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kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,268
171
63
Probably a sore subject just now, I didn't mean to offend anyone. Perhaps we're all a bit shell shocked from everything our nation's gone through.

As I said my concerns aren't partisan or political. My feeling is that the character of the person we elect to lead this country is the most essential consideration. If a leader lacks integrity, empathy, truthfulness and an unwavering dedication to the welfare of the people of this country (or even the capacity to make that appearance) then we're screwed. A leader sets the example of the type of people we aspire to be. A good leader inspires people to be better than they are and makes a nation stronger. Alternately, if a President is dishonest, vindictive, boastful, unreliable, childish and self-serving it gives license to that sort of behavior and those tendencies flourish. It's just a behavioral inevitability.

Krafty, in much of your argument you were making my point: that misbehavior has been rampant but I'm sure you'd agree that one doesn't cancel out the other. OHM, you may have misconstrued my disapproval of Trump as an indication that I'm a Democrat though I'm not.

I am not defending Democrats or attacking Republicans. In fact the points I'm making are the same ones made by people like John McCain, Mitt Romney, John Kelley, Jim Mathis and countless other Republicans who've spoken out against Trump and questioned his fitness to serve on the basis of his character. Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger made this powerful video voicing his concerns.
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I do agree that one does not cancel out the other--but at the same exact time, I would like an honest answer from anyone as to why this current theme of cancel culture should be acceptable to anyone. The left just proved to the world in our politics that the end justifies the means to them. Yes, I would LOVE to see someone with integrity and character run for office....but while the left (and some of the right as well) just wasted the entire last 4 years doing nothing more than bashing Trump, they all let us all down...completely. And do you know what they just got for all that effort?

They got the flip side of the same coin as Trump. No, seriously. Even worse in some particular points. Hear me out on this.

The left bashed Trump endlessly about "bone spurs". Did Trump actually have them? Don't know. He at least had a doctor sign off on it. But why did no one on the left actually even know that Biden did worse than Trump did to dodge the draft and avoid Vietnam? Biden took five deferments...and then, when college was no longer a suitable excuse, he claimed that he had had asthma as a teenager. This did not require a doctor, and was an automatic disqualifier for the draft except if there were a national emergency here in the US. Go back and look at Biden's teenage years....he was a star football player in high school. He worked summers as a lifeguard. He even wrote a book, in which he never mentioned any such ailment in his teenage years. In fact, his physical experiences in life show it was a lie....someone with an asthma condition back in those days would not be allowed to play high school sports or work as a lifeguard. He simply made it up. And the entire left cheered him on when he himself insulted Trump for avoiding military service.

But Trump's a racist, right? How does no one on the left recall---or even have the integrity themselves to research--Biden's first target when in office? His first major pursuit was to fight against desegregating schools and school bussing. Meanwhile, Trump gets bashed as a racist because the left pretends he said that "all Mexicans" are rapists and murderers....which he never even said. Mind you, Biden was actually forced to drop out of a presidential race because he made racially insensitive comments about Indian immigrants....but let's all ignore Biden's racism so we can lie about things Trump never actually said....lol. note this--CNN was forced to actually fire employees and issue a rare retraction over such fake comments that its reporters claimed Trump said.

So, Trump lies....yeah, we all know he does. So why does the left only care about dishonesty when they are attacking someone on the right? Anyone recall Biden getting caught making false claims about his own education, number of degrees, class standing, and a whole lot more? How does the left so intentionally ignore the fact that Biden was forced to drop out of his first presidential bid because he got caught plagiarizing speeches from politicians in different countries??

We could literally go on and on forever with this. Perhaps the worst is to watch Biden on video fondling young girls and sniffing their hair...as a dad of daughters, I promise you, that would not be allowed to continue if it were my child. For far too long, the left has made far too many excuses to blow off real problem behavior from its own, like Biden. Yeah, we want integrity. But if anyone here thinks that we got integrity because Biden was inaugurated? Please.....be honest.

Also, I know this won't be a popular comment, but integrity and truth do not require approval. There is legitimate physical evidence that the election was indeed tampered with. Data scientists dug into the elections in at least two states and were able to discover that votes were repeatedly removed from Trump's totals throughout the election night, and were done so in a strategic way as to coincide with increases as they were reported, so that you didnt see a bunch of decreases on the vote tally on the tv screen. Net result, Trump "lost" in Georgia by just under 12,000 votes but had literally tens of thousands of votes disappear from what was already attributed to him like a fart in the wind--including one actual SWAP which instantly took over 12,000 votes from Trump and immediately applied them to Biden. And, what's worse, this same nonpartisan research shows that it had to have been done manually, during the election, and even showed how just about any election or poll worker had access to the system to manually adjust the totals. The link below is a video from these nonpartisan data scientists explaining to the GA State Senate their findings. Please watch it, and then come back and tell me how Biden is even legitimately the president right now. And why should we all care? Simple---you're talking about integrity, right? What does this illegal and wildly improper action from the left say about the level of integrity that's in the White House right now?

 
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kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,268
171
63
I say " No more Political Views"anymore cause it hurts us, more than helps.

Politicians may destroy us all. so why facilitate?

I'm a firm believer in this thread .It has been bipartisan, and always will be.We always work things out, here. No reason to stop now, since we've come so far.....

Everyone is afraid ( as we all should be) but I say we stand together.

I have devoted a good portion of my life, to all of you, because you ALL mean something to me.
I do not ever want to lose any of you.I lost my house, most of you haven't yet. I bought another house, which is a new adventure. The new adventure has been bumpy & quite frankly sucks, but it is what is . It's life, if it doesn't go on, what does????
I respectfully don't agree.

Isis and I, for example, have disagreed politically on numerous occasions in here. Both she and I readily admit that zero harm has resulted in either of us. We are all bonded together because of our mortgage fights....but just like any other family, we're not going to agree on everything. And we're not supposed to agree on everything either. I have actually talked people down in here for going too far in such discussions, and pointed to the fact that in here we've always been able to disagree while still respecting all involved.

