USBANK gave me a 2nd HAMP and then sent me to FORECLOSURE - HELP

[9Lives]

I would like to start by saying that I will do just about anything to keep my family in our home. I will educate myself as best as I can and fight tooth and nail to make USBANK admit their mistake and make it right. I also apologize for such a long post... but it's a long and messy story.

Home purchased 5-2006
USBANK loan $262,158
7.45% apr

In July of 2009 we applied for a HAMP with USBANK because my husband's income was significantly lowered and I lost my job. We were approved due to financial hardship and made 4 trial period payments.

Loan after HAMP
$267,418.29
Principal & Interest 1522.05
apr 5.375%
Escrow $839.26
Total new payment: $2,361.31
1st payment was made on 3-1-2010

*The bank showed an escrow shortage of $4,192.31. When I questioned how this could be, they could not give me an answer. I made a mistake by letting this go.

Our payment decreased to $2361.31 on 01-01-10 due to our property taxes being lowered.

We began struggling to make mortgage payments in August 2010, but NEVER were late over 30 days.

USBANK began sending us letters stating we may qualify for a HAMP. I called the HOPE Hotline and they were no help. The counselor said to call our bank and see if we could qualify for another HAMP since the first one only lowered our payment by $108

On October 10, 2010 we called USBANK to see what we could do to get our mortgage lowered. They stated that we could apply for a HAMP again! Said is was okay because it was over 6 months since the last one and our payment was not reduced enough. Mistake #2, I trusted USBANK. UGH!

Between Oct 10th and December 22nd - we went through the application process, faxed and mailed the million papers they required, and were approved for a 2nd HAMP.

New HAMP
Our Gross Income $5800
3 trial payments of $2011.79 due on 1-1-11, 2-1-11, 3-1-11

On December 27th we received a default letter and immediately called the bank. The rep told me to disregard the letter, it was sent by mistake, I am active in the HAMP trial period, do not make a payment until January. Yes, this call is documented in their notes, everytime I call, I check that it's still there

January 7, 2011 USBANK accepts our first trial payment by phone.

January 12, 2011 - I received a phone msg to call USBANK. I assume it's about the HAMP, a just "checking in" kinda call and when I call back the rep checks the account notes and says "Oh, you were being called to be notified that your account is being sent to foreclosure tomorrow. Can you make a payment today of $7,527.50?" WHAT?!?!?!?! Are you kidding me??? I almost passed out! Pulled myself together and explained that there's some kind of mistake. I rehash the timeline of events and the girl says "You can't have a HAMP a second time." She made it sound like I magically set myself with a HAMP. Hello? I have paperwork from THEM. She simply says "Sorry".

Ok... so since the 12th, I have been calling USBANK upwards of 12 times per day. I leave messages with our alledged loan processor, our alledged foreclosure processor, supervisors, etc. I have kept meticulous notes all the way as I suspect I will need them.

My investor is Freddie Mac and I have left messages with their Borrower Outreach Program, I have talked to the HOPE Hotline again (they were no help, again), I have filled out a complaint form with the Illinois State's Attorney General, and I am currently waiting to speak with a counselor with our local HUD agency. I did speak with a rep at the HAMP Compliance Solutions Center and she thought the story was very fishy. She suggested I call the hud people to in turn, call them back to open a case and investigate. I am on a mission to get USBANK at this point!

Today, I finally call US Bancorp directly at the number I believe ****** posted (615) 466-3000. I almost fell off my chair when a real person answered. I explained my situation and my need for help... she transferred me to a "Holly". Did the same thing with Holly and she was very sympathetic. She said that she would give my information to Management in the Loss Mitigation Dept. and have someone call me. She even gave me her direct number to call her back on Monday if I didn't receive a callback today (which I didn't)

I received a "Mortgage Arrearage" letter from Codilis & Assoc on behalf of USBANK. They are telling me I have 30 days to contest the debt they are trying to collect, which is now $272,816.93

I need advice on where to go from here. There is no way I have done everything I can and like I said, I'm ready to fight to keep my home. I would very much appreciate any advice or direction anyone can give me. I feel like I'm starting to get tired, and the last thing I want to do is lose momentum!

Thank you SO much

[9Lives]

I need to also add that we were served foreclosure papers last night, right after I posted my story, from our county court house. The server informed us that our court date would be 6 months from now.

I am now very scared because USBank told me just yesterday that they would not move forward with the foreclosure until they had determined if we qualified for a loan modification. As of yesterday... they told me my account was still active and they were still considering a loan modification. I think I need a lawyer at this point.

[motorcitymadness]

9 Lives,
How far behind are you? Have you made any payments recently? You may want to scrap the 2nd Hamp at this point and just try to work out a payment plan. At this point I would just try to get back on track and worry about the 2nd Hamp when your not stressed with the possibility of foreclosure. Trying to fignt the 2nd Hamp may prove futile and hurt you even more in the long run. First things first. Find out what you have to do to try and get current. Any additional information you can provide will help in developing a game plan. I too have US Bank and have done a successful Hamp Mod and know the challenges and hurdles you need to go through.

