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PNC Mortgage & Modification - Any Advice?

Discussion in 'Making Home Affordable' started by zz0503969, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. zz0503969

    zz0503969 LoanSafe Member

    If anyone has any successful strategies that have worked with PNC then please share! I applied for HAMP at their suggestion in 11/09 and spent 7 months making trail payments until 6/10 when they sent notice that we were denied due to 'Excessive Forbearance' and 'cannot yield an affordable payment' which is frustrating because I was current on the mortgage before entering the trial period and made every trial payment but in essense they are telling me I can't afford my house! It seems like they think we are a lost cause because we were also denied for an in house modification - no reason for denial given for that. Now they have sent back my last 2 payments and sent out a notice of foreclosure. My income has actually increased by $2,000 per month since I first applied for HAMP so I have reapplied and sent all info into PNC but am getting mixed answers from internet/PNC/counselors on whether or not I am eligible to reapply since I have been on a trial program but denied. So where are my burning questions:

    1. Am I still eligible for HAMP?
    2. The investor on my mortgage is non GSE (not FannieMae or Freddie Mac) does this hamper efforts to get HAMP accepted?
    3. Why does PNC act so indifferent? There has been no collection calls, no contact at all really unless i call them? Is this just how they do business? I went from the trail program, to being considered for inhouse mod then basically straight into foreclosure status with no one really telling me what I owe in full or trying to work out a payment arrangement. It just seems like they are dead det on foreclosing?
    4. Sale date has been set for 10/2/2010 - what do I do from here if I am committed to keeping my home?
    Loan amount is $522,000 - We have an income of $12,000 per month, we CAN make a payment, I have some money in savings, plus my income is up - seems like we are good candidates for them to work out an option rather than conducting a costly foreclosure, but it certainly doesn't seem that way by the results i am getting! Any advice is appreciated!
  2. Evan Bedard

    Evan Bedard Call 1-800-779-4547 Loan Safe Mortgage

    Welcome and thank you for joining.

    Unfortunately since they already denied your account for a permanent modification under HAMP you cannot get another modification under this program. HAMP is a one shot deal and once a decision is made it is typically final.

    No just because your loan is not backed by Fannie or Freddie does not disqualify you for this program..

    This is how pretty much all lenders are doing business today. With the economy in such a mess these banks are completely overwhelmed with defaulted loans so it is no surprise why they have not been sending you collection calls. One thing I'm surprised about is they already denied you for an in-house mod when it seems they did not even have enough time to process it..

    Call constantly and get your case back in review for a modification right away. Many times lenders will postpone the sale date if you are actively working on a solution. Here try using these contacts to help get your account back in review


    Secretary for Phil Cunninham
    VP-Hamp customer Service

    Manager Cust Advocate Group

  3. zz0503969

    zz0503969 LoanSafe Member


    Thank you so much! I wish i would have know about this resource before or while I was on the HAMP trial program but I like so many just blindly trusted the customer advocates that work for the lender thinking they had my interest at heart. I think you must be right about them being overwhelmed and I thought it was also odd that they only took 2 weeks to review and say no to an in house mod but again I guess their mind is already made up about us. I will keep trying and appreciate the contact info!
  4. ernestauger

    ernestauger LoanSafe Member

    1. Who is the investor on your loan?

    2. Did PNC send you any information on the trail payment amount in writing before you started making the trail payments?

    3. It seems like they place you on a forbearance plan not HAMP trail payments.

    4. I am afraid with the increase in income they kicked you out of the trail program once they reviewed your updated documents and looked at your new Debt to Income Ratios.

    4. What is the amount of your mortgage payments (Principal, interest, taxes and insurance.)

    5. The $12,000 a month is that revenue from a business or W-2 income?
  5. zz0503969

    zz0503969 LoanSafe Member


    I do not know who the investor is (it is not Fannie or Freddie) and when I asked PNC said they are not allowed to share that information. Our regular P&I payment was $3540 (we did not have an escrow account) the trial payment was $3072 and yes was clearly outlined in the HAMP trial paperwork. We were actually denied for HAMP because they said we do not make enough money (reasons were 'unable to attain an affordable payment' and 'excessive forbearance') so I would think the additional income would make a difference but they never bothered to even ask for updated income info and unfortunately at that time i was blindly trusting them to ask for anything they needed instead of taking the initiatve to send it myself. Our taxes and insurance are $1,800 per month (which is I think part of the reason they denied because it is so high it makes a payment that has to include PITI not very profitable for them). Half of our monthly income ($6,200) is salary and my income is commission and was figured from P&L and YTD earnings averaged monthly. With the number of people unemployed, it still seems very odd to me that they would rather just take a loss on the loan and foreclose rather than work out an option with us when we can make a payment of 31% of our gross which is $3,720! They may not be making a lot of money on the reduced interest but at least its a profit, right?
  6. ernestauger

