Our ASC/Wells Saga and Mediation update

[drea28]

Hi everybody,
We have an ASC/Wells epic saga that has been dragging on for 24 months now. We have been trying to get a mod but have been unsuccesful so far. We have done everything they asked time and time again. We did get approved once when I adjusted our budget to show a small defecit, but the payment they offered was stilll unaffordable. It only reduced our payment by $400 a month and was nowhere near 31% of our income. Our saga began when our payment went up by $1600 a month because of an escrow shortage. They did adjust to draw out the payments over 3 years but it was still unaffordable at $3900 a month. We had the usual job losses, reduced income, medical expenses that most others on these boards have experienced. We tried endlessly for a mod...we tried making home affordable and were denied. We then tried HAMP. We requested the docs over 10 times and never received them. Eventually we were told that we never got them because our investor did not participate. We tried again for a mod from ASC/Wells...until one day we got a call from someone offering HAMP. I nearly exploded with anger wanting to know why we were being offered this now when we were told so many different times before that we were not eligible. She didn't know. I escalated to the office of the president - Susy Young. Sent all my info to her and questioned he several times on whether we were eligible for HAMP or not. She kept giving me vauge answers and saying she was waiting to hear. Finally she said our investor did not participate. Then she called and said we were denied for a mod AGAIN...In the meantime we had registered for mediation with the state of NJ. We went yesterday...what a load of BS!!! When we got there the lawyer told us that Wells could not offer any kind of in-house mod...that the lowest they could go on rate was market, and that they were going to consider us for HAMP! You have got to be kidding me right???? After being told a hundred times that our investor does not particiapte??? Our attorney said to let it go, that it will by us time at the very least. So I did. But I also brought paperwork with me that I downloaded from CTS link. Thank God for this site and you wonderful people for sharing the info about that page. I showed it to our attorney and theirs and told them that other loans in our pool had been modified down to 2 % and extended to 40 years, so either way, I had been lied to. Either by Wells telling me that in house mods could go no lower than market rate, or by them telling me my investor does not participate in HAMP. The only resolution that came out of mediation was an extension of our sale date to Feb 10th and another mediation date on the 8th to follow up... I also found out that I could have probably filed a lawsuit for the escrow amount on our loan papers being misrepresented, but our 3 year statute of limitations was up in November!!!! I filled out HAMP paperwork and sent it in this morning. We will see where this goes, but I bet it will just end up being another round of lies and excuses. My attorney advised contacting my state senators and congressmen, which I will do as well. Hope this info helps somebody else. I will continue to post and update as things develop. Thanks for listening everybody!

[drea28]

Hi everybody,
Just wanted to post an update....My head is spinning right now and I can't believe what has happened. Yesterday, A UPS package was delivered to me - overnighted from Wells Fargo/ASC. I opened it, expecting to find a copy of the HAMP application documents that the negotiatior from ASC told us we needed to fill out when we were at our mediation hearing Monday. My housing counsellor had already given me a copy and I had sent them back, and I assumed this was the usual round of double-duty paperwork. WRONG! I couldn't believe my eyes... It was a HAMP Trial Modification Plan!!!! After I settled from the shock and read the papers to see what the payment was, I didn't know whether I should be shouting with joy from the rooftops or just plain skeptical and scared. The payment is GREAT - $2029 a month down from $3961. I immediately called my housing counsellor and she had me fax it over to her to be looked at by my state appointed mediation attorney. My housing rep was very enthusiastic and recommended acceptance, even though she was disappointed they hadn't mentioned this at the mediation hearing yesterday. The paperwork was dated Jan. 4th - same day as mediation, so this already had to be in the works. When I heard back from the lawyer, he echoed these same concerns and some of my fears as well. He thinks that this could result in me just making several payments and no final mod being offered since it seems to just have come out of nowhere. The rep from ASC who was on the phone at mediation had no knowledge of a HAMP trial mod being offered, and said the only thing they could do for us was consider us for HAMP. An in-house mod was out of the question becuase they could only offer us market rate and that would not bring our payment anywhere near 31%. I do know that our housing counsellor asked we be considered for HAMP when she sent our docs in for the original mediation request back in October, but I can't believe if they had it in the works that the litigation rep from ASC had no clue about it. Honestly, she didn't seem to have much of a clue about anything though, and seemed very unwilling to help. I was actually suprised that they didn't have anyone from the office of the president or higher-up on the phone that day. Anyway, I want to put this out to you guys...what do you think??? How many have gotten a trial mod and then no final??? I know they already had to do one NPV test to get me this far, but do you think they will try and come back later and say my second NPV failed, or my investor did not approve or participate in HAMP??? My counsellor seems to think my investor has to participate for me to have even gotten this far. I'm not sure. My laywer didn't seem to think so. He thinks they will try to come back with some excuse to deny me later. He said I don't have to accept, but if I do, he would just think of it as paying the same rent I would have had to if the house had gone to sale and we had to move out. And at the very least it is buying us anywhere from 3-6 months more time in the house. Any advice or other's experience would be great. Thanks!!!