Thanks,
Motor

[motorcitymadness]

9 Lives,
Feel free to private message me if you would like.

[9Lives]

Hi Motor,

Thank you for your advice. The offering and setting up of a 2nd HAMP was a mistake made by USBank. We were told on January 12th that unless we paid them over $7,000 by the 13th... there was no way to keep the home from being sent to the foreclosure dept. We are considered now to be 4 months behind even though we made a payment to them on January 7th in the agreed, trial payment period amount of $2,011.79 The bank has informed us that the payment was never applied and instead placed in a suspense account. We have also been told to not make any payments to the bank anymore. They told us that if we send them a payment for ANY amount... they will return it.

So we're not trying to fight to get a second hamp... we are trying to fight the fact that USBank gave us a 2nd hamp (which they can't per HAMP guidelines), which in turn put us 4 months behind on payments, and they then put us into foreclosure because of THEIR mistake. All I want to do is stay in my home and get them to fix their mistake.

Thanks again,

9Live

[Maurice Bedard]

I didn't supply that number. But you are allowed only one HAMP mod per lifetime, so I don't know know how or who screwed up. Are you 100% sure that the first mod was a HAMP mod? If so, the paperwork should have said something about 'part 2 of a 2 step process' and had info about an annual incentive payment. Your income must have been around $7500 at the time. With $5800 income, your trial payment should have been around $1800.

I think you need to get in touch with a HUD counselor, who in turn can get in touch with HAMP escalations at 866-939-4469, option 2, and your counselor may be able to get them to look into this. If the first mod was a HAMP, the servicer screwed up by offering you another HAMP trial. If not, then they screwed up by making the trial payments too high. It is standard for HAMP to require that a counselor escalate your case, in most circumstances.

And the amount they are asking for almost certainly includes the escrow shortage. The shortage came from your first trial, and any missed payments. Even if the trial gives you a lower payment, any shortage is still owed, especially to escrow. They could have added the shortage to the loan balance if state laws allow it, but most people are paying the escrow shortage as part of their new escrow payment. I can't tell what they did with your loan, but that amount is not your real problem.

[motorcitymadness]

I understand. I would stay the course your on. Keep fighting them. Contact the attorney that sent you the 30 day notice to dispute. Tell them that US Bank made the mistake and if you have to you will bring all documentation to court and fight them there. Perhaps they can persuade the the bank to work out a payment arrangement. No matter, you have to keep fighting every avenue you can go down until they work with you. You should not lose your home over their mistake nor do I think you will if you really fight them. Stay persistant and do not give up!! You may be getting tired but it's your home and it's well worth the fight. I would suggest as a last resort to contact an attorney and explain the situation and they may take your case simply because they may smell a large law suit. Just some thoughts and I wish you all the luck in the world his gets resovled.

Sincerely,
Motor

[Maurice Bedard]

My reply crossed your last post. Sorry. But if you have $2000 in unapplied payments, and a $4000 escrow shortage, and they say you need to come up with $7000, what is the other $5000 shortage? Did you make no payments between Aug and Jan?

The letter says you owe $272k, including the escrow shortage? And the loan after HAMP was $267k? and you have $2k in unapplied funds? Sounds like you are really only $3000 behind.

[9Lives]

Thank you SO much ****** and Motor!

****** ~ I do sincerely apologize for stating that it was you who posted that phone number.
I am 100% sure the first modification was a HAMP. I have all paperwork to prove it. We fully understood the incentives it held which is why we did everything in our power to keep under 30 days late.
Our income has always been right around the $5800 mark. I also agree that our HAMP should have resulted in a total payment of around $1,800. USBank argued that HAMP does not allow them to include escrow and so with our escrow being $839... our total payment came to what you see above. I knew they were wrong!!!
And thank you for explaining the escrow shortage, it's what I assumed happened but when they couldn't explain it, I questioned myself. I admit... this has been a learning process.
I have been in touch with the counselor that HOPE hooked us up with - they told me they can't help me.
I spoke to a lady at the HAMP Compliance Solutions Center and she agreed that they did something wrong. She told me to find a new counselor to have them escalate the problem. I have let voicemails and am still waiting for a return call. On Monday, I am going to start calling counselors that are not in my area.
And finally... the escrow shortage... it is my understanding that they rolled the shortage into our regular escrow payment.

Motor ~
Thank you for the encouragement to go on. Being served papers last night almost made me throw in the towel. I do believe USBank made a huge error and intend to start seeking legal counsel on Monday. I'm getting scared that I can no longer deal with this on my own.

Thank you both so much for your advice... I will continue my fight!

9Lives

[Maurice Bedard]

HAMP compliance should have kicked back your original mod. I think you should be able to appeal to HAMP based on the first mod being wrong. The 31% is required to include the escrow amount. I think that if you tell HAMP that you already tried working through HOPE, if they escalated your case through their(HOPE's) system, they(HAMP) may be able to directly intervene. That is what HAMP escalations told me. They also said that if you had a foreclosure sale date, they could step in immediately. That was in late July/early August. They may have changed procedures by now.

