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Green Tree Servicing, LLC - Mortgage Fraud?

Discussion in 'Report Mortgage Fraud & Predatory Lending' started by RStemler, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. RStemler

    RStemler LoanSafe Member

    I was very excited to pay off our HELOC last month (2/12) and checked my balance 2/16 to see $17.15 remaining. I requested a payoff amount and shocked to find it was $13,445.19! When I called customer service they stated that this was additional interest due from the previous holder. Green Tree is alleging 13,428.04 is due from additional interest from GMAC under the heading "Corporate Advance Balance". Going back to check over the paperwork I now see this number was present on all my previous statements, I just never noticed it before. Even running the numbers in my head I could see that this amount is above the interest due even if I had never made a payment. Normally I would write this off as an accounting error and expect a quick repair; however with Green Tree's dubious reputation I am very concerned.

    This mortgage was purchased from GMAC by Green Tree ~Oct 09 with 7,266.10k in the balance. The original amount was 35k secured on June 06 (30yr fixed at 8.4% - no prepayment penalties). According to GMAC, which I also have my primary mortgage with, there was no additional interest and the balance transferred was 7,266.10 (confirmed this with three people at GMAC). It has been over 2 weeks and I still have not received documentation from Green Tree showing proof of this balance. GMAC provided documentation in 3 business days. During the course of the loan I have always paid early, paid extra, and have excellent credit. No late or missed payments. I checked my credit report (2/17) to ensure this was secure and found no negative reports.
    I faxed a written request to Green Tree for an itemized account of this additional balance and told it would take 3-5 days for a response, then 7-10, and now 30 days. When I confronted them with the information that GMAC stated there was no additional balance I was told that I was held by this mortgage until 2036 and still had interest due. Unfortunately I am unable to speak with anyone beyond customer service and cannot get this issue escalated. When I asked what to do about my next monthly payment (due 3/15) I was instructed to send in the full amount.
    I have filed a complaint with FTC, WI DFI, the IL and MN AG's offices, congressman, and in preliminary talks with an attorney to ensure security. I have also notified our local news offices as well as the news agencies near Green Tree's corporate offices. I have also contacted an editor at Kiplinger's and currently waiting for the investigations to proceed.
    I have researched several consumer affairs sites and see several people with similar reports of misapplied payments, missing or lost payments, and other questionable processes.

    Any advice would be very helpful at this point. I will continue to post updates and hope to report a resolution soon.
  2. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    Hello and welcome to LoanSafe!

    This is quite typical in the accounting practices of mortgage servicers. These fees add up and often it is hard to decipher what fee is which. In most cases, these fees seem erroneous at best and more akin to fraud for financial gain. However, this practice appears to be allowed or there is just every little recourse above and beyond what you are currently doing.

    Have you tried writing a Qualified Written Request?

    Qualified Written Request | Loans - Credit - Debt - LoanSafe.org

  3. RStemler

    RStemler LoanSafe Member

    Thanks Moe for the quick reply and for this amazing site! I've been scouring over the stickies and applicable threads.

    I sent the QWR on 2/16, both by fax and registered mail. They have received this and the account is in review. WI DFI sent the complaint notification (2/24) stating they have 15 days to provide documentation to their offices.

    What is shocking to me is that the paperwork from GMAC Sept. 09 states my balance of 7k with no additional fees or interest and then mysteriously during the transfer Green Tree adds 13.4k in additional interest. I was never notified about any delinquent payments, fees, etc. and reviewing my bank account as well as GMAC's documentation this is verified - all payments were applied well before the due date. Is it typical for mortgage servicers to list fees and interest together?

    I am concerned with what to do about this month's payment. I have not received a statement, however per Green Tree I am expected to pay the standard 266.65.

    I also have to mention the excellent customer service of both Chase and GMAC. Both have provided all paperwork I requested incredibly fast - 3 business days in both cases.
  4. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    Sure, my pleasure ;) I am glad you enjoy the site. Please let others know who may need some help to come here.

    Yes, they usually do not itemize this stuff for a reason.

    You are in a difficult spot here. If they play hardball, all you can do is hire a lawyer and fight. It may be one of those issues or mysteries that the only way to get further evidence or findings is to sue it out of them. This is where these guys always have an upper hand.

