POSSIBLE HAMP Fraud....BEWARE

[Sacdude]

For everyone who is being considered for Making Home Affordable Program......banks may be trying to get money out of you illegally. Here is what happened with me -

Sept 9 - Got pre-qualified for HAMP on the phone
Btw Sept 9 to Sept 24 - Kept on inquiring about the status of my workout. Was repeatedly told I am being reviewed (My first modification request was denied in August)

Sept 24 - I received a letter from the bank saying I am pre-qualified for the HAMP and my payment is $1400. I called the bank after receiving the letter and the rep asked me to make my first payment and only then I will receive the modification paperwork. It sounded fishy so I did not make a payment.

Sept 25 - I called the presidential office to inquire why they are not following the guidelines. As per HAMP guidelines, they are supposed to give me 30 days to make the payment. The rep earlier told me that I wont get those 30 days and I have to make a payment to even get the breakdown of my $1400 payment and other terms. The executive at the presidential office seemed surprised and told me he will have someone look into it and call me.

Sept 26 - I call the WFHM dept again. This time a different rep - he told me that I have until Oct 29, 2009 to make the payment...that is full 30 days. Told me I was one of the lucky few to get those mailers and that I have to make 3 payment and submit some documents. He didn't force me for the payment and it seemed legit. Like a dumb moron, I made the payment on the phone. He said everything is set and I do not need to worry about the mod. I will be overnighted the documents the week of Sept 30. I was happy and hung up.

Sept 28 - Wells Fargo Servicing dept calls me to tell me that my file is still under review. I was shocked and I told them I already made my first HAMP payment which went out today through the automatic payment method. HE was surprised and said he cannot find anywhere on the account that I have been set up on the payment plan. He asked me to call back after 24 hours to make sure that its not a system error.

Sept 29 - Today I called again and talked to other rep. First asked him to give me the status of my workout. He said my file is in review. I was mad....and explained to him everything that happened. I also told him that I already made a payment based on the letter you guys sent me. He talked to his supervisor and told me it could be that the notes were not taken properly. We will find out and call us back in about 72 business hours!

So lesson learnt - even if they say you are approved unless and until you sign the paperwork and everything is clear do NOT make a payment. If they come back and deny me modification, I will seriously consider hiring an attorney for defrauding me.

[Evan Bedard]

Hi sacdude,

Sept 26 - I call the WFHM dept again. This time a different rep - he told me that I have until Oct 29, 2009 to make the payment...that is full 30 days. Told me I was one of the lucky few to get those mailers and that I have to make 3 payment and submit some documents. He didn't force me for the payment and it seemed legit. Like a dumb moron, I made the payment on the phone. He said everything is set and I do not need to worry about the mod. I will be overnighted the documents the week of Sept 30. I was happy and hung up.

That is where you need to be very careful as many reps seem to have no idea what they are talking about. Do not send in a payment for new terms until you get the agreement in writing. No agreeement will be valid until signed and sent back by the homeowner..

[CnTwins]

I attended a workshop in Phoenix Thurs Sept. 10th. They denied me for HAMP but didn't have a reason. We checked all the income numbers and found they were off by over $2000, so they re-ran it and I was denied AGAIN. I demanded they give me a reason. They called a mgr over and he realized that the "tool" was pulling the original BPO done back in April of approx $680k instead of the current one they had done that day that came back at $422k (which is a lot more likely as my model is selling for $300k on my street). He reran it and again I was denied but it again only pulled the old BPO. The mgr explained that with the $422k BPO and a loan balance of almost $500k we would automatically be approved. They flew back home, got the "tool" fixed and we got the call last week that we were approved for HAMP. They dropped our payment over $1800! My concern is that I saw a lot of people leaving the workshop upset - so how many of those people that were denied that night was because Wells Fargo HAMP "tool" was NOT working that night??? I only got to the bottom of it because, with the help of this forum, I KNEW where I stood with my numbers and should have not had a problem getting approved. How many of those poor people didn't know to push and demand answers. My sis wrote a press release to the local channel 5 news station explaining that this may be a huge issue and needs to be addressed before any more time passes and any of those people lose their homes! It's being said that basically Channel 5 was the reason WF set that whole workshop thing up by giving Wells Fargo such local bad press along with that now famous judge that flew the WF big wig out and demanded some answers in one of his local WF foreclosure trials. (Those articles and videos can be found on KPHO channel 5's website.
Besides this possible MAJOR hiccup in their system I have one other major concern. I've been reading that if you get qualified for HAMP that you MUST have a lawyer review the docs before you sign them as they include some vague wording such as after 3 months mod. payments we MAY permanently modify your loan. Should I get a lawyer to review the docs, which I received this week??? It states something along the lines that they will report us late 90 days during the 3 month trial payment period, what is that going to do to our 820 credit score? We've never even been late once on any home, ever. Do we have any rights to stop them from doing that? I was told by a friend that they can still foreclose on you during the trial payment period because you're not paying the full amount, but we have always been current and still are - will they do that?

And if so where would I find such a lawyer that is up on the HAMP laws?

Thank you for any help or advice you can give me and this awesome forum - I was only successful because of Moe and the people that spend their valuable time helping all of us on here!

[davephx]

Geeze that is incredible on the broken system.

When you mention BPO I wonder if that was for an inhouse mod. Someone can correct me but from all I hear and reading all the HEMP servicer releases they can and seem to use an automated appraisal system (sort of like Zilliow, although I hear the Chase one is more what they use).

When I run the Chase system on various sample homes including mine I do get very low valuations which of course is good for the Net Present Value test. As your situation shows having up to date values is especially important in Phoenix area since we have had such huge declines from the bubble in 2006-2007.

If you find a good lawyer let us know! I am finding most real estate/bankruptcy lawyers are so overwhelmed in Phoenix it takes 3-4 weeks just to set up an initial appointment.

It is always good to have a lawyer read docs if you have the time and can afford it. If you are not in foreclosure status you are lucky and may have some time.