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I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies

Discussion in 'Moe's Videos, Views & Theories on the Mortgage & H' started by Moe, Jan 9, 2008.

  1. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    [​IMG]“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
    3rd president of US (1743 - 1826) These are the words from one of the most influential presidents to ever serve “our country” in the White House and one of the authors of the declaration of independence.

    From wikipedia;
    Thomas Jefferson (13 April 17434 July 1826)[1] was the third President of the United States (1801–1809), the principal author of the Declaration of Independence (1776), and one of the most influential Founding Fathers for his promotion of the ideals of Republicanism in the United States. Major events during his presidency include the Louisiana Purchase (1803) and the Lewis and Clark Expedition (1804–1806).​
    It’s not as if these words came from some crazy full of conspiracy theories. No! These are the words from what I feel, the best president ever, and one of the founding fathers of this great country.
    Can it be true, that two centuries later, that which Jefferson feared, the banks controlling the American people, is finally taking place?

    More from Thomas Jefferson;
    “The art and mystery of banks… is established on the principle that ‘private debts are a public blessing.’ That the evidences of those private debts, called bank notes, become active capital, and aliment the whole commerce, manufactures, and agriculture of the United States. Here are a set of people, for instance, who have bestowed on us the great blessing of running in our debt about two hundred millions of dollars, without our knowing who they are, where they are, or what property they have to pay this debt when called on; nay, who have made us so sensible of the blessings of letting them run in our debt, that we have exempted them by law from the repayment of these debts beyond a give proportion (generally estimated at one-third). And to fill up the measure of blessing, instead of paying, they receive an interest on what they owe from those to whom they owe; for all the notes, or evidences of what they owe, which we see in circulation, have been lent to somebody on an interest which is levied again on us through the medium of commerce. And they are so ready still to deal out their liberalities to us, that they are now willing to let themselves run in our debt ninety millions more, on our paying them the same premium of six or eight per cent interest, and on the same legal exemption from the repayment of more than thirty millions of the debt, when it shall be called for.” –Thomas Jefferson to John W. Eppes, 1813. ME 13:420
    Please reread this Jefferson quote and please take the time to think about what he is saying. “Here are a set of people, for instance, who have bestowed on us the great blessing of running in our debt about two hundred millions of dollars, without our knowing who they are, where they are, or what property they have to pay this debt when called on.”

    The facts are that millions of homeowners are facing foreclosure and out of these millions of people, very few ever contest their foreclosure, let alone show up in court. Many people think that since their lender is foreclosing on them, they owe the money and the bank should to take their home. “Private debt is a public blessing”, right?

    But what if you found out that the entity trying to foreclose on you, in fact did not own your mortgage and when you challenge to see if they do in fact own the mortgage, you discover, that they can’t “prove” that they do in fact own the mortgage “legally” by producing the original note that you signed? What if they were acting on a perceived natural right to take outright ownership of your home? Do you think that you should let them?

    Attorneys are expensive and many require an up front retainer for thousands of dollars and then they take 35-40% of whatever the settlement is. Many people simply do not have that kind of money and they feel there is no way that they can represent themselves pro se or pro per in a foreclosure action.

    The facts are you can contest your foreclosure, if you have the tools and knowledge where you can represent yourself and either significantly prolong your time in your home or quite possibly win what might possibly be an unlawful foreclosure action.

    Friends, we are at a point where it is becoming obvious that the out-of-control private debt is becoming a public hazard. How many tent cities need to spring up around the country before this is realized? Jefferson was right, and the banking system uses the red herring argument of “prodigal borrowers” to deflect attention from their own prodigal ways.

