Settle Your Second Mortgage for Pennies on the Dollar

Over the last seven years homeowners across America have endured extreme hardships due to the housing market collapse. This crisis has caused foreclosure rates to skyrocket and has left many people unable to pay their mortgage and other debts they’ve acquired. This is especially true for borrowers who have obtained a second mortgage loan or home equity line of credit (HELOC). Many homeowners have obtained this loan through a refinance while the market was booming and home prices were sky high.

As we have come to realize the market was “under the influence” and property values were way over priced. A property worth nearly a $1,000,000 back in 2006 may be found on the market now for only $700,000 – on a good day. Homeowners who took advantage of home prices and used their equity to take cash-out have found themselves in a negative equity (i.e. underwater) position.

Many people are aware of loan modifications as this is the number one solution for borrowers who are struggling to pay their mortgage. However, a loan modification is extremely difficult to accomplish on a second mortgage or HELOC and many homeowners are left in the dark. Since a second mortgage is usually minute compared to a first mortgage, there’s not always much the lender can do besides lowering the interest rate, which in many cases will not help lower the payment much at all.

What you need to know is that the second mortgage servicer (more often than not) is in a precarious position. With them being in 2nd lien position (given the home is underwater), they would not gain anything from foreclosing on the borrower in case of default. For homeowners who are current on the 1st mortgage, this places you in a “GREAT” negotiating stance to work out some type of settlement or short pay. Many homeowners are unaware that underwater junior liens can be settled for pennies on the dollar.

Strategy for Settling Your 2nd Loan

To start with, if you intend to keep your house and cannot afford to keep paying both the 1st and 2nd, your priority is to keep your 1st current. An important and generally accepted rule is this. A property owner should not deal with his/her 2nd lender until after the 1st loan has been permanently handled.

Your 2nd lender, often being totally underwater, and hence “out of the money” won’t foreclose. So, forget about your 2nd for a while, e.g. at least 6 months, but almost always much much longer. Here’s the deal. Should you want a reasonable settlement, you’ll need to follow a certain strategy. If you try to play by the lender’s rules, you may be able to settle sooner, but you will pay a lot more. If you have a good reason to be in a hurry (“just to get it done and move on” isn’t a good reason), then by all means reach out to your lender, but be prepared to jump through hoops, and to ultimately pay a lot more. However, to achieve a more palatable settlement, the process will require a smart strategy and patience, as it will most likely be a process lasting, at a minimum, six months, but often as long as several years.

Key settlement guidelines:

1) First, stop paying on your 2nd loan and have no more communication with them, by either phone or mail. That’s right. When you see your lender’s collections dept on your caller ID, do not answer the phone, and do not return any voicemail messages. The first three or four months, you’ll likely receive many calls from the lender’s collections dept. Please just ignore them. FYI, many forum members have learned how to deal with lots of incoming collections calls from all sorts of creditors. You’ll figure out what’s best for you.

2) It’s irrelevant whether your lender charges off and/or sells your 2nd/HELOC to a debt buyer or not. Makes no difference whatsoever, so ignore it. If, in fact, the debt is sold to a new entity, and you receive a letter from the new owner, DO NOT bother sending a debt validation letter. It accomplishes nothing for you, does not affect your legal standing, and is generally a waste of time and effort. Plus, it signals to the debt owner that they have the correct address, and that you, as a debtor, are concerned, stressed, and naive enough to send it. BTW, a new debt owner is required, under the provisions of the FDCPA, to send a letter to the debtor advising them, among other things, of their right to have the debt validated. Means nothing, so forget about it.

3) When, eventually, you engage in settlement discussions with the lender’s recovery department (no, not the collections dept), you will most likely be asked some prying questions, and be asked to disclose financials. Politely refuse to discuss these. DO NOT disclose any personal info, to include your plans, and absolutely no financial or employment info. One member posted that his attorney quipped that giving financial info to a creditor is akin to “pre-judgment discovery.” A creditor doesn’t need that stuff in order to make you an offer. As the oft repeated maxim states, “knowledge is power.” And, as in the following humorous age old buyer-seller exchange. Buyer (Borrower): “How much do you want?” Seller (Lender): “How much you got?”

