Home Loans and Support

The countrywide screw just keeps getting tighter

Discussion in 'Countrywide Home Loans - Tell Us Your Countrywide ' started by MIDSOUTH, Jan 24, 2012.


    MIDSOUTH LoanSafe Member

    Bought home in 2002 and was told that we could refinance in 2 years for better interest rate. Before 2yrs was up, loan was sold to countrywide. We refinanced with countrywide in 2004 and got a 1 point difference in interest. In Spring 2008, Countrywide increased our payment over $600.00 per month. We had a fixed "normal" mortgage and i thought they had made a mistake. They told me there was an "escrow" problem and I would just have to **** it up. By the summer, we were falling behind and so we went to a lawyer who did the "means" test and promptly told us that we did not qualify for chapter 7--so he filed chapter 13. We began making payments under the plan (about $3500.00 per month). It wasn't long before, we fell behind. For 2 1/2 years, we would fall behind and then somehow scramble and get caught up. During this period, we found out that BOA had taken over the loan and in the Spring of 2011 received a letter from BOA stating that our escrow account had an overage of over 8K and the payment was lowered back to what it was originally. (i.e. $600 less). I requested they return the overage to me, but they refused b/c we were in chapter 13. I then suggested that they apply it to the principle--they said they would have to have the account reviewed and I never heard from them again.

    I then started going over the BK papers and saw a copy of the means test the atty had done. After researching into how to do a means test (found one on the BK court website). I saw that our atty had messed up! We should have been in Ch 7 all along. I called the atty and found out that he had left his practice to go be a BK trustee in another state. Before he left though, he got another atty as a partner and that atty converted our 13 to a 7. Now, with a month to go before discharge, I find that BOA is claiming 24 months past due; other secured creditors are also claiming huge past due numbers. Apparently, the BK trustee does not pay the secured creditors first-they pay the creditors over the course of the 5 year plan.

    We are kinda screwed. I am worried that BOA will just wait until Feb 2012 and after the case is discharged, will proceed with FC. I contacted them for the first time last Thursday and they suggested that I send in documents to request a modification. They did not advise to request a "certain" type of mod. I never even heard of the mods out there until I came upon this site. I faxed them the docs they requested and called on Friday and was told they had already imaged my docs. So, they have everything they need except for a letter from our atty authorizing them to speak to us regarding the mod. For some reason--that they have not received even though I faxed it myself last Friday. I have re-faxed it today.
  2. HeavySigh

    HeavySigh LoanSafe Member

    Countrywide also told us there was a problem with the escrow and it had to go up $600 a month as well. They said it had something to do with the insurance--but the insurance didn't go up.

    You suppose it was a scam? Nah...not Countrywide/BoA...

    MIDSOUTH LoanSafe Member

    Well, after reading this site obsessively for the past couple of weeks, I sure feel better. I think "freedomwon" is my new hero! But here is what we have decided and accomplished so far:
    1. Told the BK atty to allow the 1st BOA and 2nd Greentree to discharge on Monday.

    2. After sending 20 page packet of docs on 1/19/11, I Contacted BOA and requested they escalate my case. Was assigned to Account manager (one point of contact) about 4 days later. Talked to her and she requested some more docs (but...she never did request I submit a MRA form--which in my understanding is required in order to take advantage of what little protection HAMP provides during this time period. (i.e. can not foreclose)

    3. Went thru the MHA (HOPE) people to find out what docs they suggest I send to BOA and they added a bunch more. Also went thru their budget process (2 1/2 hrs) so I now have a ID with HOPE as well.

