PLEASE ONLY POST - Articles, Official Letters, Testimony, Rules and Regs. Moe - perhaps a Sticky is

THANKS2U

LoanSafe Member
I am trying to understand this as well and how it is calculated. I just emailed my friend who is a loan officer. I will also ask my HUD counselor to give it to me in layman terms. Just when I think I've got the puzzle figured out, I find another piece!

THANK YOU !

It is crazy isn't it - The HAMP program says they will modify, but then says NO they will not, because of some swindling loophole.

It is like saying you have been released from prison and just when they are escorting you out the gate, they say, hold up, you can't get out of this prison at all, because your socks don't match..

And then the entire prison staff lets out a huge sinister, diabolical laugh.

Lots of evil and darkness with these banks and servicers and Program guideline creators -

Look forward to what your freind and HUD counselor can decipher..

Really pisses me off that we should need to decipher the program like some kind of "National Treasure" film code --

The HAMP progrm should not be a puzzle to solve, it should be in plain english and easily explained and understood by all.

But I assume that is part of the plan, to stall and stall until either the borrowers give up or the deadline for these programs run out.

Thanks again ama125

Thanks2u
 

ama125

LoanSafe Member
I think I understand mark-to-market loan-to value ratio...
mark-to-market I believe means fair market value (what is your home worth today?)
loan-to-value is a ratio of the unpaid principal balance (UPB) of your loan divided by your home's current value times 100.

Let's use an example.

You owe 225K on your mortgage loan.

Your home's mark-to-market value (fair market value/what your home is worth today) is only 200K.

Your current (unmodified loan) LTV is 225K/200K*100 = 112.5% (loan amount/home value * 100)

If your NPV test is negative AND you require principal forbearance to achieve the 31% target, the unpaid principal balance (excluding the deferred principal balloon amount) must create a current mark-to-market LTV (current LTV based upon the new valuation) greater than or equal to 100 percent.

In my fictitious example, let's assume they have to forbear 50K, which now brings your UPB down to 175K. Your new mark-to-market LTV would be as follows: 175K/200K * 100 = 87.5%. Since this is lower than 100%, your loan would not be modified if your NPV was negative.

If they forbear 10K, your UPB is now 215K and the mark-to-market LTV would be 215K/200K * 100 = 107.5%. This is greater than 100% so if your NPV is negative then your loan would be modified.

If they forbear 25K, your UPB is 200K (exactly what your home is also worth now). Your mark-to-market LTV would equal exactly 100% and if your NPV is negative, your loan would be modified.

I think this is what that statement means. Anyone else have a take on this? Am I correct in understanding this?
 

Skipper

LoanSafe Member
I think I understand mark-to-market loan-to value ratio...
mark-to-market I believe means fair market value (what is your home worth today?)
loan-to-value is a ratio of the unpaid principal balance (UPB) of your loan divided by your home's current value times 100.

Let's use an example.

You owe 225K on your mortgage loan.

Your home's mark-to-market value (fair market value/what your home is worth today) is only 200K.

Your current (unmodified loan) LTV is 225K/200K*100 = 112.5% (loan amount/home value * 100)

If your NPV test is negative AND you require principal forbearance to achieve the 31% target, the unpaid principal balance (excluding the deferred principal balloon amount) must create a current mark-to-market LTV (current LTV based upon the new valuation) greater than or equal to 100 percent.

In my fictitious example, let's assume they have to forbear 50K, which now brings your UPB down to 175K. Your new mark-to-market LTV would be as follows: 175K/200K * 100 = 87.5%. Since this is lower than 100%, your loan would not be modified if your NPV was negative.

If they forbear 10K, your UPB is now 215K and the mark-to-market LTV would be 215K/200K * 100 = 107.5%. This is greater than 100% so if your NPV is negative then your loan would be modified.

If they forbear 25K, your UPB is 200K (exactly what your home is also worth now). Your mark-to-market LTV would equal exactly 100% and if your NPV is negative, your loan would be modified.

I think this is what that statement means. Anyone else have a take on this? Am I correct in understanding this?
So... If your NPV is positive, does any of it matter?

Thanks for all the research and ino!

Skipper
 

hope67

LoanSafe Member
ama125,

Can you please give us an example of how the NPV is caluclated to determine whether it's negative or positive? Thanks
 

THANKS2U

LoanSafe Member
I think I understand mark-to-market loan-to value ratio...
mark-to-market I believe means fair market value (what is your home worth today?)
loan-to-value is a ratio of the unpaid principal balance (UPB) of your loan divided by your home's current value times 100.

