buying us (my family and I) a house outright, closing is in a few weeks. We will be paying him back.

So, needless to say, we would like to get out of this house. I spoke with a short sale attorney who said we could go that route. However, we'd need to have a hardship (could be being late on a payment or two or three, or job loss, divorce, etc). We don't necessarily HAVE a hardship other than taxes have gone up, under estimated taxes for escrow have gone up every year making our payments go up, but by the time we pay our $1600 mortgage, there isn't much left over to repair things around the house (cracks everywhere - needs to have drywall repaired and repainted, for example), nor is there much left over every month to just LIVE. We've had to dip into our savings just to pay bills and/or get groceries. We usually receive about $5000 in income taxes every year, and it's usually gone within a few months because we've had to dig into it.

Anyway, so we were thinking of refiling CH 7 again - that would release us from owing the 1st and 2nd (if we didn't reaffirm both), but not the lien and I'm reading that in order for them to release the lien, they'd have to be paid!! I'm terrified they could come after us (garnish wages). Question: in the filing of the Ch 7, can you make a 'statement' that they have to let the lien go when the BK is discharged?

Our other option would be to short sale. A realtor told us we could possibly sell for $200k (or less - we live in a cookie cutter community, and a house just like ours, only with NICE stuff and NEW stuff (windows, granite counters, new water heater, etc), just sold for $203 (after starting at $212k). Our house isn't as nice (again with the peeling paint and badly needed paint job, outdated flooring to name a few), so I'm guessing it wouldn't go for more than $180k (I'm putting a call into the realtor again today to further discuss). Realtor told me closing fees and taxes and recording fees and stamps and all that comes to $20k. So - 134,400+65000 (lets say) is 199. House sells for 180k. Everything total comes to $223k, lets say, that's -$43k deficiency. I'm told, at this point, it becomes an unsecured loan, much like a credit card, and THEN we can file BK on that and the rest of our debt...TRUE??

So I'm just looking for advice - what's the best thing to do in our situation??? We don't want the house, and we certainly don't want to have to pay anything (now or in the future when the 2nd decides to come calling). Advice, anyone?? Thank you!!!
 

pamzam

LoanSafe Member
Mar 29, 2010
37
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ONE more thing - sorry - I was thinking about calling the 2nd and asking them what my payoff amount was, or at least what I owe. That way I could start with settlement talks, perhaps...?
 

Nhaps

LoanSafe Member
May 12, 2017
1
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I obtained a HAMP in 2015, after 5 years of battling IndyMac, OneWest Bank, and finally Ocwen. I saved the home, but wrecked my credit with three BK's to take it off of Sheriff sale. Hamp provides a principal reduction of 50k for the first three years, and incentives of 1k per year until year 6, when we will get 5k applied to principal. After all the reduction and incentives we will have a 140k mortgage, with a balloon at the end.

But the issue here is my second mortgage, held by SLS for less than 30k. Initially I had decided to settle, but having read threads here proposed by TomEason, I decided to not pay a dime to this sold out junior. Eventually they stopped trying to call me for payment plans. I noticed that in one of my credit reports this second mortgage is slated for deletion later this year.

I think I'm doing the best I can from my standpoint, just wanted to get some further confirmation. I checked online at the county records, and I see no liens on the property. So I doubt they would sue before SOL.
 

RichardRoe

LoanSafe Member
May 11, 2013
9
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3
It's me again... responding to my own post from April 2016.
At this point it's probably not a great idea for me to post a lot of details on the Internets about the proceedings, but I promise to come back and post the results when I can make them public.
I got the demand letter from the law firm in March 2016; as noted above, I retained an attorney to represent me shortly after I got the letter. After some back and forth between my attorney and that law firm over the summer of 2016, I was sued by that law firm and served in October 2016. The initial court date was in December 2016, but it was continued into early 2017. Before it went to a hearing, my attorney made a settlement offer to the firm that was suing me. They accepted, and I ended up paying about half of the amount they were suing for, in March 2017. I probably paid $1,000 or so in legal fees to my attorney, beyond the settlement I paid to the other party. So it's now settled.

