Home Loans and Support

Anyone got a PNC Mortgage (formerly National City) permanent modification?

Discussion in 'Making Home Affordable' started by Clearing, Dec 26, 2009.

  1. Clearing

    Clearing LoanSafe Member

    I have made my HAMP trial payments to PNC Mortgage (formerly National City) in Oct, Nov and Dec 09. I was expecting to have received the permanent modification papers by now.

    Has anyone who started the trial period in Oct or Sept received their permanent modification yet? Did you have to do anything additional like talking to NACA or talking to some special department at PNC Mortgage to get the permanent modification done?

    In the Servicer Performance Report through November 09 (http://www.financialstability.gov/docs/MHA Public 121009 Final.pdf) , only 18 permanent modifications were made by PNC Mortgage as of the end of Nov 09.
    9,902 borrowers were in active trials. I wonder how many of those 9,902 received their permanent modification or have been denied.

    Please share your status if you are doing an HAMP with PNC Mortgage.
  2. avery

    avery LoanSafe Member

    Here is my story:
    I'll give you the rundown: Loan with PNC/National City and I am told Wells Fargo is investor.

    May 2009 - requested modification. Denied. Told to resubmit request.
    June 2009 - 4 month forebearance. Paid the new lower amount every month until October. Resubmitted my financials in September like they asked me. Told that I would soon be contacted.
    October 2009-December 2009 - Called every week. Told constantly not to pay but to save my money as I was not on a repayment plan, and that a negotiator would contact me soon.
    December 9 - told that a glitch in the system. No one had looked at my packet. For some reason my loan had gone to the collections people and I was no longer in loss mitigation. They would send out a new modification packet for me to fill out.
    December 15 - Received modification packet and a check for the amount I paid from June through September AND ANOTHER LETTER FROM COLLECTIONS STATING I WAS IN DEFAULT AND HAD UNTIL JANUARY 15 TO PAY OR FORECLOSURE PROCEEDINGS WOULD START. Filled out new modification packet.
    December 21 - Now the "system" has me as 7 months behind. Told that because I resubmitted modification packet the "system" sees it as a new request and could be another 12 weeks to get to a negotiator. In the meantime the loss mitigation counselor was going to "tell it to me straight" that I should contact collections and pay or they could foreclose and loss mitigation could not tell collections what to do even though it was their fault that my modification had not been looked at.

    After a sleepless night, I decided to call collections the next day and scrape up all my savings to pay or get a repayment plan from collections. Collections told me that I should not pay as alot of activity was going on in my file in the last 24 hours and I had been assigned a negotiator. They could not connect me to the negotiator. The phone number they gave me to the negotiator has been busy since (no voice mail or anything). My "processor" called and said that I had been sent a letter on Wednesday but would not tell me what it was...

    I do not want to get this close to foreclosure, and the letters (same letter sent 4 times, and certified) all threaten foreclosure if I don't pay the whole past due by January 15. I feel like they are trying to get me to foreclose?ANY ADVICE WOULD BE APPRECIATED! Thanks.
  3. Clearing

    Clearing LoanSafe Member

    I have so far made 4 monthly payments to the HAMP's 3-month trial period plan I have with PNC Mortgage.
    Today I received a certified letter from PNC Mortgage about my account being seriously delinquent, that repeated attempts to collect have gone unresolved, and that it is moving toward foreclosure.

    I think this is clearly a case of the COLLECTIONS Department not talking to the SPECIAL LOANS Department not talking to the CUSTOMER CORRESPONDENCE Department not talking to the CUSTOMER ADVOCACY Group. Which by the way are all actual departments at PNC I have received letters from. In other words, the right arm does not know what the left arm is doing at PNC Mortgage, formerly known as National City.

    Why don't they have an integrated system so that every department at the bank knows the current status of my account? Wouldn't that be more cost efficient? Is it that difficult to implement? If you were a shareholder of PNC, wouldn't that worry you a little bit?