As for political discussions, they are necessary because we all need to be aware of truly what is happening to this country. It might not be a direct link at this moment to our mortgage fraud fight, but it's only a matter of time before it is. how do you think the system got so wildly turned against us? POLITICS, that's how. Those in power want to stay in power....they have made a lot of money and want to keep making more....and if we don't all wake up and pay attention, we're all going to be on the losing end.

I gratefully served this country....I bled for it. As I look around today, there is no word to convey what I'm feeling. This is going to get worse before it gets better....
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,268
171
63
Probably a sore subject just now, I didn't mean to offend anyone. Perhaps we're all a bit shell shocked from everything our nation's gone through.

As I said my concerns aren't partisan or political. My feeling is that the character of the person we elect to lead this country is the most essential consideration. If a leader lacks integrity, empathy, truthfulness and an unwavering dedication to the welfare of the people of this country (or even the capacity to make that appearance) then we're screwed. A leader sets the example of the type of people we aspire to be. A good leader inspires people to be better than they are and makes a nation stronger. Alternately, if a President is dishonest, vindictive, boastful, unreliable, childish and self-serving it gives license to that sort of behavior and those tendencies flourish. It's just a behavioral inevitability.

Krafty, in much of your argument you were making my point: that misbehavior has been rampant but I'm sure you'd agree that one doesn't cancel out the other. OHM, you may have misconstrued my disapproval of Trump as an indication that I'm a Democrat though I'm not.

I am not defending Democrats or attacking Republicans. In fact the points I'm making are the same ones made by people like John McCain, Mitt Romney, John Kelley, Jim Mathis and countless other Republicans who've spoken out against Trump and questioned his fitness to serve on the basis of his character. Republican Arnold Schwarzenegger made this powerful video voicing his concerns.
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Here's another video from data scientists who are examining the official numbers as they came from the official machines, this time in PA. Elections in this country are incremental--that means a candidate's vote total either stays the same, if they gained no votes during the most recent update, or it increases, as they gain additional votes that have been counted. Those totals should NEVER decrease....EVER. If you're a candidate and the last update showed you as having 100,000 votes, you should NEVER drop from that total for the remainder of the election. Yet, there's a very serious problem with this--and the data science proves that while Biden never suffered such drops in his vote counts, Trump did repeatedly, and in each of these battleground states. There is no legitimate way that this could happen. There simply isn't.


You know, we're all family here. I have nothing but respect for you and I hope you always know that. But this was an even bigger crime than what has been done to us in the mortgage fraud mess....because a party that does this can now ensure that it wins every future election....you literally just witnessed the death of democracy on November 3. And every last one of us should be angered to the core about this--no matter who you vote for. That any party can rig an election like this is the most shocking example of fraud ever perpetuated upon this country...and it was done from within. Ask yourself this question, all of you....if the candidate you voted for "lost" because of this fraud, would you view it differently than you're viewing it right now? Biden is not the legitimate president, and too many nonpartisan sources are presenting this information. It's not Trump. It's not Guliani. It's not Sydney Powell. It's groups of nonpartisan data scientists who are only observing the actual data from the election. I have asked a lot of people in a lot of forums and just talking face to face to refute these videos and the information in them. No one has been able to. But the media still runs around claiming that Trump "falsely says the election was stolen".

Remember a while back when we talked in here about the legal concept that fraud vitiates every thing? Well, "every thing" includes elections. I hope with everything that I stand for that people end up in prison for this treason. I really do.
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,268
171
63
I really couldn't care less what Mitt Romney or Arnold Schwarzenegger could say. As far as I'm concerned they have the same intelligence and value as the crazy crack-induced lunatics shouting out on the streets here. People like the "Lincoln Project" or Cindy McCain are pathetic grifters in my opinion, shamelessly willing to sell their souls for $7.


You have self-admitted to being a "Democratic Socialist" on numerous occasions in this thread.

Right now.... in our Capital. We have over 20,000 Men. Real Men. Who dropped everything they were doing at the drop of a Hat, and deployed to DC. What couldn't be more disgusting is the "purity" test, which was enforced upon them. To question a Man's Loyalty was just absolutely disgusting and shows the lack of care/regard for these individuals, some of which are volunteering and not being compensated.

And what kind of treatment did they get? Some Democratic members complained about their presence, those poor men being asked to sleep on backpacks, not beds, with no pillows or comforts of home. AND THEY WERE MOVED TO A FUCKING PARKING STRUCTURE.

A PARKING STRUCTURE. Never in my life has my blood come so close to boiling. You had 5,000 men, splitting two toilets. TWO. AND SLEEPING IN 38*F WEATHER. And what was in the world is this all about? All because some DC Elites couldn't stand being around them.

Not only that, but they are being held there.... all because of some "theory" or "claim" that there is an attack being planned, or rumor that something may happen. There is no substantive evidence, that has been shown or presented. As far as I'm concerned, this "attack" has about as much significance and validity as the Steele Dossier. And I'm sure we'll find out more about this later on.

We treat complete illegal immigrants who rush our border and completely make up bogus, bullshit asylum claims to gain access into this country, better than we treat our own men serving to protect this country. It is absolutely ludicrous.

And you wonder why I voted for our former president? The left is truly the party of complete hypocrisy and treason. Just please stop posting political junk. I'm asking nicely.
The ultimate picture of irony resides in the middle of that mess....

The exact same party that says walls don't work and that has assured us that they damn well are coming to take our guns, which they claim we don't need.....also decided to bring 25,000 armed troops to Biden's inauguration....and to build a wall all the way around the capitol for safety. This is a classic example of "the rules are for thee but not for me". Every last politician on the left that wants to take guns away....does anyone here actually believe they themselves don't have armed guards everywhere they travel? Or walls surrounding their homes like Pelosi has? We don't need any more hypocrisy in DC.
 
