Realtime Resolution - sent us a 10% Payoff Settlement - What to do?

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American_Dream

RTR_Loans
Feb 2, 2014
14
0
1
Virginia
We live in Virginia and this is about our 20% mortgage (about 100k initially):

Bullet-point Highlights:

  • We stopped paying as there was no out for the situation we were in and due to financial difficulties as of Jan. 2012. The loan servicer initially was American Brokers Conduit/ AHM and the last investor we knew of was Deutsche Bank.
  • AHM went bankrupt in 2007. When we stopped paying in 2012, the servicer was AHMSi (now called Homeward residential) who transferred the loan to RTR in 2012.
  • Real Time Resolutions (RTR) offered to settle for 20% in 2012 which we rejected and counter offered 10% which they didn’t accept.
  • This week, we received a 10% offer with the below:
    • A 10% amount in certified funds along with the signed letter by the borrower will be accepted as a FULL SETTLEMENT on the loan.
    • There is a 16 line sentence full of legal jargon which sounds like the borrower hereby releases 'RTR' and any/all of its affiliates of from any and all liabilities, claims, causes of action, losses, etc… as per this agreement. Underneath this paragraph, there is the borrowers (myself and wife) Name with signature space, date and 'SSN'. I know we probably need to consult an attorney in this (see attached document).

Questions:
  1. What kind of attorney do we need? What is the overall cost estimates in the attorney fees (if anyone of you out there knows)?
  2. We checked with MERS and found out that only the 80% is showing as both the servicer and investor. So how do we find out if either the now defunct AHM or Homeward or RTR still are the legal servicer and notes/lien holders? Would paying off the 10% free us of the mortgage liability from 20% loan? If the advice is to go ahead and pay the 10% settlement offer, what should we request from RTR?
  3. If the advice is a settlement with RTR, can we negotiate to have them work with Homewards to remove/update the derogatory reporting on our credit record?

Note: Currently, the Credit Report shows as follows:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Homewards Residential:
Condition: Derogatory, Balance: $0, Type: Second mortgage/ Real estate mortgage ,Pay Status: Collection/Charge-off
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Real Time Resolution:
Condition: Open , Balance: about 100k, Type: Real estate mortgage, Pay Status: Late 180 Days

Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
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American_Dream

RTR_Loans
Feb 2, 2014
14
0
1
Virginia
I read somewhere, in dealing with RTR, " contact them to check to see if the 2nd mortgage was used as purchase money and if it falls under Anti-deficiency law then depending on their answer try to settle or just wait for it to fall off your credit.
So my additional question(s):
1. What is "purchase money" and how do I get the information without contacting RTR (they definitely won't give out any information that would serve against their interest)?
2. How can I know if my case falls under 'Anti-Deficiency' law?
 

driftwood

LoanSafe Member
Sep 17, 2012
315
38
28
Whether or not a purchase money loan is recourse or not i.e. falls under anti-deficiency laws, is specific to which state where the property is located not dependent on the lender/servicer. I dont know nearly anything about Virginia. I live in California and here a purchase money loan is non-recourse meaning the lender or servicer can only FC they cannot sue the borrower for any deficiency. Purchase money loan is defined as a loan used to acquire the property so if the loan was ever refinanced or taken out after purchased its likely not purchase money.

If I were in your situation I would check Virginia laws to understand if something similar applies and if it does apply then I am pretty sure I wouldn't settle for 10%. I would offer them much less if anything. But its really up to you and what tolerance you have for this sort of situation.
 

American_Dream

RTR_Loans
Feb 2, 2014
14
0
1
Virginia
Thanks driftwood - I read the ' Strategy for Settling Your 2nd' and I guess it suggests that in my case I try to work out with the lender/service r (in my case Homewards residential) and not the collector (in my case Realtime Resolutions). When I called in 2012/13 Homeward suggested I contact RTR and deal with them as my account with them is no more (i.e. discharged and closed).
Any thoughts?
Besides - any suggestions regarding my specific questions?
Thanks for taking time to respond.
 

driftwood

LoanSafe Member
Sep 17, 2012
315
38
28
I went back and re-read your first post with questions and realized you didn't include numbers (home value, loan balances) so it was presumptuous on my part to reference the strategy for settling your 2nd. That strategy assumes you have an underwater 2nd which from what you posted I can't tell.

