Bagels at a Bar Mitzvah

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
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I just received a notice that a five part series on the 2008 crisis will begin tonight at 8pm ET at this facebook site:


There is a trailer on youtube.

I have no idea about its quality or merits. I sure wish it had been available a decade ago, though.
Well I listened to most of that.

Here is my commentary, and keep in mind, I'm somewhat consider myself a equalizer and like to understand both sides of the story.

In that Documentary, they focus on some of the worst of the worst Mortgage Fraud that was going on. These were the loans that were extremely problematic for lenders like Countrywide or New Century, as the appraisals were totally bogus, and in some cases, inflated by as much as 2 or 3 times their actual value. These loans were also being combined with bogus full documentation like photoshopped bank statements, W-2's, and Tax Returns, or were being used with Stated Income and Asset figures.

These loans proved to be extremely costly as they typically were the loans that were forced to be purchased back by Wall St, when they went into Early Payment Default, and a Severe Loss was seen. Or, even worse, the Quality Control supervisors at the Originator (let's say Countrywide) would catch some of the fraud, and force the loan into a Scratch and Dent trust at a Severe Markdown to Value.

Countrywide, IndyMac, New Century, Option One, Etc... do not get completely off scott free here, though. They knew loans like this were making the way into the company's pipelines, and the loans were being funded and bundled for Wall Street Securitizations. I'm sure even Wall St knew some of the loans were outright defective. But, I do argue, that in a lot of cases, they had no clue just how bad the problem was, or how concentrated it was in certain areas.

I give a lot of doubt that no one would intentionally want to Risk $200k on a worthless $50k home. Especially, when it's Countrywide or Option One that WILL be eating that loss, when the loan goes sour.

This was a small segment, and not as widespread as the documentary would make it out to be. These were small gangs of people who took advantage of basically a overwhelmed, over-loaded assembly line that wasn't processing anything correctly.

The Real Fraud is Subjectable. But I would say it starts with Investment Banks like Goldman Sachs, purchasing a whole loan bundle from Indymac or Countrywide... Securitizing it into a Mortgage Backed Security, and then taking a short position on it -- as it's being sold to clients.
 

Annie Mac

LoanSafe Member
Aug 19, 2011
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Oregon
I do not believe that any report, book, or documentary can truly cover the entire landscape of the 2008 mess. There are still large chunks of it which have not surfaced and the bulk of the homeowners still do not know what hit them. What seemed important to me was this documentary made a point that this was not due to homeowners ; but the fraud which began first at the time of soliciting borrowers, the paperwork, the appraisals, and the belief that the homeowners trusted "the bank " of that loan, not realizing it was not a bank at all. (Something with the name of bank is not a bank.) This episode was framed around the experience of one homeowner in Akron, Ohio, but OHM is right; the real fraud expanded beyond comprehension with the securitization of those loans. This was one snapshot, with four more installments to come. Interesting timing, with an entirely new foreclosure wave on the horizon. The 2008 mess is not understood or digested yet, nor remedies in place, and now there is not time to come to terms with it before the tsunami hits. And here we are, Bagels still paddling around in our little rowboats in these waters.
 
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moretrouble

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Nov 14, 2009
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I am concentrating on the next phase of my litigation: unjust enrichment. We could argue the named trustee and servicer has suffered no loss, benefited handsomely, any title awarded to them would result in windfall and amount to unjust enrichment. If we were to foreclosed the titles should be to the taxpayers who bailed them out.
I think the Court of Appeals trys to burry my case by issuing no opinion. They can't say it's OK for BOfA to forge a note to steal a house in an opinon. On the other hand, can not have a pro se winning against 5 attys and 3 law firms. Just my though.
 
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OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
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I like this. Bernie Sanders wants to tax billionaires' pandemic gains to fund health care.
Honestly, I think it's straight up socialism. If Jeff Bezo's wishes to personally donate money, he should be able to -- but that doesn't mean we should just reach into his personal accounts, to pay for it. I don't even like the guy (not at all) but I don't like this kind of thinking either.