[stillhoping]

I could definitely be wrong, but my understanding is the HAMP trials guarantee a final modification in the end - although the final mod may be a different payment. Kudos!
I have already gone through an in-house forbearance with reduced payments and did have the unfavorable result you express concern. After completing an in-house forbearance, we were just given another forbearance at the same payment we've been seeking relief from a year ago. I have denied to participate in further forbearance agreements or payments until they make a decision or guarantee of a final mod. I am waiting to see what will happen. (Btw, I have experienced the same thing - investor not participating in HAMP. Our investor is WF, which they tried to conceal to save face.) Most likely now we don't even qualify as our late payments and reduced forbearance put us over the 729,750 cap. Good times!

[Evan Bedard]

Well actually the HAMP trial period does not guarantee that you will be approved for a permanent modification. We have many people in here going through this trial period and you will find that some get approved and some do not..

[stillhoping]

Good to know. Not assuring, but good to be aware.

[drea28]

Evan or anybody else - any idea if they had to get investor approval to even do the trial mod, or do they just go to the investor at the end for the final approval? The biggest worry here is they are going to come back and say the investor does not partcipate. We asked to be considered for HAMP at least a dozen times, and when we never received the paperwork were told if we didnt get the application it was most likely because the investor does not participate. Then even Susy Young from the Exec. office told us that the investor didn't participate. So this to me means either 1. - They are letting us make these trial payments knowing that it is not going to turn permanent because the investor will not approve the mod 2. - The investor recently agreed to do HAMP (highly unlikely IMHO) or 3. They lied when they said the investor didn't participate because they didn't want us to be considered for HAMP.
I am really hoping they had to get investor approval even to do the trial but I don't think that is likely. Hopefully someone out there knows the answer!

[stillhoping]

Sorry drea28 - no help there.

My lastest news - I've been in contact with a rep Brenda at the Executive Offices. Personally faxed her all my final review paperwork, which she confirmed receipt. (Were then offered another forbearance which I personally and officially declined.) Brenda told me two days ago that the negotiator said I can disregard the last forbearance and that she would look at my file again.) Also spoke to Brenda yesterday. Today, the website is down (which I check several times a week), so I call Loss Mitigation directly to see if they have any new notes on my file. (Another side note, I got a call two nights ago saying they are processing my final modification - however my updated docs that I sent Brenda were not yet scanned into the system). So today Loss Mitigation says, we don't have any updated docs since Oct, and we don't show that an negotiator is assigned to your file. (I called twice just to double check I wasn't first speaking to a moron.) Nope. They don't even show a negotiator.
The departments are all working independently and not communicating, no wonder. I know there's a negotiator on my file, just as I know they received my 18 page fax on 12/15. However, to bridge the gap in their communication, I just re-faxed my docs directly to Loss Mitigation. (Which will be outdated in another week....)
Stay cool and keep moving forward, patient, stay cool and keep moving forward..... ugh!

[brd1225]

Sorry drea28 - no help there.

My lastest news - I've been in contact with a rep Brenda at the Executive Offices. Personally faxed her all my final review paperwork, which she confirmed receipt. (Were then offered another forbearance which I personally and officially declined.) Brenda told me two days ago that the negotiator said I can disregard the last forbearance and that she would look at my file again.) Also spoke to Brenda yesterday. Today, the website is down (which I check several times a week), so I call Loss Mitigation directly to see if they have any new notes on my file. (Another side note, I got a call two nights ago saying they are processing my final modification - however my updated docs that I sent Brenda were not yet scanned into the system). So today Loss Mitigation says, we don't have any updated docs since Oct, and we don't show that an negotiator is assigned to your file. (I called twice just to double check I wasn't first speaking to a moron.) Nope. They don't even show a negotiator.
The departments are all working independently and not communicating, no wonder. I know there's a negotiator on my file, just as I know they received my 18 page fax on 12/15. However, to bridge the gap in their communication, I just re-faxed my docs directly to Loss Mitigation. (Which will be outdated in another week....)
Stay cool and keep moving forward, patient, stay cool and keep moving forward..... ugh!

Suggestion, Send the same file via Registered Mail as well as Fax. It helps.

[drea28]

Hey everybody - I found out some more info about my trial mod tonight and wanted to share.
Yesterday I faxed the signed trial mod papers and all my docs (tax returns, financial worksheet, hardship, etc...) over to Wells. My plan was to get to the post office today and send the originals certified return receipt, but one of my babies is sick, so unfortunately I am homebound. I decided to call and check to make sure they had received the fax and had it in their system yet or not.
Spoke with a very nice girl named Branden who informed me, that yes they had received it, and it was in the system. So far so good.
Then I asked if she worked in loss mitigation and she said yes. I asked if maybe she could please help me by answering a question that had been weighing on me. I explained my concern over making these trial payments and then the final mod being brought to the investor and them rejecting it because they don't participate. She looked at the notes on my account and said an actual negotiator had sat down with the file and gone through everything and in order to have gotten this kind of workout the investor would have had to be included and notified already. I further questioned her on the nature of the final mod and she told me that what was worked out was a 2% interest rate, 40 year term and a pricipal forebearance of $91,400!!! I couldn't beleive it. This is exactly what I have been asking, begging, and pleading with them to do for the past year! Before that, we didn't need the forebearance, but with a payment of almost $4,000 a month, those past due balances add up quickly. I am putting aside my anger and frustration over the fact that if this had been resolved months ago, we would not have $100,000 in arrearages. Instead I am looking at the positives
- I get to keep my home
- I will possibly have a new payment of $2,000 a month which much less than what I would pay in rent for a house of this size.
- In the end, the total amount that I will be paying for my home will be half as much as we would have paid if we had kept our original terms - $342,500 @ 9.675% for 30 yrs. (we never intended to keep the original loan for the entire term, but even if we had done a refi after 2 years, as was the plan, we will still end paying about the same for the house in total, adding in the forebarance portion due at the end of the loan).
The only drawback I can see is if we were to move anytime soon. We never intended to leave, but to ease my pain over all this drama, my parents told us a month ago that they have had it with NJ taxes and want to move to Delaware, so if we lost this fight we were planning on following them. Now I'm starting to think maybe we should think long and hard and if there is any possibility we would move to stay close to my parents that we shouldn't do the final deal...I hate to do that after all the energy I have put into this though, and it kind of seems like a slap in the face to everybody else that has been fighting so desperately and wants a mod but can't get one...