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37 Comments

  1. What if your second is held by the same bank as your first, in our case BoA. I’d love to see if BoA will mod our 1st and settle our 2nd for a 1/3 of the outstanding balance. Those two items would put our home back into an affordable scenerio for us since our income has dropped by 50% of what it was when we purchased in 2004. Have you any thoughts on whether this would be a proposition worth making. We are currently scheduled to hear from our mod analyst on or before 9/24. We’ve already submitted the requested documentation of our financial situation (7/14/09) and were just told an analyst actually posted the note to file about the 9/24 on or b4 call. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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  2. Great question Cheryl. I got my 1st modified with B of A (investor Freddie Mac) and I want to learn how to settle my 2nd with B of A (investor B of A).

    Any thoughts?

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  3. Settling also destroys your credit rating. While I agree if you are in danger of foreclosure it is a very good option, but a settlement is the only derogatory item on my credit report and it dropped my score 90 points, 740 to 650. It is also coded as a foreclosure on your FICO making it tough to impossible under todays rules to qualify for another mortgage. We took a settlement thinking it was the right thing to do, then my wife was able to land a great job, that needed a relocation, and now we can’t get qualified to purchase a new home because of that one item. Once settled there is no going back. We should not have settled, as a couple of late payments, would have been much easier to clear up in our case, than trying to explain to an underwriter who doesn’t care, that nothing was foreclosed on, here’s the documents that say that!

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  4. Will this work for a HELOC?

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  5. i bought a home in feb. “05”. the price was $94,900. i had a down pyt. i owe around 82,000 on the first loan and have never been late. i acquired a 2nd loan to pay off vehicles, credit cards, home improvements (other loans). i’ve never been late. my house was appraised at $156,500 in the spring of this yr. i owe 148,000. my monthly tab for the combined twosome is $1,330. it is awful high. the int. rate is extremely high on the 2nd one. it’s 10.90%. i read that balloon loans are low pyt., low int. loans. mine is the opposite. some people use their homes for a.t.m.’s. i needed a roof, a driveway, and a chimney to heat my home. it’s baseboard electric and there’s no way i could afford electric heat. my question is: ” in my situation–what would you do?” i have too much tied up in it to let it go. i have a balloon attached at the end of the 15 yrs. (now 13) that requires a lump sum pyt. for the total of the loan. that’s like 300% profit. they say it’s not mortgage fraud. what else is it?

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  6. Okay, Mr. Bedard. I see you hold great expertise concerning the mortgage industry and its issues, but how about my case? I have two mortgages, two different banks. The first one has recently approved me for a modification, while the second just told me that the loan was CHARGED OFF. I made an “agreement” with the second for $100/month, no interest. Too good to be true? Okay, I am ready for chapter 7 due to partial unemployment and excessive financial obligations, so here are my questions:

    –Is this CHARGE OFF from the second going to mess up with my already approved modification on the first (it is approved but the first payment has not been made yet; it is due on Dec. 1st)?

    –Since I WANT to keep the house and WILL reaffirm the first, can I reaffirm this second CHARGED OFF loan, since it will cost me only $100/month? Won’t they try to take advantage of my good faith and then try to charge me for the whole amount or under the original (horrible) terms? –9.875% A.P.R., $465/month.

    –Can I TRUST the letter they sent me that shows the agreement for $100/month, and use it in court as an evidence that my loan is under an agreement and being PAID accordingly?

    –If I decide NOT to reaffirm the second, will I have problems to keep my home???

    Home current MSRP: $150K
    Balance on first: $220K
    Balance on second (charged off): $50K
    First mortgage payment after modification: $1,460.00
    Second mortgage payment under ‘charge off’ agreement: $100.

    Thanks a lot,

    I really appreciate your help. NOBODY is willing to help me with the matter and I could NOT find any case similar to mine on the net.