But I think it might be better to escalate based on the original HAMP mod being out of compliance, than confusing the issue with 2 mods, but HAMP rep should be able to say which would be easier. Maybe you can post another thread asking for anyone who knows of a HUD counselor who understands HAMP.

[9Lives]

My reply crossed your last post. Sorry. But if you have $2000 in unapplied payments, and a $4000 escrow shortage, and they say you need to come up with $7000, what is the other $5000 shortage? Did you make no payments between Aug and Jan?

The letter says you owe $272k, including the escrow shortage? And the loan after HAMP was $267k? and you have $2k in unapplied funds? Sounds like you are really only $3000 behind.

Ok... I hope I am answering this correctly...
In 12-09 our principal amount was 267,418
1st hamp finalized 02-10 and showed the escrow shortage of $4,192
USBank stated that by reducing our apr, the principal and interest would be lowered to $1522 per month and that in "complying" with HAMP guidelines, that was 31% of our gross income. They said the reason the final payment increases to $2361 is because they then need to add on the $839 monthly to cover escrow and the escrow shortage. I was told time and time again that the 31% did not include anything regarding escrow.

When USBank called to tell me I was going to the foreclosure department, I must admit I was in shock and did not ask that person as many questions as I should have. Little did I know that I would pretty much never speak to anyone at the bank again. I asked her what I could do to save our home and get it out of foreclosure and she stated:
"You currently owe us $12,172.22 in payments and fees. You need to make a payment by tomorrow that will get you within being 2 months behind." 2 mortgage payments = $4650 $12,172.22 - $4650= $7,522.22 Being that I had less than 24 hours to come up with the money... I couldn't swing that.

Payments were kept up with until October and we never once hit the "late more than 30 days" mark. Again, we fully understood the rules of the first hamp.

As far as the letter from USBank's lawyer stating we owe $272k, I received the letter after business hours yesterday and was unable to call their office. I'm going to assume that they are going to tell me that I also owe a bunch of fees that got me to that total.

Our payment history is as follows:
August: paid
Sept: no payment made but we did not fall more that 29 days late
Oct: paid
Nov: told not to make a payment because we were being approved for HAMP
Dec: told not to make a payment because we were being approved for HAMP
January: made a payment of $2011 (what was outlined in our 2nd HAMP trial period paperwork) This payment is sitting in a suspense account and was not applied to our loan

And finally yes... they took and cashed our 1st trial period payment on January 7th. When they called about the foreclosure I said "well I guess you'll be cutting a check back to me for that amount then?" I was told that the $2,011 was placed in a suspense fund and they would use it to cover the costs of a foreclosure or toward a regular modification should I be accepted for one.

Hope this helps,

9Lives

[Maurice Bedard]

It is about what I guessed- only missing payments, now three payments, plus the escrow shortage. I don't think you should have to pay the escrow shortage to bring the rest of your account current.

If your mod had been done correctly the first time, you would already have paid enough extra to be current. You need to get the payment corrected on your first mod, and get all the back payments since reapplied correctly.You were paying an extra $500 a month for ten months. That should be just about enough to pay the three months you missed, plus a little extra. HAMP compliance has an email- I think it is compliance@hmpadmin.com Explain to them that the original mod did not meet HAMP terms, and the servicer refuses to correct it to bring it into compliance with HAMP standards of 31% of your income for PITI. The escrow shortage they can add in, but they need to spread it out over 60 months. Running a few rough numbers- you should still qualify pretty easily, at a rate of 2% instead of 5%. Since you have a freddie mac loan, the 2% is not a problem. Even your final rate will be lower than you have now.

Since HAMP compliance is run by freddie mac, make sure to stress that it is a freddie mac loan when you call.

[9Lives]

Thank you SO very, very much ******! I was beginning to think I was the one that was wrong. I am going to shoot an email out to HAMP compliance immediately.

~ 9Lives

[9Lives]

compliance@hmpadmin.com did not work.

However, by searching online and being directed to previous forum posts, I got 2 helpful addresses:
mha_compliance@mhacompliance.com and borrower_outreach@freddiemac.com

~ 9Lives

[9Lives]

I thought I would update my post with today's events. A couple steps forward... and then a couple more to get me right back where I started. Again... all advice is welcome and very much appreciated as I feel I'm nearing my breaking point.

8am - I called USBANK to specifically ask if my loan was still actively being considered for an in house modification. They answered yes. I then ask why I was served foreclosure papers because I have been told several times that my loan would just "sit on the back burner in the foreclosure dept until it was deemed I wasn't eligible for a mod". She stated that the bank will go forward with all foreclosure proceedings. They cannot give me a sale date until it's decided they won't give me a mod.... okay. Finally, someone told the truth!
She then offered to transfer me to the foreclosure processor handling the account. I have left this woman countless messages so I get a little ticked off when they offer to transfer me. So, I told the rep that she was more than welcome to transfer me, but I have left the processor plenty of messages and she doesn't return my calls. Told her that because of USBANK's lack of communication, I have had to seek help from outside sources such as HAMP Compliance. With this, she says she will physically go and get the processor (yeah right) and put me on hold.
She then came back on the phone and said "because you have opened up a legal case against us, you must contact out lawyer. We can no longer accept calls from you."

