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Countrywide and Bankruptcy

Discussion in 'Countrywide Home Loans - Tell Us Your Countrywide ' started by EstherL, Oct 26, 2009.

  1. EstherL

    EstherL LoanSafe Member

    I'm considering filing chapter 7 soon. Just wondering if Countrywide will do a modification after a bankruptcy?
  2. Liza09

    Liza09 LoanSafe Member

    We have two Bank of America (previously Countrywide) loans. Prior to filing our Chapter 7 bankruptcy, we set up a trial modification with both loans. After two months into our trial, we filed our bankruptcy. When B of A found out, they said, due to the BK filing, the trial agreement was null and void. We had to get our attorney to write a letter to B of A allowing them to talk to us while in bankruptcy. We have sent in our loan modification packages and are awaiting their response. We probably will be discharged before we get an answer regarding the modifications.

    I don't know whether this applies to all B of A loans or just certain investors. One of my investors is Bank of New York (our primary residence) and the other is Duetsche Bank (an investment property).
  3. DesertMe

    DesertMe LoanSafe Member

    I had a Chapter 7 and a mortgage with BofA/CW. Mortgage discharged in BK. They will not talk to you until BK discharged and mortgage reaffirmed. Since they refused to do a loan mod, I chose to walk and not reaffirm mortgage. And yes, they are foreclosing, but I did get a years "free rent"...If you wish to keep your house, then reaffirm (and keep up payments), if not......
  4. pdsfoley

    pdsfoley LoanSafe Member

    BAC will do Mods with BK as long as you get a letter from attorey stating they can still speak to you during BK, BAC changed their rules on BK about 6 mos ago because so many were going BK during mods and delaying the process.
  5. EstherL

    EstherL LoanSafe Member

    I'm trying to understand...does Bank of America expect you to reaffirm the mortgage if you've gone bankrupt - in order for them to consider a modification? I would hate to reaffirm the debt and then be told "unable to modify"...then technical I would be responsible for the loan and deficit.
  6. EstherL

    EstherL LoanSafe Member

    I've been trying to do a modificaiton on my home for 10 months...given the run around so many times...even got a temp modification, paid 4 months, only to be told I don't qualify for that program. On Friday, I spoke with someone in the OOP and told them I was going to file bankruptcy due to auction scheduled at the end of this month...and they postponed the auction for 30 days telling me they would work on the loan and if I filed bankruptcy right now they couldn't help me. Interesting...

    THANKS2U LoanSafe Member



    B of A 100% LIED TO YOU and or your lawyer was misinformed or unaware

    They / B of A are Defrauding Liers -

    In the HAMP rules and regs Banks must NOT hold the BK against you in any way shape or form and must still negotiate and must not cancel any prior ongoing / pre BK negotiations

    They must still talk to you and negotiate, especially when your lawyer sends them a letter stating it is legally agreed that B of A can negotiate with you DURING THE BK !

    You DO NOT have to wait for the Discharege at all !


    So I would tell them it is illegal for them not to negotiate during the BK process and it is ALSO Illegal to force you to reaffirm the laon after the debt has been discharged in BK

    I would just tell B of A what they MUST LEGALLY DO and make sure your lawyer sends them a letter to that effect !

    Otherwise Bank of America will LIE, CHEAT, STEAL FROM YOU and DEFRAUD YOU !

    Good luck

    Keep fighting and know your rights - All the info you need is on this site, Just got to search for it a bit

    But your Lawyer really should already know all these facts by now, since this HAMP and Modification process has been going on for several months now ...
  8. EstherL

    EstherL LoanSafe Member

    Thanks for the information! I'll go talk to my attorney. We hadn't even even asked our attorney about negotiating with bank in bankruptcy...he thought we were just going to give up the house as we have lost $600,000 in value...although it's hard to totally walk away as we put down over $200K...although who knows when the value will come back...maybe in 15yrs...we must be crazy to even considering trying to fight for the house...

    THANKS2U LoanSafe Member

    You are crazy NOT to fight for your home...

    Ask for an in house mod - Fixed 2 % interest for 40 years with a principal reduction if needed - The principal reduction can be added as a balloon payment at loans end or when you sell the home.

    If they wil not work with you, keep on trying anyway and make sure to drag the BK out for as long as posssible !! Up to 2 years

    They can not foreclouse on you while you are in bankruptcy

    Stall Stall and stall JUST LIKE THEY DO

    Never pay any of your mortgage payment NEVER Not until they offer you a permanent in house mod

    No frickin trial periods Trial periods are 95 % of the time a waste of time and money..

    If they offer a trial period, pay your attorney an extra $100.00 To look it over and explain to you if the trial period is a legitimate deal and will work for you.

    No harm at all in fighting the bank for a couple of years, while you drag your feet in BK and stay in your house rent free and save the money in a friends or relatives account.

    Screw the bank because that is exactly what they are doing to you

    Know you legal rights and make those rights work for you NOT THE BANK !