Let's use an example.

You owe 225K on your mortgage loan.

Your home's mark-to-market value (fair market value/what your home is worth today) is only 200K.

Your current (unmodified loan) LTV is 225K/200K*100 = 112.5% (loan amount/home value * 100)

If your NPV test is negative AND you require principal forbearance to achieve the 31% target, the unpaid principal balance (excluding the deferred principal balloon amount) must create a current mark-to-market LTV (current LTV based upon the new valuation) greater than or equal to 100 percent.

In my fictitious example, let's assume they have to forbear 50K, which now brings your UPB down to 175K. Your new mark-to-market LTV would be as follows: 175K/200K * 100 = 87.5%. Since this is lower than 100%, your loan would not be modified if your NPV was negative.

If they forbear 10K, your UPB is now 215K and the mark-to-market LTV would be 215K/200K * 100 = 107.5%. This is greater than 100% so if your NPV is negative then your loan would be modified.

If they forbear 25K, your UPB is 200K (exactly what your home is also worth now). Your mark-to-market LTV would equal exactly 100% and if your NPV is negative, your loan would be modified.

I think this is what that statement means. Anyone else have a take on this? Am I correct in understanding this?

ama125


Your Intelligent possibility is beyond my game... !

Let us know whether your real estate friend and HUD counselor concur with your very well put togther findings and example -

I wonder how many borrowers it may or may NOT help, for those who have a negative NPV and are with Fannie or Freddie...

So, let's say my total principal due is at 200,000, but my home is only worth a current market selling price of 140,000 -

Then, assuming for me to receive an affordable / VIABLE loan payment, the servicer would need to lower my interest to the 2 % floor and reduce my principal by 60,000, to equal a NEW MODIFIED principal balance of 140,000

Ok, now assuming they reduce 60,000 from my current principal due of 200,000... that would equal 140,000 due principal. With a non interest balloon payment due, of the 60,000, at end of loan or when I sell... ?

Since 140,000 is the current market value selling price I would take that 140,000 divide it by the NEW MODIFIED reduced principal balance of 140,000 and come up with the 140 / 140 = 100 %

So then I would qualify for the HAMP, since I am not over 100 %

Under any circumsatnces, I could be wrong, this seems at my first glance to be yet another LOUSY TRICK for the servicers to pull and is yet another way to SCAM and SWINDLE more borrowers

How you may ask ? Well, the current market value / the current market selling value etc or whatever they want to call the value of our homes, will be MANIPULATED TO SERVE THE SERVICER

For example : I phoned Bank of America about 2 weeks ago and they told that I immediately qualified for their HARP / The REFINANCING program

They told me my home was worth 210,000 which was a total Blatant LIE

Most of the homes around me are selling from 108,000 to 140,000 MAX and the 140,000 is only for homes that have many upgrades and are in pristine condition ..

Bank of America lied to me, just so they could try and manipulate me into a REFI, with bad terms and more fees for themselves.

So I can only assume they will try and mess with everyone who has a Negative NPV and manipulate the borrowers with their own Bank of America OPINION of what a home is currently worth, in order to favor themselves and not allow the HAMP to take place, if they do not want any borrowers to get the Modifications -

SO BORROWERS BEWARE, when applying for HAMP - Make sure you have plenty of TRUE market Value selling price evidence for your home, so the Servicers and Investors will not be able to deny / disallow a modification, based on their own swindling opinions of what your home may or may not be currently worth..

Yet another loophole for the banks and yet another part of the puzzle to fully understand and make sure our piece of the puzzle fits and completes the modification puzzle and NOT their own swindling piece, which will deny a modification in their favor

There is so much to figure out and SADLY, all of us borrowers need to be one BIG step ahead of these bank, servicer, investor swindlers, or else we are one BIG step behind and they win and we will lose !!!!

Never Give up !

Thanks again ama125

Respectfully,

Thanks2u
 

CW California

LoanSafe Member
An interesting article of favors ? or Financial Institution Finagling, set uo to dethrone / remove and or scar politicians who are working against the banks and servicers or a bit of both - Either way, aint politics and backstabbing grand !