WHAT?!?!?!?! and that's exactly what I said to her. "What are you talking about? I haven't open a case anywhere against you and I don't even have a lawyer." She stated that I told her I opened a case with HAMP Compliance. I then explained, as if I was talking to a child because I wanted to make it very clear what was said, that I had no legal representation, I have not opened a case with HAMP Compliance, etc. That it was USBank that had filed suit against me. Then I ask if I can talk to someone now.

She told me "No. Only our lawyer will talk to you. I suspect that's why no one is returning your calls." Makes NO sense whatsoever. I've been calling daily since January 13th and today was the first time I ever mentioned the words HAMP Compliance... UGH.

8:30 I decided to play the game and call HOPE hotline... again. They connect me to a rep with MMI (our counseling agency) I email a complete timeline of events to him, go through a million questions and he speaks to his supervisor. MMI Rep and myself try to do a 3 way with the bank to find out what's going on. The bank refuses to talk to us. MMI suggests calling Hope hotline once again and tell them I need to be connected to MHA Escalations.

11:00am My situation is reviewed by a rep at MHA Escalations. She cannot figure out why the bank won't take my calls if they are really still reviewing me for a loan mod. She explained that I could not be approved for a 2nd HAMP (no kidding) and didn't seem worried that by USBANK offering me a 2nd HAMP... my loan went into default and now foreclosure. We then try a 3 way with USBANK. First rep to answer at the bank tells us they can't talk to us and we need to call the lawyer. This rep then tells us that the status of my loan currently show that I am in review for a HAMP. INSANITY!!!!! She explains that there is a call block on my account because someone has filed a lawsuit against the bank. She cannot tell us who and decides to be kind enough to transfer us to the foreclosure dept "they'll be able to help you"

11:45 Rep in foreclosure dept says the notes on the account state that I called in this morning and told USBANK that I have a lawyer and have an active lawsuit against USBANK. I almost passed out at hearing this. Told the rep to immediately make a note that I never stated that, never had any intention to do that and that the rep who noted that must have misunderstood that. This Rep in the foreclosure dept goes on to say that yes, I'm still be considered for other work out options but there are no notes saying what those options are. She offers to transfer us to the processor handling the account. And then, what a surprise, it goes to voicemail. Msg left....

USBank hangs up and I'm on the phone with MHA Escalations now. This rep tells me that all I can do now is call into USBank once per week to check on the status of the loan. I told her that I will not sit here and wait to hear from then. So she suggests calling a hud approved counselor to discuss in house options and a household budget. Unbelievable! Ummmmm... it was my "hud approved counselor who connected me to you!" I asked her about looking into the fact that my first hamp done in 2010 was incorrect. She said that because we defaulted on the HAMP there was no way to go back and fix it. She stated that basically, the only way to save my home was to sit and wait for USBank to contact me and hope they offer me some kind of in house mod.

This is getting scarier and more ridiculous by the day and I cannot and will not just sit and wait.

So now I need to ask... is it time to get a lawyer? I still need to answer the summons and dispute it but I'm not 100% comfortable with doing that without legal counsel.

Confused and Worried
~9Lives

[Maurice Bedard]

If you are calling HOPE, you are dealing with HOPE's escalations dept. You need your counselor to call HAMP escalations, and tellthem you already went all the way through HOPEs system with unsatisfactory results. The first mod did not comply with HAMP requirements, and they either need to make it comply, or not count it as defaulted. Either of those 2 emails should be more helpful than HOPE. As far as I am concerned, they are only good for using to make 3 way call, and takes notes. HAMP escalations is different than escalating through HOPE. Try calling yourself first- 866-939-4469, option 2.

If your mod had been done right, you would not be 'defaulted.' Someone else made a contact at escalations who was very helpful named Norris. Search that name, I think it may be the same person who helped me. His last name was in the post. You might try asking specifically for him if you try calling that number.

[9Lives]

So I miraculously got a call from USBank this morning. A gentleman by the name of Nick called and said he was calling in response to the letter I sent to USBancorp on Saturday. He told me the following:

• My loan was being considered for an in house modification and that if I'm approved, the negotiator will call me in about a week.
• This modification will most be at least the same mortgage payment or higher (UGH) than the $2361 we were paying.
• Told me Freddie Mac will not go lower that the 5.375% apr we have. All they will do is roll the 5 default payments (of which there are only 4 as far as I'm concerned because the idiots accepted a trial payment for $2,011 from us on 1-7) onto the back of the loan.
• He admitted that "they" made a mistake and should not of offered us a second hamp... but still, like many others, placed the blame on me.
• He scolded me for falling 5 months behind on payments. To which I replied "USBank told us over and over again not too worry about the payments... we were on track for a HAMP." He thought I was lying and I shut him up by telling him to check the account notes that specifically include reps telling me not to make a payment. His reply was simply "the were misinformed".