    4. On 2/2/12, I faxed a 50 page packet (RMA, 4506-T; Dodd Frank Certificate; 2009 & 2010 tax returns; 2 more addtl updated pay stubs; profit/loss statements for business from Oct 11-Jan 2012; utility bill; statement of HOA; and a couple of other minor docs-actually it faxed 2x...oops :)

    5. received a letter on 2/2/12 from BOA stating that they have received my 20 page package and the request for "workout" is under review and will take approx 45 days. Of course, they have not imaged the 50 page packet sent yesterday though--which I think is more detailed and responsive regarding my request for HAMP.
  4. Cat Damiano

    Cat Damiano Mortgage Wars

    Just a little fyi, freedomwon is a she, you referred to her as a he in your other post. :amuse:

    MIDSOUTH LoanSafe Member

    its funny how you get a picture in your mind of someone and then translate that into writing!
  6. calgirl67

    calgirl67 LoanSafe Member

    Same thing happened to us. We bought a house in CA in 2005 and paid dutifully on time for 4 yrs UNTIL Wells Fargo sent us a $12,000 escrow bill. Yes $12 grand. Of course we couldn't pay it. So they whacked up our payment by $1100 a month.

    Our house foreclosed Dec 2011. After 5 mod attempts. Its a joke. They can force you into default and there's really not a lot you can do about it.
  7. isisis

    isisis LoanSafe Member

    I know what you mean. The manner in which people write tends to create an image in our minds to which we instinctively assign a gender.

    MIDSOUTH LoanSafe Member

    Thought I would give an update:

    6. On Friday 2/3/2012 I called and was automatically put thru to my acct manager, A. Rich-left a message regarding whether the 50 page fax had been imaged.

    7. On Monday 2/6/2012 she called me back (kinda surprised about that). She stated she needed a couple of items fixed (signatures on hardship letter sent 1/19/12 and actual "days" listed on my profit & loss statements--not just the month and year. I faxed the corrected docs back on 2/6/12 (same day).

    8. This morning (2/10/12) I called and was automatically put thru to acct manager A. Rich and she answered. Asked whether the file was complete. She advised that it needed a "final review" before being sent to underwriter. I asked whether she would be the one to conduct the final review? She said she could do the "final review" and may be able to get to it today--if so, she would call me today to let me know if complete. If not, I should give it 7 days and then call to make sure.

    Been researching the CWAB my loan is in. Just like alot of people have found, Countrywide filed the prospectus & PSA in July 2003 and by January 2004 they filed a Form 15d (which is their request to not be required to file with the SEC anymore b/c the "holders" i.e. investors fell below 300). What was interesting is that the number of investors they listed was "4" left. Yes...I said 4 investors...for about 1290 loans originally in the CWAB--totaling about $277,000,000.00.

    Another interesting note about the docs they did file before the Jan 2004 request not to file anymore, was that they claimed originally that all the loans were current...but the very first reporting month after creating the CWAB, they showed loans that were 60 and 90 days late. hmmmm...how can that be? Also, there would be loans (about 20 per month) just disappear--no late; no foreclosure, no bankruptcy..nothing/ no explanation..just gone. By the time they filed an amended prospectus in Aug 2004,(which was also the last filing for this CWAB) the CWAB had 919 loans left in it-1 year after creation.

    Also found where Countrywide filed a supplement to their prospectus in Aug 2004, where Countrywide Securities became the "principal" for the CWAB
  9. tiredofbofabs

    tiredofbofabs LoanSafe Member

    Oh my, you have been through the ringer with the Bk and everything. It seems B o A is taking care of you so that's good. Obviously although you just applied for your first mod, you are not a newbie and seem well versed in what is going on and what you need to do. . Ok I admit I didn't understand most of what you were talking about but I will research everything I don't understand and hope you will help guide me. I am so impressed with all the knowledge around here. Wow!
  10. tiredofbofabs

    tiredofbofabs LoanSafe Member

    I'm so sorry to hear your story. I know there are so many stories that are just heartbreaking and it's hard to read. There is comfort in numbers through and that you are not the only one.
  11. tiredofbofabs

    tiredofbofabs LoanSafe Member

    I'm sorry to hear that, does your loan require an impound account for hazard insurance, or did they just impose it on you? but $600.. more per month for hazard insurance is high? Did you get an explanation of the costs?
    Please let me know, I hate things like that[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif], [/FONT]discions[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT] are made for you by the person who would benefit the most.
    Countrywide did the same thing to me every year, and impose
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]impound[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]es[/FONT] for hazard insurance. Every year they were wrong and it would take months to straighten out but at least it did get straightened out[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].[/FONT] I had a contact person and a direct telephone number to help me.
    My payments would increase about $200.00 per month for coverage of about $500,000.00 but it only covered the structure, nothing inside the home or personal property. At least it had the highest premiums of any insurance company and provided the least amount of benefits. Do you want to bet your insurance company is somehow affiliated with your favorite bank? As long as there's not a conflict of interest between the company picking the insurance company and the insurance company. :(