According to my attorney, my fatal mistake was signing something I shouldn't have when my ex refinanced the house in 2009, which reset the clock on the statute of limitations. If I hadn't signed that one piece of paper, the clock would have started ticking when we originally took out the line of credit in 2000, and it would have been past the SOL by the time it went to collections. I remember wondering if it was a good idea when I was asked to sign it, and I now know should have stopped at that point and asked a lawyer. However, the allure of "if you sign here, all of this break-up stuff can be over" was strong, so I signed it.

Thanks for listening!
 

sdbeachgirl

LoanSafe Member
Mar 3, 2018
9
0
1
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this thread and this is my first post. I need some help in settling a very old 2nd Countrywide HEL that was taken out in 2005 for $93K. The last payment I made was in 2008 and after about a year it was sold/transferred to RTR ( Real Times Resolution-a creditor) in 2009. I was told years ago by my attorney at that time that if they didn't sue me & get a judgement for 4 yrs (since the date of my past payment...Im in California) that I would be free from owing the debt. I know now that this is not true....my lawyer back then was extremely confident about this and so I never questioned it until recently. RTR did not do anything for the 4 yrs except send me letters (ironically none of them in 10 yrs have said "Foreclosure"...just asked to settle or work something out). They sent me letters until Oct 2017 and honestly, every time I got a letter I just ignored it and thought nothing of it. Well, here we are in 2018 and I have equity in my home now and I was considering selling my house. Before I listed, my realtor friend pulled title and discovered that the 2nd is still on there under Countrywide. I called Countrywide and they sent me a "Goodbye Letter" stating that they transferred my 2nd to RTR in 2009 and that my account is closed with them (Countrywide). I called my realtor's title company to see if I owed this $93K and they informed me that the 2nd would be taken out during escrow at whatever amount the 2nd said I owed, unless I work something out with them and get the 2nd lien removed. At the advice of an attorney (not my current attorney), I called RTR and they said that I owe $93K plus another $49K in interest! I was very careful not to say anything that would re-start the clock and told them that my attorney would be contacting them. My attorney then wrote them a strong letter basically telling them to show what they have that would give them assignment of my account. He said that we would be getting a quiet title if they did not show that they rightfully owned my account and acquired it legally. He sent them the letter about 2 weeks ago and we have heard nothing. I'm praying that they do not have the promissory note and deed and/or that there is a break in the chain. Seems like that could be the case since the transferred was never recorded/ filed but my loan is a MERS loan so I guess technically they don't have to. Has anyone been in this same situation? Any advice would be appreciated. RTR sent me a letter in 2014 offering to settle for $9K and then another letter in 2015 offering to settle for $50K. I haven't been offered any settlement letters after that. If I have to go file a quiet title suit it will cost $5-$10K if Im lucky (that's if I get a default judgment) and it would take 6 months or longer. I would honestly rather just settle with them and get them to remove the lien so that I can list my house. I know that I should not tell them that I want to sell my house because they will never settle with me and want the full amount. How do I come up with a settlement amount to offer them? What do these types of old 2nd's usually settle for? And what about this $49K in interest? Should I even add that into the equation? I don't even think charging that much interest is legal (especially if they don't legally own my account). On the flip side, I've been told that if they do really have rights to my account, they could now foreclose on me. Would they foreclose without writing us back? I know they are going to look up my property and see that I have equity to pay them. My attorney said that they they could foreclose if they have the original deed and proof that they acquired/purchased it legally but they must be able to show the paper trail. Please help. Thanks.
 