    Think about the gentleman from Ohio, Richard Davet , who had fought Bank of America for 11 years all by himself against a 6 man lawyer team from a high power law firm. 11 years!
    The mortgage company that filed the suit, then NationsBanc Mortgage Corp., had so much trouble with the case that four years into it they brought in lawyers from Jones Day.​

    Such a problem can occur when mortgages are turned into securities and sold to investors. The companies involved in the transaction may not have checked that each mortgage was legally transferred, or “assigned,” to the new owners. In essence, the originating lender continued to legally own the mortgage — and would thus need to be the plaintiff in a foreclosure suit. In Mr. Davet’s case, however, the mortgage, which was not securitized, changed hands multiple times and wasn’t actually owned by NationsBanc until three years after the company filed suit.​

    Other judges have since followed Judge Boyko’s lead. The Ohio attorney general has asked numerous judges to dismiss or delay foreclosures based on similar grounds.​
    Why were they having so much trouble with this one man army form Ohio? Was it because he was so smart that he should have been a rocket scientist or was it because he had the guts to fight back against these guys and make them prove they had the right to take his home?

    What about Joseph Lents from Florida. He has been fighting Washington Mutual for 5 years from what he believes to be a 100% unlawful foreclosure action;
    If car dealers can keep track of titles, banks can track promissory notes, Joseph Lents says.​

    Somebody has been trying to foreclose on Joseph Lents’ Boca Raton home for five years. So far, they have been unsuccessful because he has legally fought them every step of the way.​

    The original lender, or the assignee, seems unable to produce the promissory note and prove it has the right to foreclose. In an era when Wall Street has sliced and diced mortgages to package them as securities, that could turn into a broader issue.​

    “I probably have been to the Palm Beach County courthouse 100 times or more over the last five years, just to observe,” Lents said. “In 99 percent of the residential foreclosure cases, plaintiffs are asking the court to accept a promissory note copy as the original because it is presumed lost.”​
    I spoke with both Richard Davet and Joseph Lents this past Sunday and let me tell you, these are two gentleman that I have a tremendous amount of respect for and would consider them heroes in my book.
    Think about what Mt. Lents has said here. ““In 99 percent of the residential foreclosure cases, plaintiffs are asking the court to accept a promissory note copy as the original because it is presumed lost.”

    When I spoke to Mr. Lents, he said that he regularly goes to court to just watch the foreclosure proceedings to see what’s going on. Almost 100% of the time they do not have the original note and the homeowner does not contesting this. He even said the judges know this, yet, when the defendant does not appear for a hearing, then they have to award a default judgement to the plaintiff (the bank). This is blatant railroading by the banks.

    So it’s not as if the banks usually win by proving beyond a reasonable doubt that they do in fact own the mortgage and have the right to foreclose. No–they win by default because the other party (the homeowner) didn’t even bother showing up to court, let alone file a simple defense.

    Is something terribly wrong here? You bet, and these two guys were smart enough to realize that their foreclosure action was illegal.
    Hell, they know they owe the money. But as Mr. Joseph Lents told me on a Sunday afternoon, “Moe, I know I owe the money and I told the judge this, but I also told him that I don’t think I owe it to them (Bank of America) and since they cannot prove they have the right to foreclose on my home, why should I let them take my house? They agreed to settle, I make great money, this is not about money now, it’s about principle and they do not have the right to do what they are doing. So, I will fight.”
    Now, those are words from a true patriot and a man that is fighting for his rights!

    What about the honorable Judge Boyko;
    Apparently Deutsche bank submitted several affidavits that claim that Deutsche was in fact the owner of the mortgage note, but none of these affidavits mention assignment or trust or successor interest.​

    Thus, the Judge ruled that in every instance, these submissions create a “conflict” and they “do not satisfy” the burden of demonstrating at the time of filing the complaint, that Deutsche Bank was in fact the “legal” note holder.​

    How about the honorable Judge Rose?;
    “This court is well aware that entities who hold valid notes are entitled to receive timely payments in accordance with the notes. And, if they do not receive timely payments, the entities have the right to seek foreclosure on the accompanying mortgages.​

    However, with regard the enforcement of standing and other jurisdictional requirements pertaining to foreclosure actions, this court is in full agreement with Judge Christopher A Boyko for the Northern District of Ohio who recently stressed, ‘That the judicial integrity of the United States District Court is ‘Priceless.”​

    Hamilton County Common Pleas Judge Steven E. Martin said in a letter to Wells Fargo’s lawyer.
    The foreclosure lawsuit was filed before Wells Fargo owned the mortgage - thus, the suit was premature.​

    Martin then ordered the Wells Fargo law firm, The Law Offices of John D. Clunk, that the law firm must file proof that its clients actually own the mortgages before filing any new foreclosure actions in Hamilton County​
    Ohio State District Judge Kathleen Mc Donald O’Malley dismissed 32 more foreclosures for lack of “documentation”. Read the ruling /files/89778-78388/Deutsche_Bank_Foreclosure_Ruling.pdf”>Deutsche Ruling.