So what does everybody think? Sound like a good deal????
My head is still spinning a bit trying to process, so maybe I'm missing something.

[stillhoping]

drea28 - Is your trial mod part of HAMP? The reason I ask, is because I spoke to a rep in Loss Mitigation before receiving my trial mod and she told me it we shouldn't have any problem if we make our payments, everyone had already signed off our our loan mod at 3.93%, worked out to $1400 less - so I was thrilled. Signed papers immediately when we got them and overnighted each payment by the 1st (when they were due on the 15th).
After sending the necessary docs for the final review, they offered us another forbearance at the same amount we've been seeking relief from. (I don't want to put a damper on your news, but like all your prior experience, take it with a grain of salt - at least you know what they are working with at this point.)
Also, I highly recommend taking the difference from your trial payment from your regular payment (if possible) in a savings account. If they don't ask for it in the end, you'll have a little extra money for other bills.... but they still hanging the difference and past due payments over our head - so it's better to be prepared. (Unfortunately, we are not prepared.)

Personally, if all is what they say, take the deal. Most likely your credit is already ruined, right? (I know mine is.) This is your best opportunity to repair your credit. If you go to Delaware, you won't be able to buy if you have low credit scores, especially in this economy. If you decide you want to go to Delaware in 6 months, try to rent out your house. Earn back your credit while you have an opportunity. (You won't get a second chance to do so.) My two cents. (I'm obviously not a professional - but do wish you the very best.)

On a different note, I've been in contact with the executive offices and sent them all my paperwork on 12/15. Yesterday I got frustrated when Loss Mitigation didn't show records of my docs when I had confirmation from the exec. offices that they had them. Also, Loss Mitigation didn't even show an active negotiator working on my file? I was floored. Today, the rep I am working with in the exec. offices Brenda - told me not to contact Loss Mitigation. She assured me a negotiator, that works within the Presidential offices, is working on my file. I told her I faxed my docs to Loss Mitigation as well to cover my basis, and she asked me not to do that in the future. ??? "It can confuse everything", she said, and 'she would inform Loss Mitigation that my file is being handled in the Presidential Offices'. (Presidential and Executive offices are one of the same.) I thought this was very strange.

[stillhoping]

Oh, drea28 - my trial mod was not part of HAMP.

[drea28]

Still - Yes my mod is through HAMP. All my trial paperwork has the official Making Home Affordable logo and my counsellor said it was HAMP.
I am taking this all very cautiously, and by no means think we are home free. I do have a bit more hope than before though. As far as my credit goes, it is completely destroyed from the 24 months of no payments. And the difference between the payments doesn't really matter to me either because of the fact that we haven't paid on the loan in 2 years. We have a sale date in Febrary that will be pushed back if we make the trial payments. If they end up not making us a final mod offer or giving us any BS in the end, we have the option of another mediation date and a chance to fight a little more. In the end though, if nothing works out, we are walking away and filing chapter 7. And if we oew them even more than we do now...too bad! That's the least I can do to thank them for the 2 years of anguish, anxiety, torment and general he** they have put me through.

As far as you interaction with the Office of the President goes, it seems pretty common that loss mitigation has no clue what is going on when the OOP takes your file lol. When I was dealing with Suzy Young from the OOP, I didn't contact loss mit. at all, and when I got calls asking me to set up a repayment plan or qualify me for a mod, she told me not to worry about them- that I had been assigned a special negotiator and my file was being worked on. Then again it always seems like the right hand has no idea what the left is doing over there. Look at me on mediation day - the "special litigation" contact from loss mitigation had NO CLUE that ASC/Wells had approved me for and sent me out paperwork on a Hamp trial mod that day. And she is the contact for litigation!!! Shouldn't she know EVERYTHING??? She was looking at the notes on my file as we spoke. The attorney representing Wells was the one that phoned her for info! But yet she saw nothing in my file, and told me that she would start the process for considering me for HAMP. What a bunch of idiots! Sorry but the more I think about it the angrier I get lol. I just can't believe that people are so incompetent and have no clue...not to mention the extra stress and heartache they cause! So no, I wouldn't be suprised at all that loss mit. has no clue right now. Just keep at it, and keep informed. If you haven't written yor congressmen, the President, all the execs at Wells, and the Office of the Comptroller or Currency yet, then maybe you should. My lawyer recommended it to me, saying it usually helps. I am saving it for the end battle though, if they don't grant me my final mod!
Hope you get some good news!