Also - his proposed legislation involves "unrealized gains". For example, let's say I bought some stock for $1 in 2016, and today, it's now worth $8. On Paper, I have a "gain" of $7, but until I liquidate my holdings, or "sell" -- that is a unrealized gain.

And... I would like to point out, tomorrow, after being taxed, it could drop to $5.50. How is that fair to tax me, or anyone on something I haven't even made a profit on, yet?

This is the exact same thing, NY State is trying to pull off. It's a direct punishment, to those who try and save for retirement. And to be quite honest with all of you -- New York State, needs to stop wasting money and cut back on stupid things, instead of playing Fast & Loose with the Fed's and NY Tax Payers Dollars.
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
1,811
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North bay
Honestly, I think it's straight up socialism. If Jeff Bezo's wishes to personally donate money, he should be able to -- but that doesn't mean we should just reach into his personal accounts, to pay for it. I don't even like the guy (not at all) but I don't like this kind of thinking either.

Also - his proposed legislation involves "unrealized gains". For example, let's say I bought some stock for $1 in 2016, and today, it's now worth $8. On Paper, I have a "gain" of $7, but until I liquidate my holdings, or "sell" -- that is a unrealized gain.

And... I would like to point out, tomorrow, after being taxed, it could drop to $5.50. How is that fair to tax me, or anyone on something I haven't even made a profit on, yet?

This is the exact same thing, NY State is trying to pull off. It's a direct punishment, to those who try and save for retirement. And to be quite honest with all of you -- New York State, needs to stop wasting money and cut back on stupid things, instead of playing Fast & Loose with the Fed's and NY Tax Payers Dollars.
We've always lived in a world where a small portion of people live in extraordinary luxury by being able to benefit from the labor of many. This expanded with the industrial revolution and with the advancement of technology the increase became exponential. While people should be entitled to enjoy the fruits of their efforts the imbalance created by this enormous disparity of wealth is not healthy. Bezo is crazy rich because he pays people little more than minimum wage. When individuals have monopoly of resources inevitably there's less to go around. Society doesn't benefit from the wealth of billionaires, they generally pay proportionately less taxes than the middle class. So while enjoying all the advantages that society can offer they are not contributing in kind. If some of their wealth were redistributed society as a whole would benefit.
 

TXWilly

LoanSafe Member
Mar 21, 2013
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Hola People. Hope you are all safe and healthy.

I guess persistence or not giving up will pay? Or it is still an illusion. Some interesting developments. Some of which I may not give some explicit info which may be not an issue but just in case.

1) Why would a party who stole your home, made you file bankruptcy, now sending statements/asking you to pay for a 2nd loan which is already gone or discharged? IS it a trick to talk to me?

2) I have exposed the entire theft/crimes in web/fb/twitter and now the heat is up on them so they want to silence me which I am not going to. And if they want to settle, how much one should calculate for the damages? How do you put a $ figure to your sufferings/fighting for so may years/loss business/job opportunities/credit/future etc? I gather from National Mortgage settlement with DOJ the banks signed that they will/should pay $1M per violation/per fraudulent assignment?

3) And you may be aware that recently ABA changed/modified the rules on attorney responsibilities that they have to verify and scrutinize more on their client for fraud/anything improper. Though it was already there they have made more strict now. Will that make think twice for crooked attorneys to help the theft or nothing is going to happen?
 

TXWilly

LoanSafe Member
Mar 21, 2013
777
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I am concentrating on the next phase of my litigation: unjust enrichment. We could argue the named trustee and servicer has suffered no loss, benefited handsomely, any title awarded to them would result in windfall and amount to unjust enrichment. If we were to foreclosed the titles should be to the taxpayers who bailed them out.
I think the Court of Appeals trys to burry my case by issuing no opinion. They can't say it's OK for BOfA to forge a note to steal a house in an opinon. On the other hand, can not have a pro se winning against 5 attys and 3 law firms. Just my though.
They will never allow a pro-se to win over any case against banks. But they cannot do it for long. One day they have to change and it may be your case will be the start... And After I exposed the FRAUD of the federal judge he resigned and the attorney lost his jobs (consecutive) though I am not happy about it but it is his own calling and actions caused his situation. And the judge's rating in a website which showed his -ve bias towards non-white litigants and other his 'biased' behavior was removed. But I had saved it before so I have been posting it in my site too.
 

