Help-13 yr old HEL Sold to Creditor on Title

sdbeachgirl

LoanSafe Member
Mar 3, 2018
9
0
1
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this thread and this is my first post. I need some help in settling a very old 2nd Countrywide HEL that was taken out in 2005 for $93K. The last payment I made was in 2008 and after about a year it was sold/transferred to RTR ( Real Times Resolution-a creditor) in 2009. I was told by my attorney at that time that if they didn't sue me & get a judgement for 4 yrs (since the date of my past payment...Im in California) that I would be free from owing the debt. I know now that this is not true....my lawyer back then was extremely confident about this and so I never questioned it until recently when I saw I had a 2nd lien on title.. RTR did not do anything for the 4 yrs except send me letters (ironically none of them in 10 yrs have said "Foreclosure"...just asked to settle or work something out). They sent me letters until Oct 2017 and honestly, every time I got a letter I just ignored it and thought nothing of it. Well, here we are in 2018 and I have equity in my home now and I was considering selling my house. Before I listed, my realtor pulled title and discovered that the 2nd is still on there under "Countrywide". I called Countrywide and they sent me a "Goodbye Letter" stating that they transferred my 2nd to RTR in 2009 and that my account is closed with them (Countrywide). I called my realtor's title company to see if I owed this $93K and they informed me that the 2nd would be taken out during escrow at whatever amount the 2nd said I owed, unless I work something out with them and get the 2nd lien removed. At the advice of an attorney (not my current attorney), I called RTR and they said that I owe $93K plus another $49K in interest! I was very careful not to say anything that would re-start the clock and told them that my attorney would be contacting them. My attorney then wrote them a strong letter basically telling them to show what they have that would give them assignment of my account. He said that we would be getting a quiet title if they did not show that they rightfully owned my account and acquired it legally. He sent them the letter about 2 weeks ago and we have heard nothing. I'm praying that they do not have the promissory note and deed and/or that there is a break in the chain. Seems like that could be the case since the transfer was never recorded/ filed but my loan is a MERS loan so I guess technically they don't have to. Has anyone been in this same situation? Any advice would be appreciated. RTR sent me a letter in 2014 offering to settle for $9K and then another letter in 2015 offering to settle for $50K. I haven't been offered any settlement letters after that. If I have to go file a quiet title suit it will cost $5-$10K if Im lucky (that's if I get a default judgment) and it would take 6 months or longer. I would honestly rather just settle with them and get them to remove the lien so that I can list my house. I know that I should not tell them that I want to sell my house because they will never settle with me and want the full amount. How do I come up with a settlement amount to offer them? What do these types of old 2nd's usually settle for? And what about this $49K in interest? Should I even add that into the equation? I don't even think charging that much interest is legal (especially if they don't legally own my account). On the flip side, I've been told that if they do really have rights to my account, they could now foreclose on me. Would they foreclose without writing us back? I know they are going to look up my property and see that I have equity to pay them. My attorney said that they they could foreclose if they have the original deed and proof that they acquired/purchased it legally but they must be able to show the paper trail. Please help! Thanks.
 