As far as our first HAMP being incorrectly done. I went round and round with him on this. He finally stated that we reported a gross income of $7,000 which means USBank did it right. Ok... we started that 2010 HAMP in July of 2009 and it wasn't finalized until February 2010. During that time, my husband lost overtime pay and I lost income as well. Gee... I assumed they made adjustments when your income changes due to the 972 times they told us to fax paycheck stubs and profit/loss statements over.

So here I sit... wondering if I should keep fighting about that first hamp being done incorrectly due to a change of income during the process. Or do I sit back and wait to hear from USBank? Nick did say that there is a chance that the investor will turn us down because we just had a mod (the HAMP completed in 2-10). I swear I've aged 20 years during the last 2 weeks with USBank (

~ 9Lives
2 mad 2 give up

[Maurice Bedard]

They are required to verify income, so it doesn't really matter what you reported. Were they able to verify $7000 income when you first applied? There is no requirement under HAMP for them to update your info. Any updates are usually requested for inhouse mod documentation.

I would still try HAMP escalations instead of escalating through HOPE. Hope doesn't even do those kind of technical issues. I don't even think HOPE has the HAMP handbook available.


Quote "So here I sit... wondering if I should keep fighting about that first hamp being done incorrectly due to a change of income during the process. Or do I sit back and wait to hear from USBank?"


Do both. Talk with HAMP while you are waiting.

[9Lives]

Ok... so I talked to my husband only to find out that yes, our income could have been $7,000 at the time of the HAMP due to his overtime (and yep, they verified it) So now, I'm not too happy because I was literally the boy who cried wolf, arguing with everyone that my HAMP was wrong because our income was $5800. ((((

The man I spoke to this morning walked me through the numbers and I've run them again and it does appear that the first HAMP was correct:
Our gross income was $7,000 - 31% of that is 2170
Our P&I was set at 1522
Escrow was 839 - 170 for what is paid to PMI = 669
and they set our HAMP mod mortgage payment at 2361.00 so now I look like a jackass

I called the Complaint Coordinator from USBank (Nick) back today because he stated that I am 5 payments behind. Tried to argue that we did make a payment in January, but because it wasn't the full amount (it was the trial period amount for the bogus 2nd hamp they set up) they won't count it and that even though they won't accept a February payment from us at this time, nor is it due until the 15th of Feb., they're counting that as well.

So I stressed to Nick that it is VERY important the investor know that I am behind "5 payments" because I had good faith in USBank and allowed them to set us up with a 2nd hamp. I also want the investor to be aware that it is noted on the account that USBank employees told us NOT to make payments. Nick said "all the investors will look at is the numbers." Fabulous... that really doesn't give me much hope. He said that if Freddie Mac has questions, they will contact me. So all I can hope for at this point is that we pass the NPV with flying colors or that they question what the hell happened. Honestly... I want them to question me... I look forward to telling them how ignorant USBank has been.

So my question now is this... because it now appears that they did that first HAMP correctly... there is no need to contact HAMP Compliance is there? I guess my next course of action is to report USBank's bad faith to someone else somewhere. I have the paperwork to file a complaint with the Attorney General already.

~ 9Lives

[goodrich4bk]

I wish you luck in resolving your dispute with US Bank. But next time you go to the polls, remember that Chuck Schumer in 2008 proposed that Chapter 13 debtors be allowed to "refi" their underwater mortgages with a new loan for the present value of their home and an unsecured deficiency claim for the underwater part of the loan (on which the banks could be paid little or nothing). This was called "cramdown" and it has always been available to Chapter 11 businesses. In other words, a business can cramdown its banks to the value of the banks collateral, but homeowners cannot. Schumer tried to give homeowners the exact same rights as businesses but not a single Republican would support his bill and it failed.

In my humble opinon, had cramdown become law in 2008, the mortgage crisis would be over. You would have a mortgage written down to the fair value of your home and the difference would be discharged. You would be able to afford your payments even with a reasonable interest rate on the new loan. The bondholders who were stupid and careless enough to make the loan to you at the peak of a bubble of historic proportions would lose much of their loan. But because over half of these "investors" are foreigners, such losses would have little impact on US consumers.

Yes, cramdown would raise interest rates on new loans because lenders would face the risk of such cramdowns in the future. But the evidence is that the increase would be less than .5%. More likely, lenders would just get a lot more careful about the loans they make, something that should have happened a long time ago.

[motorcitymadness]

9Lives,
At this point I think you wait to hear back from Nick or follow up with him at the end of this week to find out the status of the in house mod. I think they realize they messed this up and should not have offered you a 2nd HAMP. I also believe this is the only reason they are considering an in house mod. If they approve the in house mod I would take it and start with a clean slate. If they give you a hard time and do not give you a definitive answer within a week I would consult an attorney. At lease sit down and discuss with an attorney what has transpired and see if you have anything. Just my thoughts and I wish you the best of luck! Keep fighting....