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isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
1,844
263
83
North bay
What disturbing is that you and I, Krafty, and the rest of the country are not working from a common set of assumptions largely due to the media. This makes everything beyond complicated. I'm reading Daily Beast, Axios, Politico, Atlantic, Rolling Stone, etc. You and others I expect are watching Breitbart, Fox News, Newsmax? If we're being fed contrary narratives unavoidably we'll be at odds in our interpretations.

But what if all of my news sources including Google and YouTube all of whom have emphasised the fairness of the election were wrong and your news sources were correct and there was voter fraud? Does that justify storming the Capitol? Is it constitutional for a group of citizens to attempt to overthrow Congress in the event of voter fraud?

But there are the "facts" such as Trump's speech, the rioters and the setting. I doubt a competent prosecutor would have any trouble getting a conviction for inciting violence because it doesn't require specificity. Trump didn't need to tell the mob to break in and engage in mayhem to be liable for the resulting violence and loss of life. What it requires is that a reasonable person would foresee the likelihood under the circumstances. Free speech doesn't protect words used in such circumstances in which there is a clear and present danger that they will provoke violence.

"The indoctrination of a group in preparation for future violent action, as well as exhortation to immediate action, by advocacy found to be directed to ‘action for the accomplishment’ of forcible overthrow, to violence ‘as a rule or principle of action,’ and employing the ‘language of incitement,’ . . . is not constitutionally protected when the group is of sufficient size and cohesiveness, is sufficiently oriented towards action, and other circumstances are such as reasonably to justify apprehension that action will occur.”

The impeachment is a joke - talk about a partial jury - and won't result in due process or anything approaching justice. They'll simply vote according to party and accomplish nothing worthwhile.

It's such a touchy situation. The President of the United States who 70 million people voted for committed a felony in plain sight. He threw Mike Pence, his own Vice President under the bus. If the mob shouting, "Hang Mike Pence," had found him and succeeded, Trump then would have been liable for his death under the law.

Under these circumstances how do we uphold the rule of law and at the same time heal as a nation?
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Nov 14, 2009
1,581
289
83
I think the mob has been dubbed . Trump is probably worrying more about his finance ( cheating on his tax) than COVID and government business.

I want the sheriff come to evict me so I can expose the fraud and the corruption to the world.
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,268
171
63
What disturbing is that you and I, Krafty, and the rest of the country are not working from a common set of assumptions largely due to the media. This makes everything beyond complicated. I'm reading Daily Beast, Axios, Politico, Atlantic, Rolling Stone, etc. You and others I expect are watching Breitbart, Fox News, Newsmax? If we're being fed contrary narratives unavoidably we'll be at odds in our interpretations.

But what if all of my news sources including Google and YouTube all of whom have emphasised the fairness of the election were wrong and your news sources were correct and there was voter fraud? Does that justify storming the Capitol? Is it constitutional for a group of citizens to attempt to overthrow Congress in the event of voter fraud?

But there are the "facts" such as Trump's speech, the rioters and the setting. I doubt a competent prosecutor would have any trouble getting a conviction for inciting violence because it doesn't require specificity. Trump didn't need to tell the mob to break in and engage in mayhem to be liable for the resulting violence and loss of life. What it requires is that a reasonable person would foresee the likelihood under the circumstances. Free speech doesn't protect words used in such circumstances in which there is a clear and present danger that they will provoke violence.

"The indoctrination of a group in preparation for future violent action, as well as exhortation to immediate action, by advocacy found to be directed to ‘action for the accomplishment’ of forcible overthrow, to violence ‘as a rule or principle of action,’ and employing the ‘language of incitement,’ . . . is not constitutionally protected when the group is of sufficient size and cohesiveness, is sufficiently oriented towards action, and other circumstances are such as reasonably to justify apprehension that action will occur.”

The impeachment is a joke - talk about a partial jury - and won't result in due process or anything approaching justice. They'll simply vote according to party and accomplish nothing worthwhile.

It's such a touchy situation. The President of the United States who 70 million people voted for committed a felony in plain sight. He threw Mike Pence, his own Vice President under the bus. If the mob shouting, "Hang Mike Pence," had found him and succeeded, Trump then would have been liable for his death under the law.

Under these circumstances how do we uphold the rule of law and at the same time heal as a nation?
With respect, no, your assumption is not quite correct.

I watch very little TV news because of the slant. I avoid Fox for the same reason I avoid CNN--because there is no honesty there. Instead, I get news from a range of online media sources from both sides. But this is important--you should go watch those videos I posted, they have zero to do with political slant or bias. Really. They are just discussing the official data from the election and what it proves. Never in the history of our elections has a candidate had so many votes taken away, so many times, during election day. Ever. It literally cannot happen unless there is fraud happening. I really wish you would not make this about left vs right and just watch those videos, they tell a very important story.

Also, let's talk about Trump's speech for a moment. To believe that he incited anything is to avoid the actual truth of the events. For example, the crowd that broke into the capitol building were already gathering there before Trump stood up to speak at his rally. Also, the streets of DC were shut down, meaning you had to walk to get anywhere. TRUTH--the site where Trump spoke was about a 45 minute walk from where the capitol building is. ANOTHER TRUTH--things at the capitol were starting to get out of control before Trump even finished speaking. A THIRD TRUTH--Trump even called for peaceful demonstration in his speech. If you look at all the facts and not just what one side or the other claims, you get the big picture. And that big picture is that Trump did not in any way incite those people to do anything illegal. A FOURTH TRUTH--a very well known and very violent far-left antifa protester was arrested for having been at the capitol that day. John Earle Sullivan was indeed at the capitol that day, he and his girlfriend posed as "MAGA" and broke in. They openly and repeatedly shouted encouragement to the crowd to take violent action. He actually caught the shooting of an unarmed woman on video while there. And then, as they walked away, they caught themselves on video admitting their scam. He is the founder of Insurgence USA, a far left group that is known for violence. John's brother James actually spoke out and said that over 200 antifa members were involved in this dishonesty, posing as Trump supporters and breaking into the capitol. Yes, some Trump supporters went way too far and every last one should be arrested and charged for their crimes. But you're not going to get the truth by only sticking to leftist reporting any more than I would if I stuck to Fox news.

