Newbie Countrywide SUCCESS!!!!

[Kimbly]

Hi all! I'm very glad to have found this site for support and advise! My partner and I have a 3/27 I/O with Countrywide which resets *gulp* day after tomorrow. I have just learned (after several phone calls these past months) about the "Work Out" program and am gathering bank statements and writing my letter to send tomorrow.

Tips?

Welcome and thank you for joining the forum.....

I have a formula...call, call, call and fax, fax, fax....do not take no for an answer and if the first party that you speak to there does not appear to know the answer and/or you question the answer call back in and get someone that does.

This is a roller coaster ride and you have to be the proactive adult at this party, they will not call you back when they say they will, they are very poor at follow through and above all you have to be the one to check on status during the process or it will fall through the *****s.

In other words this is a second job.

We do recommend that you execute a QWR that seems to compel them to act a little more favorable and faster. Make sure that your financial data if it does have abnormal income or expenses is clearly documented, if they were one time expenses or income. Provide third party documentation of any hardship that you can, illness, death, loss of job of household member....Make sure that you document everything they say, you say and they promise. Follow it up with a fax to them outlining what they have promised so that it is clear and they have record that this is what you understand. Every fax, every page needs borrower name, property address, loan number and last four of primary borrower SS# added to that page, it will get lost so fax it 3 times. Same with the mail.

QWR -- there are examples of the letter in the Tool Box. In that letter demand your Life of Loan History, copy of Note, Deed of Trust, Riders, all Assignments of the Deed of Trust, TIL, Right of Rescission (if refi), Lender Final HUD-1, copy of initial loan application and final lender loan application, all disclosures and all loan documents in your file, copy of appraisal. Send this three times certified return receipt required and also send it to the Broker, Title Company and all others in the Chain of the Transaction.

[Kimbly]

Thanks for the response Poppy.

I have faxed my hardship letter and documents this morning and will do so at least one more time today. I will also work on the QWR this weekend.

Interestingly when I spoke with them and they did my interview regarding what I spend on what (bills, cost of living, etc) and then provided the fax number to send my info, they specifically stated that if I called within the first 30 days, my file would be pulled off the appropriate desk and I would be causing the entire process to be extended. That certainly doesn't seem to be the case for those that have been successful! I will take your advice and fax, fax, fax and call, call, call!

Our financial situation hasn't changed since we purchased the home. However, we were (in our opinion) unscrupulously pushed into this adjustable mortgage. We requested a 30 year fixed and received Good Faith Statements for both the 30 year fixed and the 3/27 I/O. As the payment amount was a difference of only about $120, we decided on the fixed. Each time something changed (we had pending offers on 8 houses, at varying pricing due to the insanity of the market, that fell through), we received a new Good Faith for the I/O. Everytime I pushed back and reminded the broker that we had elected to go with the fixed. As each one fell to the wayside, she said she would 'fix it' on the next. We weren't too concerned since none of them moved forward. However, when we finally got an accepted offer and got through the inspection period, I asked her several times for the revised Good Faith showing the 30 year fixed. When we were about a week out from closing, I got the final Good Faith which still had the 3/27 listed and, when I called to discuss, she told me that it was too late to change it. That, if we changed it now, our closing would be delayed and, due to the hot market, we'd likely lose our house. (This was occurring when houses here in AZ were on the market only hours and had 10-15 offers). She even pointed out that other houses in the neighborhood were selling for 10-15% higher already - surely we'd be able to refi in 3 years!! Now, of course, we are upside down by about 25%.

Knowing what we know now, we wouldn't have signed the docs. We would have risked losing out on this house and likely wouldn't have anyway - would the seller rather wait 2 weeks or go through it all again? But, we were inexperienced, naive and overwhelmed. We take responsibility for signing but will be in dire straights with the new payment and, even more so, when it goes up again in September. I only wish I had documented all the correspondence - emails/phone calls - with the broker (who, by the way, has fallen off the face of the planet).

