Loan Modification without my knowledge, quit claim deed issues, divorced, need some help!

Evan Bedard

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Aug 26, 2007
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Thanks for responding! I am on the loan and I have told/ask US Bank to take my name off loan, etc. all the representatives tell me that the deed is the reason my signature wasn't needed.
How will the courts eat me alive? It seems like it would be a straight forward case, no?

Any other insight/ advice?

what do you think a lawyer would charge me for this type of case?
Hello Samantha,

Just my 2 cents, but it would cost you thousands of dollars to hire an attorney and take your case to court. What exactly would be your case standing?

The fact is that in today's housing markets it's extremely difficult to remove a borrower from a mortgage unless there's sufficient equity in the property. There are really only three ways to remove your name from the account - a refinance, assumption or just to sell the property outright.

I'm assuming the reason he was unable to refi was due to being underwater? And many mortgage products nowadays prohibit assumptions. IMO it was probably best for both parties that he completed the loan modification. If your credit score took a hit he was likely behind on payment and in danger of foreclosure, which if that occurred would have taken a major tole on your credit and prevented you from financing your own home for years down the line. I recommend you do as Jeffrey suggested, "start with the ex and then get the bank to take you off. You need to tell the bank they need your signature for the modification and they don't have one."
 

Sammcandrews

LoanSafe Member
Mar 1, 2014
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Loan modification

Thanks for responding. I HAVE asked/told US Bank to take my name off loan, but they won't without a assumption or refinance. The loan is $230,000 and the house is worth at least $600,000-800,000. I have requested 3 times and received the loan assumption pacer for him to fill out, but he just sits on it and doesn't do it!

What do you think?

thanks,
Samantha

Hello Samantha,

Just my 2 cents, but it would cost you thousands of dollars to hire an attorney and take your case to court. What exactly would be your case standing?

The fact is that in today's housing markets it's extremely difficult to remove a borrower from a mortgage unless there's sufficient equity in the property. There are really only three ways to remove your name from the account - a refinance, assumption or just to sell the property outright.

I'm assuming the reason he was unable to refi was due to being underwater? And many mortgage products nowadays prohibit assumptions. IMO it was probably best for both parties that he completed the loan modification. If your credit score took a hit he was likely behind on payment and in danger of foreclosure, which if that occurred would have taken a major tole on your credit and prevented you from financing your own home for years down the line. I recommend you do as Jeffrey suggested, "start with the ex and then get the bank to take you off. You need to tell the bank they need your signature for the modification and they don't have one."
 

Heatherrdh

LoanSafe Member
May 18, 2014
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Wells Fargo did a loan modification on a loan with my ex husband witout my consent. I got a copy of the paper work and sure enough my name is on there but no initials or my signature. I was told by my ex that I needed to do a quit claim deed to remove myself before wells fargo would even attempt anything. I was told he was refinancing. How can Wells Fargo do this? They added $15,000 to the loan when they modified it which added to MY debt. He also quit paying on it in order to qualify for the loan mod but this dinged my credit too. They refuse to take my name off. I have been divorced for 2 1/2 yrs and can't get loans because of this. I have read many posts of banks doing this.....it needs to stop.
 

Jeffrey L. Shurtliff

LoanSafe Member
Dec 4, 2010
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Wells Fargo did a loan modification on a loan with my ex husband witout my consent. I got a copy of the paper work and sure enough my name is on there but no initials or my signature. I was told by my ex that I needed to do a quit claim deed to remove myself before wells fargo would even attempt anything. I was told he was refinancing. How can Wells Fargo do this? They added $15,000 to the loan when they modified it which added to MY debt. He also quit paying on it in order to qualify for the loan mod but this dinged my credit too. They refuse to take my name off. I have been divorced for 2 1/2 yrs and can't get loans because of this. I have read many posts of banks doing this.....it needs to stop.
The language in your divorce decree determines, what legally can be done with the house. If there is no specific language about the house then your ex is legally fine. If your ex is in contempt of the divorce decree, then you should take your ex to court for contempt.
 

