Home Loans and Support

2 1/2 years after the short sale with Chase trying to collect on 2nd

Discussion in 'Short Sale Outpost' started by JessPhil, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. JessPhil

    JessPhil LoanSafe Member

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mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> I’m checking back in after about 8 months.
    A little quick info:
    Condo in FL, residence in TN, short sale in July 2009 on condo, first mortgage and 2nd mortgage, both were originally Washington Mutual from 2006, then they were both Chase after buyout, they were Chase when short sale occurred July 2009.

    There were 2 Satisfaction of Mortgage documents recorded in FL, after short sale. The wording for the 2nd is the same as the first and is as follows:
    "Hereby Acknowledges full payment and satisfaction of said Note and Mortgage Deed and surrenders the same as cancelled, and hereby directs the Clerk of said Circuit Court to cancel the same of record."

    At last posting, we had started getting calls from a collector. We received a few letters with offers to settle the original $25K 2nd mortgage loan for 25K, then 19K. After coming on here we stopped answering the phone or having contact with them. We eventually received letters with a different collection agency's name on them. On Sept 8, we received a letter from Chase saying that a collection agency they had hired went out of business and possibly compromised our information.


    A month or two later another collector called and said they wanted to settle for $12,000. I told her we had a “paper” that said we do not owe the money. She wanted me to send it to her. I told her I had already provided it and she should look in the file. She said they didn’t have a file. This is when I came here and stopped answering calls.


    We recently received a settlement offer from Chase for $3,800 (15%) in the mail.

    Our short sale closing papers DO state they have the right to come after us for the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP]. We do have the document “Satisfaction of Mortgage” for the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP].
    We called and offered $2,000, while stating we did not owe the loan, but wanted to move on.
    Is there a way to negotiate a credit provision with the settlement?

    Is the “Satisfaction of Mortgage” worded above, just a waste of paper, like I have read on the internet? Due to the the closing letter stating they can come after us for the second.
    Any help would be appreciated.

    [FONT=&amp]Thanks


    [/FONT]
  2. MissyS

    MissyS LoanSafe Member

    Did you get any resolution to this? I have a very similiar issue.
  3. jaxjen

    jaxjen LoanSafe Member

    We have the same issue - also in Florida. Any resolution? From what I've read there are several ways the satisfaction of mortgage can read and there is hope that by using the wording within it PAID that the debt is forgiven. We had a short sell approval saying debt not forgiven but then obviously PAID and satisfaction of mortgage was dated after that. Just wondering how all turned out.
  4. JessPhil

    JessPhil LoanSafe Member

    This is the OP. They are still calling. It doesn't "seem" they have any documents. They keep pressuring us to send a copy of the letter mentioned at the beginning of this post. We did make an offer, but they refused it and want more. We are still waiting this out. We spoke with a "supervisor" today. She was hard-ankle, but we stuck to our offer.
  5. jaxjen

    jaxjen LoanSafe Member

    We used the copy of the satisfaction of mortgage with the same wording as yours to file a complaint or whatever it's called with the credit reporting agencies saying we didn't owe b/c we have the letter. They have until May 16 to respond. Should be interesting. Please let me know how yours turns out as I am in the exact same boat with a second in Florida. Everything in Florida is online. I wouldn't send the collection agency anything. Give them the website to the county the papers were filed in and tell them to look it up themselves.
  6. blueberrykin

    blueberrykin LoanSafe Member

    Jaxjen please let me know what the credit bureaus say. I am in the same boat as you. I have letters saying that my loans are paid in full yet my credit report says otherwise. I would like to get this mess cleaned up. GMAC started sending me statements on my second last summer after the short sale that March. I never sent them any money.
  7. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide Staff Member

    Perhaps I can offer some enlightenment here. When a property owner closes a short sale deal, the junior lender, who becomes a SOJL, will usually allow the escrow company to reconvey the lien so the deal can close. Frequently that junior lender will require the seller to sign a document confirming the debt, although now unsecured, is still owing.

    In JessPhil's case, the wording of the letter throws doubt on the continued existence of that debt. This wording
    creates uncertainty (this was a sloppy error by the lender's employee who penned that phraseology) and IMHO is favorable for JessPhil's case.

    If it were me, I'd no longer ever communicate with Chase or their collection outfits. JessPhil might send one final brief letter to Chase explaining how they have goofed. If they should eventually sue (doubtful) and JessPhil defends himself, he will most certainly prevail.

    It's important that any disputes be directed to the reporting creditor, not to the CRAs. Why? Because, although the CRAs might remove a disputed item, nothing will prevent that item from reappearing on the consumer's credit file after the next round of reporting (every 30 days). Go to the source, i.e. the furnisher of the information.
  8. MissyS

    MissyS LoanSafe Member

    We did this more than a couple of years ago and got no where. Now it has been over year since the bank has called us and now they decided to harass us again. It is all calls no documentation. It is very frustating to talk in circles over and over on the same topic and nothing is changing. It is on the credit report as open and pending. WIll this ever expire? The two loans I had short saled, both from the same bank. I do not know how they lost all paperwork and how they do not get what i tell them. WHen I fax the satisfactory of mortgage letter to them (which them originally created) it gets lost. I feel it is all a game.
  9. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide Staff Member

    MissyS

    Thanks for your post. I sympathize with your frustration.