    Still waiting on my permanent modification. Anybody out there who recently got a permanent mod from PNC?
  4. Toyen1255

    Toyen1255 LoanSafe Member

    I was denied HAMP back in Nov from National City Mortgage (PNC) after successfully making three trial payments. I', in Massachusetts and I'm unemployed, but recieving the highest payout in UNE. I recieve $2,556 monthly. My balance on my loan is $218K. My payments were $1695 including PMI and real estate tax. My new trial payments were $888.02. I recieved a letter stating due to failed underwriting waterfall, I was declined HAMP. the 31% bracket is confusing me. I'm not sure how I was approved and then declined. Does this make sense to anyone else? PLEASE HELP I agree regarding integrated system, it's annoying one department has this amount of information and another has nothing, I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. I've been trying to get a loan mod since March '09.
  5. Clearing

    Clearing LoanSafe Member

    Hi Toyen,
    The 31% refers to the Front-End DTI ratio of PITIA to Monthly Gross Income. It's in the HAMP guidelines drawn up by the Treasury.
    If your unemployement of $2,556 is your only income, then 31% of that is $792, which should be enough for a $218K loan.
    Actually a 30-year mortgage at 2% gives a monthly payment of $805, so they could have just extended the loan a bit. They can go up to 40 years.
    Do you know where exactly you failed the underwriting waterfall? The waterfall steps are described in the HAMP guidelines.
  6. Clearing

    Clearing LoanSafe Member

    Actually my math is incorrect. The 31% is for the PITIA, meaning it must also include the property tax, the insurance and the HOA fees. So $792 is not much when you have to include all that. Are your taxes high? Any HOAs?
  7. ginnywilcox

    ginnywilcox LoanSafe Member

    Denied...Here is our story:

    Applied for the Making Homes affordable back in March as soon as it was announced. Called every other week until August when we were told we were denied for an internal modification. I had to clarify to them we had been asking, in writing by the way, for the Making Homes affordable plan not thier own internal one. So we started from scratch again with the Making Homes program. They sent a new packet and modified our payments to 32% of our gross income starting in Sept 09. Paid 3 months trail on time (we actually had to pay $89 more that our current payment because we do not have an impound account) so in reality if we were to get a new payment impound it would be about 500 a month cheaper, so we thought it was a good deal if they approved us. November we got a letter stating we were denied due to "failed gross eligibility". I have tried to call as many numbers as possible to find someone who knows what that means but no one as been able to answer that questions. In the meantime they said they would reopen our application for consideration since we meet all the criteria...In the meantime I have contacted and filed a complaint with the office of the comptroller and my Representative at the house and waiting for further contact. I am tired of calling and writing at this point...our house is severly underwater (about 250,000) so I have no idea why we are even paying our mortgage right now!

    Best of luck to all!
  8. Clearing

    Clearing LoanSafe Member

    Have you tried to contact the Homeowner’s HOPE Hotline: (888) 995-HOPE?
    From the experiences I have read on this forum, they have a team dedicated to HAMP. Ask to speak to someone in that team and explain that you believe that you have been wrongfully denied a permanent modification under HAMP after 3 trial payments. They can contact PNC in a 3-way call to try to get answers. And they can escalate your file to someone at the US Treasury or at Fannie/Freddie if they believe that PNC is incorrectly interpreting the HAMP guidelines.
    Keep us updated with your progress!
  9. Clearing

    Clearing LoanSafe Member

    Continuing my PNC Mortgage watch:

    -as of Nov 30: PNC had 9,902 active trial modifications and 18 permanent mods
    -as of Dec 31: PNC has 12,153 active trial mods and 61 permanent mods and 0 permanent modifications pending final signature of the borrower

    So that's whopping 43 permanent mods in 1 month. Way to go PNC!
    I am guessing that they did not receive the visit of a US Treasury SWAT Team.
  10. JDoubleU529

