I Am Absolutely Convinced That.........

Moe Bedard

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The BK district I am in now insists that there be a response in order to ensure the lender is aware of the BK and will follow the order. I am in the middle of stripping a heloc in my bk13 and BofA failed to respond to the original filing so now it will cost me a couple grand to serve them again. It is BS as they had the chance and I did my part.
Did you hire a lawyer or are your pro se?
 

Moe Bedard

Call 1-800-779-4547
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Aug 10, 2007
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Moe you are correct! And Bankruptcy is only a temporary action against a foreclosure. After mine was discharged the bank promptly foreclosed on me using bogus documents. It did not matter what kind of bogus docs they were as the court was only concerned with the DEFAULT. This is central to all foreclosures.
Yes Jeffrey! They all work as the BIG hand of the long arm of the law that is meant primarily to slap us, and not help us. We live in a feudal system and the American homeowner is truly just a care taker of the land and home they buy in which they pay the master bank and government their fees for such a privilege.
 

jhn_plsn

LoanSafe Member
Apr 29, 2008
357
6
18
Riverside, Ca
Did you hire a lawyer or are your pro se?
I have an attorney. The request came from the judge. I was told there is no hurry and that it could be done at the end of the plan.
 
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willingtoplay

LoanSafe Member
Apr 3, 2013
81
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More information on Agenda 21;

Agenda 21 is a non-binding, voluntarily implemented action plan of the United Nationswith regard to sustainable development.[1] It is a product of the UN Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED) held in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, in 1992. It is an action agenda for the UN, other multilateral organizations, and individual governments around the world that can be executed at local, national, and global levels. The "21" in Agenda 21 refers to the 21st Century. It has been affirmed and modified at subsequent UN conferences.

The UN Department of Economic and Social Affairs' Division for Sustainable Development monitors and evaluates progress, nation by nation, towards the adoption of Agenda 21, and makes these reports available to the public on its website.[8]

Australia, for example, is a signatory to Agenda 21 and 88 of its municipalities subscribe to ICLEI, an organization that promotes Agenda 21 globally. Australia's membership is second only to that of the United States.[9] Opposition to Agenda 21 in Australia is not covered in the major media outlets. European countries generally possess well documented Agenda 21 statuses. France, whose national government, along with 14 cities, is a signatory, boasts nationwide programs supporting Agenda 21. The French activist group Nouvelle Force announced in March 2012 that they viewed Agenda 21 as a "sham".[10]

In Africa, national support for Agenda 21 is strong and most countries are signatories. But support is often closely tied to environmental challenges specific to each country; for example, in 2002 Sam Nujoma, who was then President of Namibia, spoke about the importance of adhering to Agenda 21 at the 2002 Earth Summit, noting that as a semi-arid country, Namibia sets a lot of store in theUnited Nations Convention to Combat Desertification (UNCCD).[11] Furthermore, there is little mention of Agenda 21 at the local level in indigenous media. Only major municipalities in sub-Saharan African countries are members of ICLEI. Agenda 21 participation inNorth African countries mirrors that of Middle Eastern countries, with most countries being signatories but little to no adoption on the local-government level. Countries in sub-Saharan Africa and North Africa generally have poorly documented Agenda 21 status reports.[citation needed] By contrast, South Africa's participation in Agenda 21 mirrors that of modern Europe, with 21 city members of ICLEI and support of Agenda 21 by national-level government.[citation needed]

Specific countries[edit]
This section requiresexpansion. (April 2014)
United States[edit]
The national focal point in the United States is the Division Chief for Sustainable Development and Multilateral Affairs, Office of Environmental Policy, Bureau of Oceans and International Environmental and Scientific Affairs, U.S. Department of State.[12]

Support[edit]
The United States is a signatory country to Agenda 21, but because Agenda 21 is a legally non-binding statement of intent and not a treaty, the United States Senate was not required to hold a formal debate or vote on it. It is therefore not considered to be law underArticle Six of the United States Constitution. President George Bush was one of the 178 heads of government who signed the final text of the agreement at the Earth Summit in 1992,[13][14] and in the same year Representatives Nancy Pelosi, Eliot Engel and William Broomfield spoke in support of United States House of Representatives Concurrent Resolution 353, supporting implementation of Agenda 21 in the United States.[15][16]