I can offer my opinion on your questions but there are more experienced folks around here who can probably provide better advice. Number 1 I think an attorney that specializes in real estate would be your best bet but not sure. Then again from my perspective not sure how much they really help versus what it will cost you. Question number 2: in reading the attachment, assuming the loan number and property address are correct and reference your 2nd then I would say yes, paying the 10% will settle the account. That is my opinion of course. Whether you take the offer or not is obviously your call, though I would prefer the offer said something about releasing the property lien after the 10% payment is made. They do a nice job of covering themselves from any current or future lawsuits with the legal disclosure but say nothing about releasing the lien. Then again I haven't seen many of these documents so it could be standard information that is included. Question number 3 you could try but from what I have read most lenders will not negotiate credit reporting. Then again the worst they could say is no, I would give it a try.
 
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American_Dream

RTR_Loans
Feb 2, 2014
14
0
1
Virginia
Thanks driftwood - my follow-up to your advises to my questions.
To #1 - I hope other folks with 'Real Estate Attorney' experience in this forum will share their experiences in terms of success and cost.

TO#2 -Yes the Loan# and property Address are correct - but key question here is Given that (a) -RTR is just a collection agency, (b) neither RTR nor any of the Servicers of the 2nd Mortgage prior to it are showing up in MERS (Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems), RTR may not hold the notes/lien on the mortgage, agreeing to pay 10% of the loan in my 'uninformed opinion' would ONLY help us get the credit reporting problem resolved. I guess what remains is: How can we certainly know who owns our 20% legally? Once that fact is established, would it not be wiser to deal with the legal owner of the lien instead? I guess the above are still unanswered Qs on my initial question #2.

To #3 - The only follow-up I have is you are treating RTR as a lender. However, per their own disclaimer, several insider postings online, RTR is such a company that buys defaulted mortgage loans a few pennies to a dollar and try to squeeze out as much as possible from borrowers such as myself. Question remains, If the advice is go ahead and try to settle, on what terms? My takeaway from your response is the actual lenders do not negotiate on credit reporting, but trying never hurts. I would like to hear specific experience from other forum participants on this issue.

Again, Thanks for taking time to address my questions:
 

American_Dream

RTR_Loans
Feb 2, 2014
14
0
1
Virginia
I went back and re-read your first post with questions and realized you didn't include numbers (home value, loan balances) so it was presumptuous on my part to reference the strategy for settling your 2nd. That strategy assumes you have an underwater 2nd which from what you posted I can't tell.
y.
I do still have a significant amount (at least about 60k) under water with both 1st and 2nd loans combined.
 

TomEason

LoanSafe Guide
Jun 18, 2009
12,390
84
48
SF Bay Area CA
American_Dream

Thanks for your posts.

To get the ID of your loan's owner / investor, you might send a QWR to loan servicer RTR.

While RTR may be a junk debt buyer, the fact remains that they very well could be the owner of your 2nd.
 

American_Dream

RTR_Loans
Feb 2, 2014
14
0
1
Virginia
American_Dream

To get the ID of your loan's owner / investor, you might send a QWR to loan servicer RTR.
What do you mean by send a QWR? Plus they are not the loan Servicer - I asked this question to customer service people I talked to, they repeatedly say - we are only debt collectors - they even read out the 'disclaimer' as soon as they answer the phone or I answer the phone depending on who initiated the call.

Thanks,
 

TomEason

LoanSafe Guide
Jun 18, 2009
12,390
84
48
SF Bay Area CA
What do you mean by send a QWR? Plus they are not the loan Servicer - I asked this question to customer service people I talked to, they repeatedly say - we are only debt collectors - they even read out the 'disclaimer' as soon as they answer the phone or I answer the phone depending on who initiated the call.

Thanks,
I recommend you Google QWR to get a definition. If RTR is only a debt collector (CA), you might ask them whom the loan servicer is.
 

American_Dream

RTR_Loans
Feb 2, 2014
14
0
1
Virginia
Thanks TomEson - So if I found out they are not the servicer through QWR or other means (i.e. that they are only collector) - I guess your advises reads to me not to do a settlement (if settlement is what I would like to do). But if they are I can go ahead and negotiate with them on terms and amount. Is that What you are saying? Also, I guess Servicer is just one side of the equation in mortgage, how about the Investor? How do I know who the investor is? I guess the investor would be the actual lien holder, right?
In any cases, on the Mortgage Electronic Registration Systems (MERS) - the 20% doesn't show up whereas the 80% shows up with both the servicer and the investor. Any thoughts?
 

TomEason

LoanSafe Guide
Jun 18, 2009
12,390
84
48
SF Bay Area CA
American_Dream

Thanks for your post.

It's OK to conduct settlement negotiations with either the CA or the loan servicer.

