Home Loans and Support

B of A to Nationstar -- one hell to another

Discussion in 'Stop Foreclosure and Tell Us Your Story' started by NYCCB, Oct 8, 2013.

  1. NYCCB

    NYCCB LoanSafe Member

    I'm wondering if you guys can help me. I've been lurking reading and absorbing but I have to speak up now b/c I'm scared. BofA sent my servicing to Nationstar July 1 in the middle of a mod application. The file was complete and going to underwriting. I wish I had known that I could have had them hold on to it to make a decision before sending it. I have been going thru hell w/ NS. I wasted several weeks in July b/c they claim they didn't have my info to speak to me. Despite the fact that my file was complete, they made me resubmit all kinds of documents to have them under NS heading for their paperwork. I sent everything they asked for within a day of asking.

    My situation is this: my husband and I were both in a serious car accident. We both had injuries, surgeries and at least a year and a half in rehab. We both worked but I lost my job. My husband went back to work for someone else after being his own boss but at reduced hours. We applied for forebearance got it until BofA decided that they didn't want to receive partial payments anymore. We had ARM that went up to 10.75% so the payment was killing us w/ one salary/ BofA stalled us for 2y w/ the usual lost paperwork, expired paperwork b/c it's past 90 days and my favorite your SPOC has been changed and you have to work w/ a new person who can't make decisions based on someone else's work and wants you to renew everything all over again. A nightmare!

    Anyway, just when we thought the end was near, they changed servicer to NS. The whole dance starts all over again and added to the pot is the letter of sale date that's sent to us despite their reassurance that w/ a file in review no foreclosure sale will take place. THEY LIED b/c our house went into trustee sale Sept. Throughout the weeks before I kept calling people and explaining the urgency to them. They promised to "expedite" and "accelerate" review. I find out that the file was set aside b/c a LOE for our self-employed taxes saying that we closed our business was overlooked. My husband was the owner/only worker so we couldn't stay open waiting indefinitely while we were recuperating. My husband was the most hurt. That letter has been in the file since day one. And even the rep said "oh I don't know how they missed that. I'll express it for review b/c it was our mistake".

    Well, I'm thinking they're still on my side so when the rep I spoke to wanted a fresh recent paystub just to be sure, I sent it. Lo and behold, that one piece of paper cause the date on my RMA to reset to the day I sent it so that it was recorded that my file wasn't complete 6 days before the proposed sale date and b/c of that it violated their rule to have all files complete for review 15 days before a sale date in order to stop the sale.

    Had anyone made me aware of that I would have told the guy to make do w/ the 3 months paystubs he already had in his possession b/c nothing has changed w/ the amount. I kept my fingers crossed that compassion, kindness, common sense would prevail b/c everything was there and even my HOPE counselor said we were good candidates for the mod. Even the amount proposed was going to be a tremendous help. My mortgage would go from 4K to 2.3K which would have been a real blessing. Economy lost me the equity in my house, savings are exhausted w/ medical bills and 3 kids one in college and now they took my house.

    I used all the numbers and emails that you all gave out here to send letters to the office of the president, loss mitigation managers, CFPB, HOPE to see if the trustee sale can be reversed. I'm losing hope b/c I get a letter today from a real estate agent telling me that I have til the end of october to move. On top of that I also get a letter of official denial for mod b/c of the "missing" financial letter....the letter THEY overlooked. I don't know what to do.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  2. NYCCB

    NYCCB LoanSafe Member

    Thank you for reading such a long tale of woe. I'm sorry but I was trying to be as detailed as possible. Just wanted to add it's our first house, our only mortgage on the house and the fourth time in 18years we've had a servicer change. We owe about 353K but w/ fees and penalties they're taking on there's going to be an extra 60K and change added I'm sure.
  3. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide Staff Member


    Thanks for your post.

    I'm sorry, but not surprised, to hear of your experience (runaround) with BOA.

    I recommend you escalate the matter to MHA-C / HSC. I further recommend you write a letter to Brian Moynihan at the Office of the CEO & President, explaining the situation and asking for assistance.
  4. NYCCB

    NYCCB LoanSafe Member

    >> Thank you for the advice Tom. I will do that immediately. Did you mean Nationstar's Compliance Division or a government agency? I just got a call this morning from the executive office based on my complaint with the CFPB. They didn't have an answer for us but they called b/c they couldn't find the authorization to talk to me about the mortgage and to let me know that the name on the complaint and the mortgage have to match. My husband's name is the one on the mortgage note b/c the last time we refi 11yrs ago, I was on maternity leave for a year so no income. I'm on the deed and I've always been an authorized user by verbal and a fax authorizations. And suddenly they couldn't find record of it. This is making me feel paranoid. They said that they will have a determination to CFPB by the Oct 23rd. I'm sick to my stomach it's going to take that long b/c of the written threat to move out by end of October from the Trustee sale real estate agent.
  5. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide Staff Member