PatZZ

LoanSafe Member
Jan 30, 2011
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Hi everyone,
I'm new to this thread and this is my first post. I need some help in settling a very old 2nd Countrywide HEL that was taken out in 2005 for $93K. The last payment I made was in 2008 and after about a year it was sold/transferred to RTR ( Real Times Resolution-a creditor) in 2009. I was told years ago by my attorney at that time that if they didn't sue me & get a judgement for 4 yrs (since the date of my past payment...Im in California) that I would be free from owing the debt. I know now that this is not true....my lawyer back then was extremely confident about this and so I never questioned it until recently. RTR did not do anything for the 4 yrs except send me letters (ironically none of them in 10 yrs have said "Foreclosure"...just asked to settle or work something out). They sent me letters until Oct 2017 and honestly, every time I got a letter I just ignored it and thought nothing of it. Well, here we are in 2018 and I have equity in my home now and I was considering selling my house. Before I listed, my realtor friend pulled title and discovered that the 2nd is still on there under Countrywide. I called Countrywide and they sent me a "Goodbye Letter" stating that they transferred my 2nd to RTR in 2009 and that my account is closed with them (Countrywide). I called my realtor's title company to see if I owed this $93K and they informed me that the 2nd would be taken out during escrow at whatever amount the 2nd said I owed, unless I work something out with them and get the 2nd lien removed. At the advice of an attorney (not my current attorney), I called RTR and they said that I owe $93K plus another $49K in interest! I was very careful not to say anything that would re-start the clock and told them that my attorney would be contacting them. My attorney then wrote them a strong letter basically telling them to show what they have that would give them assignment of my account. He said that we would be getting a quiet title if they did not show that they rightfully owned my account and acquired it legally. He sent them the letter about 2 weeks ago and we have heard nothing. I'm praying that they do not have the promissory note and deed and/or that there is a break in the chain. Seems like that could be the case since the transferred was never recorded/ filed but my loan is a MERS loan so I guess technically they don't have to. Has anyone been in this same situation? Any advice would be appreciated. RTR sent me a letter in 2014 offering to settle for $9K and then another letter in 2015 offering to settle for $50K. I haven't been offered any settlement letters after that. If I have to go file a quiet title suit it will cost $5-$10K if Im lucky (that's if I get a default judgment) and it would take 6 months or longer. I would honestly rather just settle with them and get them to remove the lien so that I can list my house. I know that I should not tell them that I want to sell my house because they will never settle with me and want the full amount. How do I come up with a settlement amount to offer them? What do these types of old 2nd's usually settle for? And what about this $49K in interest? Should I even add that into the equation? I don't even think charging that much interest is legal (especially if they don't legally own my account). On the flip side, I've been told that if they do really have rights to my account, they could now foreclose on me. Would they foreclose without writing us back? I know they are going to look up my property and see that I have equity to pay them. My attorney said that they they could foreclose if they have the original deed and proof that they acquired/purchased it legally but they must be able to show the paper trail. Please help. Thanks.
Sure they can foreclose if they truly own the debt. Will they foreclose w/o writing back? Who knows? As to what offer for settlement, I wouldn't start any higher than what they 1st offered you, 9K. But since you are now reaching out to them after so long, they may figure that you NOW have a need to settle & any amount may be significantly higher.

You didn't mention how much equity you have. For foreclosure to make sense, there must be enough equity to cover selling at a reduced price (possibly), and all the fees involved - with monies remaining for them.

As to the SOL for a SOJL, for your purposes right now, the SOL is moot. The SOL would only eliminate your obligation to pay the debt. The lien would remain. So you would still have to settle it in order to sell. Don't forget that settling could cause the lender to 1099 you for the difference between the original amount owed & the amount settled. For a very long time, the IRS had given people a pass with this statute. To my knowledge, that has expired.

Regardless, you have 2 attorneys giving you different info about the SOL. How did you decide to believe the 2nd one? It's a tie. You should do your own research into the California Code and find the answer if that still matters to you. Attorneys can be wrong and often hate to say "I don't know."

You should find out if the 2nd was ever charged off by the prior lender - and if so, when. My understanding is that interest cannot accumulate after charge-off. You should be able to see this on an old credit report if the account has fallen off your report now.

By the way, Countrywide is in violation for not sending you the "Goodbye Letter" when the transfer occurred.