shedend

LoanSafe Member
Apr 3, 2018
1
0
1
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this thread and this is my first post. I need some help in settling a very old 2nd Countrywide HEL that was taken out in 2005 for $93K. The last payment I made was in 2008 and after about a year it was sold/transferred to RTR ( Real Times Resolution-a creditor) in 2009. I was told by my attorney at that time that if they didn't sue me & get a judgement for 4 yrs (since the date of my past payment...Im in California) that I would be free from owing the debt. I know now that this is not true....my lawyer back then was extremely confident about this and so I never questioned it until recently when I saw I had a 2nd lien on title.. RTR did not do anything for the 4 yrs except send me letters (ironically none of them in 10 yrs have said "Foreclosure"...just asked to settle or work something out). They sent me letters until Oct 2017 and honestly, every time I got a letter I just ignored it and thought nothing of it. Well, here we are in 2018 and I have equity in my home now and I was considering selling my house. Before I listed, my realtor pulled title and discovered that the 2nd is still on there under "Countrywide". I called Countrywide and they sent me a "Goodbye Letter" stating that they transferred my 2nd to RTR in 2009 and that my account is closed with them (Countrywide). I called my realtor's title company to see if I owed this $93K and they informed me that the 2nd would be taken out during escrow at whatever amount the 2nd said I owed, unless I work something out with them and get the 2nd lien removed. At the advice of an attorney (not my current attorney), I called RTR and they said that I owe $93K plus another $49K in interest! I was very careful not to say anything that would re-start the clock and told them that my attorney would be contacting them. My attorney then wrote them a strong letter basically telling them to show what they have that would give them assignment of my account. He said that we would be getting a quiet title if they did not show that they rightfully owned my account and acquired it legally. He sent them the letter about 2 weeks ago and we have heard nothing. I'm praying that they do not have the promissory note and deed and/or that there is a break in the chain. Seems like that could be the case since the transfer was never recorded/ filed but my loan is a MERS loan so I guess technically they don't have to. Has anyone been in this same situation? Any advice would be appreciated. RTR sent me a letter in 2014 offering to settle for $9K and then another letter in 2015 offering to settle for $50K. I haven't been offered any settlement letters after that. If I have to go file a quiet title suit it will cost $5-$10K if Im lucky (that's if I get a default judgment) and it would take 6 months or longer. I would honestly rather just settle with them and get them to remove the lien so that I can list my house. I know that I should not tell them that I want to sell my house because they will never settle with me and want the full amount. How do I come up with a settlement amount to offer them? What do these types of old 2nd's usually settle for? And what about this $49K in interest? Should I even add that into the equation? I don't even think charging that much interest is legal (especially if they don't legally own my account). On the flip side, I've been told that if they do really have rights to my account, they could now foreclose on me. Would they foreclose without writing us back? I know they are going to look up my property and see that I have equity to pay them. My attorney said that they they could foreclose if they have the original deed and proof that they acquired/purchased it legally but they must be able to show the paper trail. Please help! Thanks.
Hi Sdbeachgirl
I read your post with interest… although we are the other side of the country (NH), our situation has a number of similarities especially around the dates. Unlike you, we are not trying to sell our house but we are trying to settle RTR’s claim for other reasons. Like you, we had a 2nd mortgage HEL from Countrywide (2004). It seems to have gone via BOA to RTR. Like you we’d like to know what they have that would give them assignment of our account. I checked the County records (after reading your post) and there is a lien under "Countrywide".
Like you, our loan is a MERS. RTR sent me a letter in Dec 2014 offering to settle for $9K (they say 10% of “loan” but must include interest and other charges etc) and then pretty much an annual letter saying “you still owe us” but no offers. I called a month ago to see if the settlement offer was still available – first time I’d called them. We just got back a letter saying that our account is being transferred to Loss Mitigation and expect to hear from them again by 4/28/2018. I don’t think it would make any sense for them to foreclose on us (assuming they have a legal right) as Chase has the first call on proceeds of a sale, there would be very little left then and we could go bankrupt to stop that anyway. I don’t know if it’s any help knowing that others have situations based on the same original problem? Anyway, thought it might help to know that we are transferred to their Loss Mitigation.
Very good luck with your situation. We are interested to know how it progresses.
 

Erik Sandstrom

Mortgage Expert - Call 1-619-379-8999
Staff member
Loan Safe Mortgage
Jan 14, 2011
2,050
161
63
San Diego, California
www.loansreduced.com
This is why I love our LoanSafe community! We have some very dedicated members like you Shedend that are experiencing things very similar to our new members. Thank you, thank you thank you for sharing your experience and piggy backing onto this thread.

SDBeachGirl,
Everything that you have mentioned in your post is what you should be doing to achieve your goal. I personally am not the best to chat about any legal action or quiet title info but there was something in your post that I thought I would answer. You asked what a good settlement offer is. From my knowledge and experience being on LoanSafe watching our other members successfully settle 2nd liens, they usually start around a 5% offer and then go up to no more than 10%. The only variable that may be different in your case is that you have equity. Once the 2nd lien holder finds out that you may have equity it can be very difficult to get them to settle.