By the time Trump was done speaking, the rioters had already begun breaking in. So it is a complete lie that people heard Trump speak, then walked over to the capitol and broke in. He stopped speaking around 1:10. The people who saw him speak, if they immediately left, and if they had no crowds to contend with, would not have reached the capitol until nearly 2pm.....and yet, the rioters got past the perimeter barriers just before Trump finished his speech, around 1pm. Since no one can be in two places at once, it is not possible for Trump to have "incited" people, who then took a 45 minute walk, and ended up breaking past the police line while they would still have been listening to Trump's speech. Not possible. But the left has not reported the timeline very much--or at all in most cases. I remember on TV that day, they were talking about how people were massing at the capitol all day. The facts really do matter. And here's also a thing--you cannot assume that Trump supporters got some hidden message in his speech without making an assumption that there was a hidden message. We deal in truth, not assumptions, when we talk of charging Trump--or anyone else, I would hope--with criminal activity. Trump simply did not ever call for anyone to be violent, to break laws, or anything else of the kind.

But I would like an honest answer--were you as concerned about inciting violence when politicians on the left made very public comments supporting the domestic terrorism that happened in places like Portland and Minneapolis over the last two years? We had actual cases of politicians actually supporting what was happening, and even calling for more of it. Maxine Waters literally and specifically told a crowd that they should harass Trump supporters and cabinet members anywhere they were seen in public---and even instructed people to go to the HOMES of Trump cabinet members to harass them there....at their own property. No kidding. Why did no one call for her to be charged with inciting violence? Instructing people to breach the peace, to intentionally harass others, to physically drive them from the public places they would be encountered in, is a crime in every state of this country. Maxine Waters was celebrated for her actions by the left. She's on video doing this:


Why should Trump be charged with inciting when he literally called for peaceful protest...but this crap gets a pass? Anyone??
 

arrgy

LoanSafe Member
Apr 19, 2019
18
9
3
Trump is definitely not guilty of directly inciting a riot. Trump is intelligent enough and has spent 4 years going as close to the line as possible without crossing into direct criminality. The question for me is, did he break his oath to perseve, protect and defend the constitution. Anyway, lots of wrong facts.

Its a 25 minute walk at most from the WH to the capitol when there is traffic on the street, I know, I have done it lots of times when I worked down there. When there is no traffic and the streets are closed, its easily a 20 minute walk, you aren't stopping for all the crosswalk and traffic down Constitution ave. At 12:15 Trump started his speech, at 12:17 he tells the crowd we are going to walk down the capital, take back your capital, you have to show strength, etc. Half of the crowd does leave at 12:17ish. They show up around 12:35ish and break the first barriers at 12:50. That was always the goal, to get to the capital by 1pm, since everyone knew it would start at 1. While your logic is somewhat correct, that you can't be at two places at once, you make it seem like everyone stayed to listen to Trump's entire speech and they all left after 1pm, which is clearly not the case. Every liberal, neutral and conservative media outlet agrees on that point. Talia Jane's twitter feed shows people going around the backside of the Treasury building and going down Constitution Ave. at 12:30, a good 45 minutes before Trump is done speaking. Did Trump incite, that is opinion, but he didn't do anything to stop it. He didn't call out the national guard or any other troops, which as president he has the authority to do. At 2:24 Trump tweets his garbage about Mike Pence, and then a few minutes late the hang Mike Pence chant begins. Then at 2:38 Trump tweets for the protestors to support the capitol police, not leave the capitol building, but support the police. So at 2:38 he knew what was going on, and at 3:36 Trump's press secretary tweets that Trump is sending out the National guard, an hour later. However, the Defense secretary stated afterwards that he only spoke to Pence, Pelosi and McConnell, never to Trump, this is confirmed by the Pentagon. So Trump knew what was going on, and did nothing to stop it, breaking his oath of office.

Your entire premise on the election in GA is so wrong, its laughable. I live and work in GA, my friends and co-workers live and work in GA, the thing your stupid video is leaving out is that every person who votes in person in GA gets a printed receipt with a bar code on it. They take that receipt and put it in the election box, GA specifically put this into place for our primaries the year before because we were concerned about cyber security and not having a backup. NO Where does your video even mention anything at all about the paper ballots and a backup. As a matter of fact, the state hand counted all 5 million plus votes and used the paper receipts as backup. Your video also states that a candidate receiving 75% or more of the vote in a precinct or county is abnormal and should never happen. Well Perdue received more then 75% of the vote in the following counties: Appling, Atkinson, Bacon, Banks, Bartow, Berrien, Bleckley, Brantley, Catoosa, Charlton, Chattooga, Clinch, Dade, Dawson, Echols, Fannin, Franklin, Gilmer, Glascock, Gordon, Habersham, Haralson, Hart, Heard, Irwin, Jackson, Jasper, Jeff Davis, Lumpkin, Madison, Montgomery, Murray, Pickens, Pierce, Pike, Polk, Rabun, Stephens, Union, Towns, Walker, Wayne. His opponent Ossoff got more then 75% in DeKalb and Clayton. So that is garbage.

And for God's sake, this is about what Trump did, two wrongs don't make a right. What Biden did or stood for years ago has nothing to do with the actions of the President. Sheesh.
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,268
171
63
Trump is definitely not guilty of directly inciting a riot. Trump is intelligent enough and has spent 4 years going as close to the line as possible without crossing into direct criminality. The question for me is, did he break his oath to perseve, protect and defend the constitution. Anyway, lots of wrong facts.
Yes, let's talk about your wrong facts.

Its a 25 minute walk at most from the WH to the capitol when there is traffic on the street, I know, I have done it lots of times when I worked down there.
Most direct route is 2.1 miles:

Average adult walking speed is 3-4 mph.

That means, at 3 mph, you're not getting there in 20 minutes. At 4 mph, you're getting there in just over a half hour. Any questions?