For the first time in a long time though, I feel empowered. This site is giving me the tools I need to face this head on. And, I will be victorious!!

[Moe Bedard]

Interestingly when I spoke with them and they did my interview regarding what I spend on what (bills, cost of living, etc) and then provided the fax number to send my info, they specifically stated that if I called within the first 30 days, my file would be pulled off the appropriate desk and I would be causing the entire process to be extended.

Hi Kimberly!

This is a joke that they have told you this. I would immediately get your "QWR" letter going and DO NOT beat around the bush with them. The facts are the the people that do not call, get lost in their system that is bottle necked right now. If you write the qwr they CANNOT report you late and they have to address your issues.

When we were about a week out from closing, I got the final Good Faith which still had the 3/27 listed and, when I called to discuss, she told me that it was too late to change it. That, if we changed it now, our closing would be delayed and, due to the hot market, we'd likely lose our house. (This was occurring when houses here in AZ were on the market only hours and had 10-15 offers). She even pointed out that other houses in the neighborhood were selling for 10-15% higher already - surely we'd be able to refi in 3 years!! Now, of course, we are upside down by about 25%.

By all means, SUE HER!!!!! Very unethical and unprofessionals. I am sure she may have violate and the law or committed fraud with an attitude like that.

You'll get through this!!!

[Kimbly]

Thank you for the response and encouragement, Moe. I am confident we will get through it because, for us, there is no other option. I will not let them beat me.

Without documentation, is it possible to pursue an E&O suit against a broker? I actually work in insurance and can state that seemingly unfounded claims are settled everyday but it would be, in essence, her word against ours (if she could even be located!). Of course, she also referred us to the appraiser who may have culpability as well.

I'm not a litigious person, but I do feel we were wronged and are/will suffer for it financially so perhaps I should consult with an attorney to see if there is a likely case. Plaintiff lit attorneys, though - many sit, I believe, on that not-so-fine line between honest and unethical.

If you feel after everything is said and done or before, get a qualified document review and determine if there are violations and the potential of fraud or misrepresentation on the part of the Broker.....does not hurt and sure can cause some grief for the lender... I say have at it, sometimes gives you the ability to get a better modification deal, then again you may want to get the deal and then let them have it.....

[Kimbly]

Hello again!

I'm finishing my QWR to get in the mail today. Just a quick question - when you say send to the broker and all involved, am I just cc'ing them or addressing the request to them as well? Sorry to be dense! I just want to make sure I'm doing it the right (and most effective!) way.

An update on my mod request to CW - I sent it Friday and called yesterday to confirm it was received (I have three fax confirmations); they confirmed. The rep said that a negotiator would be assigned in 1-10 business days and that I could call back on Friday to find out who it is. I followed up the call with a fax confirming our conversation (the letter will also be mailed certified).

Do I wait until Friday for the assignment or should I call sooner? If no negotiator is assigned, will my file be documented that I phoned (of course, each phone call with be followed with a fax and certified mail).

I'm just starting this mess, I know, but I'm deriving some pleasure out of A) feeling empowered and B) the thought of being a pain in the rump!

Send the QWR in all of its glory to all involved, get every document that you can from every source that you can....some of them are probably closed and out of business and that begs the question where are the documents, they have been found in basements, closets, dumpsters.....let your imagination run wild, they should be with a safe, secure document archivist (firms provide that service are available) and the state agency that regulates that side of the world, Broker, Title and others are advised of the repository where it is stored. But, the vast majority of them are to cheap to do the right thing.

Call daily, fax the conversations...they have to note that stuff in your file, keep them busy and understanding that you are in control and be that major pain in the rump...you have the power....

[Kimbly]

Thank you, Poppy!

We will see if the letter to the mortgage broker is deliverable. She has literally evaporated. Poof!