    [FONT=helvetica, arial]
    [/FONT][FONT=helvetica, arial]

  12. tiredofbofabs

    tiredofbofabs LoanSafe Member

    I'm so sorry to hear that. It's so hard especially when you feel it wasn't a fair fight. The big bully doesn't care how much he/she hurt you.

    We can only hope at some point, the Banks pay for all the harm they are doing. It's heartless, rules are broken, and the way it 's handled is horrible. Some wrongs can't ever be righted ( sorry for the grammer, I think it's a saying)

    Please let me know how you are doing? Again, so sorry things like that made you lose your home.
  13. isisis

    isisis LoanSafe Member

    Hi Midsouth,

    You might want to check over on the thread Is Bank of New York Mellon Trustee for certificate holders of your Loan?
    There's some info for CWABS trusts including the BNY investor website where yoyu can check on things. Interesting what you found out about just four investors left. Was that in the prospectus on Secinfo? I think almost all the trusts stopped reporting and some speculate they no longer even exist. I wonder if the loans you saw disappear could have been because they never were really in the trust. I understand they appeared to be considerably over collateralized at first because loans were placed in more than one pool.

    The whole issue with the trusts is the biggest mystery in this to me both in terms of what really happened and in terms of how the banks expected to get away with it. In my case as in many people's my loan was assigned to a REMIC after I was in default which is against IRS REMIC rules, NY trust laws and the trust's governing agreements. There is even a little bit of case law coming out at last supporting the fact that that can't happen.
    Right now I have a Validation of Debt letter that Bofa has given an initial response to that deals with that issue and they claim they are investigating it further, in other words they are seeing what they can safely say in response without committing themselves and their litigation department down the line.

    Complicating matters to some extent for my investigation are two factors: my CWABS 2006 SD2 is a private deal that is now owned by Wilmington trust so the only way to find anything out is through discovery if I take them to court and the other is my loan originated five years earlier than the creation of the trust it's allegedly in.

    Fortunately I like mysterys not that I expect to get very far in solving this one.
  14. tiredofbofabs

    tiredofbofabs LoanSafe Member

    I got great news this morning. B OF A CALLED ME AT 8:00 A.M. TO TELL ME MY SALE DATE WAS POSTPONED UNTIL APRIL 2ND, AND MY LOAN MODIFICATION REQUEST WAS BEING REVIEWED BY UNDERWRITTING[ That was the first time in almost three years that I got good news, or any news from them. I don't have much faith that we will get a modification but I'm this is huge for me, they actually did something. That foreclosure rep rocked! She not only returned my calls but called me daily even if she didn't have news.
    and they didn't wait until 24 hours or less from the sale date and I canceled the bankruptcy that was going to filed today. It's a Miracle.
    Thanks to everyone here who gave advise, and let me know I was not alone in this nightmare. I'm not sure I could have made it through the last few days without it.

    Ahhh, I can breath for the first time in weeks! I have can look at other options and look for a job!. ..
  15. isisis

    isisis LoanSafe Member

    Hi Tiredofbofasbs,

    Congratulations, I'm happy for you. I've gotten a few reprieves myself in the process and know what you mean about being able to breath.

    This forum really is valuable for those of us going through this. It seems to bring out the best in people, helping each other while we're all feeling uncertain and without anywhere else to turn for answers in the midst of this mess the banks created.

    Sounds like you lucked out with your contact person, mine will not return the dozens of calls I've made.
    Whatever you do don't become too trusting. Keep educating yourself about the legal issues involved and what your rights are. Make a back up plan, actually make a few with numbered steps. As good as it feels getting hopeful news it feels even worse proportionally getting bad news and then panic or a sort of paralysis sets in just when you need to be clear headed to fight back. Being prepared really helps and there are many things that can be done to stop a foreclosure no matter what the bank tells you.