    Once these frickin banks start realizing people are on to their defrauding backstabbing games, then the banks will be forced to wake up and work with us !
  10. jrolfedrev

    jrolfedrev LoanSafe Member

    Are you current on your mortgage when you filed for Chap 7? I heard some lawyer advise their client to be current before filing.
  11. DesertMe

    DesertMe LoanSafe Member

    First of all, it is not "bullcrap"..Second, I had an EXCELLENT attorney...Third, the OP made no mention of any letter reaffirming her mortgage. And last, BofA will not speak to you until a BK is discharged. They cannot legally attempt to collect ANY debt during a BK. You have a choice in BK, reaffirm the mortgage or not. I chose not to reaffirm because I wanted the option of walking away if I chose to do so after discharge. Plus filing BK is the LAST thing the banks want because if your mortgage is included you can walk and they know it. After mine was discharged BofA came up with all kinds of offers, but in the end because the house was seriously underwater, I chose to walk away. If you choose to reaffirm during the BK, you are on the hook for that mortgage and your option to walk away does not exist. I would "include in bankruptcy" all mortgages and then play "let's make a deal" if you wish to keep the house. I would agree though, that BofA is learning how to play the game of let's shaft the mortgage holder, and figure out what's best for the bank. HAMP is kind of a joke...
  12. THANKS2U

    THANKS2U LoanSafe Member

    First - I very much disagree -

    Second - I have no doubt your attorney was a good BK attorney.

    Third and Sadly, your attorney knew NOTHING about how he or she should have wriitten a letter to B of A and had them negotiate with you during the BK.

    Bank of America will negotiate during the BK process

    Reaffirming a loan is NEVER a good idea of course - I agree

    If any homeowner can negotiate for about the same as the bank would get in a short sale or after a forclosure, the bank will usually work with original borrower or the homeowner can do a short sale to a friend or relative and rent the house from the friend or relative, until such a time as the original owner can again re-purchase the home back.

    B of A always wants to shaft the homeowner - It is the current banking climate motto - Screw the Homeowners -

    It was always the banks Premediated plot / plan to do so...

    Except they did not foresee Obama wanting to help owners and how the President would try to force the banks to help with HAMP etc.

    Yes, I agree, the banks are intentionally manipulating any and all helpful programs, especially HAMP, to their own devious, diabolical and dispicable advantage - At least 95 % of the time they are.

    This is why we the people must continue to fight against these banking dark devils, who are from self serving hell..


    If WE give up and walk away, we are playing the banks game...

    I certainly do think every case is unique however and everyone needs to do what is best for them

    Sadly, the modification process is so fraught with intentional fraud and intentional misinformation from the banks and even attorneys that, it is difficult to fight against these lawbreaking banks

    As long as we keep fighting for ourselves and never let up and force our paid for governemnt to work for we the people, we have hope and their is a VERY good chance the banks will eventually be forced to help us all, or at least most of us

  13. davephx

    davephx LoanSafe Member

    My research on Chap 7 during mod is very mixed.

    It seems to be at the option of the lender but other places infers can still do mod.

    But it is true the lender can not try and collect the debt and to me it makes sense they can't even discuss it since by doing so may be a debt collection action which is forbidden while the stay is in effect.

    But the bank can motion to remove the stay related to the house and go ahead with a foreclosure sale. Is confusing.

    It actually sounds right that attorney can give bank permission to discuss. That would seem the only way around the no collection activity until stay is lifted or safer yet for the banks after discharge.

    Here is one lawyers discussion:
    Some servicers require homeowers to reaffirm their mortgage before they will consider them for a HAMP modification. This complicates the reaffirmation analysis for reasons discussed below.
    But, first let’s back up a bit and discuss reaffirmation and secured debt in general.
    Secured debt in bankruptcy
    Secured debt such as a mortgage includes two components: you are personally liable for paying the debt, AND the collateral (your house, in the case of a mortgage) can be taken away if you don’t pay.
    A Chapter 7 bankruptcy generally relieves homeowners of personal liability for paying their mortgage.
    But, the lender retains the second “part” of the debt– the right to foreclose if you don’t make mortgage payments.
    Reaffirmation of a mortgage: what is it?
    When you sign a reaffirmation agreement, you agree to remain personally liable on the mortgage after your bankruptcy. Your bankruptcy would otherwise relieve you of this personal liability. More below on why this is significant, but suffice it to say reaffirming your mortgage in a Chapter 7 bankruptcy can be a very bad idea.
    Doesn’t the 2005 bankruptcy law require me to reaffirm?
    Technically, the 2005 BAPCPA changes to the Bankruptcy Code force debtors to choose between reaffirming a secured loan DURING the bankruptcy or surrendering the collateral.
    But– maybe because no one seems to have equity in their houses any more– bankruptcy courts do not seem especially eager to force the issue when debtors continue to make their mortgage payments.

    If you want to keep the home I don't see the problem with reaffirmation at least on the 1st. 2nd might be stripped. But Chap 7 itself will not save the house. Under Chap 13 the delinquent payments rolled into the plan but still have to pay all future payments in full.
  14. davephx

    davephx LoanSafe Member


    Obviously, if the bankruptcy court tells you to reaffirm or else surrender your house, you will need to consider reaffirming. But, you should also consider whether surrendering the house makes more sense.