Another question, if I may, oh wise one(s). HSBC holds my 2nd mortgage. It is not an adjustable rate, but it is a ghastly 11.5%!! I'm wondering, since I'm writing all these lovely letters, about requesting a reduction in rate from them as well. Is this even worth my time? We have never paid late and I also have a credit card with them (Household Bank). Interestly, they they recently reduced my interest rate from 22% to 15% and then again to 9% without my request (if I carry a balance it's under $100 so I wasn't concerned enough to bother requesting it).

Anyway - is this a worthwhile endeavor? Are interest rate reductions being offered on any fixed loans? It's a 15/1, by the way, and I'm 3 years in. I do pray that this market is better by year 15, but can't focus on that for now. First things first!

If I do request a reduction, do I specifically ask for a certain rate? Or just that they reduce it to a lower level? Can I play the "my CW rate is resetting" and keep them in the dark regarding the mod I've requested?

Thoughts?

Oh, and by the by, ya'll rock!

HSBC is worth a stab at, I would just give it a try...here are some interesting contacts and the 11.50% on a Second is not that awful...not that good, the Seconds are always higher, greater risk and priced accordingly...

HSBC is fairly entrenched in their refusal to modify or reduce rate, they are a British firm with serious issues at hand on returns that they anticipated from these loans...go figure.

Here are the contacts....oh, do not go into the Country Wide issues, just see what happens, mention your good customer relationships with them and customer loyalty, all that jazz, they like that kind of tripe....

Stasia Bailey, 1-813-571-8998 in the executive offices of HSBC.

paul.j.lawrence@us.hsbc.com - this guy is the CEO of HSBC, send him and e-mail, the more he gets the more he gets the idea that there is a problem and it needs to be addressed NOW.

[Kimbly]

Thanks again!

The QWR has been faxed to CW and copies are ready for the post office for 3 CW offices, the last known business address for our broker and the corporate office for our title/escrow company (locally they have closed up shop).

I took the time to type up a personal budget today based on our last two checking & savings account statements vs. our take home pay. I did it for our use; going through this, and seeing how much worse it could be if one of us were to lose our job or have a long term illness, made me realize that I need to get a better handle on all my debts for long-term financial security. Anyway! I'm wondering if it would be prudent to send it to Countrywide to show that we can afford the current pricing but can not afford the reset? What kind of surplus should we be showing after our mortgage(s), car payment, medical bills/expenses, groceries and gas expenses? I wonder if anyone knows the right formula.

Lest anyone think I'm being sneaky, I'm just wondering if we need to pay off a couple debts early (likely by borrowing from my parents against my tax return) so that we have more surplus or if sitting pretty tight is okay.

Thanks for all your help!!

How tight....200.00 to 250.00 monthly surplus generally gets the job done.....you want modification and the chance at getting the rate down, down, down and for as long as possible....

Doing that budget is a real eye opener, and you will if you are really clever with finances, find a way in the future to put a little in a "touch me not" account for those really tough times that life delivers to our door step.

I would suggest that you request the modification package, fill it out and let the play begin....just remember this is a second job and you need with these folks to call, call, call and fax, fax, fax....

Please keep us posted and let us know how the process is treating you...

[mreedlaw]

Good morning Kimbly:

Looks like yesterday was a quite a productive day, and I hope today brings good results on this process (as Poppy calls it, your second job) - keep pushing forward and best wishes, Michael

[Kimbly]

Thanks Michael and Poppy!

Yes, yesterday was productive and VERY eye opening. My partner and I have combined finances and I gave up control a couple years ago. While she pays everything on time, and over the minimums, I haven't been monitoring our debt. I knew that we each had some cards with balances, but I had NO idea how far in debt we really are nor how far over our means we've been living. We actually had our first semi-argument about money last night (we've been together for almost 10 years). I hope there aren't more to come; I was just in shock and am feeling this stress. She's taken the more passive role and is hoping I'm successful.