[Maurice Bedard]

You still have time to beg borrow or swindle the missed payments. . I would still call HAMP and see what they say about the bank offering you a second HAMP trial. That is not in compliance with HAMP rules, and who knows, maybe there is something that can be done. I know freddie mac does have programs available if you don't qualify for HAMP, you will lose outon the lower payment though for the first five years. This doesn't seem right though, I don't know if an att'y can help since they 'induced' you to quit paying with the offer of a better deal they could never come up with. Some states are setting up emergency programs and giving grants to cover missed payments. It is not time to give up.

[9Lives]

Ok. So now my HUD Approved Housing Counselor is refusing to escalate to HAMP solutions. I apologize for the giant blue text... it got stuck on that and I couldn't fix it.

In an email yesterday he stated:
Based upon the information you have provided, there is no justifiable reason to escalate this to the HAMP Solution Center. While I appreciate that you want to exhaust all options, this escalation process is protected to ensure that only valid escalation cases are submitted. This is done to allow for timely resolution of these cases.
Whenever a trial payment is offered, the mortgage is still considered past due, since you are not making the contractual payment and there is not final modification doc stating “the trial payment serves as payment in full” most mortgage companies consider you past due during those payments. The trial payment documents should state that it could have a negative bearing on your credit. It is also possible that US Bank may elect to give you a trial payment for the in house modification, and it will most likely be considered in the same light.

Given the information provided below, I am 100% percent confident that the escalation would be dismissed. Given these circumstances, I cannot escalate. I would recommend you stay in contact with US Bank to ensure no additional information is needed for their in-house modification review. I would continue to make, at least, whatever the trial payment amount is to show good faith and to also show that you can afford such payment.


I explained to him that I strongly believe that there is someone, somewhere who needs to know about this mistake and that I will continue to work on my own. Also explained to him that USBank has told me several times that because we are in foreclosure, they will return any payments made to them. Now... in my gut... I would bet that they won't return the payment. They are going to lump that one right in with the 1st trial in a suspense account. They'll then use that money to foreclose on me. Told the housing counselor that I can't afford to give the bank another $2,011 because I may need it to get a lawyer ... which I will.


I am going to call Nick at USBank today to find out the status of the alleged "fast track in house mod" and will keep the board posted.


~ 9Lives

[9Lives]

Haven't updated in awhile... because, surprise, US Bank is unbelievably SLOW.

I was calling the "Complaint Coordinator", Nick, daily until Monday when he told me that we were approved for an in house loan modification. He was really making it seem that USBank was doing me a HUGE favor. For what??? Screwing up my entire life for the last month??? Insane! Anyhow, he told me that they would modify my loan and put us back to the original payment of $2326 per month. Wow! What a deal... NOT. At least we would keep our house.

I finally get the paperwork yesterday and there were 2 issues. 1. It was a forbearance agreement and 2. It was BLANK. Yep... no dollar amounts or due dates. UGHHHH... Called Nick immediately and he insisted that he told me the deal was a "3 month forbearance trial period with payments of $2326. Then on the 4th month, they would adjust the amount (I'm gonna go with a MUCH HIGHER amount) and do a loan mod. He didn't believe me that the docs were blank.

So, had to fax everything to him to show a Supervisor. He called me back and told me that they were training someone and that HE must have mailed it out by mistake. Oh... wonder if he was the one who also mistakenly sent us that 2nd HAMP and ruined our life >

They overnighted new docs.

These are the only terms in the agreement

Payments by certified check in the amt of 2326 are due 3-1, 4-1, 5-1
There is no grace period
The foreclosure will be put on hold during the trial payment, but if we are late even one day, they resume foreclosure.
They are still holding my trial payment from the second hamp (2011) in the suspense acct and will apply that to all the back money I now owe after the forbearance trial.
Claiming bankruptcy during the trial will result on them resuming the foreclosure

So.... my questions are...

The last line of the contract states:
"I, the mortgagor, waive my rights to notice of intent to accelerate debt as well as notice of acceleration of debt and notice of sale."
What does this mean? I'm waiving my right to be told if and when they magically decide to foreclose again?

I must admit that I am furious that after all they put us through, they haven't done anything more than say "sorry" for their HUGE mistakes. I have explained how much time this has taken from me, how it's destroyed my credit, and how it's caused more stress than they could possibly imagine.

I am really beginning to think that this is going to be the best deal for us to keep our house. Now... I don't trust the bank will follow through with ANYTHING, in fact, I think they are just stalling to get more money from us.

My other question is this, I asked Nick if the county courthouse would be notified of the hold on the lawsuit. He didn't know. I explained that very shortly, I need to file and appearance with them which will cost me $ that is non refundable. My name will also go in the paper. We're in a small town... and it's gonna get ugly really quick! He told me to call USBank's lawyers and ask them and to also send them a copy of the forbearance agreement. I think this is very fishy. Why the heck would I send a lawyer who is SUING me... anything???

Seriously... do I need to **** it up and get a lawyer on Monday. Or take the deal and get on with my life?