In the United States, over 528 cities are members of ICLEI, an international sustainability organization that helps to implement the Agenda 21 and Local Agenda 21 concepts across the world. The United States has nearly half of the ICLEI's global membership of 1,200 cities promoting sustainable development at a local level.[9] The United States also has one of the most comprehensively documented Agenda 21 status reports.[17] In response to the opposition, Don Knapp, U.S. spokesman for the ICLEI, has said "Sustainable development is not a top-down conspiracy from the U.N., but a bottom-up push from local governments".[16]

The Arizona Chamber of Commerce and Industry successfully lobbied against an anti-sustainable development bill in 2012, arguing "It would be bad for business" as it could drive away corporations that have embraced sustainable development.
SOURCE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agenda_21
Thanks for this post Moe. If any does not believe that there is not some grand scheme to organize society to the whims of unfettered capitalism and exploitation, be it state or capitalism, they must be living a fairy tale. This has always been the project of people in power throughout history, only now resources are becoming more scarce. As you pointed out, the media is a sham because for the most part they are wholly owned by the same agents. As citizens we are going to have to step outside the bounds of the mainstream media to get the information necessary to combat the forces that wish to take over our lives. This is possible and happens at the local level quite often. In my state, PA, the fracking industry is getting a lot of push back and small towns are banning fracking. Activism is going to have to be a central part of our lives in the future if we are to make our voices heard.
 

Royal Delta

LoanSafe Member
Sep 25, 2013
117
14
18
Do not admit the default - you're under no obligation to incriminate yourself. Even if you think you defaulted, the entity who is standing before very very likely isn't your creditor. The other side will blatantly lie and present fraudulent documents before the court, why should the homeowner admit to something for which no evidence is provided?
 
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Moe Bedard

Call 1-800-779-4547
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Aug 10, 2007
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Southern California
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Thanks for this post Moe. If any does not believe that there is not some grand scheme to organize society to the whims of unfettered capitalism and exploitation, be it state or capitalism, they must be living a fairy tale. This has always been the project of people in power throughout history, only now resources are becoming more scarce. As you pointed out, the media is a sham because for the most part they are wholly owned by the same agents. As citizens we are going to have to step outside the bounds of the mainstream media to get the information necessary to combat the forces that wish to take over our lives. This is possible and happens at the local level quite often. In my state, PA, the fracking industry is getting a lot of push back and small towns are banning fracking. Activism is going to have to be a central part of our lives in the future if we are to make our voices heard.
My pleasure willingtoplay and thank you for your most honest input. Unfortunately most people love a fairy tale rather than the cold hard truth. Hence, the state of our country and uninformed citizenry that is the majority rather than the minority.

Sometimes my honesty about our current reality and the fact I rarely sugar coat the truth has got me into a lot of hot water over the years and also has turned away many LoanSafe members.

I'm rather cynical about the future. My own experiences here on LoanSafe and other facets of my life have proven to me without a doubt that The Powers That Be have the game sewn up to the point they can do things to test us right in front of our face, and know that the people ain't going to do shit about it. What can they do?

Banning fracking and other non-sustainable industries actually coincides with Agenda 21. The goal with Agenda 21 is less people, homes, companies and jobs polluting the world.

It is what it is. All we can do is as you mentioned on the micro local levels with our families and communities.
 
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NeedhelpinPA.

LoanSafe Member
Feb 14, 2013
280
42
28
I agree, but it is not so sinister as you think. We live in a country that is ran by the rule of law and NOT by the rule of what is right or help thy neighbor. In fact it is screw thy neighbor as long as it is within the rule of law. In addition, we live in a country where the corporations only duties if they operate within the law is to their shareholders and profits.

Homeowners who break their legally binding contracts are in violation of the law and have to pay for their violations. Giving a homeowner a loan modification or short sale is not good for their shareholders and profits.

