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Recorded records about my mortgage.

Discussion in 'Foreclosures' started by acesfull, Sep 29, 2011.

  1. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi All

    I think all you folks will find this interesting. The recording of my mortgage and what else followed.
    This is interesting and may be useful to me in my foreclosure delay strategy.

    1- Obtained Mortgage in 2004- Mortgage note recorded at court house.

    2- 2006- Received a $70k cash out refinance. the refinance cancelled the original note. The note from 2004 is recorded as note Satisfied/Paid.

    The new refinance is not recorded. This is the interesting part.

    3- 2008- I received a mortgage modification. The new modification is not yet recorded at the court house.

    4- 2009- I received another mortgage modification. The new modification is not yet recorded at the court house

    It appears that my original mortgage is paid in full.. LOL. This would be great however I am not to optimistic about not having a mortgage. I just find it strange that the cash out refinance and the last two modifications are not presently recorded at the court house. Does this situation seem RATHER ODD to all my fellow LS members? It is confusing.
    Anyway, please let me know what you think on this interesting development.

    Best regards,
    NJ-11 Months
    Acesfull/HWP
  2. CN0916

    CN0916 LoanSafe Member

    Hi Acefull!

    That really shows they have no clue what they are doing! That will no doubt help with delaying the foreclosure. I wonder if the 2004 refi it was not recorded because the documents never existed? Maybe it is part of the robo-signing scam?? I think I will take a trip the my town hall tomorrow!
  3. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    acesfull - Many documents bypassed getting recorded due to MERS. MERS started by & for the banks did this and as a direct result bypassed your local county recorders office. I have written MERS asking for info on my loans & have received no response. Just put another letter in the mail yesterday. Was MERS on your original loan docs back in 2004?
  4. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi CNO916

    Good idea to get your recorded information. I have read that if the deed/mortgage is not properly recorded then it is very difficult to enforce and difficult to prove ownership thereof..

    I am hoping that this confusion will lead to some more months without a mortgage payment and quit possibly get a decent principle reduction.. Oh well you never know in this crazy mortgage mess.

    Good luck and keep us posted on your findings.

    Best regards
    Nj-11 months
    Acesfull
  5. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi Freedomwon

    There was no mention of MERS anywhere on the recorded documents nor on the foreclosure complaint.
    I think there mistake may lead to something positive for yours truely. LOL

    Best regards
    Nj-11 months
    Acesfull/HWP
  6. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    Hi acesfull - This might be just the lucky break you need in your case. It's all about the order in which things get recorded. I'm wondering if it would work to your advantage to file a "quiet title".
  7. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi Freedomwon

    I am currently working on a motion to dismiss the original complaint. Gaithering some relevant case law etc.
    I will do some research into what is required by my state to initiate a quite title claim. May be the local court clerk will volunteer some helpful info or maybe a local attorney will file one on my behalf for a few hundred dollars.

    Your right this may be a break for me and my family. At the very least it may give me some leverage in regard to receiving a principle reduction. My home is currently underwater by 190k and sinking everday. The taxes keep going up and folks are lossing there jobs around here at a rapid pace. I hope there error gives me some extra time in the property.
    Thanks again Freedomwon.

    Best regards
    NJ-11 Months
    Acesfull/HWP
  8. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide Staff Member

    Hi acesful and freedomwon

    acesful, before you get your hopes up too high on this "missing" or unrecorded lien, and perhaps do a lot of needless and fruitless work, you might have a title company (or law firm if that's how it's done in NJ) run a title report to see if that mortgage lien is of record. It's not at all uncommon for a property owner doing his own search to miss the lien recording. Sometimes it can be due to the county recorder's office making an indexing error.

    Title companies in my state turn stuff up that is easy to miss; they have their own "title plants" that find stuff despite any recording or indexing errors.
  9. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi Tom
    Excellent idea. From the court records only the original deed was recorded in 2004- then in 2006 the mortgage amount was marked paid.
    the refinance of 2006 was not recorded.. This is the interesting part.

    2008- modification not yet recorded.
    2009- modification not yet recorded.

    Three transactions of interest and not one were recorded. My guess is one transaction not recorded is a error. Two transactions not recorded is incompetence, and three transactions not recorded well thats just a big break for Acesfull.
    It could turn out that AHMSI with H$R block did not have the authority to issue me a $70k cash out refinance, then also give me two additional modifcations that are still not recorded.
    Tom, I just think that there is more to this equation then a simple error.
    Tom, back in 2006 when I received the cash-out refiance, why was this transaction not recorded as a refinance? Also I was never given a 1099 from H&R block in regard to the 70k, These two thinks have me thinking that something shady was going on

    Tom, please let me know your thoughts now that I supplied more information.

    Best regards,
    Nj-11 Months
    Acesfull
  10. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    Anytime Acesfull! We all need to hang on to hope for those principal reductions. If the Dept of the Treasury would put an end to the "loss share agreement" with the banks, that would for sure force them into doing principal reductions.
  11. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide Staff Member

    acesfull

    Thanks for your response. Please know that I'm on your side and hope the liens truly are unrecorded. Needless to say, that would be a huge win for you!

    The arguments you pose, while seemingly cogent, are as of now, anecdotal only. Convincing me and other members is irrelevant and unimportant.

