Sold Out Junior Loans

Royal Delta1

LoanSafe Member
Oct 10, 2014
154
25
28
47
You should probably be looking at the Settling with Second thread, as clearly your second hasn't been sold out. You might also want to consider consulting a good bankruptcy lawyer.

Also, thanks kidsandliz for your reply, glad everything turned out OK for you.
 

rkd1908

LoanSafe Member
Oct 26, 2016
4
0
1
78
T
You should probably be looking at the Settling with Second thread, as clearly your second hasn't been sold out. You might also want to consider consulting a good bankruptcy lawyer.

Also, thanks kidsandliz for your reply, glad everything turned out OK for you.
Thanks... finally figured that out after reading the differences in SOJL and 2nd Mortgages
 

Micrew

LoanSafe Member
Dec 23, 2016
4
0
1
59
What now? I took TomEason's advice and that of others to ignore and wait them out. Statue of Limitations is 6 years in Michigan. Now Five years and 10 months later, I'm being sued and the papers served show the bank as the Planiff. Fifth Third foreclosed on the home in 2011 and HELOC went unsecured. It's a recourse loan state. The attorneys for the bank are asking 30K for loan, 22K for interest and unknown amount for fees. So basically $52K+ I haven't answered the suit yet, just got it on Dec 24th. I have zero assets, so not sure what they are hoping to get other than a judgement.
Has anyone gone through this in Michigan yet?
 

spike9999

LoanSafe Member
May 28, 2014
186
37
28
What now? I took TomEason's advice and that of others to ignore and wait them out. Statue of Limitations is 6 years in Michigan. Now Five years and 10 months later, I'm being sued and the papers served show the bank as the Planiff. Fifth Third foreclosed on the home in 2011 and HELOC went unsecured. It's a recourse loan state. The attorneys for the bank are asking 30K for loan, 22K for interest and unknown amount for fees. So basically $52K+ I haven't answered the suit yet, just got it on Dec 24th. I have zero assets, so not sure what they are hoping to get other than a judgement.
Has anyone gone through this in Michigan yet?
Others may chime in, but I can tell you from my experience- not answering a lawsuit is never a good plan. You still have time to respond but not much. You need to talk with an attorney-for assistance. The county might even have assistance if you don't have money to pay for one. At the very least a BK Attorney should be able to help. Do you have a job? Do you have any money in your bank accounts? Because they can and most likely attack your wages. Depending on the state they can keep renewing the judgement for many years. You need to weigh out all your options and maybe BK might be your best route at this point. Best of luck.
 

PatZZ

LoanSafe Member
Jan 30, 2011
2,026
157
63
Nearby
What now? I took TomEason's advice and that of others to ignore and wait them out. Statue of Limitations is 6 years in Michigan. Now Five years and 10 months later, I'm being sued and the papers served show the bank as the Planiff. Fifth Third foreclosed on the home in 2011 and HELOC went unsecured. It's a recourse loan state. The attorneys for the bank are asking 30K for loan, 22K for interest and unknown amount for fees. So basically $52K+ I haven't answered the suit yet, just got it on Dec 24th. I have zero assets, so not sure what they are hoping to get other than a judgement.
Has anyone gone through this in Michigan yet?
Don't feel you missed much with the SOL defense. With the exception of New York, courts are shooting down that defense across the country - so the banks can win.
.
 

Micrew

LoanSafe Member
Dec 23, 2016
4
0
1
59
Others may chime in, but I can tell you from my experience- not answering a lawsuit is never a good plan. You still have time to respond but not much. You need to talk with an attorney-for assistance. The county might even have assistance if you don't have money to pay for one. At the very least a BK Attorney should be able to help. Do you have a job? Do you have any money in your bank accounts? Because they can and most likely attack your wages. Depending on the state they can keep renewing the judgement for many years. You need to weigh out all your options and maybe BK might be your best route at this point. Best of luck.
I have a job, but no other assets they can attach to. Was just served on Friday night, so talking to an attorney is going to be difficult over the holidays. I have sent emails to three of them and have done some research on BK. Any one have success contacting the bank at this point and working out a payoff? Are there right or wrong ways to go about this? (I'm sure there are very wrong ways...)
 