    I recommend you not waste your time on the phone or faxing. Mail a copy of the satisfaction of mortgage CMRRR. Then, if they fail to comply, you might consider suing them for damages pursuant to the provisions of the FCRA.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
  10. czukidog

    czukidog LoanSafe Member

    Same problem here. 2009 Short Sale here in Florida. I too have 2 Satisfactions of Mortgage (1st and 2nd) duly notarized and filed in the county clerk's office that specifically state that Chase received "full payment and satisfaction of said NOTE....." About a year later first of 3 debt collectors started calling--Professional Recovery Services (PRS), then GS Services, and then Allied International Credit (AIC). For each collector I sent the validation request letters (certified/return receipt) and requested that telephone communication cease. Two of the 3 ignored my validation request and continued to call and send letters. I never answered the phone but kept a log of the calls through caller ID read outs and online searches for the phone numbers. Two collectors--PRS and AIC called numerous times on my cell phone (up to 7 calls a day). Chase also called for a few months between the second and third collector. I have read so many similar situations on this and other sites--situations where people actually borrowed money to stop the harassment--that I got mad. I am now suing Chase and all 3 debt collectors. Basic argument is 1. there is no debt because public records say so, 2. Chase had no legal right to direct or hire the collectors to collect a debt that does not exist. Also included in the suit are the violations of several consumer debt collection laws. Stay tuned--I'll let you know how it turns out. (PS-my lawyers told me that about 9 months ago Chase significantly changed the wording in the Satisfactions of Mortgage that they now file.)
  11. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide Staff Member

    czukidog

    Thanks for your informative post and welcome to the community.

    Please keep us posted on the status of your lawsuit!
  12. tony1151

    tony1151 LoanSafe Member

    Where did you get the copy for satisfaction of mortgage?
  13. czukidog

    czukidog LoanSafe Member

    Go online to public records for the county where your mortgage was filed. If they filed the satisfaction, there should be a copy there. (sorry it took so long to reply).
  14. Michigan?

    Michigan? LoanSafe Member

    any news on the suit?
  15. czukidog

    czukidog LoanSafe Member

    Final papers were just signed this week (Jan. 2013) to settle the law suit. There is a confidentiality clause. What I am allowed to say is only that "this matter has been amicably resolved without admission of wrongdoing by either Party."

    Sorry I can't say more....
  16. blueberrykin

    blueberrykin LoanSafe Member

    Thanks for the update czukidog.

    I met with a real estate attorney in Maryland on Friday. I have the same satisfaction paper where it says fully paid. He said that it means what it says - its paid. He said if GMAC tried to sue me they would lose. He also told me he does not see why I even need to get it fixed on my credit. He said once it has been 3 yrs he sees no issue with me getting another loan. He has clients that have foreclosures and bankruptcies getting loans already just after the 3 yrs is up.



    Maybe you could just get an attorney letter drawn up threatening to sue them for violations if it continues or just ignore them. I would not give them one dime.
  17. czukidog

    czukidog LoanSafe Member

    GOOD FOR YOU!! PASS THE WORD!! I hate to read where people borrowed money to pay even after they were forced into a short sale because of continuing harassment. If an attorney's letter and a copy of the satisfaction of mortgage (be sure it includes the NOTE as having been satisfied) will stop the harassment, wonderful!!!!!! Be sure to respond to all letters from debt collectors WITHIN 30 DAYS--certified letter....PROTECT YOURSELF!!
  18. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide Staff Member

    czukidog

    Thanks for your post. The advice you rendered is very misleading and totally unnecessary. In fact, it's just plain bad advice: "Be sure to respond to all letters from debt collectors WITHIN 30 DAYS--certified letter....PROTECT YOURSELF!!" Not sending a DVL to a "creditor" in no way infiinges on the debtor's legal rights. In fact, it's recommended a debtor NEVER send a DVL letter, pursuant to the strategy guide at post #1 in the Strategy thread.
  19. czukidog

    czukidog LoanSafe Member

    Responding by sending a request for validation letter within 30 days of receiving the first letter from a debt collector is IMPERATIVE--you need to read and follow the FEDERAL FAIR DEBT COLLECTION PRACTICES ACT (FDCPA). There are many protections against harassment, including the ability to sue harassing debt collectors. But often the harassment will stop early if you send a validation request letter--as outlined in the federal FDCPA. Many collectors CANNOT prove their right to collect and will fail to valid their right to collect the debt when challenged. It is up to the individual to get knowledgeable and to send that first REQUEST FOR VALIDATION letter within 30 days of receiving the first attempt to collect to protect their rights.

    The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act
  20. TomEason

    TomEason LoanSafe Guide Staff Member

    Thanks for your post. I am thoroughly familiar with both the FCRA and the FDCPA, having referred to both on many occasion. In my state we also have the Rosenthal Act, which is more restrictive on creditors than the FDCPA. Pursuant to those laws, a creditor is required to send a notice, but no regulation requires the consumer/debtor to send a DVL. Needless to say, I disagree with your opinion. The decision for the consumer to NOT send a DVL in no way infringes on their legal rights to sue under the provisions of the FDCPA or the FCRA. Now if you yourself feel harassed and cannot figure out a solution, you might send a C&D letter under to the creditor.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2013

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