Good luck.
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sdbeachgirl

LoanSafe Member
Mar 3, 2018
9
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Thanks so much for your input. So, I owe 800k on my 1st and I have over 300k equity in the home which can be easily found on Zillow. When I briefly spoke with RTR they asked me how much equity I had and I said "I dont know...im not a realtor". I would think that they would try and settle with me first since foreclosing would cost them $ (im guessing 50k?) and they don't know how much I'd be willing to settle for. Your right though, I definitely opened up a can of worms calling them. My realtor's company attorney told me to call and i was very against it. As you can see, I've had a lot of bad legal advice and I get so many different answers from different attorneys...it's driving me crazy. I like your advice of starting at the 9k. If they dont have the deed then I think ill start even lower since that would mean they wouldnt be able to foreclose. From what I understand, they have to have my original note and deed and be able to show that they rightfully acquired it. Why they didnt record it I dont know. It's been 2 weeks and I'd think if they had their ducks in a row then they would have responded immediately saying that I owe it. Very nerveracking. I also heard that about the interest and was also told that it's against the law to contact and/or harass someone and report to credit bureus if they dont rightfully own the debt. They were horrible the first 5 yrs or so but the last few years have been very quiet except for a few letters. It says on my credit that it was closed/transferred to a new lender in 2009. I'll look again but I don't recall the word charged off on my report, but I feel like it was from memory.
 

PatZZ

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Jan 30, 2011
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Thanks so much for your input. So, I owe 800k on my 1st and I have over 300k equity in the home which can be easily found on Zillow. When I briefly spoke with RTR they asked me how much equity I had and I said "I dont know...im not a realtor". I would think that they would try and settle with me first since foreclosing would cost them $ (im guessing 50k?) and they don't know how much I'd be willing to settle for. Your right though, I definitely opened up a can of worms calling them. My realtor's company attorney told me to call and i was very against it. As you can see, I've had a lot of bad legal advice and I get so many different answers from different attorneys...it's driving me crazy. I like your advice of starting at the 9k. If they dont have the deed then I think ill start even lower since that would mean they wouldnt be able to foreclose. From what I understand, they have to have my original note and deed and be able to show that they rightfully acquired it. Why they didnt record it I dont know. It's been 2 weeks and I'd think if they had their ducks in a row then they would have responded immediately saying that I owe it. Very nerveracking. I also heard that about the interest and was also told that it's against the law to contact and/or harass someone and report to credit bureus if they dont rightfully own the debt. They were horrible the first 5 yrs or so but the last few years have been very quiet except for a few letters. It says on my credit that it was closed/transferred to a new lender in 2009. I'll look again but I don't recall the word charged off on my report, but I feel like it was from memory.
With that kind of equity, you might not be in a good place. So are you saying your equity was once much lower, and maybe that's why the 2nd never foreclosed?

Back to the issue of the SOL. Be aware as I mentioned earlier, there is a difference between the debt being eliminated & the lien being eliminated. According to what you said, the 1st attorney told you the SOL was 4 yrs and after that point, you would no longer owe the debt. He might be right. BUT, the lien would still exist. Perhaps he simply failed to tell you the rest of the story. If there is indeed a 4 yr SOL, yet they sent you collection letters in 2017, then they may have violated the FDCPA. For that, you can file a claim in federal court where your legal fees would be covered under the statute. That could be bargaining power for a settlement. You could choose to handle that yourself or engage a consumer attorney who specializes in FDCPA cases to do the bargaining for you. The attorney can look at the letters they sent to you to see if there was a violation. You could pay the attorney (a hundred bucks or so) to write a nice, legal, threatening letter basically saying "Either settle the debt or we sue." But at the same time, you still want to be certain they can prove they own the debt. Did they ever send you a "WELCOME" letter? If not, that's another violation.

You only have one year after the violation to file a claim under the FDCPA.

Give yourself time to think and investigate before moving too fast. Never forget that 1099 issue. Big problem. Try to bargain that away too.
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sdbeachgirl

LoanSafe Member
Mar 3, 2018
9
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Yes, at one point, many years ago..it was underwater...but it hasn't been in probably 4 years or so...I mean it's possible they've been just sitting there letting me gain equity and waiting to foreclose...but why haven't they done it earlier and why have they never mentioned the word "foreclose" in any letter? I find that odd since you'd think they'd want to scare me and they try every trick in the book to get you to settle. In 2014 when they offered to settle for $9k and I probably had around $150K equity back then. I also find it strange that they went all the way up to $50K to settle in 2015 from $9k the year prior.

