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OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
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I submitted the RMA almost three weeks ago. They have only reached out to do the internal BPO. They have not requested any additional documentation, something that my not-yet-retained attorney told me was strange. I've contacted them multiple times and they've told me that they have everything they need and that I should expect something "within days".

I'm actually in the process of combining households with a financially contributing partner, but I'm not exactly thrilled about the prospect of asking them to reveal personal financial information to save a home that is not in either of our names.

For clarity, I moved back into the home alone. My 'temporarily disabled' father, the owner/borrower, has been living in a facility situation for more than a year now. That income is ONLY his and is fixed.
Whatever you do, DO NOT let SPS know that the borrower is not living in the home, much less in a facility. As for as they are concerned, you and him all live together in the home — and it’s been his permanent residence for at least the last two years.

If they realize the true scope of the situation, not only will they deny the modification and ONLY offer you a short sale or deed-in-leu, but they’ll mark the account as “No Foreclosure Alternative Possible”... and the Attorney for Detutsche Bank will use that in court to Fast Track the case.

I’m currently in the process of dealing with SPS myself, and have dealt with them in the past. It’s kinda strange they are doing a BPO for the home, unless they are considering you for Short Sale.

Wait and see if they send you anymore documents or a possible “Trial Plan”... for the loan. If they deny you, I would re-apply with only one additional person in the mix, and I would use a separate checking account from your significant other when submitting the documents.
 
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SoundsoftheSuburbs

LoanSafe Member
Aug 6, 2020
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Whatever you do, DO NOT let SPS know that the borrower is not living in the home, much less in a facility. As for as they are concerned, you and him all live together in the home — and it’s been his permanent residence for at least the last two years.

If they realize the true scope of the situation, not only will they deny the modification and ONLY offer you a short sale or deed-in-leu, but they’ll mark the account as “No Foreclosure Alternative Possible”... and the Attorney for Detutsche Bank will use that in court to Fast Track the case.

I’m currently in the process of dealing with SPS myself, and have dealt with them in the past. It’s kinda strange they are doing a BPO for the home, unless they are considering you for Short Sale.

Wait and see if they send you anymore documents or a possible “Trial Plan”... for the loan. If they deny you, I would re-apply with only one additional person in the mix, and I would use a separate checking account from your significant other when submitting the documents.
I called again today. The BPO actually came back at $674k. They said the repair costs were only around $20k, and the after repair value was over $700k. This is laughable. I am so frightened that they are going to take this home away. I've put a significant amount of my own money into maintenance and improvements. Bankruptcy is an option we are considering, but from what I know, I worry about the feasibility of paying the $100k+ arrears over the period of time Chapter 13 requires. Such a mess.
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
596
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I called again today. The BPO actually came back at $674k. They said the repair costs were only around $20k, and the after repair value was over $700k. This is laughable. I am so frightened that they are going to take this home away. I've put a significant amount of my own money into maintenance and improvements. Bankruptcy is an option we are considering, but from what I know, I worry about the feasibility of paying the $100k+ arrears over the period of time Chapter 13 requires. Such a mess.
The $674-700K BPO is GOOD for you, even though it's low. They use that number when calculating numbers for their Modification Program. In there spreadsheets, you owe about $750k, on a $674k home, that they *may* be able to sell for $630-650k after foreclosing on it. It may not reflect the true reality, of the home's value, but, it's beneficial that they have it wrong. In their mind, here is some homeowner willing to repay a "underwater" home.

To answer your other question -- in Chapter 13 Bankruptcy, which we refer to as the "Nuclear" option, they may be more willing to work out a special modification to catch up and balloon some of the arrears. This part really is random, and I would say is based on the shade of the moon, for that day. It's a total coin toss, but, they may be willing to do it. This new mod would consist of the original mortgage payment, plus some of the arrears due... or a new workout - probably with a 40 or 30yr Amortization.

I think this loan was modified under HAMP about a decade ago. Does that make a difference?
At this point, no. At a certain time in the past (like 2013/2014) some servicers would only allow you to get one Loan Mod or HAMP Mod during the life of the loan.
 

SoundsoftheSuburbs

LoanSafe Member
Aug 6, 2020
15
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The $674-700K BPO is GOOD for you, even though it's low. They use that number when calculating numbers for their Modification Program. In there spreadsheets, you owe about $750k, on a $674k home, that they *may* be able to sell for $630-650k after foreclosing on it. It may not reflect the true reality, of the home's value, but, it's beneficial that they have it wrong. In their mind, here is some homeowner willing to repay a "underwater" home.

To answer your other question -- in Chapter 13 Bankruptcy, which we refer to as the "Nuclear" option, they may be more willing to work out a special modification to catch up and balloon some of the arrears. This part really is random, and I would say is based on the shade of the moon, for that day. It's a total coin toss, but, they may be willing to do it. This new mod would consist of the original mortgage payment, plus some of the arrears due... or a new workout - probably with a 40 or 30yr Amortization.



