Home Loans and Support

Turned Down for HAMP.... What to do?

Discussion in 'Making Home Affordable' started by jamin415, Dec 9, 2009.

  1. jamin415

    jamin415 LoanSafe Member

    Hi
    I just found out today that i was turned down for the HAMP through WAMU / chase after making 6 trial payments. They say Debt to income was the reason. hmmm why do you think I needed the mod in the first place?

    They say my only option is to reapply, refi (obviously is not a choice) or short sell. I am reapplying for the mod and I dont want this to be a stupid question but do I still continue to make my payments? Anything could happen. They could schedule a sale date next week and I sent the payment this week right? Also, if this is over 12-31 whats the point and do I have an option for an in house modification? They did not give me this as an option when i spoke to them on the phone as I didnt think to ask.

    I think its complete BS. If you pre approve someone for a trial based on the information provided how do you not get approved? My income is the same as when you pre approved me.

    Any help is appreciated.
  2. caldwell02

    caldwell02 LoanSafe Member

    I would send an e-mail to jamie.dimon@jpmchase.com, david.b.lowman@jpmchase.com, and let them know you are also sending copies of your story/complaint to the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, The Senate Finance Banking committee, your congress people, your senators, and HUD. And then do that. Make sure you emphasize you were on the trial mod for SEVEN GD MONTHS. See if that gets any action. Good luck. I would also send your story to mortgage@zombeck.com and anyone and everyone you can. I am just so mad that Chase keeps doing this!!!!!!
  3. Jillian118

    Jillian118 LoanSafe Member

    if debt to income was the reason, they would have known that as pretty soon. Keep fighting. If you have been on a trial for a while, you are probably delinquent so ask them to run an inhouse program
    1 person likes this.
  4. jnadler

    jnadler LoanSafe Member

    CHASE/WAMU will give a trial modification payment over the phone if you are currently in default while reviewing the documents. I have found that homeowners trying to modify their mortgage with CHASE will submit the financial information verbally and get a trial payment, after the underwriter reviews the file realizes that the modified payment will still put you in the negative each month.

    Example:

    Pre-Mod
    Gross Income: $2500.00
    mtg pymnt: $1050
    other exp: $2200
    deficit: -$750.00

    Trial Mod
    Gross Income: $2500.00
    mtg pymnt: $775.00
    other exp: $2200.00
    deficit: -$475.00

    Most of the verbal trial modification plans do not take into account your monthly expenses and as they see after you submit proof of income and expenses that you still can't afford the payment and the plan will be denied due to insufficient income. This is the major reasons why CHASE is denying HAMP trial mod after the homeowner makes 6 payments or whatever.

    I always look at the GROSS INCOME figure and determine the trial payment for HAMP and then make sure that figure will bring the homeowner back into the black, according to their net income. The second thing I do is make sure that CHASE can make a PITI and HOA payment out of the amount of the HAMP payment.

    Example:
    Taxes and Insurance: $9,000.00 per year
    HOA: $1,200.00
    Yearly Income: $30,000.00

    HAMP Trial payment $775.00 which will not cover the taxes and insurance on the property and obviously be denied once it goes to underwriting.


    I hope maybe this information will shed some light on to the reason so many HAMP trials are being denied.
    1 person likes this.
  5. BrokeBorrower

    BrokeBorrower LoanSafe Member


    I doubt this was the case because it doesn't take 7 months to figure it out. In fact when they take your initial app they calculate not only your mortgage vs. income but they figure in your property tax and HOA when coming up with the trial payment - the payments include those such as impounded taxes (mandatory) but the HOA you are responsible for but again they ask for those numbers, as well as food, car expenses/payments, utilities and so on. It's not like they ignore everything except for the mortg payment and income!

    But like I said in a different discussion, according to the government, there is an article in CNN Money that states that only 1.26% of those who are approved for a trial period actually get approved for a final modification, as of Sept. 2009 those are the figures and they're not climbing, so 98.74% of us are in the same boat that's if you get approved for the trial period to begin with. I think they already make up their mind to decline applicants but try to collect as much money as they can during the mod before the inevitable of putting you through a short sale or foreclosure.
  6. jamin415

    jamin415 LoanSafe Member

    So do I stop making my payments and reapply or continue making my payments? I sent them all the same income docs to be pre approved as I did when they requested updated docs my 3rd payment. I could understand if I had not sent my income docs and it was over the phone but nothing had changed.

    I am waiting on a phone conference they offered me with the negotiator so i will find out specifically then.

    @ caldwellb02 has anyone actually gotten a response from those emails?

    thanks in advance!
  7. Hopefull2009

    Hopefull2009 LoanSafe Member

    This is incorrect. Unfortunately, when they take the initial "informal" app, they only figure 31% of your gross income as the payment. After the paperwork is submitted and they run the numbers, there is a breakdown of how much of that 31% goes to P&I and how much to taxes and insurance. So, for instance - if 31% of your income is $700 and your taxes turn out to be $600 a month, that only leaves $100 for principal and interest monthly. This isn't discovered until the paperwork and numbers are reviewed and verified.
  8. Garry

    Garry LoanSafe Member

    Keep making the payments, the bank will work something out with you. I'm also wondering if you have an FHA loan? The rules are more strict for FHA HAMP when it comes to back end debt ratios.
  9. davephx

    davephx LoanSafe Member

    Yes as Gary asked is it FHA?