July 28, 2009 Testimony on ethics of Democratic Senators Christopher Dodd & Kent Conrad


RealClearPolitics - Politics - Jul 28, 2009 - Testimony: Sens. Conrad, Dodd told of VIP loans
"Both senators have said that at the time the mortgages were being written they didn't know they were getting unique deals from Countrywide, a company that lost billions of dollars on bad loans and since has been purchased by Bank of America."

Right................They didn't know. hahahahah
 

ama125

LoanSafe Member
An interesting article of favors ? or Financial Institution Finagling, set uo to dethrone / remove and or scar politicians who are working against the banks and servicers or a bit of both - Either way, aint politics and backstabbing grand !

July 28, 2009 Testimony on ethics of Democratic Senators Christopher Dodd & Kent Conrad


RealClearPolitics - Politics - Jul 28, 2009 - Testimony: Sens. Conrad, Dodd told of VIP loans
I did read about this and it made me laugh. How could anyone NOT believe they were getting special rates when it was clearly a VIP program dubbed "Friends of Angelo"? This is what others have been griping about...these senators who are supposedly on "our" side have been sleeping with the banks all along. I trust so few people these days!
 

THANKS2U

LoanSafe Member
I did read about this and it made me laugh. How could anyone NOT believe they were getting special rates when it was clearly a VIP program dubbed "Friends of Angelo"? This is what others have been griping about...these senators who are supposedly on "our" side have been sleeping with the banks all along. I trust so few people these days!
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Yep, Me as well..

Greed is a crazy thing, however, it is mostly LEGAL to be greedy and be greed driven.. Greed is not a criminal offense

However, ( SWINDLING GREED ) and ( DEFRAUDING GREED ) are ILLEGAL and the Banks, Servicers and Investors committed both types of Criminal Greed and continue to do so..

So yes, It is VERY Difficult to know who to trust, so we must trust oursleves first and foremost and trust what HAMP information is written into law and then tell the banks and servicers and investors what they are supposed to do for us according to the written law..

Do not expect the servicer or investor to obey the law, they will NOT obey the law, they prove that over and over !

These days I even tell my Dentist and My Medical Doctor what I need and will not let either do anything costing money, unless I research it first and decide for myself.

I have my dentist special order "Diamond Crown" Composite white filling material - No mercury silver stuff anymore - I tell my MD what blood tests to take, especially Vit D 25 Hydroxy... I started my colonoscopies at age 35 because I have a few friends that died from colon cancer before age 40 - I research the heck out of anything they say to me and I let them know what to do for me...

You just cannot trust anyone these days, at least when it comes to your physical and financial health !

There is just too much to lose for us common folk and too much for them, the supposed professionals, to gain financially, if we allow them to control us and tell us what is what, then we are screwed - NO WAY !

Same goes for polititians and banks and servicers - This is why we need to POST as many articles and updated links here as possible..

We need to research and find out the LAWFULLY WRITTEN truth and then tell them what the laws are and what they need to do for us, according to the law.

OK - So now I feel i must post my favorite healthy MD website, after all without our physical health, life and loan Modifications are not worth much www.mercola.com great info and free newsletter - I have no affiliation with Dr. Mercola in any way shape or form.. I am simply paying it forward, so we can all be as healthy as possible when this Mortgage nightmare is over --

Sincerely,

Thanks2u


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ama125

LoanSafe Member
So... If your NPV is positive, does any of it matter?

Thanks for all the research and ino!

Skipper
I've been googling like a mad woman on this question and have not found anything regarding a forbearance limit on a positive NPV result. There could always be some limit built into that NPV calculator and that might then cause a loan to result in a negative test result. Again, if only that darn test was made public!!!
 

ugh_2009

LoanSafe Member
There could always be some limit built into that NPV calculator and that might then cause a loan to result in a negative test result.
Yes, when the lender forbears more principle they get less interest back from the loan and so the NPV result goes down. If they forbear too much the NPV result will eventually go negative and the test will fail.
 

ama125

LoanSafe Member
ama125,

Can you please give us an example of how the NPV is caluclated to determine whether it's negative or positive? Thanks
I think I answered this for you on another thread, but if not, let me know and I'll respond to your question.
 

ama125

LoanSafe Member

Melanie702

LoanSafe Member
Just a quote from the article :

He also says there is money to be made from foreclosures by third parties. "These loans are being bought for 20 cents on the dollar. A $400,000 loan is costing you $80,000. You can foreclose on that at $150,000 and make money," he said.
 
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