Walking in Washington and need advice on how to fight to the bitter end.

[Master Safe Cracker]

This is my first post but I have been lurking around for a while and really appreciate all the info this site has to offer. Now the question.

Here is my situation:
I am married and live in Washington State.
We have a 6 year old 80/20 interest only loan and have never been late on a payment.
1st is with M&T Bank and second is through WF. The first has been sold 4-5 times since we purchased the house.
Total owed on the house is $430k and Zillow shows the house value is $264k
We have perfect credit. Score 800-850.
I recently took a pay cut at work in order to keep from being laid off.
Now we are strugling to get by and with two kids in college it gets worse every day.
I have tried to modify but get nothing but BS and constant run around tactics played on us.
I was wondering if we decide to walk if there is any advantage to hiring a lawyer to fight every single step tooth and nail. I am so frustrated at this point and figure if we are going to wreck our credit I want them to pay for the madness they have put us through with all their evil tactics. I have read the entire Hampster wheel thread but have heard that foreclosures are moving pretty fast in Washington right now and M&T goes for the throat right away. I would like to get 18 months if at all possible.
Any help would be greatly appreciated,

Master Safe Cracker

[Evan Bedard]

I was wondering if we decide to walk if there is any advantage to hiring a lawyer to fight every single step tooth and nail. I am so frustrated at this point and figure if we are going to wreck our credit I want them to pay for the madness they have put us through with all their evil tactics. I have read the entire Hampster wheel thread but have heard that foreclosures are moving pretty fast in Washington right now and M&T goes for the throat right away. I would like to get 18 months if at all possible.

Welcome and thanks for joining the community.

Good job doing your research and reading around very informational threads such as the "Hampster Wheel" posts.. I personally believe there is not much an attorney can do for you when walking away that you cannot do for yourself, especially given the fact WA generally always forecloses on residential homes using the non-recourse process and both your mortgages are purchase money.. The foreclosure process does not seem to be speeding up and we have many members who have gone on 12+ months without making payments.. Using strategies listed in the Hampster Wheel thread can help you drag out the process as long as possible..

Here are some threads with other members who have walked away or are in the middle of doing so in WA state.

Calling all Washington Walkers! Lunch 1/29 Sunday **RSVP HERE**

In Washington - Is walking away doable?

Walking in WA - Questions about judicial foreclosure, abandonment and primary residence

Hoping to walk away in WA - BECU loan

Walking away, my strategic foreclosure in North Seattle, Wells Fargo (refinanced)

Joining the club: Strategic default in Seattle, WA.

These Boots are Made for Walkin'......... In Washington

Foreclosure in Washington State

[BustedBrokeBeaten]

Welcome Master Safe Cracker! Fellow Washingtonian here. We started our walk in May 2011 and still not NOI. We have 80/20 loans with BOA as the servicer at this time. I did a free consultation with an attorney only to satisfied what I had learned up to that point. Since being a LoanSafe member, I've learned so much that I never thought once to hire an attorney. We simply ignore all calls, don't answer the door to anyone we don't know, etc. I am no longer scared of what's to come, I am instead armed with knowledge and support from other LS members.

Our house is empty. We chose to move out immediately for personal reasons. We haven't saved the same kind of money others have because of this decision, but we are happier and do save at least the amount we aren't paying on the 2nd. We keep the lawn mowed, the lights on, the heat going in the winter to keep pipes from freezing, but otherwise the journey has been relatively easy. The bank has paid our taxes and home owner's insurance. Missing the first payment was the hardest. We don't feel guilty, we don't apologize for our decision. Life has truly been better since walking.

I wish you well on your journey and will be eager to follow your posts. ~ BBB

[Master Safe Cracker]

Many thanks for the replies!! The sad part is we don't want to give up the house but looking at it from a purely business standpoint it's a bad investment. Is there any real hope of getting a legit modification after missing 2-3 payments? We have decided to stop paying the 1st mortgage this month in hopes that at the mediation that is available in Washington a real modification can be had. I have little hope of going as long as all the BOA guys are going though. When M&T bought our mortgage there was a glitch where we payed BOA our payment as we didn't even know our mortgage had been sold yet. M&T jumped on us like a pitbull on a porkchop straight away. They called constantly even though we were only 3 days past the grace period. We are going to keep the 2nd mortgage current until after we get a mod on the 1st and then try to settle with the second. Has anyone been successful at this type of plan?

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

MSC, another Washington walker here. I'm doing a strategic default and if you are interested, I'm logging my story here:

My Strategic Default in Olympia Washington (1st BOA, 2nd Green Tree)

I agree with BBB about hiring an attorney. Not really needed with the tons of case history you will find here on this website. However, I will say this, I did a $100 initial consultation (wasn't free like BBB) and after that had a great feeling of affirmation that I was doing the right thing. I pepppered the attorney with questions about my specific scenario with BOA and GreenTree, possibility of getting sued on a 2nd, mortgage debt relief act (MDRA), etc. It was well worth the $100 and peace of mind.

I have some personal knowledge about the WA forclosure mediation program and if you qualify and are interested in pursuing a modification with the end goal of remaining in your home, its worth the effort. Folks are getting modifications through the program and worst case you could drag your process out (aka HAMPster wheel) if you go through the process.