    ernestauger LoanSafe Member

    To address the first point lenders will for the most part work the loss mitigation process to their benefit. The servicer will run a Net Present Value Test (N.P.V.) and will determine what makes more sense for them financially (Foreclosure or Adjust the Terms of the Loan) Say lowering the payments $500 a month over a (5) year period, yes, the investor earns less of an income stream (however, it should be a more secure income stream), however, it is worst then loosing $75,000 net on all of the various costs of foreclosure. So it seems like they have determined that reducing your payment they would loose more then foreclosing on the property. (This is the general concept, however I don't know if it apply's to your case.)

    I think what has happened is that they have done their standard waterfall test. Where they take the amount you are behind and the amount you current owe (capitalization) and then lower the rate by .125% increments down to a 2% interest rate until they hit a 31% of your income. If they can not hit 31% of your income and they lowered it all the way down to 2% rate then the servicer will try to extend the term of the loan out and lower the payment that way. IF they still cant reach 31% then they will forgive principal at that point.

    Can you call the bank and find out how much you are behind. Find out what the payoff amount is. Also more or less what is the value of your home. You can contact your local real estate agent or try a website like Zillow, Real Estate ABC, or Cyberhomes to help determine the value of your home.

    This information will help me better determine your situation and help clarify your questions further.
  7. zz0503969

    zz0503969 LoanSafe Member

    The loan was current when I went on the HAMP trial program but after 7 months on the program I now owe the difference which is roughly $500 between the trail payment and actual payment of course plus late fees, additionally they sent back my payments for July and August because they said they could not accept them while I was being considered for an in house mod so the grand total approximately $18,000 so total payoff is $520,000. Had an appraisal done in January 2010 and the value was $525,000. Thanks for your help!
  8. ernestauger

    ernestauger LoanSafe Member

    What is the current interest rate on the loan?
  9. zz0503969

    zz0503969 LoanSafe Member

    the current rate is a 30 year fixed at 6.75%
  10. flippinwacko

    flippinwacko LoanSafe Member

  11. Daisy Cutter

    Daisy Cutter LoanSafe Member

    ZZ, you can use the MERS lookup tool on your loan to see a little more information about your loan. It may just say who your servicer is, which you already know is PNC, but give it a try and see what you discover.

    A lot of PNC loans are owned by E-trade who bought a ton of mortgages at the peak. If your loan is owned by ET, what happens with them is they play hardball until the actual NOD is filed or the loan is ready to charge off in the case of a second mortgage, and then POOF they are all of the sudden ready to work with you. You may want to decide if you want to keep your house at all though. How far underwater are you?

    The problem with these HAMP trials is that your original interest and loan payment accrues during the trial period- this amts to thousands of dollars that get tacked onto your loan and if you are underwater anyway you wind up MORE underwater. Lots of people who tried for HAMP on this site last year and earlier on are now saying they wished they just walked away from their house.

    BTW that forebearance thing that you were on is what E-trade does so I think your owner could be ET. Do you have a second mortgage?
  12. DHubie4

