Bagels at a Bar Mitzvah

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Nov 14, 2009
1,500
270
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Something fishy is going on. I pointed out in my court documents that there were discrepancies on pages 2 of different copies of the note. You can see the different if you download image from BK court and compared it to the note at trial. However, when I requested the image of the note submitted from the court, only page 1 is shown. My luck is there is also differences on pages 1. Looks like the same reason why all the fraudulent assignments were removed from the county records. I would not be surprised if the discrepancies will be corrected. This comment could serve as the record.
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
1,811
254
83
North bay
Checked county records and my assignments aren't showing up either. They were from Countrywide to BONY trustee CWABS 2006-SD2. So who is now trying to foreclose on me? An assignment in writing is necessary under the statute of frauds but recording isn't automatically required. However to transfer title the assignment must be recorded. Curiouser and curiouser.

Anybody else showing assignments removed from county records?
 

kraftykrab

LoanSafe Member
Jan 27, 2014
1,238
164
63
Checked county records and my assignments aren't showing up either. They were from Countrywide to BONY trustee CWABS 2006-SD2. So who is now trying to foreclose on me? An assignment in writing is necessary under the statute of frauds but recording isn't automatically required. However to transfer title the assignment must be recorded. Curiouser and curiouser.

Anybody else showing assignments removed from county records?
Gonna have to check mine and get back to you....that is a strange deal. Didnt know they could "unrecord" documents like that....
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Nov 14, 2009
1,500
270
83
I think BOfA trying to get rid of all evidence that can prove they violate the consent order with the DOJ (back in 2012).
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
1,811
254
83
North bay
What I've been trying to do for the past ten years now is avail myself of the right to terminate the contract granted the lender upon uncured default. While this should be possible given the mutual nature of the contract it's way hard to pull off. According to the DOT if a borrower fails to make payments, is then given the opportunity to cure by making up those payments but fails to do so the Lender is expressly permitted to terminate the contract by invoking the power of sale and taking the security.

Conversely, it's logical - though not express and even implied - that if the lender fails to comply with the contract terms and that failure is material and it goes uncured the borrower should be able to terminate the contract. This wouldn't affect the debt itself but the contract and their right to interest. Oh, and the debt wouldn't be secured.....

Anyway, you tell this to a bank attorney and you get this blank deer in the headlights look like you've just been speaking Croatian. The concept is beyond their comprehension. They're like, "No, you owe us this money with interest like death or taxes and we have an inalienable right to frustrate your attempts to pay, to trip you up and take your house. That's just how it is a cowboy."

Maybe they're right and I'm wrong. There is zero case law on this topic. But I can find nothing supporting the concept that the mortgage loan contracts around established contract law principles.

So far what I've gotten out of it is a court ruling that foreclosure would be wrongful due to BANA's misconduct. Nonetheless and predictably there is a sale scheduled - yes another - in a couple of months and the carrion still circle in their SUVs. I thought the preliminary injunction would have brought that to an end but no.

You've got to be stubborn AF to fight the bank.

Annie Mac,

I was pleased and relieved to hear from you. When you posted last at the beginning of the lockdown you mentioned you were in a high-risk category so I was concerned by your silence. Glad you're still with us!

More Trouble,

Are you suggesting that there's one area of the law that actually intimidates the banks? That'd be nice, huh?
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
594
53
28
Checked county records and my assignments aren't showing up either. They were from Countrywide to BONY trustee CWABS 2006-SD2. So who is now trying to foreclose on me? An assignment in writing is necessary under the statute of frauds but recording isn't automatically required. However to transfer title the assignment must be recorded. Curiouser and curiouser.

Anybody else showing assignments removed from county records?
You can't physically un-record documents. Atleast, in theory. When a document is recorded in public records, it's indexed, and added into a huge book. The page might also be microfilmed and scanned into a computer for online access, but, the physical copy never leaves the book in Public Records.

Even a erroneous recording, shouldn't result in removal from the book. Instead, a new document, deed, etc -- would need to be recorded, referencing the original document in question.

The point I am saying is this -- if you have a copy of the assignment, at the very top -- should mention a Book Number, Page Number and Date. You are more than free to go to public records for your county, and check it in person. If it's gone from the book, altogether -- than you have a interesting story for the local news.
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
594
53
28
Checked county records and my assignments aren't showing up either. They were from Countrywide to BONY trustee CWABS 2006-SD2. So who is now trying to foreclose on me?
I wonder if Bayview has purchased your loan, or moved it into a new NPL Trust.
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
594
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28
OHM,

Wholesale defaults present a cash flow problem to banks and I'll grant you that the effort involved in wresting property from a homeowner may be painstaking but it is ultimately profitable. To quote Countrywide CEO and all around gargoyle David Sambol speaking to investors,

"Now, we are frequently asked what the impact of our servicing costs and earnings will be from increased delinquencies and [loss] mitigation efforts, and what happens to costs. And what we point out is, as I will now, is that increased operating expenses in times like this will tend to be fully offset by increases in ancillary income in our servicing operation, greater fee income from items like late charges, and importantly from in - sourced vendor functions that represent part of our diversification strategy, a counter- cycilcal diversification strategy such as our businesses involved in foreclosure trustee default title serviceses and property inspections services."
Countrywide Home Loans was a unique case, because Countrywide wasn't just a Home Loan Lender. They were a "diversified financial services company" which included Life Insurance, a Retail Bank, Homeowners Insurance, Default Servicing, a Law Firm, Loan Servicing and more.