FYI the owner of the loan (the investor) never engages in settlement negotiations.
 

American_Dream

RTR_Loans
Feb 2, 2014
14
0
1
Virginia
Thanks ThoMason.
Update: Through a friend I got the records from Title co. & learned that only the 20% lender shows as alien holder while MEDS shows the current lender as lien holder.
If there are folks out there with advice how to deal with this type of scenario, any advice is welcome.
In the meantime i'll try to find out the best course of action through a friend who is in Real Estate business...interested folks stay tuned for updates on my side....
 

American_Dream

RTR_Loans
Feb 2, 2014
14
0
1
Virginia
Quick update: Based on additional information obtained, RTR is indeed the servicer and Deutsche Bank the Investor.
Now, we can work with RTR to settle with no doubt in mind that they are legit....
 

American_Dream

RTR_Loans
Feb 2, 2014
14
0
1
Virginia
We are planning to negotiate and counteroffer RTR with the below:

Based on a review of sample payoff settlement letters from RTR online, we are planning to send the below language to RTR to be included in the settlement payoff letter that we can sign and have this behind us.

Your offer of $XXXXX in certified funds, along with this letter, signed by you (and any applicable co-borrower) will be accepted as Full Settlement to release the lien and debt associated with the above reference loan with no recourse by either yourself or Real Time Resolution, Inc. The funds must be received in the office by mm/dd/yyyy.

Few question(s):
(1) - Are we covered completely, or is there something critical we need to include? I guess we will be covered as below:
- release the lien - the only lien holder will remain the 80%
- no recourse - they can not come to us with deficiency judgement
*** Anything missing?***

(2) – Is it appropriate to expand on the above language in the counter-offer letter to require RTR to have a commitment to send a specific update ‘e.g. Paid in Full or Paid as agreed or so…’ in the settlement letter? If what can we do about the credit record and how do we go about it?

(3) - The company that sold/transferred the mortgage to RTR has ‘derogatory’ record on our credit history. What can we do about it?
Is this something what we can ask RTR to work with HOMEWARDRES to make updates to our records? If so, what should it be?

Even though the question I'm posing is to all with the knowledge and experience...TomEason I think your advice is also appreciated.

Thanks,

Once I get the feedback and settle - I'll come and share the success story!
 

TomEason

LoanSafe Guide
Jun 18, 2009
12,390
84
48
SF Bay Area CA
AmericanDream

Thanks for your post.

Answers to your questions:

(1) Looks fine to me.

(2) I know of no lenders who will "credit bargain." You can include language in your counteroffer but the lender will likely disregard your request on how to report to the CRAs. See # 3 below for info on what you can do to clean up your credit.

(3) Per the provisions of the FCRA, they can legally report the derog for as long as 7.5 years from the date of first delinquency (first 30-day late). Even so it can't hurt for you to send that entity a letter demanding they correct / remove the derog.
 

American_Dream

RTR_Loans
Feb 2, 2014
14
0
1
Virginia
Quick Update on our case:


  • We counter-offered RTR less than what they wanted (10%)
  • The deadline of their initial offer is past and we have not heard back from them.As for now, there is no rush on our end but if they rethink and accept our offer, we would settle.

To recap what was discussed in this thread step by step:

1. We go offer to settle for 10% from RTR, what to do? there is a more detailed step by step guide: Strategy for Settling Your 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Loan

2. On our case - we wanted to first establish that RTR is the current/real lien/holder, this was done through a friend/Realtor - but anyone can also do it online at MERS (MERS® ServicerID is a free service that provides information on the current servicer and investor (owner of the note) for loans registered on the MERS® System. Check it here

you can check your information through either one of the three:

  • 18-digit Mortgage Identification Number (MIN)
  • Property address/Borrower Details
  • FHA/VA/MI Certificate

3. Once it was established that RTR is showing up as Servicer - it was left up to us to settle/not to settle. The following questions need to be answered:What needs to be in the settlement language? How much should we counter-offer? We tried to solicit information from people with experience and in this forum.

As indicated above, currently it is a wait and see status with no rush - we will update this thread as we see any progress.

Once there is a settlement (i.e. Payoff), there will be a IRS 1099 C (debt forgiveness) that is issued by the creditor and reported to IRS by the same. For this topic, we have created a new thread. check it at: Dealing with potential Income TAX (IRS 1099-C) due to Short Payoff

So far there are more readers than contributors to that thread but If you are one of the members with information, please go ahead and share as the information will be vital for the coming years as the 'Debt Forgiveness Act' expired on Dec 31, 2013.
 