    DHubie4 LoanSafe Member

    Yes, I'm in the same boat you are with PNC and HAMP. I worked almost two years with them, same run around. Do you know who your investor is? What state do you live in? I've hired an attorney, and we have been successful in delaying the sale and have filed a lawsuit against PNC. YOU DO have options. They continually have violated the program. I'm in Michigan and they BLATANTLY disregarded HAMP and Michigan Law. I was denied at least 8 times and well qualified. They don't know what they're doing, and/or are pushing you to foreclosure for their own benefit. First thing to do is get them to stop the sale. GET AN ATTORNEY RIGHT AWAY!
  13. zz0503969

    zz0503969 LoanSafe Member


    Thanks for the advice. I am in TX and we apparently have a very accelerated foreclosure timeline because I was denied for Hamp after 7 months of trail payments on June 20 but then told don't worry we will do an in house mod on you only to find out on 8/2 that we were also denied for that. Then on 8/17 without a collection call one I was sent the foreclosure notice. I have since reapplied for an inhouse mod and they say I will have an answer within 10 days but I am wary that it doesn't leave me much time to scramble to stop the foreclosure sale on 10/5 if they again reject the in house mod. I met face to face today with PNC Home Preservation Rep at a DFW Hope workshop and he said something I thought was odd; I asked if he would share who the investor on the loan was (i know it is not Fannie or Freddie) and he said he could not share who the investor used to be but that PNC now was the investor because they had to buy the loan back from the investor because it was close to foreclosure. Doesn't this typically happen after the sale? Wondering if this helps my chances for an in house mod?
  14. DHubie4

    DHubie4 LoanSafe Member

    Depending on who the investor is, they may have had to buy back the loan when it reached a certain default stage. If you have one of the specialty lending products/ 80/20 or interest only, or stated income of jumbo, it's not uncommon to have that sort of agreement with the investor they sold it to. I WILL TELL YOU NOT TO BELIEVE A WORD THEY SAY, INCLUDING THEIR REPRESENTATIVE. GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING. IF THEY GAVE YOU NOTHING AT THE MEETING TO CONFIRM YOU WERE IN PROCESS OF A MOD GET SOMETHING! I HAD AN ATTORNEY REPRESENT ME AT MY "MEETING", AND LONG STORY SHORT WAS TOLD MY FILE WAS UNDER REVIEW, AND THE PROCEEDED TO FORECLOSURE AFTER TELLING MY ATTORNEY AND ME IN WRITING THAT THEY WOULD NOT PROCEED UNTIL I HAD A FORMAL WRITTEN RESPONSE. PLEEEEEEZE, they are not to be trusted. I don't know if it's deliberate, or if they are totally incompetent, probably both. You are definitely at a disadvantage with your state's foreclosure law, but I assume you still have time to find a real estate attorney that can ask for a temporary restraining order while you are in the "mod process". At least get it on record. In Michigan the law requires them to provide the reason for the denial, the calculations and guidelines they used to to make their decision. I can't believe there is a law in the land that wouldn't at least make them do that for you. Did you research the HAMP guidelines for non gse loans? Also, seems to me since PNC is now he "owner" of the paper, AND THEY SIGNED THE HAMP AGREEMENT WITH THE TREASURY THEY ARE IN A POSITION NOW TO FOLLOW THOSE RULES WITHOUT INTERFERENCE FROM THE INVESTOR. DID YOU GET ANYTHING IN WRITING AS TO WHY YOU WERE DENIED AFTER THE TRIAL PERIOD. I'm thinking it would really PiXX off the judge to see that you met your obligation for 7 months and they still denied you. It's pure bait and switch for them to collect more money from you to possibly make it more profitable for them to foreclose then modify. PLEASE GET AN ATTORNEY INVOLVED. You'll at least get some attention from someone up the food chain, and CALL THEM AND INSIST OF SOMETHING IN WRITING.. NOTE THE PERSON YOU SPOKE WITH, TIME, DATE AND WHAT THEY SAID...FIGHT!!!
  15. gferreira

    gferreira LoanSafe Member

    PNC Mortgage-Alt Mod approved-Dhubie4

    I need your adivise( please read below)
    I'm just sick to my stomach with worry..We have been fighting for MOD since April 09 and now I have a offer for Freddie /Hamp Backup Mod -there is no point in me taking it. It is $85.00 less than my current mortage payment . I do not have more than three months in my saving account now. It is now depleted since I have maintained a current status to date. My husband's unemployment is almost exhuasted. Based on postings that I have read on the board. My new terms does not reflect a piggy back of the Hamp and my investor is Freddie Mac. I was told by PNC that this decision was made by Freddie. I would like to challenge this. Can I re apply for Hamp or HARP. Should I send an email to MHA compliance and Freddie MAC?