    April Charney a legal aid lawyer and foreclosure defense pioneer recently said to us;
    This court order is what I have been saying in my cases. This is rampant fraud on every court in America or nonjudicial foreclosure fraud where the securitized trusts are filing foreclosures when they never own/hold the mortgage loan at the commencement of the foreclosure.

    That means that the loans are clearly in default at the time of any eventual transfer of the ownership of the mortgage loans to the trusts. This means that the loans are being held by the originating lenders after the alleged “sale” to the trust despite what it says per the pooling and servicing agreements and despite what the securities laws require.

    This also means that many securitized trusts don’t really, legally own these bad loans.

    In my cases, many of the trusts try to argue equitable assignment that predates the filing of the foreclosure, but a securitized trust cannot take an equitable assignment of a mortgage loan. It also means that the securitized trusts own nothing.
    These cases and recent rulings are by no means coincidence, but an emerging trend of illegal foreclosure actions, fraud on the courts and fraud on the American people.

    Will the American people make a stand against these lenders and servicers that are slowly and deliberately taking our homes from us? Or will we continue to do just what they expect and want us to do (and what we have been doing for the past year): nothing, as over 1 million people (Americans) have suffered silently and fallen into foreclosure without raising a simple defense or even showing up to their court hearing.
    What if the American homeowner started fighting back?

    1,000… 10,000… 100,000 homeowners, all going to court to make these banks prove that they have the right to foreclose and prove that these mortgages they sold consumers are in fact legal. It would make a HUGE difference. Could we overwhelm these deep pocketed lenders with a grass roots effort to fight every one of these foreclosures?

    I think we can, but it will take tens of thousands of people to join the fight.

    Why should you take up the fight?
    • How do you know if your foreclosure is valid or even legal, if you never show up in court or answer your lenders complaint?
    • What if you could buy time? 1 year, 2 years to work out your mortgage and maybe settle to terms that are favorable for you?
    • What if you could live payment free for quite sometime by just filing motions and answers you have a right to?
    • Is your mortgage lawful? What if there were Truth in Lending Act and RESPA violations and you could use these violations to negotiate a loan workout or loan modification?
    These lenders have sold you what is essentially a defective credit instrument. Snake oil or fools gold. Now, they are ruining your life by destroying your credit and taking your home as the result of a shady loan they sold you in the first place!

    They made thousands of dollars from you and now they are done with you. So, now your’re kicked to the curb and called a “deadbeat” or “freeloader.”

    This is theft and if you do not see that, well, then, let them take your home and be like the other million people who did nothing (just like the banks want) and left their homes. Now, these banks are owning more and more real estate, on top of everything else.

    All the while their CEO’s cash in hundreds of millions of dollars as people go homeless. And to top it off, instead of homeowners getting help, these lenders get billions of dollars in bail out money from the Government, other banking institutions and now, powerful foreign investors are buying stakes in these institutions to keep them afloat.

    So soon it will be foreign banks and individuals controlling the American people, a twist I do not think Mr. Jefferson envisioned in his writings.
    We need to start a revolution against these banks and fight back for our rights.

    Can a man like Thomas Jefferson, a founding father of our country and author of our constitution be wrong about the banks and their intentions? Was he just some wacko conspiracy theorist, or a man that wasn’t afraid to tell the truth and stand up against the powerful banks that threatened then and now rule of our nation?