Micrew

LoanSafe Member
Dec 23, 2016
4
0
1
59
Called plaintiff attorney today and offered a settlement amount, they declined saying maybe 75%. The attorney said they were a collection firm and they needed financials to back up my claim that I didn't funds . I politely declined and reiterated my settlement offer. Guess we go to court now, but a court date hasn't been set yet.
Do I have any other recourse(s) at this point other than Ch7?

I've read so many stories where folks did not wait for the SOL and settled for 5-20%, don't think I've come across many stories where someone made it to Statue of Limitations.
 

Royal Delta1

LoanSafe Member
Oct 10, 2014
154
25
28
47
Called plaintiff attorney today and offered a settlement amount, they declined saying maybe 75%. The attorney said they were a collection firm and they needed financials to back up my claim that I didn't funds . I politely declined and reiterated my settlement offer. Guess we go to court now, but a court date hasn't been set yet.
Do I have any other recourse(s) at this point other than Ch7?

I've read so many stories where folks did not wait for the SOL and settled for 5-20%, don't think I've come across many stories where someone made it to Statue of Limitations.
Micrew, have you considered chapter 13? Under it, you may be able to get that second stripped off, or just pay a very small amount. I would research that and talk to an attorney.
 

Micrew

LoanSafe Member
Dec 23, 2016
4
0
1
59
I would like to avoid the BK route, but yes that is an option. I'm talking to an attorney tomorrow. Thank you.
 

MyGirl922

LoanSafe Member
Mar 29, 2009
16
1
1
I have a particularly odd situation that I can't find any instances of on Loansafe yet. And going by the original post on this tread I am one of those people that want to make good on a note and also have a security clearance as well with periodic credit checks. I have a 2nd mortgage that was charged off from OCWEN back in August 2014. It was then sold (I assume) to Nationwide Credit (NCI) and not knowing any better I have been making monthly payments with them ever since August 2014 for the original monthly loan amount. When I called NCI back in Oct 2016 about an issue with my billing (that still comes with OCWEN on the letter head), out of the blue they brought up settling this debt, which I had never heard of. Upon further investigation with the county clerks office, I found out that the 2nd lien on this property was released in Oct 2014, therefore now making this loan an unsecured loan in my opinion. Now that tax refund money is in, I was contemplating settling this debt which is roughly 36K (originally in Aug 2014 was 47K) with an offer of 2K which is roughly 5% of the current owed. In my settlement letter should I provide a copy of the Lien Satisfaction from the county to show that I truly hold the cards in this case. My 1st mortgage has been current since 2014.

Edit: I should also note my home is no longer underwater even with my second mortgage and I do not have financial hardships any longer. I just want to get rid of this bad debt. Also this collection agency does not show up on my credit report. Of my 3 credit reports, Experian shows the charge-off as Paid after I submitted the satisfaction of lien, while the other two do not.
 

PatZZ

LoanSafe Member
Jan 30, 2011
2,026
157
63
Nearby
I have a particularly odd situation that I can't find any instances of on Loansafe yet. And going by the original post on this tread I am one of those people that want to make good on a note and also have a security clearance as well with periodic credit checks. I have a 2nd mortgage that was charged off from OCWEN back in August 2014. It was then sold (I assume) to Nationwide Credit (NCI) and not knowing any better I have been making monthly payments with them ever since August 2014 for the original monthly loan amount. When I called NCI back in Oct 2016 about an issue with my billing (that still comes with OCWEN on the letter head), out of the blue they brought up settling this debt, which I had never heard of. Upon further investigation with the county clerks office, I found out that the 2nd lien on this property was released in Oct 2014, therefore now making this loan an unsecured loan in my opinion. Now that tax refund money is in, I was contemplating settling this debt which is roughly 36K (originally in Aug 2014 was 47K) with an offer of 2K which is roughly 5% of the current owed. In my settlement letter should I provide a copy of the Lien Satisfaction from the county to show that I truly hold the cards in this case. My 1st mortgage has been current since 2014.