    Thanks for your post. I erred in my post; I was thinking the loan was still serviced by BOA. MHA-C is the MHA / HAMP compliance center.
  6. NYCCB

    NYCCB LoanSafe Member

    I'm still waiting for their review b/c of the CFPB complaint I lodged against them for the premature trustee sale. They made sure to call me twice to tell me that there's an investigator looking into the file and that I'd get an answer by Oct 23rd but in the meantime, that real estate agent of theirs stopped by the house again. He left a card in the door again and my neighbor saw him taking pictures of our house. What do you guys think? Do you think I have a chance? Will they be mad at me for stirring up trouble for them and penalize us?
  7. NYCCB

    NYCCB LoanSafe Member

    Today someone served us papers that said we have to move in 90 days which falls mid January. In the meantime, they're still "reviewing" from the complaint I lodge at the Ofce of the President and the CFPB. The house is also on an auction site as a bank owned house for November sale. Is there anything else I should be doing or is it too late for our family. Please read my first post and let me know.
  8. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide Staff Member


    Be sure to file an answer; otherwise the plaintiff can, and likely will, take a default judgment.
  9. NYCCB

    NYCCB LoanSafe Member

    Thank you for the quick answer Tom. Is this something a lawyer has to do? I have to admit I'm losing the will to fight b/c it's been so long. Three years of fighting a machine. I'm willing to put in the fight if I have a chance. At this point if we have to move, I don't want to throw money at a lawyer that we should be saving for a rental deposit. I'm also still waiting for the MHA escalation team to call back. High call volumes and they promised to call within 48hrs.
  10. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide Staff Member

    Hi NYCCB

    Thanks for your post. I don't blame you for not wanting to pay lawyer fees.

    A defendant in pro se can file an answer; i.e. theres no need for an attorney.
  11. Cat Damiano

    Cat Damiano Mortgage Wars

    Welcome to the forum and thank you for joining.......................

    Were you being considered for a HAMP modification?
    It sounds like your loan may be a GSE loan ie Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac which you can check here;

    For Fannie Mae: 1-800-7FANNIE (8am to 8pm EST)

    For Freddie Mac:
    1-800-FREDDIE (8am to 8pm EST)

    If that is the case, for GSE loans, all income documents must be no more than 90 days old as of the time the last document was received. This means that every time you send in a new document, it could potentially cause another document to expire. If time elapses during this process and they keep asking for docs, send in a brand new, full set of income docs. It is a pain, but you cannot always count on the people requesting documents to do the math themselves and realize what will happen when your new documents come in. Also, if you sent in an LOE showing that the business was closed, if it was a schedule C business, then the LOE by itself should suffice. If it was a schedule E business, then they may end up needing additional docs. A dissolution of business from the Secretary of State should work for this.

    Here are some Nationstar contacts for you to contact directly to appeal the decision;
    Nationstar CEO: Jay Bray


    Beau Bridges (HAMP Underwriting Mgr.)
    1-888-480-2432 ext. 2446

  12. NYCCB

    NYCCB LoanSafe Member

    Cat -- Yes, we were being considered for a HAMP and I just checked. Our loan is not FANNIE MAE or FREDDIE MAC. I sent in the letters to Jay Bray on Oct 8 to request the investigation into my file which is taking place from my understanding. What I'm upset about is that they are still dual tracking b/c of the new letter I received on Tuesday this week. I sent him an update on that as well and CC'd my HOPE counselor as well. Tom told me to also call the MHA-C which I did and they're going to call me back within 48hrs. Very busy given the glut of complaints I'm sure. Thank you so much for helping me. It helps having you guys to keep me sane.
  13. Cat Damiano

    Cat Damiano Mortgage Wars


    Thank you for the additional information. Sounds like your investor has similar requirements as do Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, even though your loan is non-GSE.

    In regards to dual tracking, there are 2 sets of rules, one which applies to all banks party to the National Mortgage Settlement, and the other, less restrictive set of rules set by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

    BofA, Wells, GMAC, Citi, and JP Morgan are all bound to the National Mortgage Settlement agreement. Under these rules, if you have a complete application before the 15 day mark, then the bank cannot proceed with foreclosure until you have been evaluated for modification.

    As Nationstar was not involved in this settlement, the rules that apply to them, set by the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, require that the borrower submit a complete application before the 37 day to sale date mark.

    Here are some actions you can take and some advice.

    1) I would question why your RMA would need to be refreshed just because you send in a new pay stub. If there has been no significant change in your situation since they received the first one, then this sounds like a questionable requirement.

