help...anyone?

emerge

LoanSafe Member
Jun 10, 2008
42
0
0
Hello all,
I recently just stopped paying my mortgage. I am two months behind. By the end of January I will be 23 months. Stopped paying in November.<O:p</O:p
I have applied for the loan mod 3 times been denied twice. This 3<SUP>rd</SUP> time seems to be going a lot smoother having a point person at chase that actually calls me and keeps me up to date on things, which is nice! I am currently waiting for the decision. I received a letter yesterday that if I don’t pay the full past due amount in 32 days that the house will go into default. I take it that means foreclosure? So I’ve been in contact with chase and letting them know that I am trying to come up with the money. I guess my question is should I pay at least one month so that I am only 2 months instead of 3? I don’t want to go into foreclosure as I am waiting to see what the out come is of the modification. Do I pay a month to keep them going? Any insight on this would be great!
<O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p
On a side note: HUD contacted me while I was already in the process of the loan mod. Did an interview with them on the phone and they sent me a packet. Pretty much what I already filled out and sent to Chase for the modification. Would I have a better chance going through HUD? Anyone have luck using them?<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p
Cheers from a very concerned/confused homeowner!!<O:p></O:p>
 

daneam

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2010
560
7
0
Hello all,
I recently just stopped paying my mortgage. I am two months behind. By the end of January I will be 23 months. Stopped paying in November.<O:p</O:p
I have applied for the loan mod 3 times been denied twice. This 3<SUP>rd</SUP> time seems to be going a lot smoother having a point person at chase that actually calls me and keeps me up to date on things, which is nice! I am currently waiting for the decision. I received a letter yesterday that if I don’t pay the full past due amount in 32 days that the house will go into default. I take it that means foreclosure? So I’ve been in contact with chase and letting them know that I am trying to come up with the money. I guess my question is should I pay at least one month so that I am only 2 months instead of 3? I don’t want to go into foreclosure as I am waiting to see what the out come is of the modification. Do I pay a month to keep them going? Any insight on this would be great!
<O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p
On a side note: HUD contacted me while I was already in the process of the loan mod. Did an interview with them on the phone and they sent me a packet. Pretty much what I already filled out and sent to Chase for the modification. Would I have a better chance going through HUD? Anyone have luck using them?<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p
Cheers from a very concerned/confused homeowner!!<O:p></O:p>
Why did HUD contact you? Did you contact them? I thought the one in charge of the HAMP loan mod is the Treasury Department. What were the reasons for previous denial? What are the numbers?(payments, loan amounts, tax, insurance, HOA, gross income, value of the hosue) did you run the NPV test on FDIC site?
 

emerge

LoanSafe Member
Jun 10, 2008
42
0
0
HUD contacted me because Freddie Mac had flagged them that I was behind. So they gave me call which was pretty nice! reason on my previeous denials was because my hardship letter didnt meet their critria! which is a load of crap if you ask me. I was put into a loan that was unaffordable from the get go. right before everthing went to crap. So i was hoping in a year at most i would be able to refinance. no such luck. now its gone on way to long my house payment is 60% or so of what I make. Not easy to live on.

My payment a month is 1,743. The loan amount is 281,200 @ 6.375%. The houses around me are going for about 205k. 320 for HOA. My taxes are included in my monthly payment. Gross I make about 1800. I see about 1350.00 after taxes. so a month I take home about 2700.00
so as you can see real quick... 1743 + 320 = 2063.00 Im already left with very little to live on. gas, groceries, utilities, and so on. why they dont see this is anyones guess :(

I havent run the numbers on the FDIC site. Didnt know there was one. I think I will do that right after I post this.

thanks!
 

dianne

Senior Member
Nov 5, 2010
323
2
0
Do you have a link for the FIDCO site? I cant find anything on there?
Emerge, do you get **** once a month or twice? I was gonna see if I could figure out something, "close" for you. Right now, I am waiting for my mod. papers to come, so I have a little lull in all this. I can maybe help some here.
 

dianne

Senior Member
Nov 5, 2010
323
2
0
Emerge, I was just playing around with the numbers, just like I did many times, for myself. I don't know what your taxes are, but if your income is $3600 a month, I think a HAMP payment, would be $1116 a month. If your house is only worth $205,000, but you owe $281,200...Couldn't there be a $93,733 principal "balloon" payment? If that is correct, then your payment, might be based on $187,467, with a $93,733 balloon payment. At 2% interest, for 40 years, there would be a $567.70 principal payment. You still have to add taxes and insurance. PMI is added, to the HAMP payment, if I understand correctly. So, for HAMP, I am guessing, that when the taxes and insurance, would be added, to the $567 principal payment, the total amount couldn't go over $1116 a month. Then, the PMI payment is added to the $1116.