[stillhoping]

drea28 - Thanks. I have written everyone, expect the Comptroller of Currency - but I have a complaint form ready to fill out when I am ready to send it as well. No it doesn't seem to help, unless they get all of us to write and continue writing - so I am hoping everyone else is doing the same thing.

Thanks for the sharing your experience with executive offices vs. Loss Mitigation. This happens to be more of the fault of the executive offices, because they are not updating my file and scanning my docs into the system. Loss Mitigation can't know what is going on unless the execs are properly inputting the information. I will think good thoughts, and prefer to think the people in the exec offices are too busy trying to quickly modify loans, rather than input things into the system. (How's that for positive thinking?)

Your experience at mediation is unbelievable! I need to find out if CA requires mediation before they can take your home. ???

I was reading more stuff on the CTSlink last night. Looking up WF as the investor, still not knowing what group I am in - but interesting to see what mod terms they are offering! Is there a way you can see how many of the mods are part of HAMP? Or do you think all the mods on the CTSlink are HAMP mods?

Good luck with your HAMP trial. If it's officially HAMP, I really think you'll be okay. Of course, you can never be sure until the final mod is in your hands - but it sounds like you've made it through the hardest part. Can't wait to hear you posting your final terms!!!

[drea28]

Hi everybody - just wanted to update.
I filled out the trial mod paperwork and faxed it to Wells via the number on the packet on Jan. 6th. I also made copies (in triplicate ) and sent the original signed docs in via the UPS next day envelope included with my trial package. Did this on the 11th. I called Wells twice - Once on the 5th and then again today, to make sure they had received both sets of docs. Both times I was told they had them.
So today I will make my first trial payment via the phone easy pay system. Keep your fingers crossed for me that nothing "magically" gets lost and they get my payment ok.
I will keep updating as I get new info and as things progress. I have a sale date scheduled for February 10th, so I will be checking on that to make sure it is pushed back.
Thanks!

[stillhoping]

Good luck drea28. I hope everything works out for you.

[thewigs3]

Could someone please share any names and phone numbers you have to any exec that MIGHT be able to give us better info.

You can't take anything they say as the truth, even if it's in writing. Everytime you call the person on the other end gives you a different answer or they can't give you any answers.

They have jerked us around since last May, but put us on a trial plan (they said for 3 months). We made our payment, sent all the paperwork they asked for when they asked. When I called to make ask about the status of the trial and to make a Jan payment, I was told they canceled the trial because we failed to provide paperwork they requested, and we would have to start the whole process we just spent 7 months on, over. They are liers. I have a doc from Oct 18th that said they were still reviewing our situation, there was nothing we needed to do and they would contact us within 60 to 90 dyas (ya right). We were told to contact later in the week after our acct went back to collections. I can't explain the meltdown I had.

I call back and this guy said it appeared that they dropped us because my unemployment would only be available until May 2010, not because any paperwork was missing. I explained that was incorrect, and asked him to look closer at the doc he had right infront of him. My benefits are good until Oct 2010.

Suddenly they can get us into another plan, with our payment $5 cheaper than the prev trial plan. I had to spend $11 and re-fax everything again. We are beginning to think that they will not get us approved for the modification because I am on unemployment. No place does it say if you are unemployed you can not qualify.

We are hand to mouth right now. Our fear is that we will struggle to be sure we meet every payment date and we will be let down and denied and still have nothing to show for all this. We will not give in to these bastards!!! We will win, in some way, some how.

[calgirl67]

Typical of Wells Fargo. I have called every number I could get my hands on and they still don't know what is going on with my HAMP mod. I completed my 3rd trial payment Dec 29 and now they say they can't find it....

It's just so rediculous I don't know whether to laugh or cry..

[thewigs3]

WTF are people supposed to do? How much are we supposed to take from them?

[drea28]

Hey all,
Just wanted to post an update regarding our situation
We made our second trial payment back on Feb. 19th. The gentleman who took our payment over the phone was very nice, and I asked him a couple of questions regarding documentation. He told me that we would need to send an updated hardship letter, paystubs, and financial worksheet as soon as our 3rd trial payment had been made. I asked him if we would receive some sort of letter or phone call letting us know that Wells needed these docs and he said NO - THAT THEY DO NOT SEND ANY KIND OF NOTIFICATION THAT THEY NEED THESE UPDATED DOCS. Maybe this is one of the reasons that so many people are being denied their permanant mods for the reason of incomplete paperwork? I know it is a flimsy excuse on their part, but I just wanted to put it out there for everybody, so they could make sure they send updated docs in, and give Wells one less excuse.
Anyway, I received a call on Friday from a woman named Cathy who asked me to send her a W2 for my work, because she wasn't sure how to calculate my income based on my paystub (I substitute teach and have variable income). She said she was working on our file and was getting ready to pass it on to the next department. At this point I have no idea what they are working on, unless it has to do with the permanant mod, but OK - I agreed to send the info. I didn't even bother to ask her how they had calculated my income the other 500 times we were being considered for a mod. I questioned her about the additional paperwork at the end or the trial period though - and she told me NO NEED TO SEND IT!!! That as long as they had paystubs/info that was dated within 30 days of the trial period offer, they would use that info and all would be fine. Just another example of conflicting info and misleading tactics by Wells.
I will be making my 3rd trial payment at the end of the week, and sending in updated financial info immediately afterwards, just to make sure all bases are covered. I will keep updating my story as things progress.
Hope this helps everybody.
Keep at it guys - don't give up hope!!!