Edit: I should also note my home is no longer underwater even with my second mortgage and I do not have financial hardships any longer. I just want to get rid of this bad debt. Also this collection agency does not show up on my credit report. Of my 3 credit reports, Experian shows the charge-off as Paid after I submitted the satisfaction of lien, while the other two do not.
I would tend to believe NCI knows everything you know. They are known to have the best systems. They know the lien is toast if they are not a mortgage servicer and they know you have equity. Run-of-the-mill debt buyers who buy charged-off seconds realize they will have an unsecured debt. Are there exceptions to this, or does it vary by state? Not certain. For sure though, they can still collect on it and cause you trouble. What surprises me is that they want to settle with someone who has been making the full payment for so long w/o argument.

Be aware there are complaints out there that Ocwen and NCI work together like Jack and Jill, often not nice. Ocwen is a bear even when they are not working with NCI. NCI may look at you as someone who has no problem paying the bill and has equity, and clearly wants to keep the home, and so maybe they can bum rush a BIG settlement out of you under threat of a civil lawsuit. I would bet you will not get away with a $2k settlement. When they brought up settlement, what did they offer? Tread with care. I'm sure you know to never mention your need for the security clearance.
.
 

loansuccess

LoanSafe Member
Aug 7, 2013
42
2
6
I have a particularly odd situation that I can't find any instances of on Loansafe yet. And going by the original post on this tread I am one of those people that want to make good on a note and also have a security clearance as well with periodic credit checks. I have a 2nd mortgage that was charged off from OCWEN back in August 2014. It was then sold (I assume) to Nationwide Credit (NCI) and not knowing any better I have been making monthly payments with them ever since August 2014 for the original monthly loan amount. When I called NCI back in Oct 2016 about an issue with my billing (that still comes with OCWEN on the letter head), out of the blue they brought up settling this debt, which I had never heard of. Upon further investigation with the county clerks office, I found out that the 2nd lien on this property was released in Oct 2014, therefore now making this loan an unsecured loan in my opinion. Now that tax refund money is in, I was contemplating settling this debt which is roughly 36K (originally in Aug 2014 was 47K) with an offer of 2K which is roughly 5% of the current owed. In my settlement letter should I provide a copy of the Lien Satisfaction from the county to show that I truly hold the cards in this case. My 1st mortgage has been current since 2014.

Edit: I should also note my home is no longer underwater even with my second mortgage and I do not have financial hardships any longer. I just want to get rid of this bad debt. Also this collection agency does not show up on my credit report. Of my 3 credit reports, Experian shows the charge-off as Paid after I submitted the satisfaction of lien, while the other two do not.
Good Evening, I'm confused - if Ocwen released the lien on the property for the 2nd lien, why are you paying Nationwide. Do they have a lien on the property?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MyGirl922

PatZZ

LoanSafe Member
Jan 30, 2011
2,026
157
63
Nearby
Good Evening, I'm confused - if Ocwen released the lien on the property for the 2nd lien, why are you paying Nationwide. Do they have a lien on the property?
She said she didn't know the lien had been released while she was paying.

There are different types of releases: The lender can either release lien & state that the debt is paid/settled in full (full release and satisfaction) OR release the lien and still hold borrower personally liable for any unpaid balance (lien release only). Only MyGirl knows what the release says and that is VERY important.
.
 

MyGirl922

LoanSafe Member
Mar 29, 2009
16
1
1
She said she didn't know the lien had been released while she was paying.

There are different types of releases: The lender can either release lien & state that the debt is paid/settled in full (full release and satisfaction) OR release the lien and still hold borrower personally liable for any unpaid balance (lien release only). Only MyGirl knows what the release says and that is VERY important.
.
That was the thing, I have been paying on it ever since 2014 without missing a month and it wasn't until 2016 that we started getting regular bills from them. I only assume the lien was "Satisfied" on the 2nd mortgage because OCWEN may have been prepping to foreclose on the first mortgage (both 1st and 2nd mortgages were held by OCWEN) and needed to write off the second, but I became current on that mortgage before they could. The 2nd mortgage Satisfaction letter to the county clerk states :

"The undersigned hereby certifies that the premises secured by the above mentioned mortgage has been fully released and that upon the recording hereof said mortgage shall be and is released as a lien on the premises above referenced"

On my credit report, it is listed as a Charge off for the 2nd mortgage. When talking to recent mortgage companies, they even questioned what bearing they had and asked why I was even paying it back. When I questioned NCI late last year about the lien being released they flat out denied it and said it was not possible, but the county records show differently obviously. The only lien that currently remains on the property is the 1st mortgage under the original servicer back in 2006 (Option One mortgage). When NCI brought up settlement over the phone they never mentioned an amount, only asked what I would be willing to pay and that I would need to submit financial records. I did have a realtor on Friday find comps in the area and since my house (comp wise) has not sold in the past year in my town, he opened the search to the school district where comps clear about 10K more than my current first mortgage. So, in this case, the home would be considered under water by 26K (remember the 2nd mortgage is ~36K). This whole thing definitely just has me scratching my head.
 