Do you know what your bank has your house valued at? That's very important to know! Good luck!

I started with HUD and no, they were not helpful. My counselor there, knew nothing about mods., was rude and snide, and told me I couldn't afford any payment. She wouldn't listen, even for a second, while I explained that my spouse had recently been removed from the home and child support, was set to begin.
 
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daneam

Senior Member
Jul 27, 2010
560
7
0
HUD contacted me because Freddie Mac had flagged them that I was behind. So they gave me call which was pretty nice! reason on my previeous denials was because my hardship letter didnt meet their critria! which is a load of crap if you ask me. I was put into a loan that was unaffordable from the get go. right before everthing went to crap. So i was hoping in a year at most i would be able to refinance. no such luck. now its gone on way to long my house payment is 60% or so of what I make. Not easy to live on.

My payment a month is 1,743. The loan amount is 281,200 @ 6.375%. The houses around me are going for about 205k. 320 for HOA. My taxes are included in my monthly payment. Gross I make about 1800. I see about 1350.00 after taxes. so a month I take home about 2700.00
so as you can see real quick... 1743 + 320 = 2063.00 Im already left with very little to live on. gas, groceries, utilities, and so on. why they dont see this is anyones guess :(

I havent run the numbers on the FDIC site. Didnt know there was one. I think I will do that right after I post this.

thanks!
assuming your gross monthly is $3600 you and you are underwater on your first you should qualify HAMP loan mod. like Dianne said you post mod should be $1116 including tax, insurance, HOA. Your monthly payment should $796 because you need to pay $320 for HOA.
But my concern is you don't have enough income even the forebear max 30% of $281,000(put it to the end of loan with no interest till you sell you house).(I came up with $800-$900 monthly payment)

Ask Dianne what are the terms of her loan mod because mine is very different my first loan is only $50k so they don't need to forebear anything just offered me a 14 year fixed rate loan at 5%.

Since your case involve forebearance I suggest you start a thread title "Menace could you help me on my numbers?" Hopefully he can help, is very good at numbers.
 

emerge

LoanSafe Member
Jun 10, 2008
42
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thanks Daneam, Dianne for your input!!

Answers to your questions...I get paid twice a month. my place is roughly worth about 205k. loan is for 281,200. I only have the one loan.
 

Moe Bedard

Call 1-800-779-4547
Staff member
Loan Safe Mortgage
Aug 10, 2007
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First, if you gross $1800 every two weeks, you gross close to $3900 a month. There are 4.3 weeks in a month, and 4.3 x $900 a week is $3870 so under HAMP your payment would be about $1200. That amount has to pay principal, interest, taxes, insurance, and HOA. With your HOA at $320, and guessing about $380 for tax/ins, that means you have $500 allowed to go toward principal. $500 is enough for a loan amount of about $165k under HAMP. Since you owe about $285k with fees, arrears, etc, they are allowed to forbear 30% of that amount, or about $85k. So the lowest they can make your loan is right around $200k($285k loan minus $85k forbearance limit). Since you only qualify for a loan of $165k, you don't qualify for HAMP.

You need to have at the very least $300 more income every month. maybe more maybe less depending on the actual amount of your taxes and insurance. If those are less than maybe $280 a month, you might qualify with your current income. But even $300 more income, or if your tax/ins are $280 a month, that is cutting it real close. About $400-$500 more a month would be helpful.

Basically, if your tax/ins/HOA are over $600 a month, you won't qualify with your current income. And even that is assuming the lender allows the maximum forbearance. If you have a fannie mae, or freddie mac loan, you at least know that they allow the maximim.
 

dianne

Senior Member
Nov 5, 2010
323
2
0
Although you know that houses around you are selling for $205,000, and you owe $281,000, the only thing that matters, right now, is what is your mortgage company saying your home is valued at? They will surely have already set a value on it, and without coming to it. You need to call and persist, until you find out what that number is. If it isn't close to $205,000 and you can afford it, get your own appraisal. Then submit it, to your mortgage company. It's possible, that it would come in, even lower than $205,000.

If your appraisal comes back at $205,000 or significantly lower than $281,000, take it to your property tax office. You may be able to get your taxes lowered, maybe even that day. I am in a small town, and was able to walk right in, and have it done on the spot. It saves me $150 a month, but it also raised the amount of principal, that would be able to be paid, even though my income didn't increase. Then submit the paperwork to your mortgage company, who will send it all to their property tax dept., to hopefully be accepted. Now for a HAMP, you would pay less to taxes and more to principal, making you more favorable for a HAMP, without any increase in income. In some larger areas, I think you have to make an appeal, to your tax office, so just give them a call.
 

emerge

LoanSafe Member
Jun 10, 2008
42
0
0
hmmm...ok.
thanks menace for your input! I guess it throws a wrench in it when I say I just got married in October. Im the only person on the loan but included her income on the modification form as she obviously helps pay bills so maybe that will help the situation.