    Best,

    F

    –Can

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  7. please,any proffesional can help me to settle a second loan with Chase.
    thanks

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  8. My question is this:

    My husband & I are currently going through a joint chapter 7 bancruptcy. We are also getting divorced. We will not finalize our divorce until after the bancruptcy debt is discharged which should be complete in four months.

    We plan on re affirming on our first mortgage which we owe $149.000 on. We do not plan on re affirming on our second mortgage which we owe $53,000 on. Our residence appears to be worth about $178,000. This puts as at about $23,000 short. We want to stay in our house until next spring as room mates & continue to make our payments to both the lenders of the first & second mortgages. The second mortgage was a home equity line of credit & we live In Wisconsin.

    We definately want out of our house by next April but want to avoid foreclosure due to the negative rating on our credit reports. We are already filing for bancruptcy & want to avoid this hit as well to our credit.

    Can we sell our house next Spring on our own & pay off the first mortgage, give what equity remains to the second mortgage holder, & walk away from the deal avoiding foreclosure if we don’t reaffirm on our second mortgage during the bancruptcy?

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  9. One thing you did not mention in your article is that the Bank’s view the 2nd mortgage as a Home Line of Credit therefore it’s not treated as a conventional mortgage. It is more like a Credit Card, and like any other Credit Card, when borrowers settle their 2nd mortgages they end up receiving a 1099C for the forgiven amount. The 2nd mortgages are a major cause of borrowers claiming Chapter 13 which stays on their records for almost 10 years. The other option would be to incorporate the 1099C with the income taxes and the depending on the borrower’s tax percentile and the amount they will owe the IRS, they can then settle with the IRS and forgo the Bankruptcy.

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  10. Sorry for my Typos – First and foremost, this week I’ve learned that if the second is a Home Equity Line Of Credit (HELOC), filing Chapter 7 Bankruptcy will not affect getting rid of it. One thing the above article didn’t mention is that the Bank’s view the 2nd mortgage as a Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC), at least that’s what’s happening in my case. Therefore the 2nd is not treated as a conventional mortgage, so none of the new Government rules don’t apply to it. The 2nd AKA (HELOC) is more like a Credit Card or a revolving line of credit, and like any other Credit Card, when the borrower settles his/her 2nd they end up receiving a 1099C for the forgiven amount. When the bank forgives a portion of what the borrower owes, they have to 1099C the borrower to show the IRS they have sustained a loss. In my opinion, these days the 2nd mortgages are a major cause of borrowers claiming Chapter 13 which stays on their records for almost 10 years. All the experts that I’ve talked with have all referred me to a bankruptcy attorney. I actually have an appointment with one this coming Tuesday June 15th just to see what he will say in regards to my case. The other option for the borrower in dealing with the 2nd would be to apply the 1099C to her/his income taxes at the end of the year. Depending on the borrower’s tax percentile and the amount he/she will owe the IRS, they can then settle/negotiate with the IRS using the help of a professional and hopefully forgo the Bankruptcy. Also, a Bankruptcy is not the end of the line.

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  11. I need direction as to what step my husband and I should take, so we can move forward; in hopes to relocate within a year from now.

    We bought a house (2 mortgages 1st arm, 2nd fixed), while we were both in the military, in 2005. My husband seperated in 2006 and I was involuntarily medically retired in Aug 2007, and have had required surgeries; including this year. We kept our mortgage companies aware of our situation and tried to refinance but didn’t make enough to qualify. We also had a death in the family and had to empty our Thrift Savings Plan (TSP) and savings account. We were unable to make our mortgage payments beginning Dec 2007. The 1st mortgage finally foreclosed Sep 2008, but we are still concerned about our 2nd mortgage, because we can’t afford to make payments on it. We have been able to continue to make payments on our other non-mortgage expenses and rent (we’re roomating) using our disability compensation.

    Thanks in advance for any and all information.

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  12. I negotiated a settlement on my HELOC because this would help me refinance my first that is under water. Both my mortgage and 2nd were current and never late. I negotiated a settlement and I got a Charge Off on my credit report even though I was never never on the HELOC. I found this out while I was trying to refinance my mortgage. Terrible mistake.

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  13. Aurora 2nd Mortage reduced payoff “offer”..PLEASE HELP!