Danielle

LoanSafe Member
Apr 26, 2012
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It is interesting to read this thread, and infuriating, I must admit. I was the original post on here with the same sort of situations as many have detailed after. Now fast forward a couple of years and the house has gone through foreclosure. I contacted Wells Fargo multiple times and gave them my contact information multiple times. I requested copies of the paperwork more than a year ago, and I never received anything. My ex doesn't care about his credit, which is likely trashed, but oddly enough, my score remained decent enough. Over the last year, though the account with WF shows quite prominently on my credit report, my score climbed to about 747. I requested that all three credit agencies add a 100 word personal statement to my report, which was a huge pain to say the least, and to my knowledge they did. I have no idea why my credit score is so high only a year or so after the foreclosure, but I'm not complaining. I sympathize deeply with all that posted here. Attorneys are so quick to tell you that the loan modifications are in your favor, but the point is, I believe, your rights are being violated. The loan mods did NOTHING for me and nothing for my ex. It was inevitable that he was going into foreclosure. My biggest piece of advice after going through this myself would be to NEVER SIGN A QUIT CLAIM DEED. It puts you entirely at a disadvantage with the mortgage company. No matter what your attorney says, don't sign it. You want to be in control of what happens to the mortgage. If I had not signed a quit claim deed, as soon as payments were missed I would have been notified. I could have made arrangements with my ex to move into the house, move him out, and I could have assumed the payments in order to save BOTH of our credits. I realize his is not always an option for everyone, but it's what I would have done. I am now happily remarried and my husband and I want to buy a house. Even though my credit score is high, I am having to provide copies of my divorce decree to the lender, and an entire payment history of the loan with my ex and I. Needless to say, this has been painful. If it was difficult to get foreclosure paperwork, it is equally as difficult to get an entire loan history of a closed loan. This should NOT be difficult, but EVERYTHING with WF is difficult. I have waited over 3 weeks and still have not received anything as promised. Finally I got partial history from my local WF branch, but it isn't what I requested. I have gone round and round with them once again to get them to provide me information on MY loan, and they have not done what I asked. Now I am asking for mercy from my new lender to accept the partial payment history with my credit report and divorce decree as sufficient to prove that while I was legally responsible for the loan, according to divorce court, the payments were on time. Luckily my husbands credit is excellent as well. We have yet to receive a pre-approval for a home loan from this other lender, but I am hopeful. Again, my biggest piece of advice would be to never sign a quit claim deed, and ALWAYS GET COPIES OF THE PAPERWORK. Without proof that you were not responsible for the missed payments, you are absolutely screwed. Banks will not accept a divorce decree or your credit history as enough. They want the actual paper trail from the bank. Again, I feel for everyone on here. Be VERY wary of advice you receive from attorneys and people that claim to have your best interest in mind. Do NOT release your interest in the home by signing a quit claim deed. That is the worst thing you can do. You have no power if you do this. If at all possible, force a sale of the home. Even if you end up paying out of pocket because you are upside down on the loan, do it anyways because that is still far better than allowing your ex to foreclose and you have no control over the situation. Best wishes to everyone here. Please feel free to ask me anything about my personal experience. I think what the banks are doing is WRONG, I don't care what any attorney says. Protect your rights as a consumer as much as you can.
 
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Jeffrey L. Shurtliff

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Dec 4, 2010
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As far as violation of rights. There are no civil rights in regard to a contract especially with a National Association. When you sign for a loan on a home, you waive your rights and the only rights you have are under the contract. It is a misconception that civil rights are violated in a foreclosure. It is just not true.
 

Danielle

LoanSafe Member
Apr 26, 2012
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I understand what you are saying, but it still doesn't make the way they wrote the contract right. Yes we signed it, but borrowers should be warned of this or it should be more explicitly spelled out. And how are my rights not violated? They are violated because there's nothing in the contract that says it's okay to modify the loan without my signature, unless my paperwork said this and I wasn't aware of it. I still don't see how this makes it legal for them to do whatever they want?? I'm a co-borrower. Period. To me, I don't see how this releases them of the obligation of notifying me of changes or of providing me paperwork. Obviously I'm no expert, but I just can't follow the logic here.
 