Countrywide benefited because their subsidiaries like Balboa Insurance, ReconTrust, sold Force Placed Insurance, Property Inspections, and Reconveyance Services. They made tons of money from kickbacks, and because they owned the companies in question -- so any account, delinquent or not, would be profitable. In addition - late fees are only good for those still paying on their loans, not those who have walked away from the mortgage.

But, to respond to your original comment, Countrywide was unique. Banks like Chase, or Services like PHH/Ocwen -- do not have tons of subsidiaries or specialized businesses. They farm out every single process they can, and the kickbacks are basically gone. The loans in most cases represent a terrible net present value, and are capital exhaustive.

As I said before -- I don't think any Mortgage Servicer or Bank in 2020, looks forward to souring loans. I think they represent a terrible deal for all those involved.
 

moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Nov 14, 2009
1,500
270
83
You can't physically un-record documents. Atleast, in theory. When a document is recorded in public records, it's indexed, and added into a huge book. The page might also be microfilmed and scanned into a computer for online access, but, the physical copy never leaves the book in Public Records.

Even a erroneous recording, shouldn't result in removal from the book. Instead, a new document, deed, etc -- would need to be recorded, referencing the original document in question.

The point I am saying is this -- if you have a copy of the assignment, at the very top -- should mention a Book Number, Page Number and Date. You are more than free to go to public records for your county, and check it in person. If it's gone from the book, altogether -- than you have a interesting story for the local news.
I went to the county recording office several times in the last year to search for fraudulent assignment and could not find it. You are right the assignment does have a book number. Maybe all they did was reprogram the query to not include the assignment. That's exactly my plan after the Supreme Court I will appeal to the local and national media. My guess is when Bank of New York was sued by the institutional investors and cases were active, they asked the servicers to purge all the proofs that BONY was guity of trustee misconduct, the assignments were the evidence of guilt.
 

isisis

LoanSafe Member
Jun 22, 2010
1,811
254
83
North bay
Just for amusement purposes try to swallow and digest this single sentence of judicial eloquence.

"From the record evidence bearing upon the consequences of the breach of the distribution contract it appears that the plaintiff did not seek to show with any degree of monetary certainty a loss based upon the first-mentioned ground of recoverable damage, that is, some reasonable outlay or expenditure in anticipation of performance--nor does the challenged $4,000 specification purport to be identifiable with that element of recompense--so that the award coincident with the second premise of relief, the amount of profits which the court found from the established facts the plaintiff would have made if allowed to complete the contracted undertaking, constituted the plaintiff's full measure of compensation as to this phase of the case."

I like to think of myself as just as sharp as the next person but somewhere in the middle of this uber-compounded sentence, I lose my bearings altogether. It's always been my impression that language is intended to convey meaning for the purpose of mutual understanding. It was towards that end that a wonderful invention came into existence. Called a period and using a small dot as its symbol this handy tool could be used to conclude a portion of one's premise, granting at the same time an opportunity to catch one's breath while the reader or listener absorbs the profundity which you provided before moving on to the next.

The judge from the foregoing paragraph was at least two periods away from making sense. Imagine what the woman sitting across the dinner table every night must have endured.
 

Annie Mac

LoanSafe Member
Aug 19, 2011
598
84
28
Oregon
Fortune Tellers are invited to weigh in on the state of things in this time of unknowns and shifting sands. Moving forward with a hearing during this time means there can be no judgment, could be dismissed due to the current restrictions on eviction, foreclosure, etc. It could prolong things for a very long time into the future. Delaying into the future, could mean the entire picture is different economically, and even more unknowns. A backlog of cases to be dealt with in the courts. Our basic focus has always been to delay, which is a win of sorts. Then there is what occurs with a new executive branch and cabinet in six months. I invite all well thought out ideas as well as the wild things some of us have not thought about yet. There are no wrong ideas on this topic; it is all unknown. Some of us have worked mighty hard to be where we are, so this is a group of diverse thinkers of all types.
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
594
53
28
I'm desperately holding out for a new version of Making Home Affordable/HAMP. Being jobless, broke, and behind on mortgage payments has really been getting me down about my future, and my emotions a bit.