So, onward and upward. Regardless of the outcome of our mod, there are things to be addressed in our spending and that starts today. I've put together a new budget for us to follow that is reasonable and does leave about $200 per month surplus. After my tax return and paying off a couple of items, we'll have about $500 surplus IF our payment stays nearly the same with CW. The good news in that is, if this takes some time (and I expect it will), we can make the payment and not fall behind. Once I'm successful in the mod, we'll be able to put that surplus towards an emergency fund and/or other debt.

Some things in our lives must happen for us to learn, I suppose. Perhaps that's the usefullness of our mortgage debacle for us - learning about controlling our finances rather than being controlled and making a much more informed decision the next time we buy! Keeping it on the positive...

[Kimbly]

Heee heee - I just llluuuuuvvvv calling CW. Lol.

Today: me: "I'm calling to see if a negotiator has been assigned yet", after holding for about 20 minutes while the rep checked (wow - does it really take that long?), she came back to say not yet and to call back in 7-10 business days. "I see you've been calling daily and faxing letters. If you wait about 10 days, someone should be assigned. There's no need to call daily.". Me: "oh, I don't mind. I'm interested in saving my home and want to stay on top of things.".

I also finally got a response today regarding who the investor is on our loan - Bank of New York. From what I've read, that is probably a good thing.

Off to type up another letter to fax.

[Moe Bedard]

Hi Kimbly!

Great job you're doing. Quick question. How did you find out who the investor was?

[Kimbly]

Hi Moe!

I've been asking the folks at CW if my loan was sold or if they kept it since "Operation HOPE" was announced in December as that was listed as one of the requirements. Each rep I talked with told me that CW kept my loan. I've continued to ask as I found that very hard to believe AND my doubts were confirmed in reading a post by Poppy that said that CW kept very few and only the most troubled loans.

I've talked to the Workout Department 4 times now and have asked each time if they could tell me who my invester is. The first time I was told CW, the second time I was told that they had no information on that, the third time I was told that they weren't allowed to disclose the information and today, finally, the (actually quite pleasant) rep (Shuntay) told me it's The Bank of New York.

I work in a field where I need to be quite assertive and sometimes aggressive while keeping things 'friendly'. Calling them frequently is no problem for me; I'll be nice as nice can be but I will pester the crud out of them!

Thanks for creating this site!! It's been a Godsend.

They will tell you who the investor is and for that matter an O&E will pop out who the last assignment of the Deed of Trust was made to. That is an old trick and the Title Companies have a way of doing it from the base that they work of off.

The trick is to have a rep just pull and O&E on the property for purposes of a quick and down and dirty chain of title on the owner and the Encumbrances.

Bank of New York has a reputation of buying a lot of Country Wide Loans I am finding, however, Country Wide retains the servicing, which tells me that the pool was a good pool to start with, no inherent flaws in compliance or in the underwriting structure...no less than tier 2 loans.

[Kimbly]

Originally Posted by Poppy

...no less than tier 2 loans.

Can you explain what this means?

Does this have any impact/bearing on possible mod?

[mreedlaw]

I love your response to them saying that you don't need to call daily.

"Oh I don't mind, I'm interesting in saving my home" - that is one of my favorite lines, nice!

No it is a term that we use in the sale of loans to investors...it refers to the quality of loan being sold...they are rated....I am assuming that Bank of New York wants tier 1 and no less than tier 2. Some of them refuse the tier 2's, but all in all that was probably the content of the transaction in this case. There are worse, tier 3 and Scratch and Dent.....

[Kimbly]

Tired of me yet? I bet CW is getting there!