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Heatherrdh

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May 18, 2014
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Danielle, thanks for your input! I wish I hadn't signed the quit claim deed! I was told by Wells Fargo that I needed to do this in order for my Ex to proceed with the "re financing". It pisses me off so much that the whole time, I was LIED to by many people, including Wells Fargo! My Ex wasn't even living in the house during all this and Wells Fargo stated he had to be occupying the property. LIES, LIES, LIES! I didn't even know that it was modified instead of refinanced until I requested my credit report for another reason and saw that the loan plus $15,000 to do the modify was still on there. I also saw that he had stopped paying for 5 months in order to show he couldn't pay for the home, the reason he got the modification. This really put a ding in my credit! I immediately called my ex and he said that he didn't want to tell me because he knew I would be upset.
As far as civil rights being violated...I think it is definitely a violation when banks lie to you and can alter your credit without you knowing! It is my right to know what is going on so that I can do something about it. People are so quick to say, "they can do what they want". I would like to see this happen to them. So what I can't ever get a house, car, etc for 30 yrs because this is on my credit. Our loan is a $400,000 loan, good luck with anyone ever lending me any money with that amount on there!
The only thing that is on my final divorce decree is that he was going to take over the house and decide to sell it or keep it. We all agreed in mediation that he was to refinance as soon as the market was better and there was some equity in the house. The attorneys drilled in to him that he is not to affect my credit in any way! As soon as we were divorced he moved out of state and quit paying on the house.
I now live in the house with our kids and pay half of the mortgage to him so that he will pay it every month. He just left with a suite case and all his possessions are in the house and I have no where to put my stuff except for storage. I tell him to come get his stuff and he tells me he has no room and that it is his house.
I am seeing an attorney tomorrow to see what I can do about this. I just want back on the title if I am paying for half anyway. I am also seeking more child support since we agreed to joint pay since he was supposed to be seeing the kids half time and helping out. He moved out of state a few weeks later and still only pays joint support but I have primary custody. He never sees his kids.
Thanks for listening!
 

Danielle

LoanSafe Member
Apr 26, 2012
8
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3
Danielle, thanks for your input! I wish I hadn't signed the quit claim deed! I was told by Wells Fargo that I needed to do this in order for my Ex to proceed with the "re financing". It pisses me off so much that the whole time, I was LIED to by many people, including Wells Fargo! My Ex wasn't even living in the house during all this and Wells Fargo stated he had to be occupying the property. LIES, LIES, LIES! I didn't even know that it was modified instead of refinanced until I requested my credit report for another reason and saw that the loan plus $15,000 to do the modify was still on there. I also saw that he had stopped paying for 5 months in order to show he couldn't pay for the home, the reason he got the modification. This really put a ding in my credit! I immediately called my ex and he said that he didn't want to tell me because he knew I would be upset.
As far as civil rights being violated...I think it is definitely a violation when banks lie to you and can alter your credit without you knowing! It is my right to know what is going on so that I can do something about it. People are so quick to say, "they can do what they want". I would like to see this happen to them. So what I can't ever get a house, car, etc for 30 yrs because this is on my credit. Our loan is a $400,000 loan, good luck with anyone ever lending me any money with that amount on there!
The only thing that is on my final divorce decree is that he was going to take over the house and decide to sell it or keep it. We all agreed in mediation that he was to refinance as soon as the market was better and there was some equity in the house. The attorneys drilled in to him that he is not to affect my credit in any way! As soon as we were divorced he moved out of state and quit paying on the house.
I now live in the house with our kids and pay half of the mortgage to him so that he will pay it every month. He just left with a suite case and all his possessions are in the house and I have no where to put my stuff except for storage. I tell him to come get his stuff and he tells me he has no room and that it is his house.
I am seeing an attorney tomorrow to see what I can do about this. I just want back on the title if I am paying for half anyway. I am also seeking more child support since we agreed to joint pay since he was supposed to be seeing the kids half time and helping out. He moved out of state a few weeks later and still only pays joint support but I have primary custody. He never sees his kids.
Thanks for listening!
Wow I feel for you!! I believe you can have him quit claim deed the house back to you, if you could convince him of that. It might be worth a try. That way at least he wouldn't be able to jerk you around so much. Then maybe you could get a roommate (difficult with kids I know) or someone to help you pay the mortgage. I suppose I wouldn't worry too much about his stuff being in the house. You could always put it in one room and get it somewhat out of your way. If he complains I'd say you thought he abandoned it, because that's really what he did. Sorry you're going through all that. It really sucks. I hope you can get it worked out somehow. Just try to sell the house as soon as you can, that's the only real way out.
 

Danielle

LoanSafe Member
Apr 26, 2012
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And as for Wells Fargo lying to you, they are SNAKES. They have been some of the worst since the market crashed. I tell everyone I know to not bank with them. They are absolute crooks. I'm sorry your loan was through them as well. I had a horrible time dealing with them. Worst decision of my life.
 