~9Lives

[Maurice Bedard]

I can only answer that the waiver they want just says that you agree that they don't need to send you the required notices if you don't pay. If you live somewhere that foreclosure noramally takes a long time, the waiver of notices is more meaningful. Have you tried HAMP solutions? Not HOPE, but directly HAMP solutions? Since you already tried HOPE, you should be eligible to apply for escalation directly through HAMP escalations. 866-939-4469, option 2. eg them to listen for a minute before they try to transfer you, or ask for someway other than HOPE to be referred to. HOPE is not very helpful, and I only recommend them becasue they are usually a required first step in the escalation process. HAMP is the second step. The HAMP handbook explains the complaint process now. www.hmpadmin.com and read the handbook.

[9Lives]

Ok, that's what I thought that blurb meant... the wording just threw me off a bit. And I do believe that I'm one of the "lucky" ones and that foreclosures here are moving fast. When this first started, one of the Customer Service Reps told me it would be 60 days to a year before I was served a summons, and I received one like a week later.

To date, I have tried to get 3 different housing counselors to escalate for me and all have refused. The first guy at MMI seemed to be really helpful but once we found out USBANK was considering us for a loan modification, he sent me an email stating that this is the best case scenario for me. Told me to sit and wait for the Bank to offer the mod to me. He further told me that they have strict guidelines for when they are allowed to contact HAMP solutions to escalate and that my case did not meet them. Have to admit... I sent him a piece of my mind and told him that he could "sit and wait", I will continue fighting for what is right. The other 2 counselors also told me that because the bank is allegedly working with me, they cannot help me.

I have called HAMP Solutions on my own (option 2) 2 or 3 times at this point. And yes, I got enough "air time" to tell them all my entire story. Everyone of them told me something is not right. However, each of them stated there was nothing they could do until I called with a counselor to escalate the situation. Makes me think I should have a friend call and pose as a counselor LOL

Honestly, at this point... I'm not even sure that the problem can be resolved by HAMP. USBank acted in Bad Faith by setting us up with that 2nd HAMP and then putting us in forclosure... tanking our credit score down in the process.

I am nervous as heck to sign this Forbearance agreement because I believe it's their intention to collect more money... and then still foreclose. I am also finding it a very hard pill to swallow to accept letting USBANK get away with what they have done. They have made SO many mistakes, been very unethical, they've admitted they are wrong and yet have done nothing to apologize for it. I have been through hell and I hate the thought of them getting away with it and then going on to do it to someone else. Most people would just give up and let the Bank get away scott free. That's why I just gotta fight!

As of today, my plan is to try to find a lawyer for a consult. I've been researching lawyers and have narrowed it down to a few. I'm thinking I will call or email each of them, tell them what happened and see if they want to meet with me. REALLY hoping it's one of the Pro Bono lawyers who can help me.

Trust me... I would have much preferred to fix all of this without the help of a lawyer, but the stress of this is killing me and taking a toll on my family. I just need some outside help.

If the lawyers tell me that I have nothing. Then I'll just have to trust that. And each month, I'll make my payment to USBANK faithfully and then I'll need to have a drink

But if anyone has any other suggestions... I'm all ears!

~9Lives
More like 3Lives at this point...

[Maurice Bedard]

9lives- there were changes to the escalation process as of Feb 1st. And the solutions people were correct based on the old rules, but you could use the HOPE couselors to initiate and escalate a complaint, and then if you don't have an acceptable resolution from them, you could escalate directly to HAMP solutions. The new complaint procedures are in the new HAMP handbook, and seemed to be an improvement.

This process of having to file a complaint first with HOPE was why I always tell people to call HOPE. About all they were good for is that you needed to start with them prior to going to HAMP solutions.

And it is important to file a complaint through either HOPE or HAMP solutions because if you do, the servicer has to make sure that they(hamp/hope) agree with the servicers decision about your complaint.

Read the HAMP handbook version 3.0 pgs 34-40 about the whole escalation process. If more people knew the process, they would not be having to contact companies like MMI who are basically powerless. But what is most important is for the borrower to be able to clearly define exactly which part of HAMP was violated, and to be able to cite the page number from the handbook.

9lives- If you can't find exactly what the problem is, if you would like, post the info you were given, and what you provided to them. I can try to see if I can figure anything out.

[Maurice Bedard]

I think they violated the rule that allows only one HAMP mod per borrower. For them to offer you another one was their violation. If you have anything in writing with them offering a HAMP trial or another mod after the first one, that should be the basis for you to escalate. You need to find where in the handbook that says a borrower may only get one HAMP mod per lifetime. Cite that as a rule they violated, and escalate based on that.

Maybe the people you spoke with just couldn't think of a way to make it a violation by the servicer. But the handbook is the servicing guide, and it is up to the servicer to follow it, not you. So the servicer was in violation, and the second mod should be canceled, putting the first mod back in place.