    After countless hours of researching, I have thankfully come accross this site. In the interest of brevity…random/unsolciited offer arrives from Aurora to pay my 2nd off at roughly $45 cents on the dollar in December of 2010. They ask me for a certified check to a PO BOX!!!!! Tell me it will be reported as “paid-in-full in the letter”, will give me no other info other than to say (verbally of course) that it is not a charge off, not a negotiated settlement etc. Trying to verify from Fannie via telephone (yeah right) they are indeed offering this, but this doesnt feel right. Does ANYONE know of anyone who had a succesful outcome? This is not loan modification of any kind. Nevere been late, credit in the 720 range. I DONT GET IT! Trying to call Attorney General in CO now to see if there are any complaints, but any help here will be so welcomed!

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  14. Please help to to settle the HELOC with Chase. I’m currently on trial payment for my 1st loan with Chase but the my HELOC(2nd line of credit) is 3 months payment behind. Would that possible I can settle with Chase? Please help me, i’m very depressed and don’t know what I have to do. I highly appreciated for your help.

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  15. I WENT TO FORCLOSURE NOV 2009 I HAD A HELOC FOR 65K I JUST RECIEVED A LETTER FROM CHASE TO PAYOFF THE HELOC FOR 6500 I WAS THINKING OF OFFERING 3250 WILL THIS MAKE MY CREDIT WORSE PLUS A 1099 WOULD GIVE ME A TAX HIT OF 10K I AM IN FLA AND STATUE OF LIMITAIONS IS 4 yrs is it worth paying i have nothing to take your recomendation the house was sold at a 55k loss also from chase

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  16. PLEASE,ANYBODY KNOWS IF I CAN SETTLEMENT MY 2ND LOAN WITH CHASE EVEN IF THE ACTUAL VALUE OF THE HOME IS MORE THAN MY FIRST MORTGAGE WITH PRIVATE LENDER.DO THEY SETTLEMENT IN THIS SITUATION?
    1ST $315,000
    2ND $105,000
    3RD $55,000
    ACTUAL VALUE $380,000

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  17. Hello Luis,

    Yes it should be possible to settle your 2nd mortgage since you are underwater. If you refer to the following thread it will explain in detail everything you need to know about settling a second mortgage. Please feel free to join our forum at no costs. There are thousands of homeowners and professionals alike going through similar situations.

    http://www.loansafe.org/forum/debt-settlement/37996-strategy-settling-your-2nd.html

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  18. Here’s an interesting situation:

    Stats:

    2nd home
    1st mtg: $145K
    2nd mtg (HELOC): $115K
    Total loans: $260K
    Non-distress comparable value up through last month: $145-150K
    Distress (REOs and short sales) comparable value: $125-130K
    Have been current on 1st mtg since last mo. (started to default with a short sale in mind at some future point)
    2nd (HELOC) has been in default for almost 3 years.
    No NOD filed, no actions.

    A non-distressed sale just closed 3 days ago for $193K .

    What are my chances of being able to move forward with a short sale in light of this recent comp? I wonder if the 1st will even approve a short sale after they obtain their BPO and whether the 2nd will even negotiate a settlement – or just proceed straight to foreclosure.

    Experiences and suggestions appreciated!

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  19. Hi there,
    Wondering if you could answer some questions for me?
    I would be very appreciative.

    We have a 1st just got modified, our pymt went up $1k per mo.
    Our second is $25 balance with Citifinancial.

    They actually asked ME if I wanted to settle a few months ago when I was calling in our monthly payment, due to the fact that the principle has not gone down at all….

    Anyway, we just wrote them a hardship letter and requested like a payoff of like $2500.

    Our 1st bal. is $560, home value is $450 but increasing quickly…..may be much higher, not sure…

    1. What do you think our chances are of getting them to take a lump sum settlement?

    2. I didn’t think this affected my credit until I started reading this forum today…
    I was hoping we could get another refi soon….ugh…

    Is it never gonna end? Pure misery I tell ya.
    ~Mary in Orange County, CA

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  20. I’m sorry we’re not able to get back to you all sooner. If you have any questions about your mortgage situation or would like suggestions on settling your 2nd mortgage, please join our FREE forum here on Loansafe.org with over 100,000 professionals and homeowners alike.

    http://www.loansafe.org/forum/

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  21. evan bedard,

    How would you handle receiving foreclosure papers from the second on a house with equity after the first? I really want to settle a lump sum payment. Any advice would be sooo appreciated.