    JDoubleU529 LoanSafe Member

    August 13, 2009: Being 10 months delinquent, I received a letter from PNC saying that I may qualify for a Home Affordable Modification Trial Period Plan.
    December 1, 2009: Completed the trial payment period.
    January 6, 2010: Received a letter from PNC saying they need a copy of my most recent paystub mailed back to them. I mailed the paystubs the next morning.<O:p</O:p
    January 8, 2010: I called PNC to find out the status of my mod. They told me that I still need to continue paying my trial payments till further notice. I ask why I didn't get a notice by mail. PNC then told me that the trial payments has been extended just recently and since they had me on the phone already, a verbal notice is good enough and no letters will be sent out to me confirming this extension and this conversation is being recorded as proof that I was informed and if I don't comply this recording will be used against me. Are they lying about this extension? <O:p</O:p

    Also, I would like file for bankruptcy, Chapter 7, on all my dept except for my house to make my life easier, what should I do during this MOD?<O:p</O:p
  11. Clearing

    Clearing LoanSafe Member

    My understanding is that we should continue making the trial payments until we hear about the permanent mod being approved or denied. And we need to make sure that our servicer has all the documents they need. You may want to read up on the HAMP guidelines if you have some time. You may find some interesting information there.

    See Question Q22 in this FAQ
    Q22. If the borrower files for bankruptcy protection during the trial period, is the trial period plan canceled automatically or is a servicer required to continue to work with the borrower?
    Borrowers who file bankruptcy during the trial period remain eligible for a HAMP modification provided they make all of the required payments in a timely fashion, are otherwise in compliance with the trial period plan and the certifications set forth in the Hardship Affidavit or the MHA Request for Modification and Affidavit, as applicable, remain true and correct. The servicer and its bankruptcy counsel must work with the borrower and the borrower’s bankruptcy counsel to obtain any required court approvals of the modification. A borrower actively involved in a bankruptcy proceeding prior to being placed in HAMP is eligible for HAMP at the servicer’s discretion. If a servicer provides an offer under HAMP to a borrower that is involved in an active bankruptcy case, the servicer must work with the borrower or borrower’s counsel to obtain all necessary approvals from the bankruptcy court.

    I think there were some other threads on this forum on this issue. Go dig them up!

    Did PNC give you any hint about when you might expect an answer on the permanent mod?
  12. ginnywilcox

    ginnywilcox LoanSafe Member


    I have not contacted HOPE because I thought they were for people who needed counseling and late in their payments.

    I will try them this week and see what answers we can get from PNC.

    My Congressman wrote me back stating he has requested a formal inquiry to the U.S. Department of Treasury and I am waiting to see what the response is to the complaint I sent to the Office of the Comptroller (they have to respond within 60 days and I am at 45 now).

    I am so frustrated I have neglected to keep calling, but will start again next week starting with the Hope Hotline hopefully I can get some answers.

  13. kmkat123

    kmkat123 LoanSafe Member

    What a mess! I also made my three trial plan payments. On their paperwork it states “These payments should be sent instead of, not in addition to, your normal monthly mortgage payment. If the trial period payments are made in amounts different from the amount stated your loan may not be modified”
    My last trial payment was 12/01/2009; I called several times in December to find out what was going on with my loan. I was told the loan was in review and to call back in a week or two, not to make any payments because they did not know what the payments were going to be. I received the same answer every time I called.
    I received a letter dated January 11, 2010 stating I was not approved for the HAMP program, the reason stated “Failed Underwriting Waterfall”. I had to look that up and I still do not understand it.
    The next day I received another letter dated January 13<SUP>th</SUP>, 2010 stating “ It is our duty to notify you that you have breached or defaulted in the performance of your obligation under the Note and Monthly evidencing and securing your loan in the following respect: Monthly installment payments have not been made including the payment for November 01, 2009. The action required to cure the breach or default mentioned above on or before February 12, 2010 is as follows: Payment in certified funds of $5,402.56 which includes the 2/01/2010 installment and applicable late charges, property inspection and non-sufficient fees.”
    The letter goes on about if I fail to pay it could result in acceleration of the maturity date of the note and or foreclosure.
    Mind you, I was not late on my mortgage payments nor was I facing foreclosure before the modification trial, now I am. Can they do this?
  14. Clearing