    Wow, you are one of the few and proud. This is highly unusual, but a great sign you have some good channels at these banks and also that you are good at this.
  5. RStemler

    RStemler LoanSafe Member

    This situation keeps getting stranger. I received my statement yesterday and the necessary payment is blank. I called customer service to check on this and they confirmed it, however they are still claiming the balance of 13.4k. She stated the review should be complete next week and to call next Wednesday. Of course this is getting dangerously close to the bill due date.
  6. RStemler

    RStemler LoanSafe Member

    I may have made a huge error. What I thought was a 30 year is in fact a 15 year balloon note. I have not reviewed the mortgage paperwork since the date we signed. The reason I had assumed the 30 year fixed is due to GMAC's website.

    Not being familiar with balloons I am unsure if this situation is any different. Per the conditions of the loan 27k would be due on the 180th payment. If I prepay prior to this am I responsible to pay the balloon? Also, reviewing WI assembly bill 792 (428.203) balloon payments are prohibited, however I'm not sure what this means for me if anything. Hoping tomorrow's discussion with the AG resolves this.

    Reviewing the payments I have paid ~45k, which correlates to 8.4%. If I was to pay the additional interest balance this would come to ~20% interest.

    Is this my error or would this fall under predatory lending?

    I did receive paperwork from Green Tree, however it is the records of payments I made over the term of the loan and there is no explanation of the added interest or where this originated from.
  7. RStemler

    RStemler LoanSafe Member

    Update: Green Tree provided a copy of the mortgage agreement and payment history to the WI AG office and they are conducting a review this week. Hopefully I will hear something soon. Does an AG office review count as arbitration or will I be responsible pursuing legal action?

    I am also noticing that there is a distinct difference between the verbal and written explanation of this additional balance and increasingly becomming aware that Green Tree's creative application of interest that is responsible. While I have not been given an itemization I have received an explanation of simple interest accumulation and how additional interest is generated over those periods where >30 days occur between payments.

    In all conversations I have been told this balance was sent over by GMAC, however the written statement seems to suggest that this was determined by Green Tree after reviewing the payment history.

    Per Green Tree "Additional funds have been applied to reduce the principal balance of the loan; however, the interest earned, but not collected prior to October 1, 2009 was $13,394.74."

    Edit: I should also note that Green Tree is not alledging any late payments or fees applied, simply interest.
  8. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    Thanks for updating us. Predatory lending is hard to prove when you did sign the mortgage contract. When this happens, it is now contract law and you agreed by signing that you read the contract. In addition, they will prove you benefited from the transaction. By the time you get a lawyer for thousands of dollars and get to court, your odds are slim. I say this so you do not waste time or money pursuing anything that will bear no fruits.

    However, you can dispute the fees and your mortgage now if you choose to do so. But what happens if they just ignore you, well, then you are forced to represent yourself or hire a lawyer to fight in court. Maybe you can do this in small claims?

    In any event, you have to file a QWR and follow the proper steps for you to be able to win.
  9. RStemler

    RStemler LoanSafe Member

    Thanks again Moe. I mailed and faxed a second request specifically detailing the information I am requesting - dates, amounts, interest charged, etc. after speaking with a very helpful customer service rep.

    I'm stuggling because I cannot understand how they are calculating the interest. To date I have paid $46,066.74, amounting to $11,066.74 in interest over 45 months at 8.4%. They are claiming I owe an additional $13,178.54. Under any means how is it possible to accrue 24,245.28 at 8.4 in 3 years?

    Under the RESPA statute are servicers required to show specifics or are they allowed to present vague and ambiguous statements? I am not sure if the response I have received would suffice.
  10. Moe

    Moe Call 1-800-779-4547 Staff Member Loan Safe Mortgage

    My pleasure.

    You would have to send a QWR and ask for a life of loan history accounting or your mortgage. This would be an accounting from when you first obtained your loan until now. If you send the QWR and they still do not give you what you need to figure this out, then your only recourse is going to court.
  11. RStemler

    RStemler LoanSafe Member

    Some additional progress in this case. The AG examiner noticed that none of the payments while under GMAC were applied to the principal and sent notice to both firms for an explanation. In the provided historical account Green Tree did properly divide the payments to principal and interest.

    I contacted GMAC and was told I would be contacted by a supervisor, which did not happen. When I called back I was told my mortgage was interest only. Both times I sent registered letters requesting review and explanation.

    I have continued to make monthly payments to Green Tree; however they are now demanding the entire 13k or face collections and negative report on my credit history.