So, this is weird. I just looked at my credit report again to see if it mentions a charge off and it says:

BAC HOME LOANS SERV ( it was originally with Countrywide and then transferred to RTR..strange it lists BofA... )
Current; Paid or Paying as : Agreed (?)
Terms: Paid Monthly
Responsibility: Individual Account (?)
Loan Type: HOME EQUITY LOAN
Last Payment Made: 07/20/2009 (?-this is wrong..it was in 2008)
Date Closed: 07/20/2009
Balance: $0 (?-they are saying I owe $93K + $49K in interest...)
Date Updated: 08/31/2009 (has not been updated since 2009?)
Payment Received: $0
Remarks: TRANSFERRED TO ANOTHER LENDER; TRANSFERRED TO ANOTHER OFFICE


How can they say that my account is Paid or Paying as agreed? Also, it says that my account is an "individual account". Does that mean it's a non secured account now? I think that is better for me right? It says my balance is zero and that it was closed in 2009. Does closed mean charged off or does it have to say "charged off"? Seems like there are a lot of inconsistencies here. Says updated in 2009 so maybe this is what it said as of that date and it hasn't been updated since?

Regarding the 1099...do you know the rate that it's taxed at? Is it different for everyone or fixed? Would it just be on the 93K or on the 93K + interest they say I owe? Yikes..I did read that you can claim insolvent or something like that but I'm guessing that doesn't apply if you have equity..

Thanks so much for your feedback and help!
 

PatZZ

LoanSafe Member
Jan 30, 2011
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Yes, at one point, many years ago..it was underwater...but it hasn't been in probably 4 years or so...I mean it's possible they've been just sitting there letting me gain equity and waiting to foreclose...but why haven't they done it earlier and why have they never mentioned the word "foreclose" in any letter? I find that odd since you'd think they'd want to scare me and they try every trick in the book to get you to settle. In 2014 when they offered to settle for $9k and I probably had around $150K equity back then. I also find it strange that they went all the way up to $50K to settle in 2015 from $9k the year prior.

So, this is weird. I just looked at my credit report again to see if it mentions a charge off and it says:

BAC HOME LOANS SERV ( it was originally with Countrywide and then transferred to RTR..strange it lists BofA... )
Current; Paid or Paying as : Agreed (?)
Terms: Paid Monthly
Responsibility: Individual Account (?)
Loan Type: HOME EQUITY LOAN
Last Payment Made: 07/20/2009 (?-this is wrong..it was in 2008)
Date Closed: 07/20/2009
Balance: $0 (?-they are saying I owe $93K + $49K in interest...)
Date Updated: 08/31/2009 (has not been updated since 2009?)
Payment Received: $0
Remarks: TRANSFERRED TO ANOTHER LENDER; TRANSFERRED TO ANOTHER OFFICE


How can they say that my account is Paid or Paying as agreed? Also, it says that my account is an "individual account". Does that mean it's a non secured account now? I think that is better for me right? It says my balance is zero and that it was closed in 2009. Does closed mean charged off or does it have to say "charged off"? Seems like there are a lot of inconsistencies here. Says updated in 2009 so maybe this is what it said as of that date and it hasn't been updated since?

Regarding the 1099...do you know the rate that it's taxed at? Is it different for everyone or fixed? Would it just be on the 93K or on the 93K + interest they say I owe? Yikes..I did read that you can claim insolvent or something like that but I'm guessing that doesn't apply if you have equity..

Thanks so much for your feedback and help!
Gee, so many things sdbeachgirl.