    Clearing LoanSafe Member

    Hi kmkat123,

    Did you make all 3 trial payments on time?
    What departments at PNC are these letters coming from? Often times one department does not know what another is doing. For example the Collections Department may not be aware that you were put on HAMP.
    Regarding the “Failed Underwriting Waterfallâ€, are you working with Hope Now (1-888-995-HOPE) or NACA? They should be able to confirm whether or not you should qualify for HAMP.
    Did you asked for a denial disclosure form from PNC? You should review the numbers they used for accuracy and challenge any erroneous data and get a do-over.
  15. quovadis

    quovadis LoanSafe Member

    I made my 3 payments also, back in december. Called them back they said its still under review, not to make any payments but keep my money just incase something changes. I did get a temp job which will end in a week. Got a letter from them that they need my tax and income information again, this is third time im sending it to them. I sent a letter from my HR stating that I have a temoporary job and it will end on 29th. Also sent in my check stubs and information from them unemployment office. I dont know what will happen, but this is goverment for you nothing can be done easy. I dont know how this will work out.
  16. kmkat123

    kmkat123 LoanSafe Member

    Yes I made all 3 trial payments. I called to ask about what numbers they used. They could not give me an answer. I am working with the Asset Resolution Team now. They do not even know the figures HAMP used. I am not working but my husband is. He is not on the loan but they said they can use his income. Well, he is a small business owner and I believe they went just by his paychecks not by tax returns. I am going to call Hope Now and check out the denial disclosure form.
    You are right one department does not know what the other is doing. You would think they would document on you loan under HAMP trial plan.
    Thank You
  17. quovadis

    quovadis LoanSafe Member

    Just got of the phone with PNC now I was told to continue making the trail payments, when I called on January 4th they said no trail payments are required just wait for the modification, they got a memo on January 8th letting them know to tell people to continue making trail payments. Lady on the phone told me they are so backed up with the modificatin they dont know what to do. I dont think they know how to go about the modifications, confusion and chaos. We shall see how it works out in the next couple weeks.
  18. Clearing

    Clearing LoanSafe Member

    Hi Quovadis,

    Looks like we are on the same schedule. I am making my 5th trial payment for February. At this point I am not too optimistic about the final outcome. PNC made only 43 mods permanent in December. How many did they denied a permanent mod?
    I am thinking probably by the end of Feb we should have an answer...
  19. quovadis

    quovadis LoanSafe Member


    I dont know if it will be a by Febuary, it seems like they dont know what they are doing there. I sent in my tax information and income information 3 times. While modifying my loand got a contract position, leaving my position on the 29th, had to send in my paycheck stubs, letter from hr stating im temping. Will need to send in my unemployment letters next week once they come in. Be honest with you I kind of knew this would happen, if the goverment gets their hands on somehting it never goes smooth, I just hope it works out at the end and the headaches were worth it.

    The lady told me that they have people that did their modification in March of last year and they still have not gotten an asnwer. That is reidiciulous but what can we do just sit and wait.

    As soon as I have an answer I will let you guy know. I think what is slowing this down is PNC buying out National City, this is where all of the information gets lost. I ranting it be what it be and we shall see :)
  20. justdeb

    justdeb LoanSafe Member

    First, let me say hi to everyone, I've been a lurker on here since August 09 when our hell began, have learned SOOO much through this forum - so Moe , thank you so much for this outlet, much appreciated! Glad to know there are others out there with PNC / National City and are going through hell like we are!