    After conducting a review of the mortgage and payment history provided by Green Tree, the AG examiner concurs the loan is not only paid in full, but overpaid. I am not sure exactly what powers the AG has, but would this decision be considered arbitration and legally binding?
  12. RStemler

    RStemler LoanSafe Member

    I am not sure exactly who to credit this, but GMAC finally admitted the error. I suspect one of the following:

    1. WI DFI investigation - I suspect this is the office primarily responsible
    2. IRS - once I let them know of the error and the incorrect 1098 statements I have been provided
    3. Loan satisfaction request - WI has a law where the loan provider has 7 days to provide full satisfaction of loan documentation or provide sufficient evidence to the contrary

    Either way I have received a statement and chart showing how the account should have been managed. Currently waiting on Green Tree to make the adjustments and provide refund of the overpayment.

    I imagine the loan was sold to them as they thought this was an interest only loan, since no one ever reviewed the actual contract. Scary thing is I have written reviews by both companies stating the account is correct - with attached copy of the mortgage contract and payment history.
  13. DenBran25

    DenBran25 LoanSafe Member

    I have also been subjected to Green Tree's ways. Our loan was bought by GT back in Nov. 2009. We were struggling with our payment and they offered us to apply for the Making Home Affordable Program. So we sent them all of our info and we found out we were denied. So then they suggested an in house rate modification. On December 30, 2009 our loan was in review for the rate modification. We were approved for the rate modification on March 15th, 2010. They maintananced our loan and our loan now reflected the rate change. So we make payments for three months. Everything was fine, then all of the sudden they tell us that we weren't really approved and they took it away and put our loan back in delinquency. What?? They tell me they made a mistake and that they didn't follow waterfall guidlines and so it was never really approved and now they have to re-submit it and it most likely won't be as good as a rate we had. Well, I have been trying to research waterfall guidlines and from what I can tell that is for the Making Home Affordable program, so that has nothing to do with us because this was an in house rate modification. I am starting to think they are trying to pull all those loans that they did a rate mod to and re-submit under the making home affordable program becasue each loan they approve under that program they get $1,000 each and $1,000 each year for five years that they are in good standing. So now I have the attorney General's office, Fannie Mae, and the FTC involved. All of them tell what they are doing is illegal. Now it is going to be a battle to try to prove it. We do have a lawyer, but don't really have the money to get him involved yet. I wanted to see what all the offices I contacted can do. Any advice? Oh, and we have continued to make payments according to the rate modification, which I have a signed contract for.

    MELISSAJOFLO LoanSafe Member


    Please note 1,052 Complaints and Reviews about GTS by seeing the below link regarding your client. Also, please note that my attorney will be notifying you as well as Green Tree in the immediate future regarding the laws that they have broken by calling neighbors and former family members regarding my personal affairs. I will be suing for unnecessary harassment and duress and as a long time employee of _______ in NYC who is on PERMANENT LT DI from my employer as well and the U.S.A. government. I will also prove that your client intentionally performs acts to confuse and upset mortgagors by practicing illegal business practices according to the FDIC. I will also obtain a Disability attorney who will subpoena mentioned neighbors as well as my physicians and will obtain affidavits from said persons. Also, the following attachments from me will be documentation proving that I have been paying my mortgage diligently since Nov 1, 2005 (closed October 17, 2005) to Bank of America AND until your client took over and I was not notified by any party and continued to pay BOA until the account number became obsolete. After Green Tree was able to UPDATE their records correctly (via a phone call from me) and MAIL my documents to MY address (they missed the unit #on the address label for several months,) I spoke to the representative to clear things up as you can suspect, I was unnerved by the fact that I have been a conscientious consumer and debtor who pays her bills religiously on time! I will also be making formal complaints to The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) regarding the consumer protection laws that GTF has broken regarding late mortgage payments as well as GTF unscrupulous business practices that CAUSE the late charges and emotional stress to mortgagors. My bank loan is with BANK OF AMERICA and GTF is breaching my contract with BOA by the illegal and unscrupulous business practices performed by representatives and governed by GTF management.

    Unfortunately, father passed away VERY unexpectedly on October 31, 2011 which strangely enough was the day before they took over the loan. I paid a neighbor to care for my unit, get my mail and take care of my dog and fish. My family of three (me and my 2 young sons) went to NY to tend to my father's affairs which were NOT left in order. We remained there for several weeks and I have been traveling there for extended periods of time throughout the past 17 months and have had limited internet and cell phone service due to the remote area in NY that he retired from Long Island to fifteen years ago. His home is in Belfast, NY. Anyway, my records show that I was paid up when your client took over and their bad accounting and lack of cohesive departmental sharing of pertinent information has wreaked havoc on the former BOA mortgagors here @ ___ condominiums in Oakland Park, FL. They consistently charge us for insurance that we have had through our Master Association since the community established a HOA shortly after I closed on my condo. This information was passed on to your client and they continually charge us late fees for insurance and escrow when they are the ones not doing their job duties properly. WE are their CLIENTS and their company has a responsibility to provide good SERVICE TO US.