[drea28]

Ok so here's the latest news...
I have been calling ASC daily for the past 2 weeks, getting status updates...I was told my mod is still in final review with the investor every day. Over the weekend I checked the assist website and it said there was an error retreiveing my status and all my completed steps said "Not completed". Of course I freaked out, but managed to make it through to today when the offices opened again. When I called this morning, I got a rep who seemed relatively new, and after making me hold my breath for about 10 minutes told me my mod had been APPROVED!!! YIPPEE BREAK OUT THE CHAMPAGNE!!!
Not so fast.... He couldn't tell me what the payments were, and of course, I called back a few minutes later to get another rep and ask for the mod info. When I asked her about confirming that my mod was final she said that it still needed to be finalized before the paperwork was sent, but yes it was approved. I got her to tell me the ESTIMATED payment and it was $400 higher than my trial mod! And the initialninterest rate went up from 2% to 2.5%. Of course me being me, I had to question it because nothing in our financials had changed. We went over our income and it looks like when they updated my info at the end of the trial, they used incorrect numbers for my income.
They said they need to go over the numbers again and it will have to go back to the investor for approval, but it should not take as long as it did the first time. I am heartbroken. Has this happened to anybody else??? Can anybody give me some insight or a timeline on how long it takes to get re-approved if they had your info wrong??? I have a call into the negotiator, but she has not called me back once since I first got her number 3 weeks ago - and I have left at least 5 messages. I am so hoping that it is just a matter of them re-running the numbers themselves, but I know by now that nothing with Wells is ever that easy....

[we're_still_reviewing]

drea,

So did you have to make a 4th payment ?

[drea28]

Stillhoping -
I have not made a 4th payment as of yet. My payments are due by the 1st, so I would/should make one by May 1st. When I questioned the rep yesterday, she told me NOT to make another payment becuase my approval was due to be mailed out, and she didn't want me to be put in the situation where I made a payment now, and another was due in a couple of weeks. Now with all this new drama with the incorrect income, and having no clue how long it will take them to get the mess straightened out, I'm not sure what to do. I spoke with another rep today, who went over all the numbers with me and they definitely have my income wrong. He emailed Cathy Florez - my negotiator, and asked her to re-look at the income, and I left ANOTHER message, but have heard nothing back to far. I am about ready to scream! At least have the courtesy to call and say - hey I got the message I am looking into it. The negotiator today told me that I was very lucky to have caught this now because if the papers were finalized and sent, that I would not be able to change anything-either accept the mod or no HAMP. Not sure if that is true, but if it is it really ****s!

[we're_still_reviewing]

Well it sounds like you just need to sit tight. I hope everything works out for you. Let us know when you get the perm. mod.

[drea28]

I have about had it by now...after what seems like 10,000 more calls to Wells over the past week, reps supposedly escalating my file, leaving messages for Cathy Florez my negotiator and her supervisor Steve Larkin, I still have not gotten any response from anyone. The assist websit now says my mod is finalized and we are on step 10 - agreement sent to borrower. I got so mad yesterday, that I called 3 more times trying to get someone to look at the file - but of course it is the weekend and everyone important is out. All of the reps I spoke to confirmed that the docs were printed but not sent, and the final payment on the docs is showing as $2494 - that's even more than they told me on Monday! and now almost $500 more than we can afford a month! I emailed all of the execs last night and am hoping that I will get a response from somebody tomorrow. Also, at 9 AM sharp I will be calling the Exec offices and any other number I can get my hands on. My next step is a letter to the comptroller of Currency, State officials, etc... I have started to come up with the theory that this was not an accident. I think they possibly misrepresented my income so that they would not have to do the principal forebearance that was past of my original trial plan, and not be subject to the new HAMP regs that will be implemented in a few months. The regs state my loan (or any other loan in a HAMP mod or trial period as of now) will have to be re-evaluated for a principal write-down (if your lender had to forbear principal to get you to 31% DTI) once the new regs take effect in the fall...Seems logical that they would not want to forbear if they may be forced to forgive some or all of it later....I will post the copy of the letter I sent to the Exec. offices in another post.
Any thoughts on how else I can get this taken care of?

[drea28]

Here is the email I sent to the Exec offices late last night...