TXWilly

LoanSafe Member
Mar 21, 2013
777
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I do not believe that any report, book, or documentary can truly cover the entire landscape of the 2008 mess. There are still large chunks of it which have not surfaced and the bulk of the homeowners still do not know what hit them. What seemed important to me was this documentary made a point that this was not due to homeowners ; but the fraud which began first at the time of soliciting borrowers, the paperwork, the appraisals, and the belief that the homeowners trusted "the bank " of that loan, not realizing it was not a bank at all. (Something with the name of bank is not a bank.) This episode was framed around the experience of one homeowner in Akron, Ohio, but OHM is right; the real fraud expanded beyond comprehension with the securitization of those loans. This was one snapshot, with four more installments to come. Interesting timing, with an entirely new foreclosure wave on the horizon. The 2008 mess is not understood or digested yet, nor remedies in place, and now there is not time to come to terms with it before the tsunami hits. And here we are, Bagels still paddling around in our little rowboats in these waters.
The fraud is toooooo LAAARGE to put in few hours of video or book. IT has to be TAUGHT in every law school so that attorneys know how screwed up their previous crooks were and also in finance schools.
 

TXWilly

LoanSafe Member
Mar 21, 2013
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Something fishy is going on. I pointed out in my court documents that there were discrepancies on pages 2 of different copies of the note. You can see the different if you download image from BK court and compared it to the note at trial. However, when I requested the image of the note submitted from the court, only page 1 is shown. My luck is there is also differences on pages 1. Looks like the same reason why all the fraudulent assignments were removed from the county records. I would not be surprised if the discrepancies will be corrected. This comment could serve as the record.
You will be surprised at some interesting technical glitches in your documents when court is involved. For example in my case there was a 150 page document I filed and in 78th page some key info supporting my case was there and the scanning/scanner made error on that particular page which missed the key info and moved/missed it so it would not be easily available if someone need it. Is this a coincidence?
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
1,811
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North bay
Hey More Trouble and TX Willy. The three of us are here in real time. We should have a party. I'll open the virtual bubbly. Cheers!
 
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TXWilly

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Mar 21, 2013
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Hey More Trouble and TX Willy. The three of us are here in real time. We should have a party. I'll open the virtual bubbly. Cheers!
So how are you? Is your case/home issue resolved? Or still waiting for mod or in litigation?
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
643
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I agree with Isisis in that the majority of wealth is not being taxed at the expense of the middle class and poor. Our country has created a system wear money is skimmed from tax payers and redistributed upwards. Time has proven that the wealthy retain this over re-investment and jobs expansion. If these funds were re-invested there would be more jobs. (Reaganomics from the 80s)

With time and with these attempts and tax cuts, these jobs are lower paying and have reduced benefits. Anyone who has lived through the Great Recession has felt it.

Need a job? Well, now there are plenty since our "recovery" but these are all "temporary" or part time positions. With that, you are basically starting over and without benefits. Health insurance must - again - be "earned" after a lengthy wait for the employer to decide to "hire you" in a full time position. Some people just can't go without health care. There is no benefit to "taking any job" when you lose health insurance for yourself or your family. What is being neglected is the cost to work. I can't work if that job does not pay for my transportation needs, my professional attire, and my health insurance.

This is a HUGE problem. This is why so many young people continue to live at home even after college. Their debt is high and the cost to work is insufficient for self support. When the wealthy do not meet their end of the bargain, who is getting the benefits of these tax cuts? Corporate greed mandates them to keep it and buy back stock... leaving no benefit to the population as a whole and benefiting the very few that have extreme wealth that is NOT being taxed. I'm tired of this sh*t.
 

Annie Mac

LoanSafe Member
Aug 19, 2011
598
84
28
Oregon
There is enough water for us all. There is enough land for all to have shelter. There is enough food for none to experience hunger. We have the resources to build enough shelter for all. We have the intelligence to use sustainable energy without damage to the natural resources. We know what has been happening to the species and the water and the air and still, here we are. Covid will not take us out; it is our own lack of cooperation to work together. Yes, there are blocks against this by those in power, but they alone are not to blame. There are many frogs hanging out in the boiling pot of water as the temperature rises. Step out of the pot of boiling water for a second and observe how we lack nothing really. What is the next step to getting there? We each need to do that step.
 