    2) Ask them for any other information they need while this is being investigated. If they ask for anything, do what you can to get it to them as soon as possible, even if the request seems questionable. You want the responsibility for any delays to be 100% percent on them.

    3) Related to the above point, keep any correspondence you have from them, and keep track of what they have asked you for up until this point. Even if you needed a new RMA, the rep should have told you that when they told you to send in the pay stub.

    Similarly, if you have complied with the requests for documents up until this point, then a case can be made that the delay is 100 percent their responsibility. Most people who go through the modification process are asked for documents many, many times. At some point, once a majority of the documents have been received, the servicer should be able to tell the customer all of the remaining requirements to complete the package.

    This is often not the case, and if they do not tell you 100 percent of what they need by the 15 or 37 day mark, you cannot possibly send it to them in the required time frame.

    If the bank's or investor's guidelines state that certain documents expire when new documents are sent in, then it is the bank's responsibility to know their guidelines and give you accurate information as to what will be needed.

    Having been transferred from BofA to Nationstar and sending in duplicate documents, this process has already been grueling enough on you. You have made a good faith effort to work out your loan and they should own up to their role in this process and work with you.

  14. Cat Damiano

    Cat Damiano Mortgage Wars


    The more I think about this, the less sense that Nationstar’s requirements make. It sounds like you may very well have had a complete application from the first time you sent in your documents to Nationstar. The rule from the CFPB reads like this-

    “So, if you’ve sent in a complete application for help before foreclosure is initiated or more than
    37 days before a scheduled foreclosure sale, one of the following things has to occur before your
    servicer can start or complete the foreclosure process:
    • The servicer decides you don’t qualify for any workout.
    • You reject the workout options the servicer offers you.
    • You make a workout agreement and then don’t do what you promised to do in the
    workout agreement (like making trial payments).
    But you have to respond quickly to the options your servicer offers. If your foreclosure date is
    close, you may get only seven days to say yes to a loan workout.”

    Notice that the rule states that you have to have sent in a complete application. It does not say that your application must be in review. In other words, if you have sent in all necessary documentation for them to make a decision, then you have fulfilled your end of the bargain. If Nationstar has a backlog of loans waiting to be reviewed for a decision and cannot get to your case in due time, that is not your problem. If Nationstar reps cannot find or do not look at your letter explaining the circumstances with your business, that is not your problem, nor is it your fault.

    I am a little confused about your situation with the RMA. From your post it sounds like they are saying you needed to send a new one in to complete your application because your most recent pay stub submitted caused it to be outdated. Is this correct?

    I also find it questionable the way they asked for a pay stub. It is a good thing that your rep is being proactive and trying to make sure you have all required documents before you are reviewed for a decision. With that said, when they say “Just to make sure”, that doesn’t exactly cut it.

    Nationstar will be using some sort of guidelines to determine what documents you need, either guidelines set by the investor behind your loan, or guidelines set by Nationstar that the investor agrees with.

    These guidelines should be very explicit about how many pay stubs are required for wage earners. So when your rep says “just to make sure”, they have full ability to make sure by reviewing the documents that you sent in to see if you have sent enough. They should do this before asking you for something else that you may not need.

    You say you have previously sent in 3 months-worth of pay stubs, and that should be more than enough. They need an average monthly income figure to see if your payment is more than 31% and to see if you qualify. To give you an idea of what might be required, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac require 28 to 30 days-worth of pay stubs. So if you get paid biweekly, then 2 or 3 pay stubs would meet Fannie and Freddie requirements. There is no reason the investor behind your loan should have more than triple the requirements.

    If your file was complete before you sent in that last pay stub then it should still be complete after you sent it. If they have you send in unnecessary documents it should not cause documents you already sent in to be void. You have no reason to be punished for their mistakes.

    If you did in fact need more pay stubs then what you have already sent in, they should have known this when they asked for documents the first time.

    And when they send you a denial letter you because you "didn't send in" a document that your rep has admitted was in their possession the whole time, that doesn't cut it either.

