Home Loans and Support

USBANK gave me a 2nd HAMP and then sent me to FORECLOSURE - HELP

Discussion in 'Stop Foreclosure and Tell Us Your Story' started by 9Lives, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. 9Lives

    9Lives LoanSafe Member

    I would like to start by saying that I will do just about anything to keep my family in our home. I will educate myself as best as I can and fight tooth and nail to make USBANK admit their mistake and make it right. I also apologize for such a long post... but it's a long and messy story.

    Home purchased 5-2006
    USBANK loan $262,158
    7.45% apr

    In July of 2009 we applied for a HAMP with USBANK because my husband's income was significantly lowered and I lost my job. We were approved due to financial hardship and made 4 trial period payments.

    Loan after HAMP
    $267,418.29
    Principal & Interest 1522.05
    apr 5.375%
    Escrow $839.26
    Total new payment: $2,361.31
    1st payment was made on 3-1-2010

    *The bank showed an escrow shortage of $4,192.31. When I questioned how this could be, they could not give me an answer. I made a mistake by letting this go.

    Our payment decreased to $2361.31 on 01-01-10 due to our property taxes being lowered.

    We began struggling to make mortgage payments in August 2010, but NEVER were late over 30 days.

    USBANK began sending us letters stating we may qualify for a HAMP. I called the HOPE Hotline and they were no help. The counselor said to call our bank and see if we could qualify for another HAMP since the first one only lowered our payment by $108

    On October 10, 2010 we called USBANK to see what we could do to get our mortgage lowered. They stated that we could apply for a HAMP again! Said is was okay because it was over 6 months since the last one and our payment was not reduced enough. Mistake #2, I trusted USBANK. UGH!

    Between Oct 10th and December 22nd - we went through the application process, faxed and mailed the million papers they required, and were approved for a 2nd HAMP.

    New HAMP
    Our Gross Income $5800
    3 trial payments of $2011.79 due on 1-1-11, 2-1-11, 3-1-11

    On December 27th we received a default letter and immediately called the bank. The rep told me to disregard the letter, it was sent by mistake, I am active in the HAMP trial period, do not make a payment until January. Yes, this call is documented in their notes, everytime I call, I check that it's still there :)

    January 7, 2011 USBANK accepts our first trial payment by phone.

    January 12, 2011 - I received a phone msg to call USBANK. I assume it's about the HAMP, a just "checking in" kinda call and when I call back the rep checks the account notes and says "Oh, you were being called to be notified that your account is being sent to foreclosure tomorrow. Can you make a payment today of $7,527.50?" WHAT?!?!?!?! Are you kidding me??? I almost passed out! Pulled myself together and explained that there's some kind of mistake. I rehash the timeline of events and the girl says "You can't have a HAMP a second time." She made it sound like I magically set myself with a HAMP. Hello? I have paperwork from THEM. She simply says "Sorry".

    Ok... so since the 12th, I have been calling USBANK upwards of 12 times per day. I leave messages with our alledged loan processor, our alledged foreclosure processor, supervisors, etc. I have kept meticulous notes all the way as I suspect I will need them.

    My investor is Freddie Mac and I have left messages with their Borrower Outreach Program, I have talked to the HOPE Hotline again (they were no help, again), I have filled out a complaint form with the Illinois State's Attorney General, and I am currently waiting to speak with a counselor with our local HUD agency. I did speak with a rep at the HAMP Compliance Solutions Center and she thought the story was very fishy. She suggested I call the hud people to in turn, call them back to open a case and investigate. I am on a mission to get USBANK at this point!

    Today, I finally call US Bancorp directly at the number I believe MENACE posted (615) 466-3000. I almost fell off my chair when a real person answered. I explained my situation and my need for help... she transferred me to a "Holly". Did the same thing with Holly and she was very sympathetic. She said that she would give my information to Management in the Loss Mitigation Dept. and have someone call me. She even gave me her direct number to call her back on Monday if I didn't receive a callback today (which I didn't)

    I received a "Mortgage Arrearage" letter from Codilis & Assoc on behalf of USBANK. They are telling me I have 30 days to contest the debt they are trying to collect, which is now $272,816.93

    I need advice on where to go from here. There is no way I have done everything I can and like I said, I'm ready to fight to keep my home. I would very much appreciate any advice or direction anyone can give me. I feel like I'm starting to get tired, and the last thing I want to do is lose momentum!