    If not FHA but regular HAMP while the "budget" may have a small effect on the NPV test, the debt to income ratio if over 55% ONLY means you have to agree to credit counseling, it is not by itself a legitimate reason to deny. again.. unless its FHA where it is a denial reason.
  10. jamin415

    jamin415 LoanSafe Member

    Thank everyone for their help! its greatly appreciated. Its not an FHA loan. I took out an MTA "option arm" with a heloc second. The heloc has since been charged off. I only want a fixed rate as I do not qualify for a refinance anymore obviously. I dont want this thing to adjust and 2 years down the road I am toast again. Anyone done a forensic loan audit and would that help or is that a bunch of hype?

    When I went through my "crisis" I did not pay all my debt so everything but my home and car has been charged off and I cant even pay the creditors anymore I have to pay the collection company so I dont even know what a payment would be. So I only have those 2 debts. Obviously at some point I have to pay the others but why would they just count those 2 payments? My debt ratio is below the 55% with those 2 debts.

    So no they never offered the credit counseling. They said its the investors call. WTF?

    Also anyone have an email address for the senators and representatives.... I wanted to forward my letter to them as well or should I just use the contact forms on the websites?

    thanks in advance.
  11. jamin415

    jamin415 LoanSafe Member

    Just spoke to a manger at Chase over the negotiators. Basically told me it did not make sense for the bank to service my loan. Said my value was $445,000 loan balance is 600,000. So based on my income and the rate they would have to provide ( 2% ) it id not make sense.

    Whats that about? Thats the whole reason why there are not more mods..... Properties are so underwater that it makes more sense to take the loss.

    He stated that when you are denied a mod you are automatically looked at for other options and there are none for me. What to do?
  12. MyHAMP

    MyHAMP LoanSafe Member

    The lower the value is in regards to the balance owed, the more sense a mod normally makes. In our case, value was about $300K and debt $560K.

    Now, if the interest-bearing principal would be too low based on escrow and a low gross-income, the NPV could be negative.

    That doesn't make too much sense, right?;)
  13. darkdays

    darkdays LoanSafe Member

    Looking at the numbers, there is a deficit with and without the modification it's just a matter of the degree of the deficit. Also, the house is underwater. Based on those reasons I think the bank's decision would withstand any scrutiny given. Is there any way you can increase your income?
  14. litton nightmares

    litton nightmares LoanSafe Member

    They CERTAINLY knew early on what your monthly income was and there is absolutely no excuse for them leading you on for SEVEN fn months, getting you further in the hole by the time they got around to letting you no, it was a no go. I definitely would reapply and possibly file bankruptcy. You need to get some legal advice on this, do a search of you state .gov sites and find out where to go for foreclosure help, most states now have FREE services for homeowners trying to stave off foreclosure. DO NOT PAY ANYBODY A NICKEL.
  15. jamin415

    jamin415 LoanSafe Member

    I do not understand NPV but my question is this. Chase says the NPV does not make sense to grant a modification. So I cant make my income any greater. But I do know that the value they have, 440,000, is without 800 sq ft finished space. So adding the 800 sqft would make my value go up maybe 60 to 80 k. So instead of having a 440,000 value on a 600,000 note, i may have a 500k value on a 600k note.

    Would it help in NPV calculations if I told them and sent them the appraisal they used for the original loan? This sq ft is not on tax records. It shows as unfinished.

    Do you all think this would change anything about the denial.

    Thanks!
  16. jnadler

    jnadler LoanSafe Member

    @BrokeBorrower
    The reason it takes 7 months is because they are indeed that buried in this process and I have a final modification in my hand that is 6 months old on the trial plan. You can keep looking at the statistics but I can assure you that I deal with CHASE every day and I know what borrowers are submitting to the lender and I know how to fix it to complete the modification. Yes I do agree that CHASE is giving people hopes when they set up a trial payment just to deny them 6 or 7 months down the road but for those homeowners that stay persistent it does payoff if you can afford the payment and are in need of help.
  17. MyHAMP

    MyHAMP LoanSafe Member

    Actually, it would hurt your chances. If your value is higher, they get more money in case of foreclosure...
  18. Bert C

    Bert C LoanSafe Member

    Jnadler, exactly what help are you able to provide to "fix it". I am trying to get a mod with Chase for over 8 or 9 months now. Was on a trial for 6 before being denied due to "hardship not of a permanent nature". Now after contacting HOPE was placed on another trial that supposedly starts in FEB 2010. I am nonetheless open to other options or suggestions. Do you offer some, or know of any?

    Bert
  19. litton nightmares

    litton nightmares LoanSafe Member

    Hello Bert! One of the DIRECTIVES at the Making Home Affordable .gov website, SPECIFIES that it does NOT MATTER IF A HARDSHIP is TEMPORARY or PERMANENT. I would strongly suggest that you tell them YOU ALREADY DID A TRIAL and send you your damned permanent modification! That is RIDICULOUS.
  20. litton nightmares

    litton nightmares LoanSafe Member


    FINE, and THAT IS WHY THEY CAN DEFER, INTEREST FREE WHATEVER THEY NEED TO IN ORDER TO MAKE IT WORK, THEY CAN KEEP THAT INTEREST WAY DOWN, FOR THE WHOLE 30 YEARS, MAKE THAT UP TO 40 YEARS, AND PUT THE REST IN THE NO INTEREST BALLOON, THEY CAN HELP ANY HOMEOWNER IF THEY FOLLOW THE GUIDELINES AND KEEP THEIR PART OF THE DEAL, PROBLEM IS THEY SEE IT AS NOT PROFITABLE ENOUGH, THEY JUST DENY, DENY, DENY IT CAN BE WORKED OUT, EVEN WHEN IT CAN! Since they can DEFER a LOT of the money owed.

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