At 12:15 Trump started his speech, at 12:17 he tells the crowd we are going to walk down the capital, take back your capital, you have to show strength, etc.
Sorry, but no. You're here criticizing what I posted, and you can't even tell the truth yourself? um, nope. Trump did not tell them to "take back their capital". Let's look at what he really did say:


' ""I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard," Trump said in his speech. '

'He also said he and the crowd would "walk down to the Capitol" to "cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women." '

He told the crowd exactly what he had in mind. He said they would PEACEFULLY make their voices heard. He said they were going there to cheer on the Republicans fighting for the whole truth to come out. He actually also said that, for those who did not fight back, that they would "primary the hell out of them"--which is a direct reference to voting them out of office. At no time did he ever make any statement or tell anyone to do anything illegal at all. Period.


Half of the crowd does leave at 12:17ish. They show up around 12:35ish and break the first barriers at 12:50. That was always the goal, to get to the capital by 1pm, since everyone knew it would start at 1.
Which explains perfectly why Trump spoke until about 1:10, right? Because that was his plan all along?? LOL nope.

While your logic is somewhat correct, that you can't be at two places at once, you make it seem like everyone stayed to listen to Trump's entire speech and they all left after 1pm, which is clearly not the case. Every liberal, neutral and conservative media outlet agrees on that point. Talia Jane's twitter feed shows people going around the backside of the Treasury building and going down Constitution Ave. at 12:30, a good 45 minutes before Trump is done speaking.
Um, you do realize that there were not just two groups of people there that day, right? Individual pro-Trump groups set up the following independent gatherings that same day in the same area on January 5/6:

"Wild Protest", organized by a group called Stop the Steal
"The Silent Majority Rally", James Epley
"Rally to Revival" by the 80% Coalition
"Save the Republic Rally" by Moms of America
"One Nation Under God Rally", by Virginia Women for Trump
"Freedom Rally" by Virginia Freedom Keepers, Latinos for Trump, and United Medical Freedom

And then, there was also Trump's rally. just because someone saw people walking at the time Trump was speaking, doesn't mean they were actually where Trump was speaking at the time he was speaking. Thanks.

Did Trump incite, that is opinion
No, actually, it is not, because there is a legal definition to what "inciting violence" means. And when you call for peaceful protest, you're doing the exact opposite of inciting violence. But the left isn't too keen on pointing out how Trump called for PEACEFUL protest. I wonder why.

but he didn't do anything to stop it.
Stop what? You mean when the capitol police literally checked the time, moved barricades out of the way and literally waved the protesters in to get right up to the building?? Please, tell us how the capitol police themselves repeatedly made requests for USG assistance, and that those requests--which go to CONGRESS, by the way--were not honored. Congress oversees the Capitol Police, not Trump.

He didn't call out the national guard or any other troops, which as president he has the authority to do.
You mean the same federal help that the very same Capitol Police rejected repeatedly, including at the time you're claiming Trump did not act?


Multiple times, ranging from January 3, right up to the afternoon that you just detailed for us, the USG repeatedly reached out to Capitol Police and offered federal law enforcement help....every single time, it was rejected by the same police. If they were rejecting USG help, they were rejecting USG help. You cannot use hindsight to pretend that the picture at that time was as clearly known as it is today...well after the fact.

At 2:24 Trump tweets his garbage about Mike Pence, and then a few minutes late the hang Mike Pence chant begins. Then at 2:38 Trump tweets for the protestors to support the capitol police, not leave the capitol building, but support the police. So at 2:38 he knew what was going on, and at 3:36 Trump's press secretary tweets that Trump is sending out the National guard, an hour later. However, the Defense secretary stated afterwards that he only spoke to Pence, Pelosi and McConnell, never to Trump, this is confirmed by the Pentagon. So Trump knew what was going on, and did nothing to stop it, breaking his oath of office.
See above. The Capitol Police Dept is the only police department in the federal government system that is overseen by the legislative branch--NOT the executive branch, which is what the president oversees. CONGRESS had the responsibility, not Trump, of overseeing that department and ensuring that it had what it needed to address the situation. Congress failed.

Your entire premise on the election in GA is so wrong, its laughable. I live and work in GA, my friends and co-workers live and work in GA, the thing your stupid video is leaving out is that every person who votes in person in GA gets a printed receipt with a bar code on it.
Not one word of what you just said means anything because it's not detailed in the video specifically which votes were taken away, as in, where they come from. Plus, the data highlighted and used in that video is the official election data, which does not rely on every Georgia citizen to come forward and produce their voting receipt. The presence of a voting receipt is not relevant to the info in that video because at no time does GA compare all those receipts to their official count. All that is known is that the official data itself shows that votes were indeed subtracted from Trump. Just because you don't like the information, that alone does not make it "stupid".
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,268
171
63
They take that receipt and put it in the election box, GA specifically put this into place for our primaries the year before because we were concerned about cyber security and not having a backup. NO Where does your video even mention anything at all about the paper ballots and a backup.
The previous election cycle, in 2018, a federal judge ordered that GA officials stop refusing mail in ballots on the basis of signatures not matching. So there's that....Oh, and then there's this....less than a month before this election, this happened:


In other words, there was no backup that could be audited. So, again, before you try to criticize me about "wrong facts", you should ensure that your own are actually correct. Here, this could help you. Read the link below, it details how things were messed up in GA. Of particular note is the fact that the system in GA relies on the voting system to tell them how many ballots there were....which, as I showed you already, was notoriously susceptible to alterations. Some states can use their voter rolls to compare against the actual ballots cast, but GA cannot with the way it is set up. So, again, you're not telling us the truth about that. Don't insult me because you don't understand the facts, please.


