2do Mortgage - Ocwen PHH NewRez Nationwide Direct Inc

CYJ

LoanSafe Member
Jan 14, 2020
1
0
1
After many loan transfers from a mortgage company to another, Ocwen offered us a loan modification 10 years ago. The loan modification was only for the 1st mortgage. We got a debt cancellation form as well from them. We have been paying them since then and now Ocwen is PHH/RewRez. Since then, we never knew about what really happened to the 2nd mortgage since Ocwen never collected the loan. We are now trying to sell the house and it looks like that there is a lien on the 2nd mortgage with Nationwide Direct Inc and according to NDI, Ocwen wrote off the 2nd mortgage. NDI now tells us that we owe the loan. There is no documentation that Ocwen, or PHH/New Rez can produce about the 2nd mortgage.

The loan does not show in our credit reports. NDI has not made any attempt yet in collecting the loan.

The property title points to the first mortgages for the house. The mortgage company already sold the mortgages to another company.

Any ideas on how to solve this? How do I really know if there is a lien? Why the loan modification did not include the 2nd mortgage? Is the loan tied to the mortgage? Is there a statute of limitations? The house in question is in Florida.
 

Jzone

LoanSafe Member
Jun 20, 2017
185
24
18
70
After many loan transfers from a mortgage company to another, Ocwen offered us a loan modification 10 years ago. The loan modification was only for the 1st mortgage. We got a debt cancellation form as well from them. We have been paying them since then and now Ocwen is PHH/RewRez. Since then, we never knew about what really happened to the 2nd mortgage since Ocwen never collected the loan. We are now trying to sell the house and it looks like that there is a lien on the 2nd mortgage with Nationwide Direct Inc and according to NDI, Ocwen wrote off the 2nd mortgage. NDI now tells us that we owe the loan. There is no documentation that Ocwen, or PHH/New Rez can produce about the 2nd mortgage.

The loan does not show in our credit reports. NDI has not made any attempt yet in collecting the loan.

The property title points to the first mortgages for the house. The mortgage company already sold the mortgages to another company.

Any ideas on how to solve this? How do I really know if there is a lien? Why the loan modification did not include the 2nd mortgage? Is the loan tied to the mortgage? Is there a statute of limitations? The house in question is in Florida.
Was this a bankruptcy case? Or did you simply stop paying the second mortgage? 10 years is a long time to go without realizing that the 2nd is still a valid lien.

First thing you need to do is check with your county register of deeds and see who holds the lien. Mortgages/liens can be assigned/transferred and that's probably what happened.

When loans are "written off", it simply an accounting term for the bank. They don't plan on getting the money, so its written off. However, there is still a lien that secured the loan and that is where the problems begin. Liens don't simply go away if you don't pay.

The bad news is that now NDI knows you want to sell and have no incentive to offer you a settlement.

Start by seeing who actually holds the lien and start negotiations with them. Then find out if there are statue of limitations for real property in Florida. Im in a similiar situation in Michigan, but I went through chapter 7 bankruptcy. The debt is gone, but lien was sold to a debt collector. In Michigan there is no SOL on real property. The lien holder can hold out for as long as they want, hope that you will eventually sell and then collect.

Good luck.
 
D

DRB

Guest
I have a similar situation, in fla bought at the top in 2005.. modified our 1st in 2009 through HAMP, we were 2 days from a sale date and through a forum here that gave exact contact numbers I was able to get a real person to help … our 2nd that was one of those crazy countrywide 15yr balloon 8.875 interest loans did a modification bringinf the payment from 835 to 1222. We were under water at the time so concentrated on 1st which we have not missed one payment. The CW loan was sold to BofA then to Greentree and then I guess to Nationstar as Veripro Solutions started to call. As thiigs were looking better in 2014 I accepted a payment plan to keep second at bay even though equity was still not enough to warrant a foreclosure..been making stead monthly payments with Veripro who at different times even offered to settle original loan was 104k and they offered 30k in 2015 we were still getting back on our feet from total and complete destruction from the "great recession" and could not do that but were told were good as long as we keep making payment plan payments. Now the market is back and we are getting ready to refi as we have the equity now, Veripro now hits us with your loan has been sold to a trust and wants original loan terms. I was told by supervisor this loan was charged off and sold.. We were offered 79k to settle this in 2/2019 now they just handed my lender doing our refi a pay off amount of 155k our principal balance was 92k and they tacked on interest of 63k. So unless they negotiate that we will be going from a 126k 1st with 15yrs left to pay to a 280k 30yr ...Our home is worth 325 pimped out but with us not doing anything and selling it as is will be less...My question is ...we have a FL 50k homestead exemption should we just do a Ch 13 sell it and be made whole so we can FINALLY start over or try to negotiate for a lower settlement amount than the 155k payoff. Trust that owns it is BCMBI trust I've googled them and they are ghosts with an address in condo in Miami. Are we going into round 2?
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
601
49
28
JMHO, I think these ghosts (zombie debt), in certain States, are barred by the SOL. But if you sell or refi you are, by virtue of the original loan contract, going to pay off the lien for its full terms. This is why silent seconds merely wait. Would be wise to address the elephant in the room with a quiet title based on SOL prior to selling or refinancing in this case. It's the only other way of getting a lien release without negotiating terms. (Realize the second is now non-negotiable in this case - they want full amount.)