    And, some mortgage servicers refuse to consider a homeowner for mortgage modification (including HAMP modifications) unless the homeowner reaffirms.

    Generally, a homeower should NOT consider reaffirming until he or she has a firm, written modification offer in writing specifying all terms– including the interest rate.

    Otherwise you could reaffirm but never actually receive a modification offer. You then would have signed up for personal liability and gotten nothing in return.

    Be prepared for a “chicken or egg” problem, however. Considering servicers’ seeming reluctance to process modifications, it can be difficult to get them to produce the modification paperwork before they have everything they want– including the reaffirmation.

    Don’t let this deter you from requesting a modification, however. Homeowners have reported some servicers did not even raise the issue of reaffirmation when they applied for a post-bankruptcy modification. (And the homeowners, perhaps wisely, did not “remind” the servicers about the bankruptcy discharge.)

    This may just be because the servicers are disorganized. Or, maybe servicers have started to realize it is in their best interest to modify.

    Source: Chapter 7 Bankruptcy: Mortgage Reaffirmation and Mortgage Modification, Including HAMP |

    Another Attorney says:
    Many Chapter 7 debtors state on their petitions that they intend to keep their exempt home and "reaffirm" the debt, but during the bankruptcy they do not sign reaffirmation agreements with their mortgage lenders. Bankruptcy law requires debtors sign reaffirmation for personal property they keep, such as their car, but there is no required reaffirmation agreement for loans secured by real property, such as the homestead. If a debtor lists his mortgage but does not reaffirm the mortgage note the debtor no longer has personal liability on the mortgage note after the bankruptcy discharge. The mortgage lender attorney explained that his client, the mortgage company, can not or will not modify a mortgage when the borrower is not personally liable to pay the mortgage. In other words, why would the lender want to extend their own risk on a defaulting loan and offer better mortgage terms to a borrower who has eliminated their own personal risk?

    Debtors who hope to modify mortgages may want to consider reaffirmation of their mortgage debt. Debtors should be wary of signing a binding modification agreement with their mortgage lender based on the lender’s oral statements and the debtor’s hope that the mortgage can be modified. Debtors can withdraw reaffirmation commitments until the bankruptcy case is closed or for 60 days, but thereafter, the reaffirmed debt binds the debtor whether or not the mortgage lender agrees to an attractive loan modification.

    posted by Jonathan Alper, bankruptcy and asset protection attorney, Orlando, Florida
  15. jdubu2

    jdubu2 LoanSafe Member

    Ok speaking from experience, We filed bankruptcy in June, I wrote the OOP in June also, told them what we were going through, that we very much wanted to keep our home. We have /had a very real hardship, we lost our 26 year old son, and my husband had to go on disability because of it (sad story) he took a 30% pay cut, and I also have been unemployed since my employer closed his business. I have a very nice person I am working with, and am hoping I am being told the truth, I am not stupid or naive enough to not keep informed, thus reading this site everyday and keeping in touch with BofA. I have never had to have a lawyer write a letter, nor have I ever had anyone from BofA tell me I can't or don't qualify for a mod. Write the office of the president, that is my suggestion. just be nice. that is just my 2 cents. be patient, and NEVER take the 2st persons word for anything whilst dealing with Bofa...:rolleyes:
  16. Housebroken13

    Housebroken13 LoanSafe Member

    I was with countrywide when I filed for BK Chp 7, I had signed a loan mod agreement right before I filed. They terms Countrywide gave me were horrible, plus they did not even take into account the second lien.

    I went back to BAC once they purchased Countrywide and the HAMP was introduced. My BK was discharged in June of 2009. Both my 1st and 2nd mortgages were reaffirmed also. Not sure why my attorney reaffirmed the 2nd....

    Right now i am on a 6 month HomeSaver Forebearence, and have no idea what will happen.

    I am now dealing directly with BOA's legal department.

    Someone did answer the phone at the number I was given and they told me this is a good thing, it's not a bad thing.

    I'm proceeding with high caution at this point....
  17. THANKS2U

    THANKS2U LoanSafe Member

    You shoud SUE your attorney for reaffirming the loans



  18. THANKS2U

    THANKS2U LoanSafe Member

  19. jdubu2

    jdubu2 LoanSafe Member

    We did not reaffirm the mortgage debt, maybe it is different for each state?
  20. EstherL

    EstherL LoanSafe Member

    Thanks for the information. Still trying to figure out if I should file Chapter 7 now, or wait to see if I get a modification first. We are going to have to file Chapter 7 (due to death in family, reduction of overtime, and debt incurred to hold house) so just trying to figure out when the right time is to file. I got through the OOP, emailed fiancials and now am being told I'm being assigned a negotiator...but not sure when I'll hear from them as I applied for help from NACA so they may decide to not talk to me, even though I haven't heard from NACA since signing up online a month ago...

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