Hence, this is WTH is wrong and has been since day one of this mortgage crisis.
Hi Moe....I hear you loud and clear. SINISTER....you betcha. ITS ALL ABOUT GREED!!!!!!!
 
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buchanovich

LoanSafe Member
Oct 9, 2013
149
21
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55
New Jersey
As Moe said, it is rule of law. To be sure, law can be bent but, even without "forces" acting, we have a couple of fundamental problems, which is why it is a LEGAL system and NOT a JUSTICE system.

1. You get as much "justice" as you can afford to pay for. If you have enough money to pay lawyers and experts, you have a better chance. The "little guy defeats the big boys" is for the movies for the naive and to brainwash children in elementary school.

2. There is no such thing as justice when a different judge will rule differently with the same or similar facts and law. It is all how the judge feels that day or, his/her own personal bias. This is a problem in all legal contexts. In real estate, such as rental, it is common to have one judge considered a "tenant's judge" and another the opposite; an attorney really earns his/her pay when they know the difference and change a trial date. SOme judges won't like it if you are pro se. Hard to know since seeing into their minds isn't possible. ANother area is bankruptcy: some will discharge, others refuse, even if the law is on one's side.

A friend of mine once said very simply, "You can go into court, knowing the laws and the facts and know you are right. When you come out, you wonder WTH happened."
 

Moe Bedard

Call 1-800-779-4547
Staff member
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Southern California
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I guess this is why when you seek legal help, it is on a "court" with a "judge who is the only one on the bench."

Let me please add that although our current legal system leaves much to be desired, it is MUCH better than 99% of the legal systems around the world and the ones from the past. In times past, many of you would have been simply killed or placed in perpetual slavery to your property masters because you didn't pay up.

With that said, I'm thankful to live in a great country and a better world where we are not killed or placed in chains for not paying our debts and there still can be justice found in our courtrooms every single day.
 

Royal Delta

LoanSafe Member
Sep 25, 2013
117
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18
Right again, Moe, I've read an awful lot of classic English literature where people routinely got send to debtors' prison! Thankfully, our Founding Fathers did away with that in our Constitution. And yet, I've read stories in the last several years where cops HAVE put people in jail for owing debts! Ironically, this usually occurs in Red States, where they're all for the Constitution ...too bad that most never read it.

And yes, the judge DOES matter. A relative of mine did something stupid, but minor, a few years ago. One judge, and the prosecutor, were ready to throw the book at him. Judge and prosecutor were changed, and suddenly it was no big deal and NO penalty.
 

acesfull

LoanSafe Member
Nov 5, 2008
2,216
110
63
NEW JERSEY
Right again, Moe, I've read an awful lot of classic English literature where people routinely got send to debtors' prison! Thankfully, our Founding Fathers did away with that in our Constitution. And yet, I've read stories in the last several years where cops HAVE put people in jail for owing debts! Ironically, this usually occurs in Red States, where they're all for the Constitution ...too bad that most never read it.

And yes, the judge DOES matter. A relative of mine did something stupid, but minor, a few years ago. One judge, and the prosecutor, were ready to throw the book at him. Judge and prosecutor were changed, and suddenly it was no big deal and NO penalty.
Hi Folks
Hi Royal Delta, You're post reminds me of an old line I heard some time back. " A good lawyer knows the law, a Great lawyer knows the Judge."
Best regards
Nj-46 Months
Acesfull/HWP
 

