My HSBC 2nd mortgage negotiations round 3

DaveFred

LoanSafe Member
Apr 1, 2009
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I thought I would start a new thread to help me journal my on going negotiations and status.
My story started about 14 months ago when we were behind on both my first with Citi mortgage and HSBC our second mortgage. We were successful in getting a permanent loan mod with Citi by going thru the Citi Executive team listed her on the forums. There mod was pretty much just a reduction in interest rate from 7 3/8 fixed down to 5.5% fixed. If I had it to do over again I would have held out for a little better rate but at the time it seemed OK.
HSBC was much more difficult to work with and like most just offered a temp 6 mos hardship mod and told us they would consider a permanent mod if we made all payments on time. In Nov of 2009 they without notice ended our temp hardship mod and without notice but after many conversations and after re submitting all new financial information they finally agreed to a 2nd 6 mos temp hardship mod. We told them that this was a band aid on on cancer but went along with it for the time being. Well here we are now with 3 mos left on the second mod and after looking at our situation we have decided that this is just not going to work. We have managed to pay all our bills except there is nothing left to pay for my self employment quarterly taxes and we owe for the whole year of 2009. So after much consideration we have decided to just stop paying HSBC altogether and try to force there hand into a true loan mod with serious principal reduction or just settle with them some time in the future for as little as possible if we ever can. We owe 116k on out first and 106k to HSBC our best guess is our home is which appraised for $330k in 2006 is now only worth about 115k base on the fact that the house next door that just sold at auction for $120k and it is 30% larger than ours and in about the same condition. We are no longer interested in any temp or short term solution its an all or nothing situation. We are prepared to wait it out and will keep the 1st current until the second takes action. we have no illusions that its going to be anything but an uphill fight and in the end if we can not get what we want than we are prepared to walk and then file BK if necessary. I know that some think that filling BK first would be a better way but we are just not there yet and want to use that as a major card in our negotiations. So here we go round three of David vs Goliath.

Oh ya my real name is David
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DaveFred

LoanSafe Member
Apr 1, 2009
268
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Odd thing is I am now 23 days late on my second with HSBC and I have not heard a peep. I did send a generic note from there website to the hardship department stating I could not make my hardship payments any longer. In tha past they are have started calling as soon as I was 10 days ( the grace period) late.
Maybe they are just so inundated with collections now that they just havent gotten to me. I must be sick but I am actually looking forward to getting the ball rolling and starting the negotiations. I know the first few calls will likely be just be from there collections robots and am going to refuse to talk to anyone but there loss mitigation's or hardship department. I figure they won't get serious until I am 30-60 days past due.
I will post an update when they call.
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troubleinriverside

LoanSafe Member
Nov 30, 2008
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Odd thing is I am now 23 days late on my second with HSBC and I have not heard a peep. I did send a generic note from there website to the hardship department stating I could not make my hardship payments any longer. In tha past they are have started calling as soon as I was 10 days ( the grace period) late.
Maybe they are just so inundated with collections now that they just havent gotten to me. I must be sick but I am actually looking forward to getting the ball rolling and starting the negotiations. I know the first few calls will likely be just be from there collections robots and am going to refuse to talk to anyone but there loss mitigation's or hardship department. I figure they won't get serious until I am 30-60 days past due.
I will post an update when they call.
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Yes, I have been consistantly 10+ late the last several months. I am due on the 10th, they started calling yesterday, and actually i could report them as I am in active Ch-7, and its against the law for them to call me. My 341 meeting is 3/8, and I plan to stop paying soon after that. I'll keep my eye on you and also report my progress.
 

DaveFred

LoanSafe Member
Apr 1, 2009
268
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Socialist Republic of California
Update:

8:30 am the phone rings, Its HSBC on the line.
I say hello and the person asks if they are speaking to MR so and so and I reply yes how may I help you. the person than goes in to the usual this call may be monitored or recorded yada yada yada. Then He says I am calling to see if you can make a payment today to bring your account current. I say no and he says well when do you think you can. I say as soon as you give me a permanent loan mod with principal reduction that is affordable. Silence then Um you are already on a temp hardship and that is all we can do. I say well unless you in the loan Modification or mitigation department we have nothing to talk about. He says well I will note your account and you need to call 1 800-340-7505 and talk to the hardship department. I say ok, Bye

After a little while passes I decide what he heck I will call the number he gave me and a nice lady answers and goes through the same old usual Speel and then says How may I help you. I say well I say told I needed to call you and explained my situation. She says well there is nothing she can do at this time because I am already on a temp hardship mod and that's all they have to offer. I said well that's the problem and its unacceptable. She says well what would you like us to do. I sad well the way I see it is you can either do a permanent loan mod with at least a 60% principal reduction and affordable terms or offer us a settlement but we don't really have much if anything to offer at this time or you can try to foreclose on the note but its upside down and we have less equity in the property than we owe on the first so it makes no economic sense for you to do that nor does it make any sense for us to pay another dime on a loosing asset. She is silent for a few seconds and says, I see well then its up to you. I will just make notes and she said its up to us to make the next move. I said well actually no its sorta up to you we are done playing games and our decision is to just wait for an offer and if we don't like it file BK and move on. OK bye click
 

troubleinriverside

LoanSafe Member
Nov 30, 2008
773
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Great post. I cant wait for them to call me post BK, and then when they ask when i'll be paying, I'll say well, dont you know i dont owe you anything, the loan was discharged. love to see their face on the other end of that one
 