So why would a bank put me in a loan that I couldnt afford in the first place? I was assured I'd be able to refinanace by everyone. but everything went to hell! Are there lawyers that look over loans that have already been signed and done with? wonder if they can find something wrong with mine?

this ****s!!
 

dianne

Senior Member
Nov 5, 2010
323
2
0
assuming your gross monthly is $3600 you and you are underwater on your first you should qualify HAMP loan mod. like Dianne said you post mod should be $1116 including tax, insurance, HOA. Your monthly payment should $796 because you need to pay $320 for HOA.
But my concern is you don't have enough income even the forebear max 30% of $281,000(put it to the end of loan with no interest till you sell you house).(I came up with $800-$900 monthly payment)

Ask Dianne what are the terms of her loan mod because mine is very different my first loan is only $50k so they don't need to forebear anything just offered me a 14 year fixed rate loan at 5%.

Since your case involve forebearance I suggest you start a thread title "Menace could you help me on my numbers?" Hopefully he can help, is very good at numbers.
I don't know what the actual terms are, except it is a HAMP and my principal payment is $600. Playing with the numbers, it looks like my interest rate is 2%, term 40 years, and everything over $200,000 forebeared. NACA said my escrow is $210, and then there is about $67 PMI. My payment, total was $1900 a month. I should get my papers in a few days. This isn't a NACA agreement, but they surely helped with lots of advice, encouragement, persistance.
 

dianne

Senior Member
Nov 5, 2010
323
2
0
You don't have to add all of your wife's income, if she isn't on the mortgage or deed. Just add enough, to make things work, but keep in mind, they deduct 25% of family contributions. You don't want to get into trouble again, with too high a mortgage.
 

bavguy

LoanSafe Member
Nov 9, 2010
5
0
0
Hey Guys,

I need some help with number too and didnt want to do a whole new post. Ive been in mod process since Nov 2009. They finally got back with a denial last week. The 3 points they made were NPV fail too much forbearance and excessive forbearance? Their number came back different from what I had submitted.

income $5410
1st $3083
2nd $880
prp tax $565
ins $235
hoa $150

They had:
Income $5613
1st $3083
2nd $643
prp tax $545
hoa $150

and some said they had a total of $3843?

she said I missed the 31% guideline being at 29.98% I dont really get that.

and the loan is balances:1st $464,000 2nd $142,000 zillow $517,000
 

dianne

Senior Member
Nov 5, 2010
323
2
0
I really don't know how they figure the mods., if you have a second. If you discard, that amount, 31% of your income is about $1677, $962 for principal...For a HAMP. If your home is worth, more than you owe, I think it is harder to get them to forebear. I don't know if they add in the second. I only had the first. What is the source of your income? Are you certain they have it recorded correctly? Do you know what your bank has valued your home for? It is very important to verify that and if it is way too high, you will need to take action to get that corrected.

If your principal balance is $462,000, the bank would need to forebear approx. $140,000, lower your interest rate to 2%, stretch loan to 40 years. If your home isn't underwater, I think that is hard to get them to do. That doesn't mean give up. Find out what homes are selling for in your neighborhood. Find out what your bank has your home valued for. Sign up for NACA. Keep trying.
 

dianne

Senior Member
Nov 5, 2010
323
2
0
I really don't know how they figure the mods., if you have a second. If you discard, that amount, 31% of your income is about $1677, $962 for principal...For a HAMP. If your home is worth, more than you owe, I think it is harder to get them to forebear. I don't know if they add in the second. I only had the first. What is the source of your income? Are you certain they have it recorded correctly? Do you know what your bank has valued your home for? It is very important to verify that and if it is way too high, you will need to take action to get that corrected.

If your principal balance is $462,000, the bank would need to forebear approx. $140,000, lower your interest rate to 2%, stretch loan to 40 years. If your home isn't underwater, I think that is hard to get them to do. That doesn't mean give up. Find out what homes are selling for in your neighborhood. Find out what your bank has your home valued for. Sign up for NACA. Keep trying.
 