    I’ll end this from some more words TJ:
    “Everything predicted by the enemies of banks, in the beginning, is now coming to pass. We are to be ruined now by the deluge of bank paper. It is cruel that such revolutions in private fortunes should be at the mercy of avaricious adventurers, who, instead of employing their capital, if any they have, in manufactures, commerce, and other useful pursuits, make it an instrument to burden all the interchanges of property with their swindling profits, profits which are the price of no useful industry of theirs.” –Thomas Jefferson to Thomas Cooper, 1814. ME 14:61​

    “Certainly no nation ever before abandoned to the avarice and jugglings of private individuals to regulate according to their own interests, the quantum of circulating medium for the nation — to inflate, by deluges of paper, the nominal prices of property, and then to buy up that property at 1s. in the pound, having first withdrawn the floating medium which might endanger a competition in purchase. Yet this is what has been done, and will be done, unless stayed by the protecting hand of the legislature. The evil has been produced by the error of their sanction of this ruinous machinery of banks; and justice, wisdom, duty, all require that they should interpose and arrest it before the schemes of plunder and spoilation desolate the country.” –Thomas Jefferson to William C. Rives, 1819. ME 15:232​

  2. charile2000

    charile2000 LoanSafe Member

    I agree with everything you just said, but please tell me what are my chances when every lawyer in northern virginia is telling me that I am in a wrong state to fight. Courts here in VA, Fairfax county are supporting the banks. What should I do? I want to fight, but what if the system is against me too?
  3. goldie

    goldie LoanSafe Member

    Go visit livinglies wordpress and there's a section where you can get an attorney recommendation or you can look at the list they have of "lawyers who get it".

    I believe Moe is right here too about the banks.

    Its especially glaring with their trying to get HR 3808 passed in light of all the document fraud that is gaining public attention. All of the senate voted unanimously to pass it. Obama hasn't signed it yet, though.
  4. Spectrum

    Spectrum LoanSafe Member

    All should try and make the effort to either email or call WH to protest the givaway that HR 3808 represents.
  5. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    Who has the will and wherewithal to fight? Who is willing to stand up when they are being pushed down? We are here, neck deep in the homeowner great depression and I personally do not see too many people willing or able to fight back. It is sad my friends, but it is true.

    I wrote many of my posts long before all the other bloggers, news and mainstream even caught on to all this. I was doing this before living lies, martin andelman and all the others. Look at this post, over 3,000 views on words that are as true as can be and now, the media is catching on.

    Yet, here I sit, a man who predicted this all with you all talking about what I have been saying for years.

    Talk about full circle. God help us all......
  6. broke Tex

    broke Tex LoanSafe Member

  7. charile2000

    charile2000 LoanSafe Member

    I am ready to fight!

    First of all I am so proud of Obama for refusing to sign the bill, my vote hasnt gone to waste for once.
    As for the post about fighting back, I wanted to share my thoughts. Over the weekend I spent a lot of time thinking, thinking about the worse that it could happen, about my dogs and would I be able to go somewhere that they could have a space or even be allowed, you get my point, I thought about everything neagtive and then I realized that I will and can figure them all out, I am going to be ok as long as I am proud of me. The only way for me to be proud is to fight with everything I got, and as matter of fact I have emailed my senators which by the way refused to help me with my case and told them that they can count on me not voting for them if they support this bill.
    Thanks for all your help, and your words and help made me stand up so do not be disappointed and keep going please.
    I am a rainmaker, and if I am not scared anymore. I am going to be such a pain in an ass that they wish they had never met me...
  8. charile2000

    charile2000 LoanSafe Member

    Hi Moe,

    I was wondering if you have heard anything about really good lawyers in northern virginia? I have the list of the lawyers who get it, but I wanted to know your feedback based on seeing thousands of posts. Also, do you think that one should have a BK Lawyer as well besides the Defense Lawyer?
  9. SomeGaveAll

    SomeGaveAll LoanSafe Member

    Wow MOE, what a post !!
    Its absolutely dead on! These banks have demoralized our nation and through willing participation of much of our house/senate over many years have been permitted to bankrupt us all. Most people feel like there is nothing they can do, the banks have all the resource, the lawyers the everything. Most people feel that if they owe a debt, it should be repaid and if they cannot, willfully give up their property without a thought. Which is what the banks count on, our common thought of right/wrong. What we don't understand is that by not enforcing them to prove their "right" to such claim, we are in effect allowing these actions to be taken, and as such can expect more "liberties" to be used by the banks in their pursuit of property.