So, I finally busted out my loan docs in order to start refreshing this in my mind and to see what we have and may be missing (like an initial escrow statement -- odd). Anyway, I have read and reread my "Interest Only Adjustable Rate Note" over and over and I believe I understand it fully (as I've been dreading this month for 3 years!). However, it contradicts the "Amortization Schedule" (which I only really read today). The ARM statement says that "The interest rate I am required to pay at the first Change Date will not be greater than 8.100% or less than 6.600%. Thereafter, my interest rate will never be increased or decreased on any Change Date by more than a single one & on-half percentage points (1.500%) from the rate of interest I have been paying for the preceding six months. My interest rate will never be greater than 13.60% or less than 6.600%." "...the interest rate I will pay may change on the first day of March, 2008, and on that day every sixth month thereafter. Each date on which my interest rate could change is called a "Change Date". Okay, got it.

BUT, the amortization schedule shows 6.6% for payments 1-36, 8.10% for payments 37 through 72 (!!!!), 9.60% for payments 73-78 and 9.625% for the rest of the loan.

SO, I'm not sure which is accurate. Will my rate increase again in 6 months or only as per the amortization schedule which says after 3 more years???

I'm SO confused! This is worse than disecting an insurance policy!!

Well teach me to underwrite insurance and I will gladly interpret this for you....you have a 3 Year I/O ARM with adjustment after the third year and every 6 months thereafter and it adjusts to a fully amortizing loan after the 3rd year and therefore amortized over 27 years on the principle that you owe at that lovely new rate.....

Now for the really thrilling news, it does this every 6 months thereafter and it is also recast every time, that is the new amortization is re-computed at each adjustment 26.5 years, 26 years, 25.5 years and so on to the new rate set....

After the first adjustment there is a cap, now that is not really as good as people think it is, cause you can only go up 1.50% on the change, but since they did not get the full margin adjustment....they have recapture of what they did not get the next adjustment (no there is no language in the note for that, it is a function of this type of instrument and how the math works...), these were set up to very toxic. Apparently when you got this loan you had a fairly good FICO as the start rate does not appear to be fully indexed...just rather indexed....don't ask, it just means it could have been worse, small condolence I know...

So that payment stream on the TIL may be a little off, but not far off. Want to teach me insurance underwriting...I am a quick learner....I do understand risk management.....and mortgage loans...

[Kimbly]

Originally Posted by Poppy

Apparently when you got this loan you had a fairly good FICO...

So that payment stream on the TIL may be a little off, but not far off. Want to teach me insurance underwriting...I am a quick learner....I do understand risk management.....and mortgage loans...

Huh? lol - you are speaking Greek to me!

Okay - yes, I had a decent FICO and good debt to income. That's why I wanted the fixed rate at the get go but I won't get into that whole nightmare again.

TIL?

So, the amortization schedule basically means nothing to me, is this what you're saying? Or the payments as listed on the amortization may be close (obviously they do not include my escrow impound, which is fine)?

And sure, come on down to AZ and hang with me for a while. I actually love workig in insurance and analyzing policy language. I'm damn good at it too. This mortgage paperwork is a whole 'nother world though! Ironically, I write professional liability - yep, that's right, real estate agents, mortgage brokers and title agents!! If only I knew then what I know now!!

Kiddo I just moved out of AZ, I was there 5 years up off up in the Desert North....miss the house, not the heat, miss the winters, not the summers.....

I did not mean to speak Greek, just that the loan is a fairly toxic sort of product, not the worst, but you got off fairly well with the rate, caps, etc....however they will extract the maximum amount of income from you in interest rate over the life of the loan.

No the payment streams on the TIL's do not match dot to dot on the real life of the loan, they are very skewed to take in the worst case as the logarithms weight them when they are spit out of the system. They try to stay within the tolerances that are acceptable to Reg Z reporting of the APR using models from prior years.....it is an index and cap driven affair.....

All in all you are not in the worst that they had out there, but certainly not the best either. Was this a new home? Who was the builder if so?

Actually I looked into underwriting insurance, frankly it would not be that bad a transition, but the career change was not in the cards, moved back to my erst while home this November and am now underwriting in another capacity.