At this point, no. At a certain time in the past (like 2013/2014) some servicers would only allow you to get one Loan Mod or HAMP Mod during the life of the loan.
They uploaded two letters, one saying that 'customer opted out' of being reviewed for short sale and retention options—obviously not true. The second letter said that we were not approved for anything besides deed-in-lieu of foreclosure.

I reviewed the letter with the representative on the phone and I noticed that the monthly gross income was listed as $0.00. I told her that I had called almost daily and was concerned that no income documents were requested. She said she needed to look into why that was the case, and then came back saying that the income was irrelevant to their decision—it was just because "the numbers didn't work." She said that the reason I was rejected for the "proprietary trial modification" was "[w]e are unable to offer you this program because in performing our underwriting of a potential modification we could not reduce your principal and interest payment." I never asked for a principal or interest reduction. I need the arrears added to the back end or re-amortized because we do not have over $100k to pay in a lump sum to reinstate.

In my hardship letter, I specifically offered to pay more than the current payment over the remainder of the mortgage. I was rejected for the repayment plan because it had been previously offered, but the previous offers were insane. They were requesting over $7k/month plus a balloon payment of over $50k at the end of 8 +/- months. We could not afford that. We could not believe that they would even offer that. Every single person that I have talked to has said that this loan is modifiable. Are Deutsche Bank and Select Portfolio Servicing simply in the business of taking homes? I don't know what to do.
 

SoundsoftheSuburbs

LoanSafe Member
Aug 6, 2020
15
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The NPV is full of errors beyond the $0/month income, including my late mother's credit information—she's been dead for 7 years.

The "Proposed Modification Information" offers a monthly payment that is perfect. I do not understand why it is denied.
 

SoundsoftheSuburbs

LoanSafe Member
Aug 6, 2020
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I finally got through to an SPS supervisor, and they told me that it was automatically denied because the modified monthly payment was higher than the current monthly payment. They say that's an automatic denial.
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
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The NPV is full of errors beyond the $0/month income, including my late mother's credit information—she's been dead for 7 years.

The "Proposed Modification Information" offers a monthly payment that is perfect. I do not understand why it is denied.
You need to appeal. I will be online a little bit later, but, you need to start preparing a appeal letter. And a NEW RMA Form, with income documents, etc.

I would also state repeatedly, that you are considering bankruptcy. Work that into the conversation however you can, but, repeatedly say it. They'll add it as a note on the account, and maybe someone will take the file more seriously.
 
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SoundsoftheSuburbs

LoanSafe Member
Aug 6, 2020
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You need to appeal. I will be online a little bit later, but, you need to start preparing a appeal letter. And a NEW RMA Form, with income documents, etc.

I would also state repeatedly, that you are considering bankruptcy. Work that into the conversation however you can, but, repeatedly say it. They'll add it as a note on the account, and maybe someone will take the file more seriously.
I really do not want my father to file for bankruptcy at nearly 70 years old and no dischargeable debts (he does have some tax debt). But, we do accept that it needs to be on the table. He has apparently spoken to an attorney about it, and she recommended holding off a few months back.
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
643
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SoundoftheSuburbs - My tip for you is to switch to a cell phone and download an automatic call recorder for these "negotiations." Make sure these are saved and accessible on a separate drive or cloud account.Test it with a friend so you know how it works. (Also take written notes - but you can verify documentation from the recording) Whether this is legal or not in your state to "record without an announcement," you are free to do this for your personal note-taking. Plus, typically you will have the (SPS - servicer's) recorded announcement that "all calls are recorded" while you are on hold, so it (legality) should not be an issue. If you think it is, announce it and wait for them to "suddenly change their tune!"
 

SoundsoftheSuburbs

LoanSafe Member
Aug 6, 2020
15
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1
The situation has now gotten funkier. SPS is now calling most weekdays repeating that the only options on the table are past due reinstatement or deed in lieu of foreclosure. My father has now made enough unexpected progress that he is poised to leave the facility within the next week or so. Even so, in the last several days, he has signed a 5-year lease over the whole house to my partner for market rate (higher than the existing and proposed modified mortgage payment). My partner is willing to be listed as a non-borrower contributor, but we both wanted to protect ourselves and therefore encouraged my father to sign this lease agreement. After our denial, they claimed that they could not approve the modification because the resulting 40-year payment was higher than the existing payment per Deutsche policy. At this point, I don't really know what to say to SPS and how to get them and Deutsche Bank to cooperate.
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
596
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The situation has now gotten funkier. SPS is now calling most weekdays repeating that the only options on the table are past due reinstatement or deed in lieu of foreclosure. My father has now made enough unexpected progress that he is poised to leave the facility within the next week or so. Even so, in the last several days, he has signed a 5-year lease over the whole house to my partner for market rate (higher than the existing and proposed modified mortgage payment). My partner is willing to be listed as a non-borrower contributor, but we both wanted to protect ourselves and therefore encouraged my father to sign this lease agreement. After our denial, they claimed that they could not approve the modification because the resulting 40-year payment was higher than the existing payment per Deutsche policy. At this point, I don't really know what to say to SPS and how to get them and Deutsche Bank to cooperate.
It sounds as though, bankruptcy may be the only card left
 

SoundsoftheSuburbs

LoanSafe Member
Aug 6, 2020
15
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1
Would you recommend telling SPS about the fact that there is a lease on the property that will not expire until 2026? Imagine trying to sell a home with tenants until 2026...
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
596
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Would you recommend telling SPS about the fact that there is a lease on the property that will not expire until 2026? Imagine trying to sell a home with tenants until 2026...
No. Don't do that.