    MIDSOUTH LoanSafe Member

    Hi there Isisis

    I found the number of investors left in the CWABS on the Form 15d. I was surprised that it was there frankly.

    I have been working on getting all of my old correspondence from/to countrywide for the past 10 years. Our home was new when we allegedly bought it (haha) and I have found the original loan number that countrywide gave us when they began "servicing" the note in 2002. Then for some reason, we got another loan number from them and that is the number that BOA is using currently. I want to find out whether the original loan number was securitized prior to the change in loan numbers to the current one. The reason I believe it was is because when I go to the MERS site and put in the property address, the only thing that comes up is the current loan number with BOA as the servicer and BONY as the investor. When I go to the SEC website and put the info in and find our "current" loan number it only goes back to Aug 2003 but we purchased the property in FEB 2002 with CH MORTGAGE (they "sold" it to CW a couple of months later to-CW) as the originator and "countrywide" as the investor....my gut tells me that CW would never have kept this loan without securitizing it for over a year--it was just too greedy to hold on to it.

    Thanks for the link, I'll check it out!


    congratulations! Maybe we both will hear something as the same time :)
  17. isisis

    isisis LoanSafe Member

    Sounds like you and I are very similar trails, Midsouth. I was wondering why your loan trust was a different number than your origination date. Everyone else I've seen has had a date within 90 days. I agree that it's hard to imagine greedy CW hanging on to a loan especially as I understand the pools were created, were funded prior to origination. This opens up another interesting can of worms in that the bank never loaned the money and was only lending its name to the transaction. That leaves the issue open to TILA violations for lack of disclosure and allows usury to come into play without a banker's exemptions. A thread discussing that is

    Securitized Loans, TILA Rescission Extension & Usury

    But back to the trusts, like you I suspect my loan was in another trust initially, corresponding 2001 origination date. I've tried to find it on Secinfo but couldn't see an area where there were loan numbers associated with likely trusts.
    It's also unclear to me whether loans can be transferred to other trusts although I've run across references to "substitutions" indicating it’s a possibility.
    Any pointers you have on navigating the Secinfo site i.e., where the loan numbers are listed would be vastly appreciated. You said "When I go to the SEC website and put the info in and find our current number," could you elaborate?

    Ultimately I keep hoping to run across some way or someone who knows how to track the money down and can show insurance money that was paid to the trusts to cover defaulted loans or tax credits given. I think in many cases the trusts were paid off and then dissolved and only exist now as a sort of front allowing the banks to foreclose on properties they never owned.

    MIDSOUTH LoanSafe Member

    Hi Isisis

    Well, the problem that i am having is that i originally found that the investor for the "current" loan number is BONY-M by looking at MERS. When I first went to MERS in Jan 2012, there was an "inactive" file and and "active" file for the property address. I didn't understand the implications of that at the time..when I go back now, there is no listing for "inactive" file. Someone is changing/ deleting history and stuff on the MERS website.

    so, my problem is that it is not conclusive that BONY-M was the trustee for my original account number. Although, the original note was entered into with CH Mortgage (the builder's mortgage company) and the investor was "countrywide"--i still have no info on who the trustee was...only that CW seems to have like using BONY.

    Anyhow, when you go to the SEC site, do a search for "companies". (using their system called EDGAR) the name if your company is the trust name. For isntance, the trust my loan number is in is called CWABS 2003-4...so i just did a search for CWABS...and up pops all of these CWABS...then look for the numerical part of your trust...click on that and look for the prospectus/ pooling servicing agreement and then look for form 15d. Save those and then go and start clicking on all of the filings for your trust. Hope this helps!

    MIDSOUTH LoanSafe Member


    Hey, I mistyped in a prior post---i found the loan number listing on the BONY website and not on the SEC sorry about that!
  20. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide


    Congratulations on the postponement. I know what it's like getting BOA to postpone a TS.

    You've been fortunate to find a good rep who cares; they're few and far between.

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