acesfull

LoanSafe Member
Nov 5, 2008
2,216
110
63
NEW JERSEY
Do not admit the default - you're under no obligation to incriminate yourself. Even if you think you defaulted, the entity who is standing before very very likely isn't your creditor. The other side will blatantly lie and present fraudulent documents before the court, why should the homeowner admit to something for which no evidence is provided?
Hi Folks
Hi Royal Delta-
I see where you're going with the do not admit the default theory however this approach I feel will fail. Let me explain why.
In civil litigation any allegations not answered will be deemed to be true. While invoking you're 5th amendment right is clearly correct in criminal matters, invoking the 5th in civil matters is a no-no. The default will be found during discovery and therefore the plaintiff's will prove the default exist.. How I approach the issue is this, admit the default from jump street, but challenge the plaintiff's standing as to reaping the benefits from the default. Challenge all their documents. Unless they have the signed contract between both parties before the court, then they have no case. We need to not make the default the issue, but make the PROPER LEGAL ENTITY THE ISSUE.
We need to make the plaintiff's prove that they are being HARMED by the default, not that we are in default.
You want to come into court with clean hands and make the plaintiff's prove that no other entity is entitled to reap the benefits of you're default. Courts are not going to award a free and clear home to anyone for any reason, at least I have not heard of such a ruling to date, if I am wrong please correct me. Courts are also aware of delay tactics on the part of homeowners and they are also aware that loans get sold many,many times after the closing of the loan documents and therefore the entity before them may not be the proper legal entity to bring the foreclosure action nor reap the benefits from said default.
We need to keep the case simple when arguing pro se. Put the burden of proof in the plaintiff's lap, challenge all documents they present to the court, etc...
An issue I see arising in my state of NJ, is that the local courts are awarding quick summary judgments to the plaintiff's and sending the case back to what is called the foreclosure unit for review, currently I have no idea what they(foreclosure unit) actually do regarding the local courts ruling's. That is a mystery to me.
Royal, thank you for you're input, ideas, and suggestions.
Keep up the fight.
Best regards.
NJ-46 Months
Acesfull/HWP
 

Jeffrey L. Shurtliff

LoanSafe Member
Dec 4, 2010
3,806
137
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There are no Constitutional Rights that you can use. You signed them away by agreeing to the Contract. The Contract or DOT is the governing document in any action. Many people mistakenly think the bank is violating their rights. They are not. You signed them away. Mainly most quote Due Process. You must state what Process is Due to you and how that would supersede the contract that you signed. This cannot be done without doing away with the contract. Remember the birth of the Deed of Trust was the US District Court and all of them have the same language in them.
 

Royal Delta

LoanSafe Member
Sep 25, 2013
117
14
18
Hi Acesful, yes I overall agree with what you wrote - the key is to challenge the plaintiff's standing by all means. So I suppose the best thing is to not acknowledge the plaintiff as the creditor - this is what my attorney told me to do.

I also think there have been plenty and plenty of free houses awarded - to banks and non-existent trusts. Notice how the TBTF banks have been making millions (heck, maybe billions?) in profits since 2008. It's all on the backs of homeowners who they've fraudulently foreclosed on.

Anyway, you wrote that you had a summary judgement against you two years ago and that the judgement was sent to Trenton for "review." Wow, that's a long time - is it always like that?

Best of luck to you and everyone here, keep up the good fight! I don't think I could do it myself. I have had the worst worst luck in the last several years, one bad thing upon another. My stroke of luck is that a relative of mine is an experienced foreclosure defense attorney and took this on for me - much to the consternation of the foreclosure mill I'm sure - we will put them to the mat, win or lose.
 

acesfull

LoanSafe Member
Nov 5, 2008
2,216
110
63
NEW JERSEY
Hi Royal

Regarding my SJ and you're query. I believe that I just got real lucky. I can't really explain exactly what could have happened.
In researching my case/docket number, I cannot find a record thereof, it is very strange, however, I will continue to let sleeping dogs sleep.
Best of luck to you in you're fight.
Best regards.
Nj-46 Months
Acesfull/HWP
 

NeedhelpinPA.

LoanSafe Member
Feb 14, 2013
280
42
28
Hello All.......

Update....I have an appointment tomorrow with a BK attorney! Just going to see what he says, and how he can try and spin me into a deal with him. Just brushing up my skills folks and getting some free advice..... Any thing I should look out for barring the obvious....He wants my business....or may not when he sees how Poor I really am....

Any questions I should be asking that I am not thinking of? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Just want to keep putting the bank off.........

Love you all,

Needhelp.................

Past History.....

Going on 42 months without a payment.....
Ocwen - servicer
The Bank of New York Mellon Trustee
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
MERS
8.9% ARM