The "lease" may hold up in court, if the bank foreclosed. But, right now, I would want them to think that the home is owner-occupied, and you are desperate for a modification.



Did you appeal the first denial?
 

SoundsoftheSuburbs

LoanSafe Member
Aug 6, 2020
15
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1
No. Don't do that.

The "lease" may hold up in court, if the bank foreclosed. But, right now, I would want them to think that the home is owner-occupied, and you are desperate for a modification.



Did you appeal the first denial?
Ok. The home is 'owner-occupied' come October 1st. We are going to try to have him at home...

Also -- did you look into a potential refinance?
We haven't looked into a refinance seriously because everyone has told us that it is impossible to get a refinance when you are behind on your mortgage. This whole thing has pushed my dad's score into the mid-to-upper 500s.

I have an attorney who I have not retained trying to give me some advice. All of these attorneys seem like chaotic personalities who don't even know all of the details, to be honest. My dad has gone through two already, one who tried to push him into a short sale as an apparent stall tactic. But, stalling was never the objective. We just want to resume making payments with the confidence that the home won't be taken away because of the arrearages.
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
596
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We haven't looked into a refinance seriously because everyone has told us that it is impossible to get a refinance when you are behind on your mortgage. This whole thing has pushed my dad's score into the mid-to-upper 500s.
Oh yeah, he's definitely not going to qualify for ANY sort of Conventional Refinance or Purchase for years. The only option he would have is to take a form of a Subprime "NON-QM" loan, and I'm not even sure he would qualify for that. The rates would also be brutal -- probably in the 6 - 7% range.

What I was thinking, was one of you & maybe your partner, refinancing the mortgage into your name, or your father "selling" the house to you -- and you taking out a conventional mortgage against it.
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
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Ok. The home is 'owner-occupied' come October 1st. We are going to try to have him at home...
That is a good thing.

Also -- as for bankruptcy, it sounds like your father has already tanked his credit score. A B/K wouldn't destroy it much further than it already has sunken to, and may boost the score slightly. This is still the nuclear option, but I want you guys to be somewhat comfortable with it. I also think SPS may be willing to do a "bankruptcy mod" or "loan restructuring" --- if he files.


I have an attorney who I have not retained trying to give me some advice. All of these attorneys seem like chaotic personalities who don't even know all of the details, to be honest. My dad has gone through two already, one who tried to push him into a short sale as an apparent stall tactic. But, stalling was never the objective. We just want to resume making payments with the confidence that the home won't be taken away because of the arrearages.
You've also need to understand, and will learn overtime -- there are no "foreclosure" or "debt" lectures, or studies in Law School. Many of these attorneys, just look at the issue from a contractual prescriptive and nothing else. You will need to find someone in your area, who has ACTUALLY had experience working on ton's of these cases, and those kinds of lawyers can be hard to find.

Not that I really believe they can do any magic, that you can't do in your current situation, but I just wanted to say it.
 

SoundsoftheSuburbs

LoanSafe Member
Aug 6, 2020
15
0
1
That is a good thing.

Also -- as for bankruptcy, it sounds like your father has already tanked his credit score. A B/K wouldn't destroy it much further than it already has sunken to, and may boost the score slightly. This is still the nuclear option, but I want you guys to be somewhat comfortable with it. I also think SPS may be willing to do a "bankruptcy mod" or "loan restructuring" --- if he files.



You've also need to understand, and will learn overtime -- there are no "foreclosure" or "debt" lectures, or studies in Law School. Many of these attorneys, just look at the issue from a contractual prescriptive and nothing else. You will need to find someone in your area, who has ACTUALLY had experience working on ton's of these cases, and those kinds of lawyers can be hard to find.

Not that I really believe they can do any magic, that you can't do in your current situation, but I just wanted to say it.
Having talked with the accountant today, I think that bankruptcy is imperative. We have to find a way to stop them and need to put more pressure on them to look at this loan. I don't feel like I'm getting anywhere going through their process. I think they're literally just trying to distract me.
 

Survivor_IN

LoanSafe Member
Jun 2, 2008
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Is it possible to have the lease include an agreement to purchase at x dollars at year 5 in the lease? Just spitballing a way to take over your father's liabilities and retain rights to the property as a tennant (while waiting for credit issues on the mortgage are resolved.) In this case, he would still be living with you because, well, you are taking care of an elderly parent. I don't know if this creates issues of law but it could create contractual rights. I have considered leasing with option to buy as a way to obligate the pretender lender to a pre-existing contract so they don't have claims to evict anyone in a potential future foreclosure.