Home Loans and Support

Is Bank of New York Mellon Trustee for certificate holders of your Loan?

Discussion in 'UNITE & FIGHT - Share Your Ideas on How Homeowners' started by hibiscus, Sep 19, 2011.

  1. hibiscus

    hibiscus LoanSafe Member

    I know how to track your loan to trust held by BONY MELLON
  2. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    Hi hibiscus - Welcome to Loansafe. I'm sure there are members here that would appreciate some step by step instructions as to how to track their loan to the trust held by BONY. Feel free to share what you know about the process so that it may help others. Keep in mind, members here are at all different levels in their computer skills. Please be as clear and concise as possible when detailing the step by step process.
  3. hibiscus

    hibiscus LoanSafe Member


    Type the following into your web browser:


    In search box select:

    1. All
    2. Issuer
    3. Type Original Lender in search box

    In my case the lender is Countrywide. This brought up all Trusts held by Bony. I search each looking for CWABS 2005-16,the Trust that holds my Promissory Note.

    After clicking on the Issuer, under Reports I selected download under the "LOANS" Report. There I was able to locate my loan number.

    I can't even tell you how I came upon this other than divine intervention. After looking up my Trust CWABS 2005-16 at the SEC website and reading the entire prospectus, I found that the "Loan Schedule" identifying the mortgage notes was not provided , other than a reference to Exhibit F.

    I have serious doubts that the loans securitized in this trust were ever endordesd and transferred as required by the PSA. Could this mean that these loans are voidable if they were held by CW and not transferred until BOFA took over? The cutoff date was March 2006.

    Another weird thing is that the Reports submitted to the Trusts for Jan 2006- June 2008 that CW shoould have been providing, were not submitted until Aug 2008 after BOFA took over. It seems this would violate the PSA as well.

    Could this be why BOFA has stalled mods, foreclosures, etc. Is this why Robo signers are needed?

    Any thoughts
  4. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    hibiscus - Thanks for posting the detailed instructions here. It will be of help to many here on loansafe.
    I definitely have some thoughts on this but need to get on the road for work. I will be back later this evening with my thoughts on the subject. In the meantime, hopefully others will chime in.
  5. Muddy

    Muddy LoanSafe Member

    I'm dense. What does "CWABS 2005-16" mean? It's the trust .... how do I find that part? I know my loan number, etc. My Countrywide Loan was transferred to BNY Mellon on 12-20-10. My original Countrywide Loan was dated July 22, 2005.

  6. hibiscus

    hibiscus LoanSafe Member

    Hi Muddy

    Did you receive a letter from BOFA stating that they were changing your loan over to another division on or around July 2011? On the third page it indicates that BNY Mellon is the Trustee (investor) immediately thereafter it gives the name of the trust followed by a date. Do you see that?

    Who is the current sevicer for your loan?
  7. hibiscus

    hibiscus LoanSafe Member


    I'm on pins and needles!
  8. fightforit

    fightforit LoanSafe Member

    There is a lot to learn. Stuff you will not find here. Did you google the trust info?
    Try to find cases where the trusts have filed suit against BNYM. Everyday new cases come up.
    Collect info. Keep it in a place easy to look back on. Copy anything that you think might pertain to your mortgage issue.
  9. Muddy

    Muddy LoanSafe Member

    I received a mortgage loan transfer disclosure notice dated 12-20-10. It says that my mortgage has been sold or transferred to The Bank of New York Mellon, N.A. on December 17, 2010. I don't see the name of a trust listed anywhere. BAC Home Loans is the servicer. It lists the Mortgage ID number.
  10. hibiscus

    hibiscus LoanSafe Member

    Hi Muddy!

    Have you gone to the county recorder's office and gotten copies of a the records for your home? Often you can look them up on the website to see the chain of title that has been recorded. If BOFA sold your loan as you state, it seems that they then would have been listed on your promissory note as the lender.

    I read a blog regarding a similar case, not knowing your history, I am uncertain how to direct you to finding the actual trust. This is the blog:


    Read through it and see if it relates to your situation.

    Also, have you sent BOFA a QWR. They would then have to disclose this information. I have recently sent one if you need help let me know.
  11. hibiscus

    hibiscus LoanSafe Member

  12. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    Hi hibiscus - Here's my take on the situation. Hope those pins & needles didn't hurt too much! lol

    There is no evidence to support the transfer of many of these loans ever occurred in compliance with the securitization documents, and applicable and Federal (REMIC) law. A securitized trust cannot take ownership of a loan through equity. Countrywide Home loans ceased all operations on March 8, 2008.

    BofA can not assign anything from a defunct entity. Yet, assignment of mortgages are being recorded all the time even long after Countrywide ceased all operations. So long as BofA is not held accountable, they will continue to do this. Plain & simple.