    Thank you SO much
  2. 9Lives

    9Lives LoanSafe Member

    I need to also add that we were served foreclosure papers last night, right after I posted my story, from our county court house. The server informed us that our court date would be 6 months from now.

    I am now very scared because USBank told me just yesterday that they would not move forward with the foreclosure until they had determined if we qualified for a loan modification. As of yesterday... they told me my account was still active and they were still considering a loan modification. I think I need a lawyer at this point.
  3. motorcitymadness

    motorcitymadness LoanSafe Member

    9 Lives,
    How far behind are you? Have you made any payments recently? You may want to scrap the 2nd Hamp at this point and just try to work out a payment plan. At this point I would just try to get back on track and worry about the 2nd Hamp when your not stressed with the possibility of foreclosure. Trying to fignt the 2nd Hamp may prove futile and hurt you even more in the long run. First things first. Find out what you have to do to try and get current. Any additional information you can provide will help in developing a game plan. I too have US Bank and have done a successful Hamp Mod and know the challenges and hurdles you need to go through.

    Thanks,
    Motor
  4. motorcitymadness

    motorcitymadness LoanSafe Member

    9 Lives,
    Feel free to private message me if you would like.
  5. 9Lives

    9Lives LoanSafe Member

    Hi Motor,

    Thank you for your advice. The offering and setting up of a 2nd HAMP was a mistake made by USBank. We were told on January 12th that unless we paid them over $7,000 by the 13th... there was no way to keep the home from being sent to the foreclosure dept. We are considered now to be 4 months behind even though we made a payment to them on January 7th in the agreed, trial payment period amount of $2,011.79 The bank has informed us that the payment was never applied and instead placed in a suspense account. We have also been told to not make any payments to the bank anymore. They told us that if we send them a payment for ANY amount... they will return it.

    So we're not trying to fight to get a second hamp... we are trying to fight the fact that USBank gave us a 2nd hamp (which they can't per HAMP guidelines), which in turn put us 4 months behind on payments, and they then put us into foreclosure because of THEIR mistake. All I want to do is stay in my home and get them to fix their mistake.

    Thanks again,

    9Live
  6. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    I didn't supply that number. But you are allowed only one HAMP mod per lifetime, so I don't know know how or who screwed up. Are you 100% sure that the first mod was a HAMP mod? If so, the paperwork should have said something about 'part 2 of a 2 step process' and had info about an annual incentive payment. Your income must have been around $7500 at the time. With $5800 income, your trial payment should have been around $1800.

    I think you need to get in touch with a HUD counselor, who in turn can get in touch with HAMP escalations at 866-939-4469, option 2, and your counselor may be able to get them to look into this. If the first mod was a HAMP, the servicer screwed up by offering you another HAMP trial. If not, then they screwed up by making the trial payments too high. It is standard for HAMP to require that a counselor escalate your case, in most circumstances.

    And the amount they are asking for almost certainly includes the escrow shortage. The shortage came from your first trial, and any missed payments. Even if the trial gives you a lower payment, any shortage is still owed, especially to escrow. They could have added the shortage to the loan balance if state laws allow it, but most people are paying the escrow shortage as part of their new escrow payment. I can't tell what they did with your loan, but that amount is not your real problem.
  7. motorcitymadness

    motorcitymadness LoanSafe Member

    I understand. I would stay the course your on. Keep fighting them. Contact the attorney that sent you the 30 day notice to dispute. Tell them that US Bank made the mistake and if you have to you will bring all documentation to court and fight them there. Perhaps they can persuade the the bank to work out a payment arrangement. No matter, you have to keep fighting every avenue you can go down until they work with you. You should not lose your home over their mistake nor do I think you will if you really fight them. Stay persistant and do not give up!! You may be getting tired but it's your home and it's well worth the fight. I would suggest as a last resort to contact an attorney and explain the situation and they may take your case simply because they may smell a large law suit. Just some thoughts and I wish you all the luck in the world his gets resovled.