As a matter of fact, the state hand counted all 5 million plus votes and used the paper receipts as backup.
Um, no, as I just showed you, there is no real backup. A vote is cast. That vote is electronically counted. I just showed you how the vote counts themselves are used--not the voter rolls--to determine accuracy in GA. So, if you alter the counts on election night, then use the ALTERED COUNT in a "hand count", you're not going to get to truth. All you're going to get to is the number of votes showing in the electronic system. If every electronic vote produces a receipt, then altering the vote count still produces the same....and the totals are still not accurate. And that comes straight from the guy who invented risk limiting audits in the first place, in that link. Confirming the electronic result is not the same as ensuring that only legit registered voters cast those votes. And that's the whole point.

And for God's sake, this is about what Trump did, two wrongs don't make a right. What Biden did or stood for years ago has nothing to do with the actions of the President. Sheesh.
For God's sake, no, it's about more than that. Because you're completely ignoring the truth that the general left intentionally looked the other way when its own politicians legitimately incited violence, supported violent protests, etc etc, but now those same exact people think they have any right to apply the opposite standard to Trump. THAT is the point. You're saying "two wrongs don't make a right"....while much of the left is not only pretending that Trump did far more than he actually did---but also pretending that it's only wrong if a conservative does it. THAT is the point. We don't need hypocrisy in this country. We need leadership...accountability.....one standard for both sides.....THAT is the point. And my points about Biden? Well, they were obviously completely lost on you. They were not posted to serve the purpose you seem to think they were. Perhaps you should go back and reread them. Maybe the second time you'll get it. My entire point in posting those things is that the double standard has to go. Not next year, not next month, but now. The nutjobs on the right that pretend Trump could do no wrong are just as guilty as the nutjobs on the left who intentionally play make believe while blasting Trump for doing things when their own candidate did the same--or worse. Problem is, a lot more of the left falls into that category than those on the right. There used to be a moderate left....it's gone now. Now, there are some liberals and a whole lot more leftists.
 

arrgy

LoanSafe Member
Apr 19, 2019
18
9
3
Your little duck duck go map....oh that is hysterical. First, Trump has his little rally on the south lawn of the white house, and your route by going through down and around the elipse is so laughable. Oh and lets not forget your ending put isn't even the capitol building on your map. You probably never have been to DC, I worked there. I worked there for five years at the post office building at 12th and Pennsylvania. I walked down there everyday for five years. Don't tell me because you put two WRONG points on the duck duck stupidwebsite that its accurate. No one in their right mind who wants to walk from the WH to Capital would take that route, and again the rally was on the SOUTH LAWN of the White House.

Oh Lord, you have no idea or clue about what we did down here in GA, your basic timeline, facts are so screwed up, you don't even know that we rechecked and recounted and audited 3 times. You don't even know that basic fact. After the election we did have that wonderful "audit" which shrunk Biden's lead and forced Trump to ask for a recount, which we did by hand. Every single ballot, you are confusing the audit which only looked at a sample of the vote in each county with the actual recount. Your so dumb, you don't even know that we had both an audit AND a recount. HAHAHA.

Your article is great, it states: "They basically skipped step zero. Instead, the counties evidently are constructing a ballot manifest, which the audit relies on, from what the computers report, rather than from ground truth on the amount of paper ballots there are. Your inventory of ballots should not rely at all on the voting system to tell you how many ballots you have. You should have control over that from external means. You know how many ballots went to a precinct. You know how many came back voted, spoiled or blank. You should be physically counting these things. That baseline shouldn’t be a function of the voting system. It starts with inventory control. "
Well guess what genius...they did this. They physically HAND COUNTED each and every single one of the 5 million ballots cast in what would be the THIRD recount, and checked the results with BOTH the board of elections and the board of registrars for each county. The state of GA DID WHAT THE AUTHOR OF THE ARTICLE SAID THEY SHOULD DO. HAHAHAHA


SO explain to me how you can alter the results if the machine shows 100 votes for Biden and 100 votes for Trump in a county, and at the same time you have 200 paper copies that show 100 votes for Biden and 100 for Trump with EACH AND EVERY printed receipt has its own unique bar code. If you were going to change votes, then you would have to find some way to alter the machine count and then at the same time find a way to print out exactly the same amount of votes that you wanted to change, and again, each with its own bar code. And never mind the fact you have to do this rather quickly and somehow do this with both parties watching. Do you honestly think that could happen, and again this is GA, what used to be one of the reddest states in the south. Oh and it was done AGAIN two weeks later in the senate run offs. Are you kidding me?

You also probably didn't know that the counties that had the 3 largest disparities:
  • Floyd County, where a box of about 2,600 uncounted ballots was discovered.
  • Fayette County, where about 2,700 ballots that had been scanned but not uploaded were found on a memory card.
  • Walton County, where about 300 votes that had been scanned but not uploaded were found on a memory card.
And what is hysterical about that audit. Is that all three of those counties are heavily, heavily Republican, all three went for Trump, Perdue, and Loeffler.

If you were such an expert in GA voting you would know that here in GA we have TWO separate voting and election boards in each county. One called the board of registrars which each county has, and is responsible for voting rolls, and making sure people who can vote do so. On election day both boards are open, and both do their job and they are both independent of each other, and in your small counties they actually are in the same office. It works like this...if a person goes to vote and is challenged or something is unusual, the Board of Elections then calls the board of registrars for that county. The Board of registrars then independently confirms the voter, that way there is no collusion. Again, you don't live in GA, you didn't vote in GA, you have no clue.

When I saw your duck duck stupid route that adds an extra half of a mile to the route, no one in their right mind would go north of the white house (if you were at the south lawn) then walk around the elipse of all things, instead of cutting down Pennsylvania ave. But that isn't even the issue we have independent video and video from these morons clearly showing them arrive at the capitol way before 1pm, which means yeah a whole bunch of people either didn't go to the rally or showed up and at 12:17 heard Trump say we are going to the capitol and they left.