  1. You ask a lot of questions about why things are as they are. No one knows why your lender is acting as they are and doing what they are doing. It's anyone's guess. It's not a science. But know they are maximizing their dollars and income by doing what they're doing. It has long been said that buyers of defaulted 2nd mortgages were willing to just sit on debt until the market rebounded and then they would foreclose, or perhaps even sell the debt and make money that way. If the latter, they would have no interest in settling. Though SOL debt has less value on the market.
  2. Maybe they haven't foreclosed or threatened to because of the SOL Therefore, they want to get you to settle and pay them outside of court. But we don't know. Once again, asking you to settle could be a FDCPA violation if the SOL has passed.
  3. There's also no science to how/why lenders offer their settlements. My 2nd & 3rd lender offered settlements all over the map back to back. This is typical. We have no idea how the management & back office of their business works. Not worth trying to figure them out.
  4. If your report doesn't mention charge-off, then there's a 99% chance it was never charged off.
  5. Never take credit information reporting as the gospel. Surely you have heard how wrong credit reporting can be.
  6. "individual" and "secured" have nothing to do with one another. Individual means your account is solely in your name, as opposed to you and someone else. Right or wrong, that's what is being reported.
  7. Clearly, RTR has never reported a thing. What you see on credit is all BOA/CW and it stopped updating after transfer, as required by the bureaus. Your balance to CW is $0. You owe them nothing.
  8. The loan is secured by the lien. Didn't your realtor already tell you that?
  9. The 1099 amount would be taxed at YOUR tax rate when you file. The amount would be whatever amount they put on the 1099. I have no idea. And no, you don't come across as an insolvent filer.
  10. They can no longer report this debt to the bureaus, but keep track that they don't. I'm shocked they never reported.
  11. You didn't comment at all about the violations I mentioned. Don't lose sight of the potential there.
Did your attorney request the loan ownership information via a "Request for Information" pursuant to 12 U.S.C. § 2605(k)(1)(D)?" That statute requires a servicer of a federally related mortgage to respond within 10 business days to a request from a borrower to provide the identity, address, and other relevant contact information about the owner or assignee of the loan. Must be sent to the servicer at the proper address and the statute should be quoted in the letter. Failure to properly respond with the CORRECT and PROPER information would be yet another violation under RESPA. If it were me, I would do this immediately since contact has already been made. No more harm can be done. In fact, if they can't prove ownership via response to that RESPA request, then it would tell you that settling for a smaller amount should be easier.

Or, again, locate a FDCPA attorney, focus on these violations, and go from there. If you are looking to sell quick and don't have time for that, well, that's a whole other story and might mean you're gonna pay through the nose IF they comply with your RESPA request and validate ownership - assuming it's true of course. There is no violation when you contact them and offer to settle. Whatever you do, be CALM and do not come across as a desperado. Act like you can take it or leave it. And refuse to provide your financials.

Unless they just tragically mismanaged and lost all the documentation, it would seem a bit odd if RTR can't prove ownership since it was just that one transfer from CW to them. Although BOA and CW were both a mess back then.

I suggest you honker down and use Google to research some of this stuff. NEVER rely on one source for your answers and information. At a minimum, use Google to research Real Time.

Perhaps someone else will chime in on this forum, but it has been quiet for quite a while.

If you didn't see this thread, you might want to visit: https://www.loansafe.org/forum/threads/strategy-for-settling-your-2nd.37996/. The thread is closed, but the info and posts are still there.
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sdbeachgirl

LoanSafe Member
Mar 3, 2018
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Thank you so much for this info. My lawyer's letter did not mention the "Request for Information" in those exact words. He did ask them to show evidence of the validity of the debt but does not mention the civil code. I wonder if the statute has to be quoted in the letter to make a claim for this violation? It's been 18 days since we mailed it. He does mention Civil Code 2932.5 about showing assignment and recording of the debt and something else about it being illegal to try and collect on a time barred debt. His letter basically says show us what you have or go record a certificate of discharge. I was told by several consumer credit attorneys on the phone that it sounded like RTR had violated several codes and that just 1 violation could mean that I owe nothing...so I do need to really look into this. Thank you for explaining so much and for the great advice. I'm going to read up on that other thread now.
 