    Sincerely,
    Motor
  8. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    My reply crossed your last post. Sorry. But if you have $2000 in unapplied payments, and a $4000 escrow shortage, and they say you need to come up with $7000, what is the other $5000 shortage? Did you make no payments between Aug and Jan?

    The letter says you owe $272k, including the escrow shortage? And the loan after HAMP was $267k? and you have $2k in unapplied funds? Sounds like you are really only $3000 behind.
  9. 9Lives

    9Lives LoanSafe Member

    Thank you SO much Menace and Motor!

    Menace ~ I do sincerely apologize for stating that it was you who posted that phone number.
    I am 100% sure the first modification was a HAMP. I have all paperwork to prove it. We fully understood the incentives it held which is why we did everything in our power to keep under 30 days late.
    Our income has always been right around the $5800 mark. I also agree that our HAMP should have resulted in a total payment of around $1,800. USBank argued that HAMP does not allow them to include escrow and so with our escrow being $839... our total payment came to what you see above. I knew they were wrong!!! :)
    And thank you for explaining the escrow shortage, it's what I assumed happened but when they couldn't explain it, I questioned myself. I admit... this has been a learning process.
    I have been in touch with the counselor that HOPE hooked us up with - they told me they can't help me.
    I spoke to a lady at the HAMP Compliance Solutions Center and she agreed that they did something wrong. She told me to find a new counselor to have them escalate the problem. I have let voicemails and am still waiting for a return call. On Monday, I am going to start calling counselors that are not in my area.
    And finally... the escrow shortage... it is my understanding that they rolled the shortage into our regular escrow payment.

    Motor ~
    Thank you for the encouragement to go on. Being served papers last night almost made me throw in the towel. I do believe USBank made a huge error and intend to start seeking legal counsel on Monday. I'm getting scared that I can no longer deal with this on my own.

    Thank you both so much for your advice... I will continue my fight!

    9Lives
  10. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    HAMP compliance should have kicked back your original mod. I think you should be able to appeal to HAMP based on the first mod being wrong. The 31% is required to include the escrow amount. I think that if you tell HAMP that you already tried working through HOPE, if they escalated your case through their(HOPE's) system, they(HAMP) may be able to directly intervene. That is what HAMP escalations told me. They also said that if you had a foreclosure sale date, they could step in immediately. That was in late July/early August. They may have changed procedures by now.

    But I think it might be better to escalate based on the original HAMP mod being out of compliance, than confusing the issue with 2 mods, but HAMP rep should be able to say which would be easier. Maybe you can post another thread asking for anyone who knows of a HUD counselor who understands HAMP.
  11. 9Lives

    9Lives LoanSafe Member

    Ok... I hope I am answering this correctly...
    In 12-09 our principal amount was 267,418
    1st hamp finalized 02-10 and showed the escrow shortage of $4,192
    USBank stated that by reducing our apr, the principal and interest would be lowered to $1522 per month and that in "complying" with HAMP guidelines, that was 31% of our gross income. They said the reason the final payment increases to $2361 is because they then need to add on the $839 monthly to cover escrow and the escrow shortage. I was told time and time again that the 31% did not include anything regarding escrow.

    When USBank called to tell me I was going to the foreclosure department, I must admit I was in shock and did not ask that person as many questions as I should have. Little did I know that I would pretty much never speak to anyone at the bank again. I asked her what I could do to save our home and get it out of foreclosure and she stated:
    "You currently owe us $12,172.22 in payments and fees. You need to make a payment by tomorrow that will get you within being 2 months behind." 2 mortgage payments = $4650 $12,172.22 - $4650= $7,522.22 Being that I had less than 24 hours to come up with the money... I couldn't swing that.

    Payments were kept up with until October and we never once hit the "late more than 30 days" mark. Again, we fully understood the rules of the first hamp.

    As far as the letter from USBank's lawyer stating we owe $272k, I received the letter after business hours yesterday and was unable to call their office. I'm going to assume that they are going to tell me that I also owe a bunch of fees that got me to that total.