    Servicer is PNC and I have a conventional loan wth Freddie Mac
    Current Payment is $2010.88 with PITI @ 5.75
    New offer is $1925.00 with PITI @5.37 for 25Yrs

    Thank you every one on this site for giving me the courage to keep fighting.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
  16. DHubie4

    DHubie4 LoanSafe Member

    Does anyone know what this "back up mod" thing is? I'm wondering why they didn't offer you the normal freddie hamp mod? Is it because you're not past due? PNC/NAT CITY is notorious for not disclosing the "whys" properly. They did the same to me, offered me a payment 200 less than I was already paying. They told me as long as I had retirement funds I could pull those and pay!! Please take a look at the HAMP GSE handbook and see why they won't offer you the normal hamp. YES, file complaints where ever you can, and also contact the executive area of the mortgage company. I had to keep fighting with them and challenging their decision to even get an offer. The more you know about the program, the better argument you have. If you can nail them on one point they screwed up on, they will reopen your file. BUT HURRY!!
  17. zz0503969

    zz0503969 LoanSafe Member

    Ok I just got a call from Loss Mitigation and they said I was approved for an inhouse mod with the following terms:
    Loan term extended to 480 months
    5 years at 2%
    year 6 at 3%
    year 7 at 4%
    year 8 at 4.625% then fixed for the life of the loan at that rate

    We are so grateful - it makes the payment for the next five years $3,773.50 which is affordable for us and although it is higher than my initial payment it did not include taxes or insurance so total the savings is over $1500 a month! Don't give up we were denied for HAMP twice and once for in house prior to this!

    Here is my burning questions: They would not give me anything in writing - said they would order an appraisal and title work then after that was done they would send perm docs - prob in about 2 weeks - so my question is what bearing does the appraisal have on this? I work in real estate so I know appraisals are subjective and the value from appraiser to appraiser varies. I sent an appraisal in with my info and the appr amount was $525,000 (loan amount was $522,000) but the tax source has our home appraised at $625,000 (I tried protesting the value to no avail - the city has a budget deficiet and I am convinced overvalueing properties is how they are overcoming it) so what happens if the value comes in at more, can they take the mod off the table? I can't take the rejection again! Anybody have any issues with appraisals for mods?
  18. gferreira

    gferreira LoanSafe Member

    Thank you very much and I really appreciate you getting back to me. I was also able to find on this site Treasury and Freddie Mac emails. I generated emails yesterday to MHA compliance,Borrower outreach at Freddie Mac and Mr. Goldling(SVP, Economics and Strategy; Program Executive, Making Home Affordable) My emails were read, because
    I requested read and delivery receipts options on my emails. No response to date. After being denied for Hamp due to not reaching the
    31% waterfall. I requested a Traditional in house modification because I did meet the percentgage and they will base the Mod off your net income instead of gross and I was told that I did not qualify because my harship was not Death. Divorce Disability. I am now requesting
    a second level review because I was not eligible for Hamp and the Hamp Backup MoD they approved me for is riduculus and I am at
    risk for devault in the very future.<!-- google_ad_section_end --> I am trying to locate HAMP GSE handbook On Freddie Website and was not successful.
  19. fedup7777

    fedup7777 LoanSafe Member

    I would get a lawyer fast and contest the foreclosure. they get 80-90% of your mortgage as a tax write off when they foreclose, then they get whatever amount they make on the resale. They basically make more money when they foreclose than they do when they give you a modification or any help. They are second to last in giving out HAMP. even if you qualify. I have been going through the same battle with them since Jan 2009 and they do not want to give me a HAMP , they want to keep us in a holding pattern until they can foreclose. read all the complaints in here and you will see the pattern. I tried getting help through HOPE now but they are overwhelmed with homeowners I think. you have to contest the foreclosure or basically you are telling the courts yes PNC has every right to foreclose on you.

    you have every right to get a HAMP and sounds to me like you qualify. Call HOPE now and call a lawyer, they usually will give you first advice for free and then give you rate for your case. think of it this way if you have to pay a lawyer to save your home its better than paying someone that's just going to steal your money.

    Fighting PNC to keep my home!
  20. totallyfrustrated

    totallyfrustrated LoanSafe Member


    Do you pay the attorney a flat fee? What amount? Or pay a percentage? How much? What outcome should one expect by hiring an attorney? Interest rate reduction and/or balance reduction?


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