2nd Mortgage EXTINGUISHED by Citi Mortgage under 2MP Program!

TomEason

LoanSafe Guide
Jun 18, 2009
12,390
84
48
SF Bay Area CA
mmota

I stopped paying my citi heloc May 2012, it was charged-off Feb. 2013. Now Real Time Resolutions is trying to collect. I am confused, because it seems like Real Time Resolutions needs approval from Citi heloc to do anything or negotiate Even billing statements ask for checks to be made to Citi. Can Real Time Resolutions collections FC on my house, do I still have a change to Settle with Citi? (the Strategy to Settle Second thread is not clear). I followed the Strategy to Settle 2nd, but since Citi is on the money ($75) I may get a FC letter surprise without a chance to settle.
Did you even read my post to you? Your 2nd IS NOT "in the money"; the Citi HELOC is way underwater.
 

cuegis

LoanSafe Member
Jul 19, 2010
139
6
18
Hi,

After a long 3+ year process that involved me suing CitiMortgage in court I was finally approved for a HAMP on my first mortgage which is with Citi.
I had not made any payments for some 35 months so they ended up adding around $65,000 in arrears on top of my $331,000 principle balance which gave me a new modified loan of around $400,000 at 2%.

I made the 3 trial payments and staring June 1 2013 the Hamp became permanent and I have been current ever since.

So that whole thing is fine.

I just want to mention that the criteria for me to have been approved for this Hamp, which I met when I applied, no longer exists...i.e. I am no longer employed and earning the amount of income that I did when I applied for the Hamp.

But, I am hoping that once a Hamp is PERMANENT then it is PERMANENT! Because I have no problem paying this new modified loan and will continue to be current.

I am writing on this forum because I also have a Heloc with the same Bank Citi, which I also have not paid in some 3 years.

I have followed the advice that was given on this website about "settling a 2nd".

The thing I have followed, if I understood it correctly, was to NOT make any contact with the bank and just let it be for awhile.

I must confess that I have received many voice mails from CitiMortgage over the past 3-4 months and I have not responded to any of them. Am I doing the right thing?

From what I have read about the 2MP program, one of the main things that stuck out at me was that any information for modifying a 2nd under 2MP is based on the NPV report that was used for the 1st loan Hamp mod.

This is important because the home value that they used on that NPV report was $780,000.
At that time I thought that it was way too low but had a gut feeling that I should just leave it alone and let them stay with that figure because in the future it might come back to help me...I hope I was right.

In addition to that number being too low at the time of that application, my home has gone up in value to around $1.2 currently.

This is crucial because my first (modified) loan is roughly $396,000 and the Heloc, with arrears included, is around $535,000.

If it is true that they use the NPV report from the 1st lien Hamp when analyzing the 2MP mod, then it will show that I am underwater, which is what I want them to think.

I am guessing that this may be one reason why there has not been any type of foreclosure action having taken place.

Since I am no longer employed, as I was at the time of my 1st Hamp application it would be extremely difficult for me to start paying another monthly loan.

Obviously I would love to get this Heloc extinguished.... if they believe that I am underwater then there may be a chance of at least a partial extinguishment .

So this is my story and I am looking for advice as to how to proceed from this point.

Do I call back the Citi reps who left all of those voicemails? Or just let it be for awhile longer?

If I do end up speaking with them at some point, do I let them know that I am no longer employed or is there any chance that would put my 1st loan mod in any danger? Or is Permanent really permanent?

Is there an ideal way to go about this that could lead to an extinguishment?
 

TomEason

LoanSafe Guide
Jun 18, 2009
12,390
84
48
SF Bay Area CA
cuegis

Thanks for your (long) post. The Strategy for Settling a 2nd works best when negotiating to settle an underwater 2nd. However it appears your 2nd could very well be "in-the-money".

If your valuation isn't current, I recommend you get a current one. A CMA from a RE agent who farms your neighborhood will be free. Then you'll better know what strategy to follow.

FYI, you can safely add $50K to the balance of your 2nd. That represents the costs Citi would bear post FC to resell the REO property. Those costs include carrying costs, fix-up costs, and cost to resell, including RE commission. Needless to say, that amount will be higher for a more expensive property.

If you determine your 2nd is clearly in the money, I'd suggest you visit the following thread for ideas. Since you'll have less, if any, negotiating leverage, you'll need to be more proactive. Good luck.

http://www.loansafe.org/forum/debt-settlement/41196-settling-money-2nds.html
 
Last edited:

cuegis

LoanSafe Member
Jul 19, 2010
139
6
18
Thank you for your quick response.