Usually a loan is written off after 6 months non-payment. The SOL is going to run from the date of non-payment. Most States have an SOL of 5 or 6 years, some have never. But if substantial time runs, or there is no SOL, one could also argue laches and waiver amongst other things. I would do this just because I wanted to save some money. I would do it because of the fraud surrounding the mortgage or liens. If there's nothing worth proving or it no longer matters, hand it over and move forward. Otherwise, get an attorney on it. Your mileage may very according to State. Florida is probably a bit easier with a wealth of case law and foreclosure defense attorneys willing to pursue quiet title claims.
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
601
49
28
CX: I would NOT do this just because I wanted to save some money. I would do it because of the fraud surrounding the mortgage or liens. (or servicing)
 

DRB

LoanSafe Member
Feb 7, 2020
5
0
1
CX: I would NOT do this just because I wanted to save some money. I would do it because of the fraud surrounding the mortgage or liens. (or servicing)
The "new client BCMBI Truct" recorded the original note as assigned to BCMBI Trust from Countrywide on 9/10/2019...how can they record a note that was charged off and sold numerous times. I have my title person doing a search to see if a charge off is shown, I have asked Veripro for a copy but nothing yet. I have offered them 69,000 and have spoken to our wonderful Eric about helping me get this done. What are chances they will get 1st to allow a foreclosure as it is a modified loan and we have not missed a payment. We have been late but not missed.
 

DRB

LoanSafe Member
Feb 7, 2020
5
0
1
Well they did not take our offer of 69k and are still asking for our financials..whats up with that, why do they want our financials. They are also not cooperating with the VOM to our refi guy as we missed payments when they stopped sending our coupons...big mistake I know but paid 2 at once along with february
 

just_me

LoanSafe Member
Sep 14, 2015
601
49
28
DRB- A charge off is not the same as a lien release. The lender can still sell the loan and usually does. However, given the buying and selling of these 2nd mortgages, I would want some proof of ownership - not just a debt collector's calculation of the payoff. That, in itself might be a negotiating point. Also, they need financials to run a loan mod or make an offer. Allegedly. It depends on your level of trust and how badly you need their cooperation. Anything you volunteer may be used against you. So. Too bad they won't accept a short payoff. Also, likely they don't have the note but do you want to ruin your credit in a BK lawsuit to find out? (Otherwise a 50K homestead exemption could cram it down.)
 

DRB

LoanSafe Member
Feb 7, 2020
5
0
1
I asked that and they sent me a copy of the new recorded assigned note fr countyrwide to BCMBI trust dated 11/19 along with the limited power of attorney from BCMBI to Nationstar/mr.cooper to service also dated 11/19 and he also sent a revocable limited power of attorney from Nationstar/mr.cooper to veripro dated 1/18...what about the countrywide to BofA and BofA to Greentree. Our original payment arrangement stated Veripro was representing them. Should I press and do a full on QWR letter...would that poke the bear. I am still negotiating but they keep asking for financials, I am not afraid of what they'll see they will be able to get it done but would be really tight at their new payoff of 155k compared to their offer last year of 93k. would it help if I offered to go through Mr.Cooper for the refi? Thank You for your help. I also spoke with the CFPB not a whole lot of help, I should file a complaint due to them NEVER sending me anything stating accrued interest the entire time I was paying Veripro and now all of a sudden it appears but again do not want to piss off someone I am wanting to negotiate with. All of my statements and previous payoffs only showed principle balance and the payoffs did state a satisfaction and lien release would be recorded, also the previous pay off letters were always good for 90 days where this one was good for 20 days. I feel like I have a gun to my head.
 

DRB

LoanSafe Member
Feb 7, 2020
5
0
1
Looks like Wilmington Savings Fund Society is the trustee for BCMBI trust ...Does that mean anything? Should I go direct to them and circumvent Veripro. Man how many hands touch these loans...figures it's a Delaware company..whole state is a bunch of banksters... thanks good'ole Uncle Joe
 

OneHugeMess

LoanSafe Member
May 30, 2016
548
44
28
Looks like Wilmington Savings Fund Society is the trustee for BCMBI trust ...Does that mean anything? Should I go direct to them and circumvent Veripro. Man how many hands touch these loans...figures it's a Delaware company..whole state is a bunch of banksters... thanks good'ole Uncle Joe
Wilmington Savings Fund is the trustee for a lot of these new Wall Street Schemes. They probably purchased your loan for pennies on the dollar, and are hoping they can extract money from it whenever the home is sold, foreclosed, or they get the loan "modified" with payments restarting again. Wilmington is not the investor, but more of a shell bank, to hold all the assets.

For Years, I've had a Countrywide HELOC that was originated in 2006, and was held in MERS for "Countrywide Bank, FSB". Supposedly, First National Bank of Arizona was the Investor. But, at other times, I've been told Bank of America or Countrywide Bank is the owner.

Back in November of last year, I received a letter from Real Time Resolutions saying they were transfering the servicing of my loan back to "Bank of America Home Loans". The thing is, they had never contacted me once before by phone, email, or letter - and it was the first time I've ever heard from them. I've also not received a call since like 2010, about this loan.

My 2nd Mortgage is completely, 100% underwater, with not a single dime of equity from the first to cover it. I've long assumed they have just written mine off as a total-loss, but I don't even care. I have zero intention on ever repaying it. I do not even receive statements or payment coupons anymore.
 

DRB

LoanSafe Member
Feb 7, 2020
5
0
1
Well we have equity now after paying our 1st faithfully for the last 15 years, should I worry they will try to foreclose, I am working hard to get my ducks in a row to refi as I said they want 155k up from 93k that Veripro offered us last year, met a lender this afternoon and it looks like most we can give them is 105k do you think they will bite.... home is worth 316 per Zillow our 1st balance is 125k