Jeffrey L. Shurtliff

LoanSafe Member
Dec 4, 2010
3,806
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I understand what you are saying, but it still doesn't make the way they wrote the contract right. Yes we signed it, but borrowers should be warned of this or it should be more explicitly spelled out. And how are my rights not violated? They are violated because there's nothing in the contract that says it's okay to modify the loan without my signature, unless my paperwork said this and I wasn't aware of it. I still don't see how this makes it legal for them to do whatever they want?? I'm a co-borrower. Period. To me, I don't see how this releases them of the obligation of notifying me of changes or of providing me paperwork. Obviously I'm no expert, but I just can't follow the logic here.
You are exactly right. There is no logic. This is the quasi part of the National Associations. They are Super Citizens. They have more rights as being a National Association they are contractors for the Federal Government. This is the way they can play this to get around the Pesky piece of paper called a Constitution.
 

Danielle

LoanSafe Member
Apr 26, 2012
8
2
3
You are exactly right. There is no logic. This is the quasi part of the National Associations. They are Super Citizens. They have more rights as being a National Association they are contractors for the Federal Government. This is the way they can play this to get around the Pesky piece of paper called a Constitution.
That's just WRONG!! But I do understand exactly what you're saying... Gotta vote out the bastards that make that crap legal... Ugh...
 

PatZZ

LoanSafe Member
Jan 30, 2011
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On the divorce/loan mod issue folks, take a look at this document :

https://www.nclc.org/images/pdf/foreclosure_mortgage/loan_mod/hamp-summary-for-judges.pdf

It's the "HAMP Summary for Judges."

On page 3, it states that servicers CANNOT - "Require dead or divorced borrowers on any modification documents."

And the 2015 Fannie Mae Servicing Guide states on page 813: https://www.fanniemae.com/content/guide/svc052015.pdf

"The servicer may encounter circumstances where a co-borrower signature is not obtainable for the Loan Modification Agreement, for reasons such as mental incapacity, military deployment, or contested divorce. When a co-borrower’s signature is not obtainable and the servicer decides to continue with the HAMP mortgage loan modification, the servicer must appropriately document
the basis for the exception in the servicing records
."​

Clearly, this is an issue that divorcing borrowers MUST be aware of during any discussions about the mortgage. As we see, Fannie & Freddie and the lenders have definitely thought about it.
.
.
 

Resolved

LoanSafe Member
Dec 1, 2017
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PROBLEM (in chronological order as this nightmare unfolded)
-divorce finalized 2 years ago. We had 3 kids together and their primary residence is with my ex in the home we formerly occupied together. My ex and I took out the loan together 10 years ago.

-I was a smart to do most of the divorce agreement myself in order to save money and continue to climb out of the debt I had accrued while married to my ex: except for the mortgage section in the agreement which screwed me. For this part, if I could go back in time: I would definitely have spent several thousand dollars for counsel.

-quote of the mortgage section:
"Real Property
...The Wife shall have full and exclusive possession of the property and shall use it as a primary residence for herself and the minor children. It is further contemplated that by refinance or other mechanism, the Wife shall take full ownership of the property and the Husband's name shall be removed from the title via a quit claim deed from the Husband to the Wife. Both parties acknowledge that their joint and several financial liabilities to the current mortgagee will remain in full force and effect until such time as a refinance or sale can be undertaken. The Wife will be responsible for the mortgage, taxes, insurance and other maintenance costs of the property and any equity resulting from a refinance or sale of the property shall become the exclusive property of the wife. The Husband hereby agree to execute and transfer any documentation necessary to effectuate the aforementioned refinance or sale and to participate in a timely and unconditional manner to complete same. It should be noted that the timing of these intentions will be affected by income and market forces not currently known."
-a few months after the divorce was finalized and the above agreement was filed with the court, my ex requested I sign a quit claim deed per the divorce agreement. I thought the agreement above was very clear in that it required her to refinance and take my name off. She also assured me this was what she was going to use it for. I signed the quit claim deed and mailed it to her: biggest mistake of my life so far (besides marrying her): I didn't know about loan modifications. My strategy was that, if she didn't achieve the refinance in her name only: I would be pleased to just have the mortgage company foreclose on the property, force a sale and I would deal with the bankruptcy/ whatever after the fact, re-build and move on.

-she took the quit claim deed, and over the next 6 months: took my name off the deed (and title? I think too) and then proceeded to miss payments for 5 months straight in order to qualify for the loan modification (at least this is my understanding).

-When she sent me the papers for the Loan Modification I was like "crap" what is this loan modification thing? I looked into it and an attorney advised me no way in heck don't sign anything having to do with that loan modification. I didn't.

-I just thought it would be absolutely illegal to approve the loan modification without my signature. How can it be legal to modify the terms of a loan agreement with another party's name on the loan without requiring their signature? Well: yep: found out the hard way this is what the quit claim deed allowed. I am still in shock.