PatZZ

LoanSafe Member
Jan 30, 2011
2,026
157
63
Nearby
That was the thing, I have been paying on it ever since 2014 without missing a month and it wasn't until 2016 that we started getting regular bills from them. I only assume the lien was "Satisfied" on the 2nd mortgage because OCWEN may have been prepping to foreclose on the first mortgage (both 1st and 2nd mortgages were held by OCWEN) and needed to write off the second, but I became current on that mortgage before they could. The 2nd mortgage Satisfaction letter to the county clerk states :

"The undersigned hereby certifies that the premises secured by the above mentioned mortgage has been fully released and that upon the recording hereof said mortgage shall be and is released as a lien on the premises above referenced"

On my credit report, it is listed as a Charge off for the 2nd mortgage. When talking to recent mortgage companies, they even questioned what bearing they had and asked why I was even paying it back. When I questioned NCI late last year about the lien being released they flat out denied it and said it was not possible, but the county records show differently obviously. The only lien that currently remains on the property is the 1st mortgage under the original servicer back in 2006 (Option One mortgage). When NCI brought up settlement over the phone they never mentioned an amount, only asked what I would be willing to pay and that I would need to submit financial records. I did have a realtor on Friday find comps in the area and since my house (comp wise) has not sold in the past year in my town, he opened the search to the school district where comps clear about 10K more than my current first mortgage. So, in this case, the home would be considered under water by 26K (remember the 2nd mortgage is ~36K). This whole thing definitely just has me scratching my head.
Where I live, a paid lien has "SATISFIED" stamped on it. Every state is different. I suggest you contact your county recording office, or a real estate attorney. Either will surely know all the particularities. Of course, the county is free and probably quicker. Releasing that lien could have been an Ocwen mistake. However, over the past few years, countless people had their 2nds released because lenders got incentives from the Feds. Don't know if Ocwen was part of that.

I would pay zero attention to anything Ocwen employees are saying right now. If you haven't learned yet, mortgage servicing employees are the dumbest of doornails anywhere, and will tell borrowers anything. In fact, I wouldn't be talking to them about the lien at all.

Just because a debt has been charged off doesn't mean you don't have to pay the debt. "Charge-off" is nothing but an accounting term. Try researching some of this stuff on Google (reliable sites) so you aren't misled by many "opinions."

By the way, if you haven't already read elsewhere on the forum, I would never give these clowns my financials so THEY can try to tell me what I can afford to pay or what they will accept. Plus, my money is none of their business. Big mistake.

.
 

MyGirl922

LoanSafe Member
Mar 29, 2009
16
1
1
Where I live, a paid lien has "SATISFIED" stamped on it. Every state is different. I suggest you contact your county recording office, or a real estate attorney. Either will surely know all the particularities. Of course, the county is free and probably quicker. Releasing that lien could have been an Ocwen mistake. However, over the past few years, countless people had their 2nds released because lenders got incentives from the Feds. Don't know if Ocwen was part of that.

I would pay zero attention to anything Ocwen employees are saying right now. If you haven't learned yet, mortgage servicing employees are the dumbest of doornails anywhere, and will tell borrowers anything. In fact, I wouldn't be talking to them about the lien at all.

Just because a debt has been charged off doesn't mean you don't have to pay the debt. "Charge-off" is nothing but an accounting term. Try researching some of this stuff on Google (reliable sites) so you aren't misled by many "opinions."

By the way, if you haven't already read elsewhere on the forum, I would never give these clowns my financials so THEY can try to tell me what I can afford to pay or what they will accept. Plus, my money is none of their business. Big mistake.