I'm not sure how accurate this next statement is but I have also seen our members change the data on Zillow (reduce the number of bedrooms & square footage) just in case the 2nd lien holder is going onto Zillow to determine potential value. When you adjust the data that Zillow has, it will change the "Zestimate" as they call it.

I see you're in California and your user name is SDBeachGirl - are you here in San Diego? All of our moderators, owners and staff here at LoanSafe are all located here or very close to San Diego.
 

Jzone

LoanSafe Member
Jun 20, 2017
157
19
18
69
Most loans can be sold or assigned. If your county register of deeds has the original on file, it most likely is still valid, even if it has been sold/assigned several times.

Anyone trying to sell, needs to keep that info to themself. Once the collector knows you want to sell, they have the upper hand. I would counter any offer starting at 5% of the balance and see what happens.

Thats what I did with mine. I filed bankruptcy but still have a lein with 2nd mortgage holder. Still waiting on them, but I was the last one to make an offer and they never responded. Going on two years now.
 

sdbeachgirl

LoanSafe Member
Mar 3, 2018
9
0
1
Hi Sdbeachgirl
I read your post with interest… although we are the other side of the country (NH), our situation has a number of similarities especially around the dates. Unlike you, we are not trying to sell our house but we are trying to settle RTR’s claim for other reasons. Like you, we had a 2nd mortgage HEL from Countrywide (2004). It seems to have gone via BOA to RTR. Like you we’d like to know what they have that would give them assignment of our account. I checked the County records (after reading your post) and there is a lien under "Countrywide".
Like you, our loan is a MERS. RTR sent me a letter in Dec 2014 offering to settle for $9K (they say 10% of “loan” but must include interest and other charges etc) and then pretty much an annual letter saying “you still owe us” but no offers. I called a month ago to see if the settlement offer was still available – first time I’d called them. We just got back a letter saying that our account is being transferred to Loss Mitigation and expect to hear from them again by 4/28/2018. I don’t think it would make any sense for them to foreclose on us (assuming they have a legal right) as Chase has the first call on proceeds of a sale, there would be very little left then and we could go bankrupt to stop that anyway. I don’t know if it’s any help knowing that others have situations based on the same original problem? Anyway, thought it might help to know that we are transferred to their Loss Mitigation.
Very good luck with your situation. We are interested to know how it progresses.
Hi there! I just did a post updating my situation. I'm curious as to where you are at with their Loss Mitigation department. Did they accept the 10% you offered? Talk soon!
 

sdbeachgirl

LoanSafe Member
Mar 3, 2018
9
0
1
This is why I love our LoanSafe community! We have some very dedicated members like you Shedend that are experiencing things very similar to our new members. Thank you, thank you thank you for sharing your experience and piggy backing onto this thread.

SDBeachGirl,
Everything that you have mentioned in your post is what you should be doing to achieve your goal. I personally am not the best to chat about any legal action or quiet title info but there was something in your post that I thought I would answer. You asked what a good settlement offer is. From my knowledge and experience being on LoanSafe watching our other members successfully settle 2nd liens, they usually start around a 5% offer and then go up to no more than 10%. The only variable that may be different in your case is that you have equity. Once the 2nd lien holder finds out that you may have equity it can be very difficult to get them to settle.

I'm not sure how accurate this next statement is but I have also seen our members change the data on Zillow (reduce the number of bedrooms & square footage) just in case the 2nd lien holder is going onto Zillow to determine potential value. When you adjust the data that Zillow has, it will change the "Zestimate" as they call it.

I see you're in California and your user name is SDBeachGirl - are you here in San Diego? All of our moderators, owners and staff here at LoanSafe are all located here or very close to San Diego.
Yes, I'm in North County San Diego...love it here. :) I really like this site and I'm very appreciative that it's available for people like me.
 

Erik Sandstrom

Mortgage Expert - Call 1-619-379-8999
Staff member
Loan Safe Mortgage
Jan 14, 2011
2,050
161
63
San Diego, California
www.loansreduced.com
Fantastic! I'm more central here in San Diego and we definitely appreciate the feedback. My office is here in La Jolla, UTC area if you ever need anything or have any loan questions - let me know.