DaveFred

LoanSafe Member
Apr 1, 2009
268
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Socialist Republic of California
I don't have any new updates but I have been searching the forums here and elsewhere an and have found it very difficult to find much information about HSBC. I get this uneasy feeling that those of us that have Mortgages with HSBC are just bastard step children of the industry. No one really knows or has much information on our parents.
I would welcome any input or information on success or failures in dealing with HSBC. I am really at a loss as to the best or most logical way to proceed. I get this uneasy feeling that in the end our only solution will end up being to file BK and walk away. I have yet to find one story about anyone successfully dealing with HSBC other than temp mods and one widower getting a mod.
Dave
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donnac

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Mar 18, 2009
282
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My second mortgage is with Benifical which became I think HSBC, i Believe. When they call you what number usually comes up on your caller id? How far behind are you with them and whats your interest rate? Thanks Donna
 

troubleinriverside

LoanSafe Member
Nov 30, 2008
773
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They call from (800) 395-3489

9 days until my 341, and I'm 16 days late on the 2nd. was planning on paying it next week.

interesting thing though. Yesterday i get a call from HSBC (2nd), a nice lady from India inquires about my payment. I inform her she should not be calling me since i filed BK. she asked if i was keeping the house. I said yes. she says there is nothing in the computer that tells her I filed BK, but she would note the account,but they will not consider it official, unless i fax them a notice.

In retrospect, I should have shut my mouth, and not told her, then waited until after discharge. that way, should I decide to stop paying prior to discharge, they would not move to lift the stay, or try to foreclose, not even sure they would with the house underwater. But I dont want to chance it and alert the UST.

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DaveFred

LoanSafe Member
Apr 1, 2009
268
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Socialist Republic of California
My second mortgage is with Benifical which became I think HSBC, i Believe. When they call you what number usually comes up on your caller id? How far behind are you with them and whats your interest rate? Thanks Donna
Ours was actually with Benifical also, now HSBC.
Our caller ID says unlisted or unavailable.
We are as of 3/1/10 30 days late on out hardship payments that started in April of 09. technically the way I understand it is that report it as late of in special payment status while on the temp plan. Our original loan was at 9.25% (criminal). Our temp hardship rate is 5.25% but resets tot the original in 3 mos.
We have repeatedly told them that we are no longer interested in any additional temp plan that includes any forbearance or balloon payments at the end. The only permanent solution would have to include at least 5 yrs interest free and a modest step up afterwords plus some form of significant principal reduction or a debt settlement offer of around 10% to release the lean. I have little hope of a true Loan mod with principal reduction but I leave it on the table just in case. I believe we will end up a either in a settlement or we will file BK and walk away in the end.
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troubleinriverside

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Nov 30, 2008
773
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My balance is $241k on an Interest Only HELOC that is currently 3.5% thanks to mr. Bernanke keeping the rates low, so the payment is $750 a month. But I know its a ticking time bomb in the future as soon as rates start to rise

originally it was with Greenpoint, and I had a broker who would call me every few months as the rates dropped, and do a 0 cost Refi to a lower rate. This last one closed literally 1 week before the bottom dropped out in the summer of 2007, and my income was higher and i still had 30% equity. Since then its been a steep drop down, this area has probably dropped 60-70% from the peak
 

DaveFred

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Apr 1, 2009
268
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8:00 am sharp the phone rings. Wife answers and its a robo call from HSBC. Wife says no we are not going to make any payments today and my husband has been in contact with your hardship/Loan Mod dept. She asks is your husband there yes. She hads me the phone and I get the same old robo speel abut our account being past due and can I make payment today. I listen patiently and then say to the lady who has a foreign accent, " ARE YOU DEAF or just Stupid", Silence then what do you mean. I say look I have told you and so has my wife we are not making any further payments until we get a permanent affordable loan mod that addresses our negative equity or a settlement offer we can afford. Please pass this on to your loss mitigation's or loan mod people and have a nice day, CLick
I probably have a snowballs chance in heck of getting what I want but I will be dammed if I will pay these sharks another dime until they make me an offer that makes economic sense or I will just walk away.
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troubleinriverside

LoanSafe Member
Nov 30, 2008
773
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Funny. I called and made a phone payment today, some woman in india. killed me to do it, but i'll be 30 days late on the 10th. The still don't know i'm in BK, dumb azzes. 1 more payment and I stop. i just dont want them to creat problems and delay my discharge. after that, when the call, surprise, suprise, sorry, I dont owe you anything, i discharged your debt in BK.........now what are you gonna do ?? your loan is underwater, and your only recourse is to foreclose..........we shall see.
 