    Our payment history is as follows:
    August: paid
    Sept: no payment made but we did not fall more that 29 days late
    Oct: paid
    Nov: told not to make a payment because we were being approved for HAMP
    Dec: told not to make a payment because we were being approved for HAMP
    January: made a payment of $2011 (what was outlined in our 2nd HAMP trial period paperwork) This payment is sitting in a suspense account and was not applied to our loan

    And finally yes... they took and cashed our 1st trial period payment on January 7th. When they called about the foreclosure I said "well I guess you'll be cutting a check back to me for that amount then?" I was told that the $2,011 was placed in a suspense fund and they would use it to cover the costs of a foreclosure or toward a regular modification should I be accepted for one.

    Hope this helps,

    9Lives
  12. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    It is about what I guessed- only missing payments, now three payments, plus the escrow shortage. I don't think you should have to pay the escrow shortage to bring the rest of your account current.

    If your mod had been done correctly the first time, you would already have paid enough extra to be current. You need to get the payment corrected on your first mod, and get all the back payments since reapplied correctly.You were paying an extra $500 a month for ten months. That should be just about enough to pay the three months you missed, plus a little extra. HAMP compliance has an email- I think it is compliance@hmpadmin.com Explain to them that the original mod did not meet HAMP terms, and the servicer refuses to correct it to bring it into compliance with HAMP standards of 31% of your income for PITI. The escrow shortage they can add in, but they need to spread it out over 60 months. Running a few rough numbers- you should still qualify pretty easily, at a rate of 2% instead of 5%. Since you have a freddie mac loan, the 2% is not a problem. Even your final rate will be lower than you have now.

    Since HAMP compliance is run by freddie mac, make sure to stress that it is a freddie mac loan when you call.
  13. 9Lives

    9Lives LoanSafe Member

    Thank you SO very, very much Menace! I was beginning to think I was the one that was wrong. I am going to shoot an email out to HAMP compliance immediately.

    ~ 9Lives
  14. 9Lives

    9Lives LoanSafe Member

    compliance@hmpadmin.com did not work.

    However, by searching online and being directed to previous forum posts, I got 2 helpful addresses:
    mha_compliance@mhacompliance.com and borrower_outreach@freddiemac.com

    ~ 9Lives
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  15. 9Lives

    9Lives LoanSafe Member

    Update

    I thought I would update my post with today's events. A couple steps forward... and then a couple more to get me right back where I started. Again... all advice is welcome and very much appreciated as I feel I'm nearing my breaking point.

    8am - I called USBANK to specifically ask if my loan was still actively being considered for an in house modification. They answered yes. I then ask why I was served foreclosure papers because I have been told several times that my loan would just "sit on the back burner in the foreclosure dept until it was deemed I wasn't eligible for a mod". She stated that the bank will go forward with all foreclosure proceedings. They cannot give me a sale date until it's decided they won't give me a mod.... okay. Finally, someone told the truth!
    She then offered to transfer me to the foreclosure processor handling the account. I have left this woman countless messages so I get a little ticked off when they offer to transfer me. So, I told the rep that she was more than welcome to transfer me, but I have left the processor plenty of messages and she doesn't return my calls. Told her that because of USBANK's lack of communication, I have had to seek help from outside sources such as HAMP Compliance. With this, she says she will physically go and get the processor (yeah right) and put me on hold.
    She then came back on the phone and said "because you have opened up a legal case against us, you must contact out lawyer. We can no longer accept calls from you."

    WHAT?!?!?!?! and that's exactly what I said to her. "What are you talking about? I haven't open a case anywhere against you and I don't even have a lawyer." She stated that I told her I opened a case with HAMP Compliance. I then explained, as if I was talking to a child because I wanted to make it very clear what was said, that I had no legal representation, I have not opened a case with HAMP Compliance, etc. That it was USBank that had filed suit against me. Then I ask if I can talk to someone now.

    She told me "No. Only our lawyer will talk to you. I suspect that's why no one is returning your calls." Makes NO sense whatsoever. I've been calling daily since January 13th and today was the first time I ever mentioned the words HAMP Compliance... UGH.

    8:30 I decided to play the game and call HOPE hotline... again. They connect me to a rep with MMI (our counseling agency) I email a complete timeline of events to him, go through a million questions and he speaks to his supervisor. MMI Rep and myself try to do a 3 way with the bank to find out what's going on. The bank refuses to talk to us. MMI suggests calling Hope hotline once again and tell them I need to be connected to MHA Escalations.