.
Funny enough OCWEN refuses to talk to me at all about this account and automatically refers me to NCI by forwarding my calls to them. I am one of those people who have continued to pay on this debt because I have every intention to make right on it, since this was a loan I took out and its just the right thing to do. Even if I ultimately unable to settle this debt, the fact that I am paying on something and not even getting credit for it on my credit report is annoying as hell. :)
 

PatZZ

LoanSafe Member
Jan 30, 2011
2,026
157
63
Nearby
Funny enough OCWEN refuses to talk to me at all about this account and automatically refers me to NCI by forwarding my calls to them. I am one of those people who have continued to pay on this debt because I have every intention to make right on it, since this was a loan I took out and its just the right thing to do. Even if I ultimately unable to settle this debt, the fact that I am paying on something and not even getting credit for it on my credit report is annoying as hell. :)
Commendable.
 

MyGirl922

LoanSafe Member
Mar 29, 2009
16
1
1
Where I live, a paid lien has "SATISFIED" stamped on it. Every state is different. I suggest you contact your county recording office, or a real estate attorney. Either will surely know all the particularities. Of course, the county is free and probably quicker. Releasing that lien could have been an Ocwen mistake. However, over the past few years, countless people had their 2nds released because lenders got incentives from the Feds. Don't know if Ocwen was part of that.

I would pay zero attention to anything Ocwen employees are saying right now. If you haven't learned yet, mortgage servicing employees are the dumbest of doornails anywhere, and will tell borrowers anything. In fact, I wouldn't be talking to them about the lien at all.

Just because a debt has been charged off doesn't mean you don't have to pay the debt. "Charge-off" is nothing but an accounting term. Try researching some of this stuff on Google (reliable sites) so you aren't misled by many "opinions."

By the way, if you haven't already read elsewhere on the forum, I would never give these clowns my financials so THEY can try to tell me what I can afford to pay or what they will accept. Plus, my money is none of their business. Big mistake.

.
So NCI came back asking me to provide financials (which I obviously read not to) and also asked for a copy of my tax bill that has the house assessment on it. The reason for the house assessment was because when they ran whatever program to find the value on my home it came back nearly 40-50K more than the comps of area homes in my town and school district. I also reminded them I sent the area comp information that was pulled by recent listings over the last year as well as a copy of the Satisfaction of the Lien from the Recorder of deeds for the county. Of course NCI had no record of me sending them the comps and satisfaction that just so happened to be mailed with my settlement offer letter. I am okay with sending them the county assessment on the home because that assessment was made back in 1998 and lists the value of the home for $119K, Comps value is 170-185K, and NCI's value is 219K (I honestly laughed when they asked for that document). They also asked for a hardship letter as well. So the question is what documents do I actually send back of the Assessment, Financials, Hardship Letter, Satisfaction of Lien? They also came back saying they would not take my 2K settlement offer to OCWEN since it was too low and I needed to come back, but they also would not counter it at all. Thoughts?
 

MyGirl922

LoanSafe Member
Mar 29, 2009
16
1
1
Commendable.
So NCI/OCWEN finally came back to me after I adamantly stated they released the lien on the mortgage and once they realized it, they reopened my settlement offer file. They came back less than 36 hours later with a counter offer at 10% at $3,851 (I offered ~5% - $2,000). I was willing to pay up to 4K to settle this 2nd mortgage with OCWEN. This was the their only counter offer, albeit they said it was their Final, the 2 previous times they wouldn't even submit the 2K offer I proposed. I am honestly excited about this offer and potentially being done with this chapter of my life. Do you think this is a acceptable counter or should I potentially counter their counter?
 

PatZZ

LoanSafe Member
Jan 30, 2011
2,026
157
63
Nearby
So NCI/OCWEN finally came back to me after I adamantly stated they released the lien on the mortgage and once they realized it, they reopened my settlement offer file. They came back less than 36 hours later with a counter offer at 10% at $3,851 (I offered ~5% - $2,000). I was willing to pay up to 4K to settle this 2nd mortgage with OCWEN. This was the their only counter offer, albeit they said it was their Final, the 2 previous times they wouldn't even submit the 2K offer I proposed. I am honestly excited about this offer and potentially being done with this chapter of my life. Do you think this is a acceptable counter or should I potentially counter their counter?
I say take it & get on with life. Wonder how they came up with such an odd number. Though I might would consider doing a counter with the explanation being I don't have that much money.
.