    As my documentation will prove, I have been paying your client regularly and their bad accounting is what has created AN ILLEGAL FORECLOSURE which I will also sue them for damaging my credit rating and causing further stress and illness to me because of their illegal business practices that include but are not limited to, harassing clients unnecessarily by calling and bothering and wasting their time as well as NEIGHBORS and FORMER family members of mortgagors, intentionally creating false late charges, imposing false insurance charges and escrow charges based on improper accounting and a lack of a company policy for coordinating their departmental information (accounting and insurance,) intentionally NOT paying ESCROW when the escrow payments have been received, creating UNAPPLIED FUNDS accounts with hundreds of dollars in the account when those funds should be applied to the Escrow and mortgage and intentionally NOT applying mortgage payments to the proper account numbers so the mortgage would be SEEM past due when it truth, it is CURRENT, AND sending out confusing statements INTENDED to cause mistakes by and emotional stress to mortgagors. The interesting part of this story is that they ACTUALLY SUCCEED in their intentional unscrupulous business practices that are set up to collect falsified late charges, insurance charges and escrow charges and CAUSE formerly sane, conscientious and timely paying mortgagors to become emotionally unstable, confused and late and/or incorrect paying mortgagors, hence collecting amounts that are truly NOT due to them! In addition to above and below mentioned items that I will be including in my lawsuit, I will also be suing to be compensated for ALL illegally imposed late charges including interest as well as for time lost and emotional stress while attempting to explain to your client. Please see attached document that provides the legal statutes regarding late charges. The below is a quick excerpt regarding payments which are governed by Federal and state laws govern mortgage regulations about late mortgage payments. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC), Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) enforce them nationally. Read about consumer protections regarding late mortgage payments.
    HUD Housing Regulations

    Regulations for HUD-insured homes allow for the servicer of the loan to charge a late payment fee 15 days after the due date, in other words not earlier than the 16th day following the due date. For example, if the due date on your loan is the 1st of the month, you are delinquent by the 2nd and a late charge can be assessed by the 17th if your payment has not been received. The loan servicer can usually charge up to 4 percent of the monthly payment as a late fee. Late payments are calculated separately for each month and monthly payments cannot be lumped together. Late payments can also be waived as it is at the discretion of the servicer whether or not to charge a fee in the first place. The borrower should especially have a late fee waived if the payment was late due to no fault situation.

    I would suggest that you re-evaluate your client base and consider choosing clients that practice scrupulous and legal business procedures rather than Green Tree's way of business. I would also like this foreclosure TERMINATED and MY credit CORRECTED as well as future legal fees paid by your client as well as past and future damages for increased medical fees incurred due to their harassment, damages for erroneously damaging my credit score, damages for creating increased rates, damages for causing problems with current new car search and purchase, damages for creating blemishes on my reputation which including but not limited to here in the LakeView community, the Broward County Tax Appraiser's office (Lori Parish is a grandparent at my son's school and a former volunteer for me at the school, Virginia Shuman Young Elementary, neighbors and former family members, and current and former creditors and business partners. I look forward to creating a legal situation for your client that will punish them for their illegal and unscrupulous business practices to me, my family and all the unfortunate former BOA mortgagors that always paid their mortgages on time and were punished by the unfortunate Real Estate climate CREATED by the banking industry which caused our property values to significantly decrease due to several owners here and in the county dump their homes and walk away because the could not afford their homes TO BEGIN WITH and WE should NOT be penalized for others' poor and dishonest practices, but this is life and life is not always fair. I CHOSE to stay while I watched so many walk away and BOA obviously needed to clean up their books and a bunch of upside down condominiums on their books was a perfect way to do so. I assume that you will be communicating with your client and me shortly to remedy this situation. My next email will be documentation of current payments scheduled via BOA and ABFS to show my good faith EVEN IF GTS IF NOT SHOWING GOOD FAITH NOR GOOD BUSINESS PRACTICES.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  15. Cat Damiano

    Cat Damiano Mortgage Wars

    Melissa, I am not sure what you are asking here as we are not attorneys. You would need to review this with a real estate foreclosure attorney in your state to see if there is a case and how you should proceed.

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