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TXWilly

LoanSafe Member
Mar 21, 2013
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There is enough water for us all. There is enough land for all to have shelter. There is enough food for none to experience hunger. We have the resources to build enough shelter for all. We have the intelligence to use sustainable energy without damage to the natural resources. We know what has been happening to the species and the water and the air and still, here we are. Covid will not take us out; it is our own lack of cooperation to work together. Yes, there are blocks against this by those in power, but they alone are not to blame. There are many frogs hanging out in the boiling pot of water as the temperature rises. Step out of the pot of boiling water for a second and observe how we lack nothing really. What is the next step to getting there? We each need to do that step.
Well written as always and it is the illegitimate/corporate Greed.... greed.JPG
 

wanda robo

LoanSafe Member
Sep 29, 2012
3,949
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NJ
Sorry, I've been away for awhile. My head's been so far up a different body part(you all know what I mean). We've been looking to buy a house. One of the most depressing things I've ever done. People are going nuts because of the interest rates. Over bidding on houses, 1st day on the market & they're touting "multiple bids in already". Over bidding on houses that have a roof that has to be replaced before you can even move in. I'm not talking a small roof, I'm talking about a 23 square roof, with who knows how much rotted wood. Putting in cash offers because then they don't need an appraisal.

Did something un-wanda like yesterday & put in a bid on the house we are renting. They tell me LSF9 has it on the "accelerated sale list", but so far, no listing. At least I know everything that's wrong with this shack & how we can change it.

Don't know if it's the smart thing to do, or another possibly dumb move.

I miss you guys.
 
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TXWilly

LoanSafe Member
Mar 21, 2013
777
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Sorry, I've been away for awhile. My head's been so far up a different body part(you all know what I mean). We've been looking to buy a house. One of the most depressing things I've ever done. People are going nuts because of the interest rates. Over bidding on houses, 1st day on the market & they're touting "multiple bids in already". Over bidding on houses that have a roof that has to be replaced before you can even move in. I'm not talking a small roof, I'm talking about a 23 square roof, with who knows how much rotted wood. Putting in cash offers because then they don't need an appraisal.

Did something un-wanda like yesterday & put in a bid on the house we are renting. They tell me LSF9 has it on the "accelerated sale list", but so far, no listing. At least I know everything that's wrong with this shack & how we can change it.

Don't know if it's the smart thing to do, or another possibly dumb move.

I miss you guys.
Great, Do whatever you feel is right for you/your family. Though the crooks are trying to approach me in various indirect ways, I said nothing doing unless my demands are met. After I posted everything in net/fb/twitter, the heat/fire is on them....
 

Annie Mac

LoanSafe Member
Aug 19, 2011
598
84
28
Oregon
Wanda robo, we have all experienced your journey losing a place which was more than a house to you, having to look at it from next door, the pain of losing your four-legged best friend, working and sharing knowledge and documents with others unselfishly. You have questioned how could you purchase a house which someone else has been foreclosed out of. None of us are capable of judging you for right or wrong moves; those categories do not exist. We support one another as each new obstacle arises, whether it is loss of a loved one, a court date, or paperwork details.
Personally, I do not think I could have lived next door to a house I loved as much as you loved that first house. Do you love this one as much as the first? Doesn't matter. There comes a point in life where we make home under whatever roof is over our heads, and we make it our safe place, even if it is a tent or an RV. It gets old living in "temporary" mode with boxes. It gets old moving the older we get. It does sound as if they are predicting house prices to drop. I do not know how I would feel ever signing papers to buy through a monthly payment again. I have not considered doing that. But, I see no right or wrong in you taking this action. We have all put way more energy into this fight than is good for us; we each deserve a few peaceful days of healthy living under whatever roof we have, and if there is no roof, the sky is mighty beautiful lately with the Perseids. I wish you the best and hope this transaction brings you that peace.
 
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