Dear Wells Fargo Executives,
My name is xxxxxxx - Loan # xxxxxxxxx, serviced by ASC
I am writing this email in the desperate hope that somebody can help my husband and I with our loan. I have been trying to get an issue with our modification resolved, to no avail, after countless calls to loss mitigation, team leads, my loan processor, and her supervisor at Wells/ASC.
I recently finished payments on a 3 month HAMP trial plan after an exhausting 2 years of trying to get a loan modification that was affordable for us. Every month it becomes more and more difficult to achieve this goal, as the loan delinquency, legal fees, late fees, and escrow shortages continue to mount up. Needles to say we were ecstatic when we were finally approved for the HAMP trial after submitting our documents through a certified counselling agency and requesting foreclosure mediation through the State of NJ. Our trial payment was $2029.68, at a step-up rate beginning at 2%, a 40 yr. term, and $91,000 of principal being forbeared and repayed as a balloon at the end of the term. We also had an escrow shortage of approx $2000, which I was planning on paying before the mod was finalized.
After successfully completing the trial, I was called by my processor, Cathy Florez, requesting a W2 for my income, as I am a substitute teacher and it varies. I faxed it to her ASAP, along with updated pay stubs for both my husband and myself, an updated financial worksheet and hardship letter. As the final review continued I called Cathy several times to see if she needed anything further and check on the process of the final mod. She never responded. I also called loss mitigation every couple of days, and finally, last Monday they told me we had a tentative approval on the mod and should be receiving docs soon. I was thrilled!!! I asked for the payment/interest rate info and was told it was $2470.98 @ 2.425% initially for 5 years, a 37 yr. term, and no principal forbearance. Additionally, since there is no forbearance I will have an approx. $32,000 escrow shortage.
I questioned the increase in payment immediately, and began the process of reviewing the financial info that had been used to calculate the finalized payment. Apparently, my income was incorrectly calculated from my W2 or the YTD figure on my paystub, and entered incorrectly in the LMTN screen. I have gone through all the info and verified this with three different reps from loss mitigation. I have asked to have the issue escalated to Cathy Florez, team leads, Steve Larkin (Who I was told is Cathy's supervisor) and anyone else who could possibly help me. It has been a week, and nothing has been done. I have not gotten a response or return call, despite repeated requests through emails and voice messages. The one time I did manage to reach Cathy, I was disconnected after explaining the issue, and she never returned my calls or investigated the error further. She seemed reluctant to believe me, since the loan had gone to peer review and had passed. Instead, now the docs have been finalized and printed and I am about to receive a loan mod that is incorrect and NOT 31% of my gross income. I am a well-wducated woman who has a degree in Finance and an MBA. I worked for Cendant Mortgage (now PHH) for 10 years. PLEASE believe me when I tell you I can calculate a DTI ratio and am well-versed in the HAMP guidelines.
If someone would just look at the income that was used on the LMTN screen, and compare it to my W2 or pay stubs, you can immediately see the income is incorrect. My W2 lists $3,350 of income for last year. Averaged over 12 months that is $279 a month. If you use my 2 most recent pay stubs my gross is $225 for one month. If you average my YTD income from my last pay stub, you get even less - $64 a month ($225/3.5 months -stub YTD is from Jan. 1 to March 15th). The amount entered as my income was $1175.56 per month, which is over $900 a month more than I make!. No one can explain how they came up with that figure, but when it was entered, it entirely changed the terms of the mod, which if left unchanged, is now approx. 37% of our income, instead of the 31% guideline, and unaffordable to us.
I was desperately trying to have this error corrected before the docs were printed and sent out, but unless someone takes immediate action on this issue, that will not happen. I was informed yesterday, that the mod had been given final approval and the docs were printed, but not yet sent.
Please intervene and help me resolve this issue before the mod is sent out, and it becomes an even bigger problem. I desperately want to have my mod finalized and approved, and put the past 2 years of anxiety about this behind me. We have a follow-up mediation date scheduled in May and I very much wanted to be able to have a final mod in place and not have to continue with the court process. I am available by phone any time you may need to speak to me - either at home xxxxxxx or on my cell xxxxxxxx. If someone who has the authority to review the file and make the changes would call me, I'm sure we could rectify the matter much more quickly.
I am sorry that I had to bother you with this request, and I know that this is not a matter of major importance and urgency to most people at Wells, but it is to me, as I want to save my home. I am hopeful that someone will finally respond to me and see that this matter is taken care of as soon as possible.
Thank You so much for reading my email and story,

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

So what do you think???? Anything else I should have said????

[drea28]

Just got a call from Vera in the Executive office - they have sent our file to be reviewed by an executive negotiator and should have an answer as to whether or not the income was calculated wrong by Friday. I hate that they say things like that. I KNOW the income was calculated wrong. There is NO "IF". It's simple math. When the paystub says $150 for 2 weeks...that does NOT add up to $1400 a month!
She said that she is my main point of contact now, and I won't be able to speak to the negotiator handling my file. I am worried that something will go wrong again, but fortunately it isn't my last chance to protest. I contacted my housing counsellor and updated her on what had been happening. She just filed a complaint with the HAMP escalations government office. She told me she has them working on a couple other cases for her and that they are holding lenders accountable to HAMP guidelines. Plus we have a mediation date coming up in May, so that should give me a chance to fight too!!!

[drea28]

Quick update - Despite my pleadings for Wells to hold off sending out our final mod docs because of the incorrect income, they came Friday via UPS. The payment and terms were way off and I called Sara form the Exec. office right away. She got back to me yesterday and said not to worry about it, that my file was with a senior negotiator and that the new income calcs had just been emailed to her. They now have my husband at $6500 a month gross and me at $248 a month for a total of $6748. I told her that those numbers were correct and our mod should now come out much closer to the trial figures and not what is on the final docs they sent us. She said that the negotiator would have to re-run all the numbers, and she would call as soon as she received the new terms. I reminded her that we have a mediation date set for Monday, and though I would love to cancel it and save everybody the time and money, we would be proceeding unless I had the new correct paperwork in hand. Didn't seem to make much difference though. She just said she would email the negotiator and note that. I am anxiously waiting to learn what they re-calc the terms as. Will update when I hear something.