TomEason

LoanSafe Guide
Jun 18, 2009
12,390
85
48
SF Bay Area CA
Hey Guys,

I need some help with number too and didnt want to do a whole new post. Ive been in mod process since Nov 2009. They finally got back with a denial last week. The 3 points they made were NPV fail too much forbearance and excessive forbearance? Their number came back different from what I had submitted.

income $5410
1st $3083
2nd $880
prp tax $565
ins $235
hoa $150

They had:
Income $5613
1st $3083
2nd $643
prp tax $545
hoa $150

and some said they had a total of $3843?

she said I missed the 31% guideline being at 29.98% I dont really get that.

and the loan is balances:1st $464,000 2nd $142,000 zillow $517,000
bavguy
I come up with a DTI of about 67% with either set of figures. It's my understanding that the 2nd is not considered as an input to the NPV. When you say "she said I missed the 31% guideline being at 29.98%", who is "she"? And, if it was a BOA rep, she obviously made a bad math error. Regardless, it is very likely that you didn't pass the NPV because, after the standard waterfall, in order to get your DTI = 31% would require excessive forbearance.
 

Michael Naz

Michael Naz
Jan 9, 2011
2,965
38
48
Southern California
You mean the bank actually got the wrong numbers?... what a SHOCK!..... i wish i could say i was at all suprised they had numbers that differ from what was submitted...

THE NPV does not take the 2nd Lien into condieration at all. It is based off the first lien.

we all know or i hope you know the security instrument used on 2nd leins was "EQUITY" when thats gone it basically becomes a CREDIT CARD.. un secured debt.

The investors usually differ from 1st to 2nd as well even if they dont, they are handled as 2 diffrent loans 9 outa 10 times.. ive actually seen one private investor join both loans and modify the now single loan. I really had to pinch myself, i was like what huh? OK!.. no argument there.

The NPV is a 60 page algorithm, that basically in a nut shell tells you if the investor will come out on top by modifying the loan. IF the investor comes out on top by modifying the loan, it should be modified. That DTI sounds more than qualifying if you are at 67%....THE NPV IS not something easy to calculate it takes into account your PROPERTY VALUE, THE REO HOLD TIME with MOD and w/o MOD... as well as your actual location. YOUR UPB... with all past due. orignial start date.. LTV at loan origination... among many other things... its very complicated

The only real way i guess is to see what your REST REPORT says, it will tell you if you do or do not qualify for HAMP, FLEX MOD< CAP, or STEP MOD... along with 100 other internal bank mods it takes into account. If you have been denied tried for over a year you qualify for the new announcment with RRM... MOE posted about the REST REPORT, we are looking for a few more. its called something like REST REPORT MATTERS REVIEW... Posted by MOE BEDARD, he just did a forum wide annoucement about it as well.
 

Moe Bedard

Call 1-800-779-4547
Staff member
Loan Safe Mortgage
Aug 10, 2007
26,850
466
1,000
49
Southern California
www.loansafe.org
When the bank mentions DTI for HAMP, they are talking about the ratio of PITI payment to GROSS income. It is defined that way for HAMP.

And basically, if you have equity, and need a mod, it is unlikely that you get one. Why would the lender loan you money at a discount when they can foreclose, get back everything you owe, and then reloan that money at normal rates instead of discounted HAMP rates? Needing forbearance when having equity makes it nearly impossible to pass NPV. When I say equity, I mean equity after expense of selling. And if you need a lot of forbearance, you need to be pretty far upside down. There are other calculations and variables, but that is still pretty much the end result. If you have an interest rate of 7% and a mod at 5% wil get you to the 31% number, having equity is not as important, because 5% is a very good rate of return for the lender. But if they need to go to 2%, they start losing money.

But NPV doesn't even matter if you require more forbearance than is allowed by HAMP.
For bavguy, with an income of $5613, he qualifies for a payment of $1740, and if escrow is $930, that leaves $810 to pay principal and interest. Under HAMP, @2% for 40 yrs, the maximum loan available with $810 is about $265k.

If the loan balance is $464k, and the home is worth more than that, maximum forbearance allowed is 30% of the loan balance, or almost $140k. If you subtract the maximum forbearance from the original loan amount($464k- $140k) you get the minimum HAMP loan amount possible, in this case $324k.

Since bavguy can only afford a loan of $265k, and the minimum HAMP loan for his property is $324k, he does not qualify no matter what the NPV result is. He would need almost $200k of forbearance to bring his loan down to the $265k he can afford. Since the maximim forbearance is $140k, and he needs almost $200k, he requires more (excessive, or to much) forbearance than is allowed. For him to qualify, his property value would need to be $265k or less.

In most cases, NPV doesn't even matter if you do all the other math first. And it doesn't take 60 pages.

If you pass based off of everything but NPV, you can ask for the inputs, but it is fairly easy to guess at NPV if you know the value of the property, the loan balance, escrow payment, and income. I wouldn't pay for any test unless the guestimate is that it is borderline.

That said, this is all only for HAMP, inhouse mods have their own rules, and their own NPV tests. But simple logic can go far in figuring if it is worth modifying.