    -Sick to my Stomach
    LUIS,

    Evan Bedard,

    Hi Luis,

    I just read your post on LOANSAFE and your case is similar to mine. I have received foreclosure papers. I realize you went through this a while ago but I was wondering whatever happened? Thanks.
    jeff r,

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  22. Hi,
    Was wondering if someone can help me figure something out..
    I have a First with a balance of 391,000 and a 2nd mortgage with a balance of 62,000 with Citifinancial that was charge off in 2007..I recently received a statement letting me know the balance and stated that it was for informational purpose and the loan was accelerated, after 7 years I never had heard from them by mail or phone and the all of a sudden I get this statement..and wanted to know if the could foreclose on my home

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  23. Mortgage is currently about 600 days past due. About six months ago I got set up for a loan modification. I have not been able to pay that due to a decrease in salary again. I sustained an on the job injury and have been on workers comp only receiving 1/3 salary. I want to keep my home. I have bad credit. Please respond with possible support. I’m falling apart and dying inside.

    Owed 100,000
    Behind 25,000
    Total now 125,000

    Original Loan Payment 1,200
    Modified Payment Plan 770

    I earn on workers comp 800 a month

    Hoping to return to work within the month then I will receive more income. The cable and phone are off. I paid off all credit card debt except 6,000. I pay them 50 a month on plan. I have a teenage daughter that I have full custody (16 years old) mother pays no child support.

    I don’t know what to do…..Anyone suggestions.

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  24. Cheryl,

    Need advice !
    I have Chase first 800k, Chase second 250k. NY house worth 600K. Chase modified first 2 years ago, I have not paid on second. Chase sent letter 2 years ago Lets settle for 37k. I did nothing. I am looking to settle now. ACI requested 2 year tax returns, I sent them. Now they want my corporation papers and bank statements. I refused.(My business is now doing better) They told me 3 weeks ago since I wont send them anymore paperwork they will Now settle for 40k.I told them 25k one payment.I want to settle but not sure how to handle. Do they make payments plans? Should I call them back ? Any advice ?

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  25. Louie:
    Cheryl,

    Need advice !
    I have Chase first 800k, Chase second 250k. NY house worth 600K. Chase modified first 2 years ago, I have not paid on second. Chase sent letter 2 years ago Lets settle for 37k. I did nothing. I am looking to settle now. ACI requested 2 year tax returns, I sent them. Now they want my corporation papers and bank statements. I refused.(My business is now doing better) They told me 3 weeks ago since I wont send them anymore paperwork they will Now settle for 40k.I told them 25k one payment.I want to settle but not sure how to handle. Do they make payments plans? Should I call them back ? Any advice ?

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  26. Were lenders engaged in anything that could be considered unethical when approving helocs during the boom because of inflated values?
    I feel it was too easy to obtain our Heloc and now I want Wells Fargo to release us, as we cannot afford the second. Our first is with a different lender and current.

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  27. If you had equity, the home appraised correctly with no fraud, and your met the credit score requirements, then no, they followed the law. The only way out of it is if your 2nd is underwater and you make a settlement with them or wipe it out through a bankruptcy cram down.

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  28. I had a HELOC on my primary residence. I have been underwater on my first but was able to have it modified 1 week after my send (HELOC). Did a charge off. I have not heard from them since the first 2 months of the charge off. They sent letters and I reached out but we never connected. Now up it is September. Should I still try to negotiate with them? I don’t understand a charge off. How will it affect my taxes?