[Maurice Bedard]

I don't think you will ever get Wells Fargo to admit or correct a mistake. I got the same type of responses- no return calls, hang ups, etc when i tried to explain how they erred in my modification. They don't give you anything to really work with, just promises that they will see it through with you, and promise they will return your calls. Even if they understand what went wrong, once you hang up, they must sit and laugh.
I strongly suggest you take it to the OCC. They have my case with Wells Fargo, and supposedly, a pattern of wrongdoing means more than one case. You could also try 888hope now, escalations, and try hmp_compliance.com or hmpadmin.com escalations. There is also the treasury official whose name is on the last page of the directives, if you can find a contact. the names I have are marianne sullivan and Michael A. Quinn

[drea28]

Thanks ******. My housing counsellor from the Hope Now hotline already submitted a complaint with Hamp escalations. She said she has had luck with them and they are holdng Wells accountable. I am just waiting to see what Wells comes back with and what is said when we go to mediation. If it is not accurate or they try to deny the final mod, I will let my state appointed attorney and Hope Now counsellor file whatever complaints we possibly can. This has been dragging on for 30 months now and I just want it done!!! I so wish I could sue them for intentionally dragging this out and intentionally causing me to accumulate over $100,000 of arrears due to their modification denials, stalling tactics, and negligent behavior!!!

[Maurice Bedard]

How did you get a state appointed attorney? All the state out here will do is refer you to counselling. And if you earn over poverty income, you even have to pay for that.

[drea28]

Once you file for foreclosure mediation with the state of NJ, you are assigned a housing counsellor who submits all of the paperwork and documentation to the court for a mediation date, as well as to your mortgage company so they can start the modification process. At that time, the counsellor refers you to an attorney who has volunteered to help mediation clients. You call them and discuss your reasons for modification, and they go over your rights and ask questions to determine if there has been any possible TIL violations. The counsellor also submits a QWR to the mortgage company if any docs are missing or in question, and if you have a sale date, has it postponed either through the mortgage company's attorney or the court, if necessary. If the mortgage company has not modified your loan by the mediation date, or otherwise come to a resolution with you and the counsellor, you go to mediation with your counsellor and the attorney for the bank. Since the bank is represented by an attorney, your volunteer/appointed attorney represents you at mediation. While he does not provide legal services outside of medaition, he does answer any and all questions he can regarding my loan, possible lawsuits, legal recourse, etc... If I were to want to file a lawsuit, he cannot do it for me, but will refer me to someone who will. I think god every day for this mediation program. It postponed my sale date, and got me a trial HAMP mod, and are now hopefully in the last stages. We do have a follow-up mediation date for Monday, so I am anxious to see what kind of pressure gets put on Wells to finish this up!

[Maurice Bedard]

Good deal for New Jerseyians! Oregon sends you to a housing counselor who tells you you spend too much, and then gives you a list of low cost food pantries that actually cost more than I already spend. You don't get mediation, you get a "face-to-face" meeting with the lender, I guesss so you can more easily hand over your keys. I was told to cut my utilities- I use $4 worth of water a month, and only heat the living room/kitchen/dining area. No cable or satellite, cell phone I need for work, and I never eat out. Yet they tell me to cut expenses while the banks ignore modification rules set by the treasury dept. What a country!!!!!

[drea28]

Hi all,
On Friday I received a call from Sara in the exec office saying that as of 4 PM Thursday, they were waiting on updated attny fees to re-run my final mod numbers using the corrected income info. I called her this morning and got voicemail, but left a message saying we would be going to our mediation appt. at 1:30 PM, and wanted to know if there were any updates.
We went to medaition this afternoon, and the attny from Wells went over the permanant mod offer that Wells had sent us that used the incorrect income figures. He also looked over our paystubs and excused himself to call Wells and see what had happened. He came back 20 minutes later, and announced that I was absolutely CORRECT and that the income for me had been grossly miscalculated and he had no explanation how. He told us that a new final mod was being calculated using the correct figures and we should have the docs by no later than June 1st. In the event we did not have the docs, we were to make the trial period pymt by June 1st, and we scheduled a continuance mediation date for June 1 as well.
And now for the Irony....
No more than an hour passes and my cell phone rings.... It's Sara from the exec office. She tells me that she realizes we have probably already had our mediation, but wants to know if the attny was able to get our new figures and tell us. I told her no, that we hadn't gotten anything but a promise that numbers were being calculated. She told me that she just got an email with figures and wasnt sure if the attny had been given them earlier, but she wanted to call me immediately in case we hadn't been told yet. The terms are 2% for 5 years, then stepping up 1% per yr. until it caps at 5%. 480 month term, and P&I pymt. of $1173.86. Total with taxes & insurance is $2091.77. She did not have the full docs showing the forbearance amount, but said she would request them and call back as soon as she could give me the info. Also told me that I should have the papers in 1 or 2 days. The irony is that this is the exact same thing that happened at the last mediation...No info at the mediation session, a continuance date is scheduled, then docs on my doorstep a day later lol...
I have to say I am very happy with the news, and encouraged by the lawyers attitude and willingness to correct things and get them taken care of when we were at mediation today. I will post as a success and let everybody know when I have final docs in hand!!!!!!! I did give in and pop the champagne tonight though lol!!!