    I would make sure any interested parties understand all of this. You have been going through this process for years, even while enduring extremely difficult circumstances. It is more than clear that you have acted in good faith and have went above and beyond the call of duty. They are really looking like the bad guys at this point.
  15. NYCCB

    NYCCB LoanSafe Member

    You couldn't be more right. I called a lawyer too just in case. He was nice enough to talk to me w/o asking for a retainer. I have to save money in case we do have to move. He was shocked too. He was also surprised that in NY they did a non-judicial foreclosure on me. I don't know if that's a good thing for my case or not. But he said to wait and see what they decide and THEN hire him if they don't change their mind about the rescinding. He thinks I have a good case esp since I did all my due diligence. You and this site were a TREMENDOUS help and I'm forever grateful.
  16. Cat Damiano

    Cat Damiano Mortgage Wars

    Thank you for your kind words, please keep us posted on what decision they come back with. Good Luck!!
  17. NYCCB

    NYCCB LoanSafe Member

    Cat -- I thought I'd have some news. Despite Nationstar's assurance to make a decision on their investigation of my mod request file by today, I received the following from the CFPB on their behalf. The scary thing is that the auction sales date on my house is still set for the first week of November. It's enough to make one scream. What do I do next. I just sent a letter to Jay Bray's office. Not that anyone there ever answers his email.

    from CFPB --- "The company has provided a partial response to your complaint describing the steps taken so far to address your issue. They stated they are still working on your issue, and you should hear from them again within 60 days."

  18. NYCCB

    NYCCB LoanSafe Member

    Cat -- PLEASE ANSWER -- Another update today. I guess my multiple emails to the executive office found their way to the right person. I got a call from a Nationstar reviewer/processor telling me that he and his manager have been told to look at my case and they were fast tracking my file. He apologized for the big mess and irregularities noted and agreed that we were maligned and were candidates for the HAMP program and he expects approval. He did ask for updated taxes b/c they were missing last year's taxes for which we had filed an extension (copy of that was given to them). We've since filed our return and have it available.

    Of course that request made me immediately suspicious b/c asking for new docs was what reset my RMA completion date last time. So I questioned him and he said that wouldn't happen. I told him about the foreclosure sale date set for the first week of November and he assured me that as soon as the file went to the review/underwriting dept, a letter would be sent to the legal office stopping/postponing the sale. I was very nice and said that I would appreciate that assurance in writing b/c at this point, so many promises were made and broken by other reps that I wasn't quite so trusting anymore.

    All I know is I want to believe but I am so very leery. Does anyone see a trap here or am I getting paranoid?
  19. Cat Damiano

    Cat Damiano Mortgage Wars

    After everything you have been through, it is understandable that you would feel leery and paranoid, anyone who is going through similar would feel exactly that way. That is good news that you were able to get some movement on your appeal and that they noticed their error. They are probably asking for tax returns because extensions ran out earlier this month.

    I would go ahead and send in your tax returns. Make sure they are signed and dated and include all applicable schedules. If the tax returns are incomplete then they probably won’t be able to move your loan forward.You mentioned self-employment income on your previous taxes. Do you have any self-employment income on these taxes? Do you have any other income on the new tax returns that would create a discrepancy? From your post, it sounds like your only source of income is wages. I would check your taxes for any income other than wages, and write a letter explaining the status of that income.

    At this point you need to make sure that you follow up with this new contact regularly due to the fact that a sale date normally will not be able to be postponed until it is within 1-7 days out. Getting that modification into the underwriter for the review will be able to accomplish this. Also try asking this new contact who the investor on your loan is and see what they say as that will be a determining factor in what would be a next step if for any reason you were denied the HAMP, which does not sound likely from what they are telling you.
  20. NYCCB

    NYCCB LoanSafe Member

    Thank you for reading my note. I took a deep breath of faith and sent them everything by fax and by email this morning. And you were right; tax extensions did end this month and that's probably why they were asking. I had it and emailed it after making sure everything looked kosher. I also emailed a letter re-iterating our discussion of last night's points of conversation regarding the assurance of not resetting the RMA completion date, approving the mod and the rescission of Trustee Sale. I CC'd the office of the president, the underwriting manager, my HOPE counselor and the lawyer who's unofficially (so far) advising me. I'm going to keep the information you gave me about the 1-7 day deadline to heart and make sure I don't even get close to it if they ask for anything else. I don't need another loophole or lack of info to be my undoing.

    Btw, I made a formal request in writing to find out who my investor is about a month ago. They still haven't answered it. I'm hoping that this new rep and his manager are truthful and there is a resolution and favorable ending to this so I won't have to pursue more action against a new entity. Just in case tho, my lawyer is standing by. I appreciate this site more than words can say. I am sure I would never have gotten this far without you guys. A million thanks to you and Tom. I'll keep you posted.

Share This Page



"Hello Moe, I just wanted to tell you, your website has saved my life (literally), I stumbled on your site in the middle of losing my home, I was able to network with people going through the same thing as I am. I didn't feel alone anymore, I have tried to give back and counsel those that haven't walked in my shoes yet. We hear so much about what is wrong with America, I just wanted you to know, you are whats "right" with America."

Nina Mitchell
Loansafe & MoeSeo Inc. © 2014 | LoanSafe.org is not a bank, lender, mortgage broker, law firm or affiliated with the US Government. Privacy Policy