    I dont know what I can do. Ive been reading alot since 2009 and admit at times I feel completely lost in this maize. I know what they've done is wrong, but there are so many variations that it complicates clear follow through. Too bad our country feels that these entities are to BIG to fail, which is what continually supports their unethical practice. Please continue to inspire us, if you help 1 or a 100,000 it is the right thing and thank you for your effort.
  10. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    @ Charlie - I do a lot of my work on my own. My research, words and thoughts are just from studying the past, laws and working with you all for many years now. In the beginning, I did know some lawyers, but later distanced myself because I didn't like what I saw. I'd say Max O Gardner si one and if not the best out there. I would assume that any lawyer who comes out of his BK bootcamps are good. April Charney is great. Nathan Fransen and Paul Molinaro are good as well.

    @ somegaveall - Thanks for your input and such kind words. Glad to have you on board here.

    The reason this happens is because each one of you willfully signed a mortgage contract and if each one of you was legally harmed, you would each have to file your own claims under the rule of law and have the courts decide. This is all contract law and until fraud or laws are proven to be broken, it is the homeowner under the eyes of the law who is violating a contract and thus deserves whatever the law says. The laws says, kick them out if you do not pay.

    Most everything that was done by the bankers was done within the law and they used these laws to make lots of money.

    We live in world that we humans still somewhat prey on one another. It is now done via marketing, sales, commercialism and materialism. Most Corporations operate under a form of Social Darwinism is a term used for various late nineteenth century ideologies which, while often contradictory, exploited ideas of survival of the fittest. It is Business Darwinism and you, the consumer is the prey or should I say willing prey.

    May of the rich or elite think this:

    They key here is that the prey can avoid the corporate creatures looking to prey on him if he or she is educated. So, with that said, this last year of research and education is probably some of the best real world that you have got thus far. If you had done that before signing the mortgage, you may have never signed it.

    Our lives are really like this from the moment we wake up, but most of us tend to live in material illusions and fear based blindness that causes us not to see that which is so EVIDENT.
  11. SomeGaveAll

    SomeGaveAll LoanSafe Member

    Your right !!! If I had known then, I wouldnt have! Or if I did, I would have used a local bank with community investment and interest. I have seen many of my collagues obtain VERY favorable workouts with their local institutions without all the games.

    I would have rather, saved my money continually and paid for our "things" of necessity .. a home, a car, etc. Rather then be wrangled into a chess game of which I have become a willing participant via my mortgage. We have all lived in the pretence of , get a job, establish credit, buy a home, furnish it , remodel it , buy a car , go on vacation, lavish christmas .. etc .. then refinance, pay it down, execute a HELOC .. vicious cycle if we really pay attention! Unfortunately it has taken such a default economy to bring us back to the realities of such. Im just hoping if nothing else, that it will empower the future for us all.
  12. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    We live and we learn. This is a new world that is for sure. Nothing will ever be the same in the next 5-10 years.
  13. Spectrum

    Spectrum LoanSafe Member


    Just wanted to throw this back out there. The real crisis was created when the banks were given the power to make their own money, IE securitization/bonds and then track it themselves (MERS). In my opinion these two tenents need to be reversed and fovever returned to the State to control. Until then, we are just going to have more of the same until the whole country is bankrupt.
  14. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi All
    let's get this tread up and running again.
    I think what MOE, is saying is, we need to challenge every piece of documentation the servicer/the lender/the investor or whoever puts in front of us. If you/homeowner reside in a judicial state it is or could be as simple as going to court. If you are in a non judicial state then you are faced with another set of problems, I will try to address those problems and give some suggestions later in this tread..
    First, most folks facing foreclosure have never had to deal with the court system. The system is very intimidating. Especially if you owe the debt, Lets face it, when we are late on our credit card and the phone rings, we tend not to pick up the phone. So standing in front of a judge is way out of the question. The banksters are very aware of our intimidation. Hence we need knowledge to over come our intimidation. It's an old saying but yes knowledge is powerful.
    If you are facing foreclosure for whatever reason. Do Not hide your head in the sand. Learn your court procedure's. Challenge your accuser(s). Show up in court. Make the bank prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that they own the note 100%.