    Short run down: Hubby lost his job in August, 90K a year (ouch) I'm disabled, have been since 1997, so SSD doesnt pay alot. We purchased our home in 2007 doing an 80/20 conventional, but backed by Fannie, didnt go outside our means of income with the purchase, but when you lose a 90K a year job - everything becomes "outside your means" :/ right? First was with National City as was the 2nd, but...2nd wasnt locked, so we "refied" within 3 months of purchase with a credit union, locking the rate (now wish we hadnt done that), but..at the time, it seemed right to do. August was the last time we paid the 1st or 2nd Mortgage - called National City and the credit union;

    Aug: National City sent out HAMP paperwork

    Sept 17 - we get our official "trial package" and we began our official 3 month trial in October 2009 thru December 2009; credit union said "too bad..cant help ya" - so we said "too bad..cant pay ya" :D They'd rather take no payment than any sort of payment, so.. thats their problem, not ours - our requirement is to the 1st mortgage.

    October: get info from Customer Advocacy Rep via phone call that "underwriter" is missing some docs from the 17 Sep package, we pull up pkg and tell the CSR where they are (after all, they are there in the pkg..duh), she acknowleges she sees them, asks us if we can scan again and email directly to her, we do and receive confirmation return email that she receives and is forwarding to underwriter via fax, it completes our package, all we have to do is wait for the underwriter.

    November: National City is bought out by PNC - nightmare in itself. Everything gets transferred and we still are told its "under review with underwriter" - be patient.

    December: we finish the trial - have been calling weekly at least twice a week since August and documenting EVERY PHONE CALL and person we've spoken to since that time. Have been told that we must now make a 4th trial payment as per our signed HAMP trial package - we tell the CSR we only have 3 trials that we agreed to, he says "no, there's 4, I have the package in front of me." Hubby tells him if he has a signed 4 month agreement we want to see it because its forged and our next step will be a laywer for falsifying documents. Funny how that suddenly shut up the CSR and we were put on hold quickly. Hmmmm. Comes back on and begins with every story imaginable as to why this isnt done yet - and will require another 45 days from PNC due to being "backlogged". We tell CSR if we have to play by the rules - then so does PNC and we want a letter stating PNC is requesting an extension to our original HAMP agreement. Amazingly, we get the letter from PNC extending our trial into January and a reason behind it. Okay... we accept that and make our 4th trail payment, HOWEVER - we also send certified registered letters back to every PNC address we have on file, including with our payment - stating that we are making the 4th trial payment, per PNC's letter due to their backlog, however per the signed 17 Sep 09 HAMP trial documents, we did not agree to 4 trials, but will make the payment in the agreed upon amount. We also told PNC that any further extensions by PNC will be done so in writing should they decide to extend the contract out further due to their incompetence in completing HAMP packages. We sent this letter out on 18 Dec 09 and they received it 24 Dec 09.

    4 January 10 - receive a letter from PNC acknowledging our letter of 18 December 09 and putting it in our file.

    7 January 10 - receive another letter from PNC, this time stating they do not have certain forms and if we do not provide our income verification, hardship letter, financial verification form, tax documents and 4506-T form, we will be kicked out of HAMP.

    8 January 10 - fire off a 3 page letter back to PNC, complete with the original signed package of 17 September 09, every single certified letter and signature confirmation, every single over nighted payment with signature confirmation, all the forms (which were provided no less than 4 other times), all names (first and last), times, dates of each person we spoke to pertaining to each phone call we've made, as well as letting them know every phone call was recorded since August 09. NOW TELL US YOU DONT HAVE THE INFO!! Uh huh.... Sent the entire package to every PNC address we have, (it was 2 inches thick btw), overnight express delivery. Yes it cost us $60.00 to do it, but... its paying off to send every package this way.

    Call PNC to let them know this is unacceptable and to expect a package - our next step is legal to determine what our rights are as far as the property and that if PNC doesnt want to play by the rules, they can stick the house.