I am very sure that I had read in the Hamp guidelines rulebook that once your 1st loan has been permanently modified then they will not, or even can not, ask for any additional information from you.

They are required to use the exact same information (NPV report + income) that was used during your application for a Hamp on your 1st mortgage.

This would include the value that is on line #35(?) of the NPV 5.0 report which lists the home value...

So it seems that from all I have read they would be required to use the $780,000 figure.

I do have a current valuation as I live in a condo building in NYC and keep very close track of every sale that takes place.

The average amount of time from listing until closing is 1 month... Yes it's true..

So, if they were to use this current info it would not be good for me.

The question is whether it is true what is said in the Hamp rulebook about being required to use NPV 5.0 from the 1st loan.
 

NisMo

LoanSafe Member
Apr 15, 2014
2
0
1
I stopped paying my citi heloc May 2012, it was charged-off Feb. 2013. Now Real Time Resolutions is trying to collect. I am confused, because it seems like Real Time Resolutions needs approval from Citi heloc to do anything or negotiate Even billing statements ask for checks to be made to Citi.
Can Real Time Resolutions collections FC on my house, do I still have a change to Settle with Citi? (the Strategy to Settle Second thread is not clear).
I followed the Strategy to Settle 2nd, but since Citi is on the money ($75) I may get a FC letter surprise without a chance to settle.
Im in a similar situation. bk7 in 2/2010, got modified w/ 1st (gmac) in 2012. stopped paying 2nd (citi) during mod of 1st. in a few months, lost income, fell behind again, got foreclosure lawsuit papers from gmac in 12/2012, hardest hit fund (hhf) got me current 1/2013., still making monthly payments to hhf. 2nd has been quiet forever. initially (2012) got a letter from real time resolutions w/ a 360mo plan, that made the monthly payment basically my entire 2nd mort balance divided by 360mo, no interest. ignored it.. this was ~2 yrs ago. citi is still quiet. owe 1st about 185k, 2nd 72k, house value about 160k. trying to see if I can settle with citi. I never sent them a letter after bk to authorize them to contact me w/ settlement. does anyone have a template I can use? called citi recovery today just to see what they can do. they asked me to send my offer w/ 2mo stubs/ bank statements, 2yr tax returns, hardship letter, etc.

any suggestions how I should proceed?

thanks,

J-
 

bigfrog

LoanSafe Member
Aug 31, 2011
335
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Ask them why do they need your Financial info? Ask them what is the different if you have lots of money vs little/no money? Because the bottom-line is that you aren't doing payments. If you aren't doing payments, in reality they only have 3 choices; waiting( hope/scare you; in-changing your mind and you continue doing payments ), foreclose(take the house) or do a settlement to call it a day. It's that simple.

These lenders are complicating things so that people freak out and pay up.
 

dfcgram

LoanSafe Member
Apr 26, 2012
1
1
1
Hello - not sure if this is the right place to post. I quit making my payments on my Citi 2nd mortgage back in early 2012. The loan was in my husbands name. Since that time I have divorced. The home is now in my name and I have modified my 1st mortgage into my name and at a payment I can afford....barely but at least I keep my home. I have not heard anything from Citi since early 2012. Should I contact them or just let it sit since I am not hearing anything? I don't want to open a can of worms but also would love to just get rid of the loan. Thanks!
 
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lostinmd

LoanSafe Member
Sep 5, 2014
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Wow, where do I begin? I filed for Chapter 13 in January 2010. CitiMortgage held the 2nd on my home and was subsequently crammed down to a non-secured creditor. Fast forward to 2012- I applied for a modification for the 2nd and much to my surprise the loan was extinguished. I was still in my bankruptcy at the time so I assumed that Citi would withdraw their claim.

However, Citi never withdrew their claim. And subsequently, cashed a payment from the trustee that they were not entitled to. The rest is a proverbial nightmare. Despite notice from the court that their claim was disallowed; my possession of a copy of the lien release, 1099C and letter dated 05/17/2012 that I did not owe anything and consider the matter closed- these folks will not refund the money to the trustee and state that I owe them money.

Beware of CitiMortgage, one hand does not know or care to inquire what the other hand is doing. 369 dollars is a lot of money to pay on a loan that was forgiven. Hamp will not intercede nor will the Trustee who is supposed to ensure that legitimate creditors are paid. My biggest nightmare is that I will be sued despite having solid evidence that the second was forgiven.