    I was merely suggesting you have your title run by a professional, just to be sure, before you rush into doing a bunch of work based on those hopes.

    And, if it does turn out that the liens were never recorded, you will want to take swift action without alerting AHMSI. If AHMSI becomes aware of the non-recording, they can still have the mortgage recorded. Your goal should be to beat them to the recorder's office with a "friendly lien" that will cover all of your equity (or more). Then, if AHMSI should ever record their mortgage, it will be an underwater 2nd mortgage!

    Have fun.
  12. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi All

    I went to the county of records for my county and state.

    Well all my recorded deeds state 0 consideration. This is crazy. There is no update record of my refinance or any of my two modifications. I will contact a title firm tomorrow to dig deeper into this bizzare turn of events.

    According to the records I acesfull paid my mortgage debt of $326k back in 2006.. Ha Ha
    There is no other consideration...
    Well do I own my home free and clear?

    Best regards
    NJ-11 Months
    Acesfull
  13. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    acesfull - I think you know what's on your agenda for tomorrow! WOW! I think you're on to something here. As I always say "leave no rock unturned"! Explore all possibilities.
  14. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi Tom

    The whole non recording of the refinance is baffling to me. Also the investor/bank US Bank handed this over to an attorney for a foreclosure. It seeems that the attorney failed to do due diligences on the account.
    On the other hand maybe the attorney just assumed I was going to vacate the home without putting up a fight.
    In the complaint filed by the attorney there was no note attached to the complaint. It appears that these foreclosure mill attorneys that the banks are hiring are hoping to get a quick win without a fight. I personally feel the courts will not take kindly to officers of the court presenting cases without merit.
    I will have a title search company look into this whole mess an see where the cards fall.

    Best regards Tom

    Nj-11 months
    Acesfull/HWP
  15. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide Staff Member

    Hi acesfull

    Thanks for your update. I'm glad you plan to have the title searched. Again, I certainly hope they don't find any recorded AHMSI mortgage lien.

    I know you'll let us know what turns up. Have a good weekend!
  16. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    I believe you hit the nail on the head. There's so much easy money out there. Far too many people give up & walk away. Those are the easy targets for these banks & their attorneys. It's people like you & I are many others here on loansafe that keep on fighting with every strategy we can think of.
  17. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi Freedomwon

    I feel reluctant to file a motion to dismiss my case until I look deeper into this title issue. I would hate to think that I gave AHMSI/US BANK a chance to get there ducks in order, like Tom said I should investigate this issue an act accordlying an be swifter in my actions.
    May be my best defense is a very quite offense. LOL.
    Freedomwon, It would appear that I am what they say in the poker world, Free Rolling. Free rolling meaning I fully intended on losing my underwater home, so in that respect I have nothing to lose, if I lose the home so be it, however if I could stretch this process out for a substancial amount of time an incur a small amount of expense, so be it, then I feel I gained a small financial victory. Only time will tell.

    Best regards,
    Nj-11 Months
    Acesfull/HWP
  18. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi All

    Today the county records show my Lis Pendes being filed on 8-30-11. However no mention of an open deed or mortgage.

    I will be meeting with a title company this week to have them do an extensive title search.

    I will also be doing some research in regard to homeowners that had success with lawsuits in regards to the bank filing premature lawsuits for foreclosure, by premature I mean while the homeowner was being considered for a federal mortgage modification.
    The bank clearly violated the directives of the treasury dept however the directives are not laws. Lawsuits have been filed and won on less merits then directives. So please if you see any literature in regard to this subject please advise thru this tread.
    TIA.

    Best regards
    NJ- 1 year
    Acesfull
  19. Jeffrey L. Shurtliff

    Jeffrey L. Shurtliff LoanSafe Member

    HI Aces. First off there is a thing called Presumption. If your documents have a presumtion then the only way you can defeat them is to show there is violation of state law which challenges the Presumption. If a complaint has been filed against you to foreclose they Must attach a proof showing Presumption of a real claim against you. Your state law governing Lis pendens should have other ajoining laws to allow a filing of a Quiet Title Action, pusuant to your state laws. If they have no proof of a document that is central to their complaint then that is grounds for dismissal. They allege claims but the claims are not backed up by the facts and that is the supporting documents. Some states you can go for a dismissal with a Quiet title action. Just depends. If you can get a dismissal with prejudice then they will not be able to foreclose again on you because of the Doctrine of Collateral Estoppel. Then you can go for quiet title.
  20. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi Jeffrey

    As always great informative reply. In my answer and my MTD I informed the court that the plaintiff failed as a matter of law to a attach a copy of the note and or contract and or debt instrument it alludes to. However I am not sure if I should just file another motion to compel discovery and request all documents and legal proof of standing that the plaintiff is alluding to.

    Now in regard to filing a quite claim for title. The statue in NJ states that a person must of paid the property tax for 5 consecutive years to qualify to file a quite title. I qualify in that regard. However I am guessing there is more then just that statue to be considered.

    I am meeting this week with a title specialist in my county, hopefully they will shead some light on the subject. By the way an attorney wanted 5k to start the quite title motion. I'm sure with a little research and some help here on LS that I could begin the process for 20% of that figure or less. LOL


    Jeffrey, How is your lawsuit moving along? Please keep us posted.

    TIA and God Bless to you and yours.


    Best regards

    Nj-1 year
    Acesfull/HWP

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