Others my see otherwise, but you will need to be prepared to show a hardship to get a mod. My wife and I have let go of the emotional attachment to our home. At times, it shocks me how quickly I went from loving my house to seeing it in a purely objective light....its a financial boat anchor! Anyway with that said, unless you have a hardship, i'm not seeing a lot of help out there. So it sounds like you could document a rough financial picture and encourage the bank to work with you. But there are some banks that are hiring sharks for attorneys to mediate and shut it down. I think this is the exception and not the rule.

I'm hoping my process will drag out long enough for the feds and banks to wake up and smell the smoldering ashes and say...."hey, maybe its better to keep responsible borrowers in their homes"....duh. If they have a proper change of heart, we would be glad to stay in our home of they forgive the negative equity.

Take care and stay close to the LoanSafe forums!

[Master Safe Cracker]

Thanks SDI, My hardship was a 15% pay cut at work. It doesn't seem like much but that took us from being able to make ends meet to borrowing and making the situation worse. I also have two kids that just started college and we have too much income to qualify for anything at all to help pay so we are making both do the first 2 years a community college and paying out of pocket. Do you think the bank will consider this a hardship in any way? Our debt to income is really bad right now.

[StrategicDefaultInWA]

MSC....there are lots of good threads here about working out a modification. Its really about debt to income ratios. Its in the banks best interest to work it out, but that doesn't mean banks are doing the logical thing. It sounds like you have a legitimate case for pursuing a modifcation base on your statement about DTI.

For what its worth and some sympathy votes here, I have 1 in college, two about to start this year (and a few more to boot) and it was sobering to look at how much I'm spending on my ball and chain home. I think you are doing the right thing in strategically defaulting. The one real gem of advice my attorney gave me was that you won't get any sympathy our help as long as you are current. Its sad but true, that banks and the feds are basically encouraging repsonbile borrowers like you and me to do the wrong thing...and when I say "wrong", I do NOT mean morally, just financially. I mean, its good for us in that we see immediate debt relief, and positive cash flow, but bad for the economy. Anyway, its not MY problem any longer, its the banks.

They will harrass you, scare you, try to guilt you into paying because statistically they know it works. I would strongly encourage you to do the best thing for you and your family, not for the bank. Pay the $100, meet with an attorney and get an objective opinion about what the best financial move is for you and your family.

[Master Safe Cracker]

Thanks again SDIW for your help in trying to figure this mess out. I now realize we are doing the right thing. If in turn the bank decides to do the right thing and do a real mod we will make an agreement and stay. But if they don't I will dig my heals in and drag it out as long as possible. I am not asking for anythong more tha an interest rate reduction and forgiveness for any payments missed during the process. I hope it works out. My payment is due in four days and i have my C&D letter all ready to go.

[Master Safe Cracker]

Welcome and thanks for joining the community.

Good job doing your research and reading around very informational threads such as the "Hampster Wheel" posts.. I personally believe there is not much an attorney can do for you when walking away that you cannot do for yourself, especially given the fact WA generally always forecloses on residential homes using the non-recourse process and both your mortgages are purchase money.. The foreclosure process does not seem to be speeding up and we have many members who have gone on 12+ months without making payments.. Using strategies listed in the Hampster Wheel thread can help you drag out the process as long as possible..

Here are some threads with other members who have walked away or are in the middle of doing so in WA state.

Calling all Washington Walkers! Lunch 1/29 Sunday **RSVP HERE**

In Washington - Is walking away doable?

Walking in WA - Questions about judicial foreclosure, abandonment and primary residence

Hoping to walk away in WA - BECU loan

Walking away, my strategic foreclosure in North Seattle, Wells Fargo (refinanced)

Joining the club: Strategic default in Seattle, WA.

These Boots are Made for Walkin'......... In Washington

Foreclosure in Washington State

Thanks EB. I read all the threads listed tonight. Very helpfull insight.

[Master Safe Cracker]

Well we just missed our second payment and nothing yet other than a past due notice from the bank. I want a modification but in the past they would not give me the time of day because we were current on payments. Should I try to apply for a mod after 90 days or should I wait until they offer one. As I said before I would be happy to let the house go but my wife wants to try and hold on to it if possible...

[Evan Bedard]

They are not going to offer a modification unless you apply for one and supply all needed financial information such as paystubs, bank statements, tax returns, etc. If you have not done so already I would recommend applying for a modification so you can get the process started right away as it could easily take 3+ months before a decision is made.

[Modsnrockers]

Masater Safe Cracker, thanks for sharing your story. Keep us informed! I am also in Wasington State and have a thread started. It wasn't listed along with the other Washington links so I will give it here:
Washington state - First day past grace period is today

My wife and I were enjoying a late afternoon beverage with an attorney friend of ours. He is not the one that advised us on our situation, since I don't like mucking up personal friendships with business relationships. Anyway he was noticing how our neighbors lawn appeared poorly maintained, as does their fence that has fallen down in a couple of spots. I explained how I thought the house was being foreclosed on and remembered seeing that the foreclsoure sale was very near.

He took another sip of his drink and said "he should have talked to me, I could have delayed the sale for quite a while".

He didn't go into any detail but that is kind of the message I got with the attorney I am using to advise us. I don't think I can give attorney recommendations here but I would enourage you to consult one with your specifics. No need to spend big bucks either.

One other idea would be that if I were you and had decided to default on the first I would go ahead and default on your second as well.