Garry

LoanSafe Member
Aug 7, 2009
3,978
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Funny. I called and made a phone payment today, some woman in india. killed me to do it, but i'll be 30 days late on the 10th. The still don't know i'm in BK, dumb azzes. 1 more payment and I stop. i just dont want them to creat problems and delay my discharge. after that, when the call, surprise, suprise, sorry, I dont owe you anything, i discharged your debt in BK.........now what are you gonna do ?? your loan is underwater, and your only recourse is to foreclose..........we shall see.
Dude, I just realized it's been about a year since I paid on my second, time flies. Not with your bank though.
 

vscard77

LoanSafe Member
Mar 5, 2010
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I first apply the loan modification with HSBC on 10/2009. I called them once every week to know the status, as first they said they need to confirmed my residency then i fax them the utility bills and then around december they said they are waiting for BPO. January they said they need to get a second 'BPO' I asked them why, they didn't answer! then I waited until feb then they said it "still reviewing"! then last week I called them again, they said I got declined! Because it expired the 90days! I said "What" . They said they only way is to reapply! I said it not my false at all, you guys just wasted my time! Then today, again I need to fax all the documents again! so stressful!! And they keep asking me when I can make the payment!!! Oh my god, such a headache!!! Help me!!!! I need my loan to be modified ... how long does that take??? One month or 6 months!!!!
 

DaveFred

LoanSafe Member
Apr 1, 2009
268
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Socialist Republic of California
Welcome to the wonderful world of HSBC. You are basicaly dealing with a company that no longer exists accept as a collection agency. They closed all of there consumer offices last year and only have a hand full of administrative offices left in the US. they are owned a large European bank and there only job in the US is to service existing accounts and collect as much money as they can. In other words they ran for the hills when the market went south and have little incentive to do anything to help us out.
As far as I know I have only read of one single case where they ever offered a permanent loan mod to anyone. That case was a widower who lost her husband and was on a fixed income. Thye will usually offer offer only 6 mos at a time hard ship plans with interest reductions but you must re apply every 6 mos and start all over. I have been told that they will do that for a maximum of 3 times or 18 mos total. There attitude seems to be they think they can just wait out the bad economy and all will be fine.
I got tired of the games and decided to just call there bluff and stop paying altogether and refuse to accept anything less than a permanent solution or wait for a settlement offer. In my case they have nothing to gain by attempting a foreclosure and because I am underwater by more than I owe on my first and they would have no equity to come ofter. In short they have an unsecured 2nd mortgage that is worthless.
Good luck and keep up the fight, If enough of us just say no maybe they will eventually wake up and smell the coffee.
Dave
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Believe

LoanSafe Member
Feb 2, 2009
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vscard77, you are either a troll, or one lucky SOB. None of what you described even remotely resembles my experiences with HSBC over the past 2 1/2 years that I have been trying to get a modification from them. And I've got volumes of useless paperwork and spreadsheets documenting hundreds of harassing phone calls. They've never mentioned a BPO, utility bill, or 90-day deadline for anything. What DaveFred has described is accurate to my knowledge.

If in fact HSBC did order a BPO and ask for a utility bill, please give us more information. Otherwise, find someplace else to share your newfound knowledge.
 

unknown

LoanSafe Member
Mar 7, 2010
1
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0
Dave - I am in the same situation with HFC (HSBC) I am behind by three months and they are not working with us and have denied modification 5 times. I am wondering if they have threatened foreclosure yet? When did you stop paying? Jan? I am scared to go down this road and am curious what tactics they have used so far with you?
Thanks your insight is very valuable.

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troubleinriverside

LoanSafe Member
Nov 30, 2008
773
18
18
Dave - I am in the same situation with HFC (HSBC) I am behind by three months and they are not working with us and have denied modification 5 times. I am wondering if they have threatened foreclosure yet? When did you stop paying? Jan? I am scared to go down this road and am curious what tactics they have used so far with you?
Thanks your insight is very valuable.

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Hi,

Is this on your 1st or 2nd Mortgage ?? is your house underwater ??
 

DaveFred

LoanSafe Member
Apr 1, 2009
268
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Socialist Republic of California
Dave - I am in the same situation with HFC (HSBC) I am behind by three months and they are not working with us and have denied modification 5 times. I am wondering if they have threatened foreclosure yet? When did you stop paying? Jan? I am scared to go down this road and am curious what tactics they have used so far with you?
Thanks your insight is very valuable.

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[/QUOTE]

The only tactic that they seem to no is to apply for a temporary hardship program. So fare they flatly refuse to even discuss any permanent mods or solutions. They just call and ask the same old questions (robo calls as we call them).
My advise is it you are not serious about calling there bluff and truly willing to walk away then don't expect any help. These guys have so far shown no willingness to assist us in any meaningful long term solutions. If you are like me and willing to wait them out till charge off and then hope for a settlement then there is a glimmer of hope, but it will be a long tuff fight.

P.S. Update:

I got another Robo call this morning . Same old song and dance. This time they put me on hold and pretended to talk to a supervisor to see if there was anything they might be able to do. OF course it was just more smoke and mirrors " If you make a payment today we will review your account again for a better solution. Ya right Click