    11:00am My situation is reviewed by a rep at MHA Escalations. She cannot figure out why the bank won't take my calls if they are really still reviewing me for a loan mod. She explained that I could not be approved for a 2nd HAMP (no kidding) and didn't seem worried that by USBANK offering me a 2nd HAMP... my loan went into default and now foreclosure. We then try a 3 way with USBANK. First rep to answer at the bank tells us they can't talk to us and we need to call the lawyer. This rep then tells us that the status of my loan currently show that I am in review for a HAMP. INSANITY!!!!! She explains that there is a call block on my account because someone has filed a lawsuit against the bank. She cannot tell us who and decides to be kind enough to transfer us to the foreclosure dept "they'll be able to help you"

    11:45 Rep in foreclosure dept says the notes on the account state that I called in this morning and told USBANK that I have a lawyer and have an active lawsuit against USBANK. I almost passed out at hearing this. Told the rep to immediately make a note that I never stated that, never had any intention to do that and that the rep who noted that must have misunderstood that. This Rep in the foreclosure dept goes on to say that yes, I'm still be considered for other work out options but there are no notes saying what those options are. She offers to transfer us to the processor handling the account. And then, what a surprise, it goes to voicemail. Msg left....

    USBank hangs up and I'm on the phone with MHA Escalations now. This rep tells me that all I can do now is call into USBank once per week to check on the status of the loan. I told her that I will not sit here and wait to hear from then. So she suggests calling a hud approved counselor to discuss in house options and a household budget. Unbelievable! Ummmmm... it was my "hud approved counselor who connected me to you!" I asked her about looking into the fact that my first hamp done in 2010 was incorrect. She said that because we defaulted on the HAMP there was no way to go back and fix it. She stated that basically, the only way to save my home was to sit and wait for USBank to contact me and hope they offer me some kind of in house mod.

    This is getting scarier and more ridiculous by the day and I cannot and will not just sit and wait.

    So now I need to ask... is it time to get a lawyer? I still need to answer the summons and dispute it but I'm not 100% comfortable with doing that without legal counsel.

    Confused and Worried
    ~9Lives
  16. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    If you are calling HOPE, you are dealing with HOPE's escalations dept. You need your counselor to call HAMP escalations, and tellthem you already went all the way through HOPEs system with unsatisfactory results. The first mod did not comply with HAMP requirements, and they either need to make it comply, or not count it as defaulted. Either of those 2 emails should be more helpful than HOPE. As far as I am concerned, they are only good for using to make 3 way call, and takes notes. HAMP escalations is different than escalating through HOPE. Try calling yourself first- 866-939-4469, option 2.

    If your mod had been done right, you would not be 'defaulted.' Someone else made a contact at escalations who was very helpful named Norris. Search that name, I think it may be the same person who helped me. His last name was in the post. You might try asking specifically for him if you try calling that number.
  17. 9Lives

    9Lives LoanSafe Member

    Got a call back today

    So I miraculously got a call from USBank this morning. A gentleman by the name of Nick called and said he was calling in response to the letter I sent to USBancorp on Saturday. He told me the following:

    • My loan was being considered for an in house modification and that if I'm approved, the negotiator will call me in about a week.
    • This modification will most be at least the same mortgage payment or higher (UGH) than the $2361 we were paying.
    • Told me Freddie Mac will not go lower that the 5.375% apr we have. All they will do is roll the 5 default payments (of which there are only 4 as far as I'm concerned because the idiots accepted a trial payment for $2,011 from us on 1-7) onto the back of the loan.
    • He admitted that "they" made a mistake and should not of offered us a second hamp... but still, like many others, placed the blame on me.
    • He scolded me for falling 5 months behind on payments. To which I replied "USBank told us over and over again not too worry about the payments... we were on track for a HAMP." He thought I was lying and I shut him up by telling him to check the account notes that specifically include reps telling me not to make a payment. His reply was simply "the were misinformed".

    As far as our first HAMP being incorrectly done. I went round and round with him on this. He finally stated that we reported a gross income of $7,000 which means USBank did it right. Ok... we started that 2010 HAMP in July of 2009 and it wasn't finalized until February 2010. During that time, my husband lost overtime pay and I lost income as well. Gee... I assumed they made adjustments when your income changes due to the 972 times they told us to fax paycheck stubs and profit/loss statements over.