    Moe mentioned some fighters, Richard Davet, Joseph Lents. There is also another warrior from Florida a lady name Patsy Campbell. She has been fightin foreclosure for 25 years. She is now 74 YO. No Mortgage payment for 25 year. These folks are no smarter, then you or I. They just have the courage of there convictions. They learned the system, they wrote letters, they went to court, they challenged there accuser. They still occupy there homes, and I am sure they walk around with there heads held HIGH. You could do the same. Results may vary dependending on how meticulous your accuser keeps records. Challenge, Challenge, challenge, make them prove.
    Now non judicial states are tougher they require more due diligence any a need for a savvy attorney.
    An attorney that will challenge jurisdiction an file restraining orders against the lender and the sheriff department etc. If your in a non judicial state, you must look to get the hearing in a Federal court jurisdication where you may be able to challenge the due process. Or lack thereof. No case law to support my idea but just something to thing about for folks in non judicial states. The idea is to get your case in court. A savvy attorney is needed. But still, don't give up.. Challenge, challenge,challenge.
    Thanks to all. Keep fighting.

    NJ- 6 months
  15. Jeffrey L. Shurtliff

    Jeffrey L. Shurtliff LoanSafe Member

    I agree and I will report that the realtor that contacts you after the sale of your house, contacted me. He offered me keys for cash. I said how much. He said up to $3000. I said is it cash or do you want me to sign more docs. He told me he would have to have me sign some and I said no way. I will not sign another fraudulent document purporting to give me $3000. I told him no and he said he would turn it over to the attorneys. I said go ahead. Then I asked him if he went into the yard or trespassed. He said he did not he just went to the front door. I said Ok I am enforcing No Trespass on the property and I have a title on the window. Do not come there again!
    On the banks taking over. Yeppers, Moe is right. United Banks of America.
  16. freedomwon

    freedomwon LoanSafe Member

    Jeffrey - Is $3,000 approx 1% of what is owed on the 1st mortgage? That was standard for what others on loan safe had reported in the past. It’s been a while since anyone has confirmed a “cash for keys†offer. Good for you to decline. God only knows what Wells may have slipped into the fine print.

    Do you have an alarm system turned on there at the house? Wouldn’t that be a beautiful thing if a locksmith comes to change the locks & an alarm goes off? Ok. Maybe I’m having a sinister fantasy moment here. After everything you’ve been through, it would be great to “nail the banksters†or their hired help with some intimidation. It will make them think twice about going to the next house on their list.

    After all the banks have used psychological warfare against the American People. Now it’s our turn! As Acesful put it, challenge, challenge, challenge!
  17. Jeffrey L. Shurtliff

    Jeffrey L. Shurtliff LoanSafe Member

    I am due more than three thousand those banksters can kiss my aaassss
  18. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi All
    Jeffrey, Good for you on standing ground an not accepting there bribe money. Keep up the fight.
    All the best

    Nj- 6 months
  19. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    Hi All

    In the next couple weeks. I intent to go down to my local county court and sit in on a few Foreclosure hearings.
    I want to get a feel for what the judge is looking for in terms of proper legal validation. If the banks are submitting replaced promosary
    notes as the real notes etc.
    It should be a learning experience.
    NJ-7 months
  20. acesfull

    acesfull LoanSafe Member

    bumping, to get more great input from the great minds here on LS.
    Best regards,
    nj-7 months

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"Hello Moe, I just wanted to tell you, your website has saved my life (literally), I stumbled on your site in the middle of losing my home, I was able to network with people going through the same thing as I am. I didn't feel alone anymore, I have tried to give back and counsel those that haven't walked in my shoes yet. We hear so much about what is wrong with America, I just wanted you to know, you are whats "right" with America."

Nina Mitchell
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