[Maurice Bedard]

Drea-
Do you have a last name for sara? I have tried to figure out why they say I needed forbearance and can only come up with the idea that they used wrong income figures. I am self employed, and have some write-offs so my tax return show a lot less income than I really have. It is all legal, but it would explain the screw up. The profit and loss statement I sent has all the correct income and cash flow from my work.

[drea28]

I believe Sara's last name is Westmoreland. She says it on the voicemail, but it's a bit hard to understand. After I emailed all the execs at Wells, she is the one they assigned to oversee my complaint. She seems very efficient, and always calls me back within a day of my calling. On the other hand, I had called the exec office about a year ago, because I had repeatedly requsted HAMP paperwork and to be considered for the program and was not getting anywhere. The rep I got then was Suzy Young. She was OK, but did nothing for me. Gave me the run-around when I asked questions about my investor participating, etc... Got more annoyed with me the more questions I asked and when I demanded answers as to why I was not being sent HAMP paperwork or being considered. In the end, she told me there was nothing that they could offer me. Not even an in-house mod because they couldn't reduce my rate lower than 5.250%. It was then that I called the NJ foreclosure mediation hotline and started that ball rolling. Thank God I did and did not give up. Karen (our counsellor from the housing program) submitted HAMP docs for us even though they had repeatedly told me our investor did not participate, and we ended up getting a trial, and now - hopefully - a final mod!!! It just goes to show that persistance and an unwillingness to take no for an answer is the key. Don't give up and exhaust EVERY avenue you can!

[drea28]

Just another peice of our long, eternally drawn out ordeal with Wells.... We did receive final mod paerwork via FedEx last week. To my suprise - although considering the huge amount of mistakes, one after another throughout this whole process, it shouldn't have been...They were the WRONG docs!!! They were copies..not originals even mind you, but made on a standard copier copies - of the incorrect docs we got 2 weeks ago. SIGH. I ofcourse called the Exec office and left an email of Sarah. She responded the next day, leaving me a message and saying she was "appauled" at the docs dept. and their inefficency, and had sent a request to have the New correct docs sent ASAP. Gave me a new tracking # , and said to let her know if I didn't get them by Friday. When I track the docs it says they are to be delivered tomorrow. We will see what we get this time...With our luck, they will be the in-house mod docs from a year ago...or better yet, someone elses's loan docs entirely...

[drea28]

Just wanted to share - the docs we got on Monday were incorrect again - this time copies of the original trial agreement... Made the usual round of calls to the exec office...Sarah had me fax her all the incorrect docs I had received so she could complain to the doc department. Tuesday we received one copy (from a copier and without official HAMP cover-letters etc...) of the CORRECT docs via fed-ex!!!! We are scheduled fopr mediation again on June 1st, so I rushed around to have the doc notarized and all...Only to get 2 "official" copies last night - complete with sign here and notarize here labels and the HAMP logo coversheets lol... Terms are as promised...
2% years 1-5
3% year 6
4% year 7
5% years 8-40
P& I = $1173.86 plus $918 in escrow for a total pymt of $2091.77
$71,400 in principal forbearance due at tend of loan term
1st pymt. due June 1st - our housing counsellor is fighting this though as she says it is not reasonable to expect that of us considering all of the delays due to incorrect paperwork being sent several times. We are prepared to pay, but hope they agree to July 1st.
I am so happy to finally see this nightmare coming to an end. I will let eveyone know if anything changes with medaition and how the 1st payment process goes. I thinkwe can be moved to successes now!!!! HOORAY!!!
Keep fighting everyone - If I can get a mod after fighting for 30 months so can you!

[CCC20]

Drea28, If you are still watching this thread, I am so happy for you. In all this 'doom and gloom', it is so good to read about success. You got a very good mod. If you don't mind me asking and if you know, who was/is your investor?

We have an ASC loan and were also told that we couldn't qualify for HAMP because our investor did not participate.

thanks and congratulations!

CC

[drea28]

CC - Thanks for the well wishes. Our investor was Deutsche Bank in trust for HASCO corp. The only way I found this out was because they were listed as the plaintiff on the foreclosure proceeding docs. Once I found that out, I started googling them, and found every bit of info I could about the companies. I also found out about the Wells CTS link from other posters on this site. I registered, and found my loan pool that ASC is servicing for HASCO. I was able to see all the other mods being done to loans in my pool and used that info to fight when they told me there was nothing they could do for me. In fact, when we went to mediation, I had printed off several sheets worth of mods, highlighted the ones that were at 2%, principal forbearance, etc... and presented them to the Wells attny and asked why I could not be offered a deal like that. We did get our HAMP trial the next day, so I don't think it made a difference in the end, but at least I was prepared! I impressed the heck out of the Wells attny, and let them know I was not going to be duped into believing the lies that I was being fed. They knew I was going to fight all the way for my home and a decent mod. I hope this helps you! If you have any more questions, just let me know!

[Jim007]

drea28....I also live in NJ...I would be interested to know the steps you have taken to get into this forclosure mediation process...not in forclosure yet still trying for a mod....Thx in advance for any info you could give me..