I guess the next thing you are going to try and prove to me is the existence of these Jewish space lasers that started the fires in California.
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,268
171
63
Your little duck duck go map....oh that is hysterical. First, Trump has his little rally on the south lawn of the white house, and your route by going through down and around the elipse is so laughable. Oh and lets not forget your ending put isn't even the capitol building on your map. You probably never have been to DC, I worked there. I worked there for five years at the post office building at 12th and Pennsylvania. I walked down there everyday for five years. Don't tell me because you put two WRONG points on the duck duck stupidwebsite that its accurate. No one in their right mind who wants to walk from the WH to Capital would take that route, and again the rally was on the SOUTH LAWN of the White House.

Oh Lord, you have no idea or clue about what we did down here in GA, your basic timeline, facts are so screwed up, you don't even know that we rechecked and recounted and audited 3 times. You don't even know that basic fact. After the election we did have that wonderful "audit" which shrunk Biden's lead and forced Trump to ask for a recount, which we did by hand. Every single ballot, you are confusing the audit which only looked at a sample of the vote in each county with the actual recount. Your so dumb, you don't even know that we had both an audit AND a recount. HAHAHA.

Your article is great, it states: "They basically skipped step zero. Instead, the counties evidently are constructing a ballot manifest, which the audit relies on, from what the computers report, rather than from ground truth on the amount of paper ballots there are. Your inventory of ballots should not rely at all on the voting system to tell you how many ballots you have. You should have control over that from external means. You know how many ballots went to a precinct. You know how many came back voted, spoiled or blank. You should be physically counting these things. That baseline shouldn’t be a function of the voting system. It starts with inventory control. "
Well guess what genius...they did this. They physically HAND COUNTED each and every single one of the 5 million ballots cast in what would be the THIRD recount, and checked the results with BOTH the board of elections and the board of registrars for each county. The state of GA DID WHAT THE AUTHOR OF THE ARTICLE SAID THEY SHOULD DO. HAHAHAHA


SO explain to me how you can alter the results if the machine shows 100 votes for Biden and 100 votes for Trump in a county, and at the same time you have 200 paper copies that show 100 votes for Biden and 100 for Trump with EACH AND EVERY printed receipt has its own unique bar code. If you were going to change votes, then you would have to find some way to alter the machine count and then at the same time find a way to print out exactly the same amount of votes that you wanted to change, and again, each with its own bar code. And never mind the fact you have to do this rather quickly and somehow do this with both parties watching. Do you honestly think that could happen, and again this is GA, what used to be one of the reddest states in the south. Oh and it was done AGAIN two weeks later in the senate run offs. Are you kidding me?

You also probably didn't know that the counties that had the 3 largest disparities:
  • Floyd County, where a box of about 2,600 uncounted ballots was discovered.
  • Fayette County, where about 2,700 ballots that had been scanned but not uploaded were found on a memory card.
  • Walton County, where about 300 votes that had been scanned but not uploaded were found on a memory card.
And what is hysterical about that audit. Is that all three of those counties are heavily, heavily Republican, all three went for Trump, Perdue, and Loeffler.

If you were such an expert in GA voting you would know that here in GA we have TWO separate voting and election boards in each county. One called the board of registrars which each county has, and is responsible for voting rolls, and making sure people who can vote do so. On election day both boards are open, and both do their job and they are both independent of each other, and in your small counties they actually are in the same office. It works like this...if a person goes to vote and is challenged or something is unusual, the Board of Elections then calls the board of registrars for that county. The Board of registrars then independently confirms the voter, that way there is no collusion. Again, you don't live in GA, you didn't vote in GA, you have no clue.

When I saw your duck duck stupid route that adds an extra half of a mile to the route, no one in their right mind would go north of the white house (if you were at the south lawn) then walk around the elipse of all things, instead of cutting down Pennsylvania ave. But that isn't even the issue we have independent video and video from these morons clearly showing them arrive at the capitol way before 1pm, which means yeah a whole bunch of people either didn't go to the rally or showed up and at 12:17 heard Trump say we are going to the capitol and they left.

I guess the next thing you are going to try and prove to me is the existence of these Jewish space lasers that started the fires in California.

First thing's first. Get over yourself, and fast. Forever and a day in here, we've been able to have all sorts of discussion and disagreement without being disrespectful trolls about it. And then, you come along. Knock off the crap. If you cannot discuss like an adult, then don't discuss here. It's just that simple. you're not going to derail what this place has become because you need to stoke your own ego. Get the point?

Second, don't try to lecture me about what happens in GA...all the experts, even the guy that invented the audit process in the first place, have agreed with what I said. Just because you live there, that means literally nothing. So again, get over yourself. A hand recount is pointless because it literally does nothing except verify the total claimed outcome of votes. It does nothing to verify if any votes were legitmate, illegitimate, fraudulent, etc etc. Zero signature matching was done....why? Simple....because thanks to GA's process, the envelopes were separated from the ballots themselves, so that there was literally no way to track back all of the mail in ballots to make sure that every one had a corresponding envelope, a legitimate address, even an actual registered voter attached to it. So again, you can take your huffing and puffing and go blow somewhere else. I posted truth, and all you posted in response is to insult me. Sorry, but no. That's not tolerated here. Act like an adult, or seek life elsewhere. Your choice.

And no, I didn't mistake an audit for a recount. The "hand recount" you had is not an audit. It was not a sample. And it also was not what you claimed it to be, for the exact reasons I already stated twice now. Even the guy who invented the audit process was clear about this....and you were too busy trying to insult me to pay attention to his thoughts on the matter as well.

Grow up. Fast. Or, find some other thread and place to populate with your blind arrogance.
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Nov 14, 2009
1,581
289
83
Interesting article on servicer advance trust from NRZ. NRZ sells the servicer advance trusts' bonds to fund missing payments, then when the forbearance period ends sometime in the future, the homeowners can not pay, a new round of foreclosure begins. The same strategy used by the sub-prime, HELOC, payday lenders: sucking homeowners in distress into unaffordable loans backed by collaterals knowing the borrowers can not repay in the future and will be foreclosed. All made possible by the cheap capital provided by the Fed.
 
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moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Nov 14, 2009
1,581
289
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In my case a recovery trust owned by Ocwen and/or Bank of America is stealing from a sub-prime trust RAAC 2005 -RP3.