    So here I sit... wondering if I should keep fighting about that first hamp being done incorrectly due to a change of income during the process. Or do I sit back and wait to hear from USBank? Nick did say that there is a chance that the investor will turn us down because we just had a mod (the HAMP completed in 2-10). I swear I've aged 20 years during the last 2 weeks with USBank :((

    ~ 9Lives
    2 mad 2 give up
  18. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    They are required to verify income, so it doesn't really matter what you reported. Were they able to verify $7000 income when you first applied? There is no requirement under HAMP for them to update your info. Any updates are usually requested for inhouse mod documentation.

    I would still try HAMP escalations instead of escalating through HOPE. Hope doesn't even do those kind of technical issues. I don't even think HOPE has the HAMP handbook available.


    Quote "So here I sit... wondering if I should keep fighting about that first hamp being done incorrectly due to a change of income during the process. Or do I sit back and wait to hear from USBank?"


    Do both. Talk with HAMP while you are waiting.
  19. 9Lives

    9Lives LoanSafe Member

    Ok... so I talked to my husband only to find out that yes, our income could have been $7,000 at the time of the HAMP due to his overtime (and yep, they verified it) So now, I'm not too happy because I was literally the boy who cried wolf, arguing with everyone that my HAMP was wrong because our income was $5800. :(((((

    The man I spoke to this morning walked me through the numbers and I've run them again and it does appear that the first HAMP was correct:
    Our gross income was $7,000 - 31% of that is 2170
    Our P&I was set at 1522
    Escrow was 839 - 170 for what is paid to PMI = 669
    and they set our HAMP mod mortgage payment at 2361.00 so now I look like a jackass :(

    I called the Complaint Coordinator from USBank (Nick) back today because he stated that I am 5 payments behind. Tried to argue that we did make a payment in January, but because it wasn't the full amount (it was the trial period amount for the bogus 2nd hamp they set up) they won't count it and that even though they won't accept a February payment from us at this time, nor is it due until the 15th of Feb., they're counting that as well.

    So I stressed to Nick that it is VERY important the investor know that I am behind "5 payments" because I had good faith in USBank and allowed them to set us up with a 2nd hamp. I also want the investor to be aware that it is noted on the account that USBank employees told us NOT to make payments. Nick said "all the investors will look at is the numbers." Fabulous... that really doesn't give me much hope. He said that if Freddie Mac has questions, they will contact me. So all I can hope for at this point is that we pass the NPV with flying colors or that they question what the hell happened. Honestly... I want them to question me... I look forward to telling them how ignorant USBank has been.

    So my question now is this... because it now appears that they did that first HAMP correctly... there is no need to contact HAMP Compliance is there? I guess my next course of action is to report USBank's bad faith to someone else somewhere. I have the paperwork to file a complaint with the Attorney General already.

    ~ 9Lives
  20. goodrich4bk

    goodrich4bk LoanSafe Member

    I wish you luck in resolving your dispute with US Bank. But next time you go to the polls, remember that Chuck Schumer in 2008 proposed that Chapter 13 debtors be allowed to "refi" their underwater mortgages with a new loan for the present value of their home and an unsecured deficiency claim for the underwater part of the loan (on which the banks could be paid little or nothing). This was called "cramdown" and it has always been available to Chapter 11 businesses. In other words, a business can cramdown its banks to the value of the banks collateral, but homeowners cannot. Schumer tried to give homeowners the exact same rights as businesses but not a single Republican would support his bill and it failed.

    In my humble opinon, had cramdown become law in 2008, the mortgage crisis would be over. You would have a mortgage written down to the fair value of your home and the difference would be discharged. You would be able to afford your payments even with a reasonable interest rate on the new loan. The bondholders who were stupid and careless enough to make the loan to you at the peak of a bubble of historic proportions would lose much of their loan. But because over half of these "investors" are foreigners, such losses would have little impact on US consumers.

    Yes, cramdown would raise interest rates on new loans because lenders would face the risk of such cramdowns in the future. But the evidence is that the increase would be less than .5%. More likely, lenders would just get a lot more careful about the loans they make, something that should have happened a long time ago.

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