    I suspect many of these loans never made it into the trust to begin with since Countrywide was famous for rushing through paperwork at lightening speed all “in the name of GREED”. Once again, you can’t assign a loan into a trust once the trust has been closed. Many of these (original) notes have been either lost or destroyed & BofA must be pro-active is some way to protect their financial interest. Keep in mind, BofA can & will simply have a title company pull up copies of your signed documents & maybe even send them to you if you’re lucky. This DOES NOT mean they have the originals in their possession.

    I’ve read about loan mods going through and that is a great solution to the problem for BofA where previous missing paperwork is concerned. Now Once the homeowner signs documents with the bank, the loan gets re-instated (according to the new terms) & becomes a performing asset again with a new effective date. That process prevents people like us from probing into the matter too much. That’s the last thing BofA wants!

    Here’s another tidbit for you. In February 2011, former senior vice president of BONY pled guilty to a variety of Federal charges including money laundering & FRAUD. It’s a woman (I forget her name) but believe she was the “Patsy” that took the brunt of the wrongdoing on the part of BONY. Another key executive of BONY Robert Kelley stepped down last month (August) due to some differences in “management style”. BONY is in turmoil & is being closely watched. They are under investigation for the mis-handling of securitized mortgage loans.

    So as you can see it’s a very complex situation and the FRAUD runs real deep. It seems everyone in the process wants to point the finger in the other direction. Very little accountability & no one in the process is stepping up the plate & being transparent.
  13. hibiscus

    hibiscus LoanSafe Member


    You’re adorable! Actually, compared to the harpoon the bank has stuck through me, the pins and needles weren’t too bad. I just pull one out and start poking around for more info.

    I agree that the certificate holders cannot take ownership, since no one of them owns any one loan individually. Like you, I also believe that the Loans never made it to the trusts. As I noted above, the 2006- mid 2008 reports for CWABS 2005-16 were not submitted until August 2008. This would have had to be done by BOFA not Countrywide.

    That said, Countrywide declared bankruptcy. There is no evidence whatsoever that I can find that Countrywide was compliant with the PSA in reporting any loan schedules or performance to the trusts. Furthermore, another neon light indicator is that trusts are being sued for negligence in overseeing that the appropriate protocols were followed. In fact, I came across a newly filed amended complaint by Ambac, the monoline insurer for the certificates in several CWABS Trusts. Therein, Abmac speaks to the misrepresentations made by Countrywide and continued by BOFA. They seek repayment for the payouts made to investors for the defaulted loans, as they were paying P&I for non-performing loans. The question is how do you know if they were paying for your defaulted loan?


    This presents a very strong case for borrowers who face foreclosure because if investors were paid there is no default. I’m just saying. So, aside from the fact that the notes were not properly endorsed according to the PSA, breaking the chain of title leaves the enormous question; WHO OWNS THE DAMN NOTE?

    How are banks even able to foreclose? From my experience, the only kind of transfer that exists is the substitution of trustee. Nowhere has BOFA shown evidence of the following:

    First, “certificate purchasers” are the banks themselves (security underwriters), and they only purchase a “pro-rata” share to a “pool” of cash flows —- that is all — they are NOT the mortgagee/creditor—the trust is assigned the loans from which the pass-through cash flows are derived—it is the DEPOSITOR (subsidiary), that owns the collections rights (they are not mortgage loans), and the Trust itself. The “certificate purchasers” (the bank security underwriters (another subsidiary) themselves) then repackage the certificates to “pro-rata” cash flows into CDOs that are marketed to security investors — who are also never the mortgagee/creditor. According to all PSAs — there must be a documented valid sale of the “loans”, with supporting Mortgage Schedule to the Depositor in order for any Trust to be valid. There was never any valid sale of loans — and the loans were never actually loans — they were collection rights.
    Oh, Ambac is also seeking a court order for BOFA to repurchase these non-conforming loans.

    This leaves me with several questions: 1. Why aren’t foreclosures more scrutinized by the system? (ie no more non-judicial foreclosures) 2. Don’t these fraudulent actions by the banks open a wide open door for Quiet Title? 3. What will it take to prove that your loan was not securitized?

    Surely BOFA has all of Countrywide’s recorders. Ambac states in their suit that they poured over the loans and that from the beginning the majority of the loans did not meet the agreements. They have evidence that Countrywide agreed to repurchase, substitute loans, and cure the breaches for the non-conforming loans, which they never did. Since BOFA accepted all the good and bad from Countrywide’s actions through their merger, it stands to reason that this information should be transparent to those fighting for their homes. Are these issues the OCC would investigate? Can one inquire which loans were subject to insurance claims?

    Unraveling the information helps, but how do you use it to secure your own personal interests in your mortgage?