PatZZ

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Jan 30, 2011
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Thank you so much for this info. My lawyer's letter did not mention the "Request for Information" in those exact words. He did ask them to show evidence of the validity of the debt but does not mention the civil code. I wonder if the statute has to be quoted in the letter to make a claim for this violation? It's been 18 days since we mailed it. He does mention Civil Code 2932.5 about showing assignment and recording of the debt and something else about it being illegal to try and collect on a time barred debt. His letter basically says show us what you have or go record a certificate of discharge. I was told by several consumer credit attorneys on the phone that it sounded like RTR had violated several codes and that just 1 violation could mean that I owe nothing...so I do need to really look into this. Thank you for explaining so much and for the great advice. I'm going to read up on that other thread now.
2932.5 must be Cal Code, and it appears that's the route your attorney took. A "Request for Information" is federal. Quoting a statute is just something par for the course when writing letters like that. As you saw, your attorney mentioned 2932.5 in the letter. I don't know what the penalties are for violation of 2932.5 (i.e., not responding). That's something you should research. Once we jump into the foray of foreclosures and sold out loans, etc., research must become your best friend. Combine your research with what people tell you.

Assuming they can prove ownership, the only violation that I can see that would mean you owe nothing is the SOL. And even then, the lien would remain. I wonder what the other violations could be that might mean you owe nothing. Most of these violations of statutes merely come with fines and penalties. I admit, however, I know nothing about violations of Cal Code. I don't live there. But when attorneys say stuff like that, try to drag some detail out of them. For certain, that is critical information.

Keep in mind that maybe RTR did not respond to your attorney because they know the debt is time-barred. Sadly, sometimes we just can't be sure what these characters are up to.

Keep at it. I feel like you'll be lucky.
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sdbeachgirl

LoanSafe Member
Mar 3, 2018
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1
Hi again,
So, they responded in a not very aggressive letter (no push back at all..no threats...mo mention foreclosure..) by saying that the statute is not up, stating Civil Code 882.020 in regards to the DOT and say "regardless of the note" makes me think they definitely do not have my original note...), and also say that because MERS was used there is no need to show assignment. They said "RTR does not believe that is required to execute an assignment to collect on a DOT and furthermore the DOT is currently recorded in MERS therefore no assignment is necessary". This seems strange to me as everything I've read says the contrary. I have read up on MERS and understand that part, but they also should have to show that assignment was done correctly, right? They also sent me the same copies of my DOT and note that I got myself from BofA.... They are saying the "Home Equity Credit Line Agreement and Disclosure Statement"-is the "note"..is this true? My gut is that they don't have the originals. They don't mention whether these are the originals or not and just refer to the documents as "enclosed bearing my signature". Any thoughts? I'm not sure how to respond or begin any type of settlement conversation. My lawyer said that he "assumes" they have the originals and it's not essential to my case, but I was telling him that it's very important to know whether they have them or not...
 

red1234

LoanSafe Member
Mar 20, 2018
2
0
1
Hi, I've received authorization to negotiate on behalf of my aunt to settle her second mortgage back in Nov 2017. Negotiations are a bit rough, I've got my first offer from them back in early January and have not replied since getting it. Offer expired in Feb 24.

Expired Offer:

Current house value: $831,743
1st Mortgage: $490,000
2nd Mortgage: $174,910

Pay off 2nd mortgage at 99%: $173,178

Reading through your help topics, I understand the house is way above water. She has never missed a payment on her 1st mortgage but never paid anything for her 2nd mortgage. Her 2nd mortgage was created in 2008 and I believe was sold to RealTimeResolutions sometime in Oct 2016 based on the late fees. The house is in California. I've mistakenly given some financial info provided to me such as tax info over the phone but not through paper.

I am unsure how to proceed with this as I don't think they will be willing to negotiate. I am unsure how SOL works exactly either. Can anyone help me out on how I should attempt to settle with them?
 