As for as the Future, I predict a very bleak one at that. Right now, defaults are ultra-concentrated in NJ, NY, FL and LA. In my own home town, apparently about 27% of all residents haven't paid rent in months. Millions of people are in forbearance plans they can not afford, or have simply stopped paying their mortgages. And... Unemployment is well in excess of the Great Depression-era and has no signs of recovering anytime soon.

For me... I foolishly used my real estate investments as a retirement vehicle. Ideally hoping, that by that age, I would have the homes paid off -- and I could sell them, or rent them out for income. That creative idea is now down the drain.

Very Bleak, My Friends. Very Bleak.
 

wanda robo

LoanSafe Member
Sep 29, 2012
3,949
639
113
NJ
I'm desperately holding out for a new version of Making Home Affordable/HAMP. Being jobless, broke, and behind on mortgage payments has really been getting me down about my future, and my emotions a bit.

As for as the Future, I predict a very bleak one at that. Right now, defaults are ultra-concentrated in NJ, NY, FL and LA. In my own home town, apparently about 27% of all residents haven't paid rent in months. Millions of people are in forbearance plans they can not afford, or have simply stopped paying their mortgages. And... Unemployment is well in excess of the Great Depression-era and has no signs of recovering anytime soon.

For me... I foolishly used my real estate investments as a retirement vehicle. Ideally hoping, that by that age, I would have the homes paid off -- and I could sell them, or rent them out for income. That creative idea is now down the drain.

Very Bleak, My Friends. Very Bleak.

Well not to be "Debbie Downer" if I hear the term " Best & Final Offer" one more time, I'll shoot myself in the foot. Houses are flying off the hook in Jersey. WTF?

They're all "Stepford Houses" ones that got foreclosed, and are now being flipped....they all look the same.

Again, I'm back to how do I conscientiously do this? How do I make an offer in God's Good Grace on someone else's bad fortune?.......
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
594
53
28
Well not to be "Debbie Downer" if I hear the term " Best & Final Offer" one more time, I'll shoot myself in the foot. Houses are flying off the hook in Jersey. WTF?
Hun, why on earth are you trying to buy? There is SO much inventory that hasn't even been added onto the Auction Block, that has been suspended since March &... there is going to be a TON MORE from all these forbearances and delinquencies. NJ is going to look like '09, '10 -- all over again in short time.

I would honestly just keep renting. If you can sit on the sidelines a little bit longer, your opportunity will come. There are far too many people broke & not-paying for their to continued home price appreciation.
 

Annie Mac

LoanSafe Member
Aug 19, 2011
598
84
28
Oregon
I agree entirely with OneHugeMess. From what I have dug into, those of use who were in this "hobby" from 2008, will be considered experiencing a minimal foreclosure and eviction crisis compared to what is coming ahead. Of course the dollar may be shedding its skin and turning inside out, but there will be alot of houses on the shelves to choose from, unfortunately. The banks are already gearing up.
 
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Javagold

LoanSafe Member
Mar 2, 2012
189
18
18
It’s looking like this thread (and this website) has runs its course.... On a long enough timeline, the survival rate drops to zero.


Hope everyone is still doing well.....Health is Wealth.

Keep fighting the good fight ...... Don’t die fighting for what you believe in. Make your enemy die for what they believe in.
 

Annie Mac

LoanSafe Member
Aug 19, 2011
598
84
28
Oregon
At one time there were many websites and gradually, they have withered away. This thread has had many rapid-fire periods and others where things move slowly. It seems as if everything has had the pause button recently. This site has been a great help to many of us when we are stumped, others have given us concrete methods, ideas, examples, and at times alot of us were dealing with identical situations. Sometimes we would take a hiatus as prep for documents was happening; sometimes an upcoming hearing resulted in a flurry of postings to help this member prepare. This was a safe place, a base to come back to. A pause of a week or two is miniscule when this has been going for a decade. I agree though, that the circumstances are going to look different for the home-saving in the future. Not sure what that will look like, but it would be helpful if some of the wisdom which has been shared on Bagels could be kept afloat for the next round. I have been always impressed at the commitment, the depth of knowledge, and the courage of everyone here to keep at it. I would welcome the input of others, and especially Isisis on this topic.
 
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moretrouble

LoanSafe Member
Nov 14, 2009
1,500
270
83
It’s looking like this thread (and this website) has runs its course.... On a long enough timeline, the survival rate drops to zero.


Hope everyone is still doing well.....Health is Wealth.

Keep fighting the good fight ...... Don’t die fighting for what you believe in. Make your enemy die for what they believe in.
I am afraid that you’re right. The Oregon court of appeals denied my motion for reconsideration today. Apparently, to them it’s acceptable for a bank to print its own note to steal from the people who elect and pay their salaries. Maybe , it’s because I am a pro se. Can not have a pro se with no formal legal training winning against 3 law firms and 5 attorneys. I am kind of disappointed but somewhat suspected it was going to happen this way. The coward judges did not give me an opinion either. Going to the Supreme Court.