    11 January 10 - Get a call from CSR stating that "letter" was sent out in error and they are looking into it, all of our info is correct and in-hand, he "escalated our package and should have an answer within 24-48 hours from underwriting". We tell him that we are done playing games and we want a letter of extension sent out no later than 15 January for February's payment, we arent going to get kicked out of HAMP due to thier incompetence. He assures us the letter will be sent out (uh huh...) we tell him if it isnt... be prepared as they already know we have everything to back up our side...what do they have? He says he's received phone calls and our file is noted since receiving that "package from us". Hmmm.. funny how his entire tone has changed now.....

    15 - 25 January - still calling every day now - getting told its in underwriters hand, just waiting for final escrow calculation, should be any time now. We tell CSR and supervisors we've been transferred to that we are done, no letter was sent out, so we provide names, dates and times again.... (and again, since receiving our last letter/package we sent their entire tune has changed - very helpful, very professional and getting us answers now... funny!). Yesterday morning we call PNC again, because it was "D DAY" we were told we would have an answer no later than yesterday on our final mod, to which we did not have and were told again, "3-5 days longer" - unacceptable. Except this time we got a very helpful CSR who provided us with the name of the VP of PNC (which no one else would provide...hmmmm) and the phone number. We tell him we still havent received an extension letter for February after being told by 6 different people it would be done on 6 different occassions, so we are firing off 3 more letters that morning along with our 5th trial payment and make it very clear that we are done, once more and PNC can take the house. He tells us he sees it in our file and is doing it as we speak (we hear him typing) - he says "its done and I'm mailing it out to you now". Okay..but...we are still sending our letters out, with the payment and terms we provided back in December that PNC acknowleged. He says he agrees and would send it forward, but for us to call the VP and tell her the story. So we do...

    VP says unacceptable as she looks at our file.... asks us for the names of people...we provide them, says she will escalate to the head Underwriter for PNC and we will have an answer TODAY on our mod.

    5 minutes after hanging up, phone rings - its the guy we've been dealing with (CSR) - who suddenly has taken on QUITE THE DIFFERENT TUNE - stating he just received a phone call from the VP and was told he was to call us back immediately to let us know the answer will be forthcoming by the end of the day from the underwriter, our entire package was pulled personally by the VP.

    Around 1:30 we get a phone call from CSR stating head Exec. underwriter just called him stating our package was approved for permenant modification and we should be getting it via FED EX or UPS within 7 days, he was told to call us directly and let us know.

    SO.... we shall see if what was said is true.

    All I can tell you all is document EVERYTHING - and anything you send in do it via Certified Registered Return Receipt (about $6.00 per item you mail) - and anything that MUST get there quickly, do that via Express Overnight or 2 Day Delivery (its around $19.00 to do that at a flat rate no matter the weight). Get names, get last names, write down the conversation, write down extensions, ask for supervisors, if denied being passed to a supervisor, write that down..and call back - keep calling..be persistent..be a pain in the ass, but do it sternly, not rudely. let them know you are not playing games. Get your facts straight, arm yourself with knowlege and ammunition, do not let them win.

    AND WHATEVER YOU DO - DO NOT STOP MAKING YOUR TRIAL PAYMENTS - EVEN IF YOUR DOCUMENTS ONLY STATE 3 MONTHS - KEEP PAYING THEM - IF YOU DONT HAVE COUPONS - TYPE UP LETTERS AND SEND IT WITH YOUR PAYMENT! Then send a copy of the payment and another original signed letter to each PNC office that requires it (Atlanta is for payments, Miamisburg OH is Loan Perfection, and Dayton OH is another main office - its where we sent all of ours).

    If the 1st modifies, then we have the 2nd to deal with. The 2nd gave us a letter in December stating if we didnt pay by 21 Dec 09, they would start foreclosure, however.. we havent heard anything from them since. House was 258K in 2007, now appraised at 159K; 1st is 175K, 2nd is 75K - no way to collect. Just got our 1098's from both mortgages...no write offs as they didnt 1099-C us. We'll see how it goes.

    Will keep you all posted!

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