PatZZ

LoanSafe Member
Jan 30, 2011
1,821
131
63
Nearby
Hi again,
So, they responded in a not very aggressive letter (no push back at all..no threats...mo mention foreclosure..) by saying that the statute is not up, stating Civil Code 882.020 in regards to the DOT and say "regardless of the note" makes me think they definitely do not have my original note...), and also say that because MERS was used there is no need to show assignment. They said "RTR does not believe that is required to execute an assignment to collect on a DOT and furthermore the DOT is currently recorded in MERS therefore no assignment is necessary". This seems strange to me as everything I've read says the contrary. I have read up on MERS and understand that part, but they also should have to show that assignment was done correctly, right? They also sent me the same copies of my DOT and note that I got myself from BofA.... They are saying the "Home Equity Credit Line Agreement and Disclosure Statement"-is the "note"..is this true? My gut is that they don't have the originals. They don't mention whether these are the originals or not and just refer to the documents as "enclosed bearing my signature". Any thoughts? I'm not sure how to respond or begin any type of settlement conversation. My lawyer said that he "assumes" they have the originals and it's not essential to my case, but I was telling him that it's very important to know whether they have them or not...
You''re focusing a lot on the originals, but many courts don't care about originals. And lenders can get away with 'Lost Note Affidavits." Research case law in your state regarding MERS, document originals, etc., using Google Scholar. I don't have those answers for you. All this stuff is often state specific. What the courts allow in one state might be moot in another. You need CA law and precedent. I can't help with that. In my state, originals mean nothing in the court.

Of course they would claim the SOL is not up. That's what I would say too. Did you read the Code they referenced to see what it says?

You start with settlement by just writing and making them an offer - if that's what you choose to do. The starting offer should be a lowball amount.
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PatZZ

LoanSafe Member
Jan 30, 2011
1,821
131
63
Nearby
Hi, I've received authorization to negotiate on behalf of my aunt to settle her second mortgage back in Nov 2017. Negotiations are a bit rough, I've got my first offer from them back in early January and have not replied since getting it. Offer expired in Feb 24.

Expired Offer:

Current house value: $831,743
1st Mortgage: $490,000
2nd Mortgage: $174,910

Pay off 2nd mortgage at 99%: $173,178

Reading through your help topics, I understand the house is way above water. She has never missed a payment on her 1st mortgage but never paid anything for her 2nd mortgage. Her 2nd mortgage was created in 2008 and I believe was sold to RealTimeResolutions sometime in Oct 2016 based on the late fees. The house is in California. I've mistakenly given some financial info provided to me such as tax info over the phone but not through paper.

I am unsure how to proceed with this as I don't think they will be willing to negotiate. I am unsure how SOL works exactly either. Can anyone help me out on how I should attempt to settle with them?
If you have read through these posts, then you know how problematic it can be when a house has equity. But they made you an offer already, so clearly, they are prepared to do something. "Negotiations are a bit rough." Don't know what that means. Giving financial info is not good as you know now. If that info was not to your aunt's benefit, then negotiations might not favor her. You can imagine why they ask for that kind of information.

All you can do is make an offer, a lowball offer that she can afford. Tell them you did not have the money they offered in their initial letter, but you can settle for $whatever dollars immediately. You need to lowball to give them room to write back and counter. That's all I can suggest. This is not rocket science. It's mostly luck at this point. RTR can be a bear. Google them.

Good luck.
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MsMarie

LoanSafe Member
Sep 21, 2010
15
0
1
Florida
Good afternoon everyone,
I have been following this thread, on and off for some time now. Just recently, the account to a SOJL that has passed the SOL was transfered to Real Time Resolutions. However, in the letter I received from them, they state that the current creditor continues to be BOA.

Here is the background. I did a short sale on a home back in 2010. The second at the time (BOA) would not allow the house to sell unless I signed a promissory note. BOA was not the original creditor. After the short sale, I was completely underwater at the time, and followed the advise on this thread to ignore all collection efforts. Thankfully I was not sued and the SOL ran out. My credit score took a huge hit, but just last year, all derogatory information was dropped and my score, as well as, my financials has since recovered somewhat. I am considering purchasing again but am a bit concerned due to this new agency.

So I was wondering can this new servicing agent start adding fees and interest for non payment to the outstanding balance. Would they be able to legally place a lien on or come after any future property I purchase? Should I send a cease and desist letter or continue ignoring them.