-By the time I found out the Loan Modification had been approved: I had already gone through a 6 month process where I filed a contempt of court motion to force her to refinance because I hadn't seen any proof that she was pursuing this. At one point, the judge issued the following order:
"The matter is continued to [gave a date 2 months from that hearing]. At that time, paintiff [my ex] is to provide an update in the refinancing or sale of the marital home such as verification from the mortgage company that the refinance is pending, how long it will take to approve or proof that the house has been placed up for sale."
I was elated leaving that hearing.

-I showed up for court 2 months later on the date the order specified anticipating freedom from this loan one way or another via court order from this judge: and I couldn't believe it: a new judge! I thought: by the end of that hearing I was left with the impression that he needed a lot more time to review the details of the case (the previous judge had the benefit of becoming familiar with my ex' shenanigans and BS over the course of our case the previous year so I believe she had lost patience with my ex). I left court that day quit unsettled about what was going to happen.

-to make a long story short: 4 months later, my ex had achieved the loan modification without my signature, filed the quit claim deed and the loan modification with the court and the judge abruptly closed the hearings into the forcing of the refinance! I couldn't believe it! I am still in shock!

-I hired an Atty to write a letter to the mortgage company to try and negotiate taking my name off with them directly: this was before I knew how deeply I was screwed and that it appears this is all perfectly legal technically (to approve a loan mod without my signature if the mortgage company has the divorce agreement plus my signature on the quit claim deed).

-He accomplished exactly NOTHING as far as being able to negotiate with the mortgage company directly to take my name off the loan.
-This is where it all currently stand at present. A big old fat nightmare and mess for me.

-To top it off, I was remarried a year ago and my wife and I are trying to move on, buy a house, and save for retirement and all that. This loan puts a major damper on things: at any point my ex will likely keep wrecking my credit through late payments, my DTI ratio is severely hampered, She can obtain additional loan modification into perpetuity (the loan modification she did achieve reset the terms of the loan an additional 8 years already, she'll probably get second, third etc mortgages on the home, in the end she will probably go bankrupt given her money management mismanagement skills.

-I just need my name off the loan and be done with the divorce. This is the final link in the heavy, most onerous of chains to this horrendously , ghoulish, hauntingly creepy and dishonest manipulative, narcissistic scumbag of an ex.

QUESTION/ NEED FOR ADVISE:
I am finding out a lot about the problems with my situation: there is a lot of information available about what the proble s are in my situation. I believe I get it now: at last as far as I've outlined the problem above.

What is the solution(s) that have been successful if there are any?

Has anyone heard of anyone successfully removing their name from the loan given the variables I've outlined?

My best approach I can think of right now to get my name off as soon as possible:

-hire an attorney that specializes in this sort of thing
-use my $36K per year war chest I'm partitioning off of my yearly financial budget to pay an attorney to get my name off this mortgage loan once and for all
-Here are a few ideas that I think will strengthen my case before a judge (maybe civil instead of family court?)

1. I can easily put together documentation that demonstrates that she did no fulfill her part of the agreement to pay the mortgage in the last 2 years. There was a five month period (plus a few others, I believe here and there) where she was late with the payment, and or didn't pay at all adding up to indications on my credit report/ mortgage payment history that she was 120+ days late at one point. My credit score was destroyed: it was down to like 519 at one point. I've had a couple of experts review my entire debt payment history in conjunction with my credit score history and they've told me that without those late/ non-payments on the house that she was legally obligated to make: my score would be up in the low-mid 800s and never would have gone down in the last 4 years. She ruined my credit score by not fulfilling her contractual obligations + I have to worry she will do it again. Plus: the divorce agreement requires that she does refinance at some point but when? I would argue if not immediately to avoid the risk to my credit score on an ongoing basis, at least there needs to be some deadline, date setup by the court for when this must happen by.
2. Accordingly, ask a judge/ the judge to order a timeline for refinance and if the ex can't do it within that timeling (maybe 6 months) he order it undergo a short sale.
2. Does a common law marriage and forcing her to refinance in the name of her live in boyfriend bolster my case (he has been living there for 2 years or so?) They just hide a child together: I hope this wouldn't strengthen the courts position that they aren't going to kick my ex out of the home by forcing a short sale. The mortgage payment, according to my calculations is 53% of her pre-tax income which includes all of the child support I pay. Surely this man is helping with household expenses including the mortgage payment?