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BigRedGreg

LoanSafe Member
Jan 13, 2014
1
0
1
American_Dream

Thanks for your posts.

To get the ID of your loan's owner / investor, you might send a QWR to loan servicer RTR.

While RTR may be a junk debt buyer, the fact remains that they very well could be the owner of your 2nd.
TomEason, you are completel
American_Dream

Thanks for your posts.

To get the ID of your loan's owner / investor, you might send a QWR to loan servicer RTR.

While RTR may be a junk debt buyer, the fact remains that they very well could be the owner of your 2nd.
Tom Eason,

First off...You are the Man!!! I have been following your "How to renegotiate your 2nd..." for 5 years now and I think I am finally getting Real Time Resolution to start to come to the table. I could use a bit of advice on my deal though if you are able.

The reason I need some advice is that I think I have probably set a record for the longest time for getting them to pay attention to me. And now that I finally got them to pay attention to me they promptly started to ignore me again.

Anyhow, I had a 1st and a 2nd with Countrywide. The 1st was for about $600K originally and the 2nd was for about $60K. It was a 90% and 10% set of loans. Well, things got ugly and I stopped paying both in 2007. The first was at about $510K or so at that time and the 2nd still at $60k (interest only). We wanted to stay in the house so I worked with Countrywide and eventually got the 1st caught back up and completely ignored the 2nd. I filed a Ch7 in 2009 and rejected both mortgages but continued to pay the first. I have not paid on the second since 2007.

Anyhow, after my Bk, Countrywide got bought by Bank of America and they sold off the 2nd to Real Time Resolutions. (As a side note, even though I had rejected the mortgages, RTR ran my credit on the 2nd, I wrote a nasty letter about Fair Credit, etc. and they ignored it). For about two years they called and called and I finally got them to stop calling but they continued to send letters. I finally found your post about how to negotiate a settlement and followed the steps. When I would make the call I would offer about 4% ($2,500) and they would insist that before they could enter into any settlement negotiation I would have to fill out a massive personal financial disclosure form and I would refuse to meet their demand. And every time they would say "it is required by federal law" and I would tell them "okay, I'll just pass" and they would do nothing. Well, the last time they made a call...they asked if I wanted to settle! I was excited! Well...I got the letter today and the offer was for a little more than $38K. It was dated 2 weeks ago so I figured it was okay to call, which I did and I offered them $3,000 (still less than my goal). Well, the guy who answers the phone starts on the whole "you have to fill out a personal financial disclosure required by federal law..." so I told him that I would pass. My question is, what is the next step? He's just the guy answering the phone so I assume he's not authorized to do anything. Do I just sit tight and wait for another call or letter? Will they eventually get reasonable? The mortgage is now with NationStar and I owe $450K on my house and I figure its worth about $300K in today's market. Any advice is welcome. Thank you.

BigRedGreg
 

citi_heloc

LoanSafe Member
Jun 28, 2013
7
0
1
I have been keeping an eye on this thread since after not paying the Citi 2nd for several months (and failed settlement efforts with Citi), the account was finally transferred over to RTR for collection efforts. The property is located in Florida and has equity. After speaking with RTR I went ahead and submitted the personal info & financials with a settlement offer of around 7%. They declined and came back with 65% counter offer. I told them there is no way, I can do it but i raised my offer to 15%. They again called and said it was not possible since the property in question has equity. I told the rep that this is the absolute best I can do and it was a take it or leave it situation. Couple of weeks went by and yesterday they called me back and to my surprise told me that Citi has approved my offer. Today, I received the offer in writing and now I have 30 days to wire the funds and execute the contract. Here is the write up on the letter, has anyone see one before? should i be concerned with any part of the verbiage since it does not talk about lien release?

Your offer of $$$$ will be accepted as a Full Settlement on the lien associated with the above referenced loan with no recourse from Real Time Resolutions, Inc. ("RTR"). Moreover, RTR will, upon receiving the consideration outlined above and a signed copy of this letter, agree that it shall not pursue the remaining balance of $$$$. However, RTR reserves the right to pursue loan contract or tort claims associated with the origination or purchase of the above referenced loan or property or with settlement, such as fraud, negligence, perjury or any other claims.

Certified funds must be received in this office within 30 days from the date of this letter. If after deposit the funds are rejected, rescinded, or
otherwise invalidated, this settlement agreement will automatically be voided and the entire outstanding balance will remain due.

Once this is set and done, my next worry will be the 1009-C of over a 100.... but that is a separate topic... LOL
Thanks for all the information this site has provided and gave me the courage to take this bold step.