    One last thing, Muddy above states that BOFA sent a notice that his/her loan was sold/transferred to BNY Mellon. Does BNY Mellon purchase individual loans? Any sale would need to be recorded in land records, right?
  14. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    Because (most especially the non-judicial states do not monitor the process through the courts. They are handled by way of trustee sale. It is a lack of regulations, transparency & greed that got us into the mess & leaves the homeowner with so many unanswered questions.
    I think the entire system is corrupt! All the so called regulators are in bed with the banks. Heck, even the OCC was considering releasing BofA of any future criminal prosecution.
    It absolutely does, however; the banks know the average homeowner DOES NOT have the funds to take a quiet title action to court & follow though. Their attorney will certainly rack up lots of billable hours which will in turn cost the homeowner if they don't win. That in addition to the fees it may cost for the homeowners attorney. I was told it's highly possible to get in pretty deep 30-50k in attorney fees with still no guarantee of a win.
    I took a stab at sending a letter to BofA that touched upon this issue along with many others. (See item C below). I was certain to ask questions that they either do not have answers to or even if they did, will not tell me because they wouldn't want to incriminate themselves in writing. Essentially I asked the following of BofA:

    Please provide a written affidavit under penalty of perjury from someone who has first hand knowledge of the facts that stipulates the following:

    a) The debt is valid and no discharge has occurred on this debt.
    b) No tax credit was received for the discharge (if any) of the debt.
    c) The debt has not been paid in full when the loan was securitized.
    d) That Bank of America, N.A. has the authority to collect the debt on behalf of
    (CWALT 2007-2B) G2.

    Please also provide written proof from (CWALT 2007-2B) G2 that includes our loan number that gives your company the authority to collect the debt on their behalf.

    That would have been a good question for me to include in my letter. Because once again, BofA is not going to be transparent with this information. Even if there's no PMI on your loan, the bank will still have it insured. As far as I'm concerned, BofA is double dipping on a lot of these loans. I just don't know how to get that concrete evidence.

    By law, only the holder of the note can foreclose. If the debt servicer does not hold the note and you make payments or give-back your home to the debt servicer and then the TRUE holder of the note shows up, you are still liable for the note.

    The only party that has a right to foreclose is the REIT. The real party of interest is the trust - a non taxable entity that can not own anything including property!

    Here is another great resource of the 530 trusts included in the BofA settlement with investors. This info was posted by loansafe member Stephanies. Here's what she posted:

    Time for me to hit the sack. Goodnite!
  15. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    1. Why aren’t foreclosures more scrutinized by the system? (ie no more non-judicial foreclosures)

    I think the entire system is corrupt! All the so called regulators are in bed with the banks. Heck, even the OCC was considering releasing BofA of any future criminal prosecution.

    I need to correct my statement above as it was very late last night when I posted & was overtired. I meant to say the State Attorney Generals are considering releasing BofA of any future criminal prosecution.
  16. hibiscus

    hibiscus LoanSafe Member

    Thank you for the clarification. I too feel that corruption is steering this ship. My documents were notarized by the same notary as yours K mercado formally K cisneros. Did you find anything new about this? I spoke with the CA sec of state's office. They said that because the notary initialed the Sub of Trustee doc and dated the acknowledgement I day after the date of mers robosigner's signature that the document is invalid. Is it better to keep this in back pocket or bring it out in the open?
  17. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    I'd hang on to that in your back pocket for now. It could prove to be a tremendous delay tactic that could certainly work to your advantage. In fact, timing wise, I would wait until after the notice of trustee sale has been filed, then I would pull that rabbit out of your hat. You can challenge the trustee with that information & they may have to start the process all over again. That will buy you a minimum of another 4 months. Here's some valuable new info I posted about Notaries - just began the thread this evening (just in case you haven't read it yet)!


    P.S. Do you have T. Sevillano on your documents as well?
  18. hibiscus

    hibiscus LoanSafe Member

    Funny thing I was reading it as you were writing this! We had a moment of telepathy or something. I seriously doubt that she is signing herself. Thanks for your thoughts on this. It's mind boggling how far they'll go.

    With regard to filing a claim against the bond, is that something you would pursue now or later?
  19. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    The minute I am 100% certain, the document contains forged signatures, whether it be hers or T. Sevillano's, I will file a claim against the bond. For all I know, my documents could have "real authentic" signatures & other peoples out there may not. The best way I will feel comfortable as whether the ones I have are authentic or not is to compare signatures with the one she signed on her bond. I have to have solid PROOF in my hot little hands.

    So far, all I have is a sneaking suspicion. I found Tina Sevillano (who signs on behalf of MERS, BofA, & Recontrust). Found her on LinkedIn Tina Sevillano | LinkedIn
  20. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    Thanks for taking the time to read that post. I've been wanting to start that thread for quite some time but needed to get it in an easy to follow organized fashion.

    I never did address your question on:
    The truth is, I'm navigating new territory & am just trying to figure it out as I go. For instance, I've been thinking for an entire year, there must be some way to secure solid proof if my documents contain valid signatures or not. It wasn't until the past 60 days, it all started coming together & one idea led to another ie; getting a hold of a notary list, getting an address of a notary, figuring out what the laws they are governed by, reading the handbook, figuring out how to get a copy of their bond etc etc.

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