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  29. FL,

    I filed chapter 7 five years ago, never reaffirmed 1st or 2nd mortgage. About a year ago stopped paying 2nd mortgage and now made 500 dollar offer on 2nd mortgage with Citi. Now I just have to always keep 1st mortgage paid up. I found the info that you don’t owe a penny if no affirmation agreement and the 2nd can’t and won’t foreclose do to having a first mortgage. Now I owe what house is worth! :-)

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  30. Cindy Levana,

    Cindy, did Citi take the 500 you offered them? If so, did they dive you a letter stating that’s the account has been paid and closed? Thanks Janet

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  31. I live in California; (Oct-2014) if I stop payment on my non-recourse second and eventually settle for ~ 10% will tax laws expire causing me to owe income tax?

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  32. Hello,
    I am real estate agent helping a client. My client had 2 mortgages on her home. She filed Chapter 7 BK in 2009. She stopped paying the 2nd mortgage after the BK discharge. I obtained the credit reports from Transunion and Experian. The 2nd mortgage is reported as Charge Off account as of July 2009. Balance $0. Last reported 07/2009.
    I called the creditor PNC Bank to negotiate this account. PNC Bank could not locate the account by Social Security Number or the account number. So my best guess is that this account has been sold to collection agency right around July 2009. However PNC Bank doesnt have any information about this account and to who it was sold. I combed through 2 credit reports and did not find any other creditor reporting this account. I understand that its against the law to collect on it due to the BK protection. The lien is still on the title of my client’s home. The only way to remove this lien is by locating current creditor and settling the account. My big question is how can I locate the owner of this account or is there another way of clearing the title of the home?
    Thank you very much in advance!

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  33. Hello,

    The reason may be that they never sold it and just charged it off or it is a mistake sitting in limbo land as a shadow debt waiting for someone to discover it. The only way to locate the owner is just what you have been doing. There is nothing else you can do.

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  34. We have been dealing with 5 different mortgage companies over the past 4 years since we stopped paying our 2nd after the debt was discharged in a bankruptcy. We did not realize that this debt had been discharged and continued to pay on it for years to a tune of over $32,000.00 AFTER the bankruptcy had been discharged before being told we were no longer obligated to this debt. However, the lien remains. Chase held the lien at that time and told me they would NOT come after the house and they did not, they sold it. Time and again it gets sold to date now we still owe on our first and combined the total with the first is MORE than the house is even WORTH!! We had been given an offer at one time and wish badly we had taken it because this latest company is threatening coarsely to foreclose. The originator of the 2nd did a “bait and switch” as well as a huge inflation on the value of our home. The mortgage has been sold “mis-coded” and I am sure there are other violations I am unaware but do not know the seriousness of them. WE DID hire an attorney who took a LOT of our money, advised us to more or less stop paying our first too and then just save our money and find a new home. Well, geesh, we have lived here for 27 years and had NOT ONE late payment on that first and raised 6 children here. That advice felt realllly bad but if it is the only advice thats solid ….we need HELP and if anyone here knows SOLID advice…please please pass it on. Thank you very very much! Philip and Jana in Michigan

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  35. I have an outstanding $30,000 heloc with PNC..My first mortgage was just modified and is current..Can’t afford both payments, seeing that a lot of people seem to be settling these for 5-10 % of the loans value was wondering how much and attorney would charge to settle this and hoping PNC will take 5-10 % of the loans value..Any info or thoughts are appreciated..

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  36. Mr. Bedard,

    I could use your advice. We had a 2nd Mortgage that was sold to Ocwen over two years ago. Ocwen NEVER serviced our loan. Despite countless attempts on our part to contact them to try to pay and keep our loan current, Ocwen repeatedly told us they either had no record of our loan or our loan was inactive. They never once tried to collect from us. Over 24 months later, they have now sold our loan to a debt collector who wants not only to collect our loan, but the unpaid interest from the last 26 months. In my opinion, we should not be responsible for the unpaid interest since we are not to blame for the non-payment. In addition, this new company wants us to sign paperwork admitting we are in arrears. Again, I don’t feel this is right, since we were not in arrears, rather Ocwen was. What are our options? Do we have to affirm this loan with them? Do we have to pay the past interest? Do we have any legal rights to stop this?

    Thank you,
    K Sand

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