Our houses, taxpayers' dollars are at play for the big investors. We, our kids and grandkids are on the hook for any loss incurred by these scammers.
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,268
171
63
In my case a recovery trust owned by Ocwen and/or Bank of America is stealing from a sub-prime trust RAAC 2005 -RP3.

Our houses, taxpayers' dollars are at play for the big investors. We, our kids and grandkids are on the hook for any loss incurred by these scammers.
The LSF trusts don't seem to follow this same pattern, as far as I have seen.
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Nov 14, 2009
1,581
289
83
I was watching this video:
This guy made at least 2 million in 2019 and 2020 each. Maybe I can monetise by making a video about fighting illegal foreclosure for 11 years.
 
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isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
1,844
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North bay
Krafty,

I'm sorry I took so long to respond. I'm just about ready to take my case to federal court and that's had me a bit preoccupied.

Our differences of opinion are valuable to me. My regard for your intellect and character makes me consider points of view I'd otherwise discount.

As I watched the video you posted about voter fraud I realized I'd need more information to evaluate and then try to fact check it with the voter count for Allegany county. When I came back here to compare it to the video it was no longer available from YouTube. Unfortunately I didn't commit the numbers to memory but do remember them being widely different from the Allegany government site numbers.

A little searching on the topic brought me to Politifact. I don't know if they are an absolute authority or simply want to be perceived that way. (Wow, haven't we all become cynical)


Like you I try to listen to opposing points of view. This YouTube guy in particular who is convinced of voter fraud and equally certain he's going to get banned from the platform.

 
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kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,268
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Krafty,

I'm sorry I took so long to respond. I'm just about ready to take my case to federal court and that's had me a bit preoccupied.

Our differences of opinion are valuable to me. My regard for your intellect and character makes me consider points of view I'd otherwise discount.

As I watched the video you posted about voter fraud I realized I'd need more information to evaluate and then try to fact check it with the voter count for Allegany county. When I came back here to compare it to the video it was no longer available from YouTube. Unfortunately I didn't commit the numbers to memory but do remember them being widely different from the Allegany government site numbers.

A little searching on the topic brought me to Politifact. I don't know if they are an absolute authority or simply want to be perceived that way. (Wow, haven't we all become cynical)


Like you I try to listen to opposing points of view. This YouTube guy in particular who is convinced of voter fraud and equally certain he's going to get banned from the platform.

The politifact piece is especially entertaining, when you consider that even democrat politicians have been saying for years that paper ballots are very susceptible to fraud. We need look no further than Jerry Nadler, prominent Democrat, for this one. Way back in 2004, Nadler was caught on video saying this:


Additionally, that article very quickly glosses over some of the legal challenges made. For example, the article is quick to point to PA's election rules, but fails completely to mention the illegal modifications made to those rules. Under PA law, there is a very specific process by which any change to voting laws MUST be carried out. That process includes a vote of the people, not just a legislative act like they actually did. The PA legislature changed election laws without any authority to do so, according to the PA State Constitution. And as we have discussed here numerous times, any act without authority is null and void under the law. The leftist politicians in PA changed those laws without any lawful authority to do so, and those changes directly led to the massive and unchecked paper ballot problem. Before those changes, there were six very specifically defined and narrow circumstances by which a PA voter could vote via absentee ballot. They illegally changed the law to allow anyone to do so, and then made sure that the "new" law contained a provision that did not require any signature verification or even a complete ballot.

I guarantee you, if the Republicans tried a stunt like that, every Democrat politician in the land would be screaming about it.

Let's stop and think for a moment....do you remember when democrats spent the last 4 years claiming that Trump stole the election, that the Russian collusion got him elected? The very same people that spent the last 4 years claiming that a foreign entity can change the outcome of an election, are NOW the very same people that want to convince us that the election process is completely secure, and that no one can alter the outcome artificially. Make sense to you? Where was this position when they claimed falsely that Trump colluded with the Russians? Oh, and let's touch on that "russian collusion" for a moment--it was a Clinton campaign fabrication, carried out with Hillary's approval, and this comes from the top intelligence sources in the country at that time:


The "My Pillow" guy just released a 2 hour long video, and admittedly it is very amateurish....You or I could most likely have boiled that video down to about 45 minutes, lol. But in this video, he has acknowledged data experts discussing the official data for the election. There are a LOT of issues with hacking, mostly from China, and most of these just happen to coincide with the battleground states---and they started two days before the election. So, one could argue that they were not just being reactionary to the events after November 3. Another interesting thing that they found is that in some states, there were a significant number of, shall we say, ineligible voters. We're talking about people mail-in voting who don't even live in the state the vote was cast in......minors--yes, you still have to be 18 to vote, but at least one state had more than 20,000 votes cast by what now appear to be minors. Some states had dead voters, though not in the tens of thousands that some sources have claimed. Some states had mail in ballots cast for people who claimed a vacant lot or a PO box as their physical address--both of which are disqualifying events according to law. There are way too many issues with this. And here's the thing--why shouldn't these claims be investigated? If the democrats did nothing wrong, wouldn't it have been in their best interest to simply show their cards and prove it once and for all? Instead, please, consider what is actually happening. People are being banned from social media platforms.....some have actually lost their jobs.....because of their political affiliation???? Anyone here, can ANYONE point to that as a legitimate act from a side that did nothing wrong? The only time that one side seeks to so overwhelmingly silence the other is in cases like Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot.....Mao.....do you see my point??? Everyday average Americans are being singled out for "reeducation" according to even some of our democrat politicians serving right now. Who actually does this if they are not actually guilty?? The immediate and overreaching response from the left all by itself is so massively wrong that one cannot help but think that there's something being hidden.

I challenge anyone here to find any time in history where one side made such moves to silence any and all opposition, to such an extent as we are seeing right now, where nothing wrong took place. I'll wait. The cancel culture by itself proves that a whole lot is wrong here.