[9Lives]

Thanks so much ******! I will call HOPE on Monday morning with the new information you gave me. And I will plan to push hard for them to escalate. I will be prepared with all the information you told me to get. And yes... I have TONS of proof regarding the 2nd HAMP: several letters from USBank saying I qualify for one (after we already had one), several "Congratulations you qualified" letters, a letter saying we need to attend counseling before it's approved, and the paperwork, which includes payment stubs, for the trial period. They also cashed the first trial payment period check.

Even if HOPE does escalate, I face making several decisions this week that I am worried will effect my "case":

1. I have to reply to USBank's lawyers with a dispute letter by Friday (Saturday is the 30 day mark which I have to respond to the lawsuit)
2. I have to file an appearance with my county courthouse by Friday (for the same reason as above) and that is going to cost me a non-refundable fee of $137.
3. I have to sign and mail back the forbearance agreement. One copy says "immediately" and the other says by March 1st. So I'll call tomorrow to find out about that for sure.

If you were me... would you just go along with disputing with the lawyers, filing with the court and signing the forbearance agreement and then continuing the "good fight"? Or do you think that by doing those things, I'll hurt my chances for getting a just resolution?

~9Lives

[Maurice Bedard]

That is about the toughest question you could ask. If you had a few days, I would see what happens with my suggestion. And then proceed with talking to an attorney. I do think that signing the forbearance agreement might show that you are accepting their offer. I do know that once you agree to an offer, it means you can't go back and relitigate the issue. Signing the forbearance could be looked at as 'settling' the issue over the HAMP. Ask your attorney about that line of thinking.

But I do think that if you have already talked with HOPE, and they have not been able to do anything to help, you should be able to go directly to HAMP escalations/solutions now. Citing the exact rule that the servicer broke may help them with your case.

I don't think that they are set up to decide what rule was broken, or they would have to review every detail of your mod, but if you show them the violation, they can go forward. I don't know if this will get you anywhere, but it is about the only idea I can come up with that you can use without using legal efforts in the courts, or mediation.

I would spend the next 4-5 hours going through the handbook, and citing every rule the servicer broke,including those that had no real impact.

There have been so many cases thrown out of court, but if you can show a lot of violations of a program they induced you into, that to me shows that they had no real intention to treat you fairly.

The only thing you should have to worry about is paying the payments that would have been due if they had not offered a second mod.

It is important to remember and press the point with either HAMP/HOPE that the HAMP rules are rules for the servicer to follow, not you. You did nothing wrong. They cannot arbitrarily cancel a HAMP mod.

Even if you were late, they would still be required to go through the correct foreclosure process, which does allow you to 'cure' the default up until the sale, and maybe even after.

[9Lives]

Ok. I have already started going through the handbook and have 2 violations. 1 is setting me up with a second HAMP, and 2 is soliciting me for a HAMP when I already had one.

If things are resolved by HAMP solutions and they revert me back to my original payment... it doesn't really effect anything. They difference in the payments are mere dollars. It's really a joke. What would be nice is if they settled for putting me back to the trial payment amount of $2011. LOL But I know that not feasible.

And I agree 100% that signing that forbearance will negate all future arguments. So time is not on my side but I've been working at this non-stop for a month now... what's another week right?

I will see where I can get HAMP solutions tomorrow and make sure to get in to see a lawyer by Wednesday. Crossing my fingers that a lawyer will take me Pro Bono.

Thanks so much for all your advice ******. It's so easy to get tired and give up. It's also easy to make yourself crazy and start to think that your wrong. You and this board continue to give me the support I need to keep going. Honestly, I think whether I take that forbearance or continue fighting... I can still lose my house in the end and my credit will be devastated. But... if I fight and lose, I'll have my pride!

~9Lives

[Stressedout2]

Hi 9 Lives. What ever happened? I too have USBank and believe I have been talking to the same infamous "Nick".

[9Lives]

I really apologize for not updating my situation, as I fully understand others want to know what's happened in various situations.

As of Friday (after calling USBank non-stop for a week UGH!!!!) I found out that Freddie Mac denied our request for a loan modification because "we defaulted on a HAMP" After having paid 4 months of trial payments, at $2326 during a "special forbearance", and jumping through hoops, I AM LIVID!

So, UsBank and their ultimate generosity has offered us the only "home saving option" they could. A repayment plan. I sarcastically thanked the processor for their generosity They increased our mortgage by about $330 a month for the next 36 months and our home will remain on a hold status in forclosure until we complete those payments and pay their lawyer and court fees.

I am SO angry at this point that I'm spitting fire. Going back to the lawyers tomorrow and he better be ready to fight, because I'm not "playing ball" with these morons at USBank anymore. Yeah, I'm going to pay for THEIR lawyers to wrongfully foreclose on my home because they fraudulently set me up with a HAMP... yeah, I'm writing that check right now LOL

I will post with updates after I speak to the lawyer. Which fyi... he told us to walk away 4 months ago, so he'll probably advise that we just walk right now. Problem being that I HAVE been paying my mortgage all this time (technically, I'm only missing 2 payments) and haven't saved a dime because of that. Lesson learned: do not play by the bank's rules, make your own set of rules!

~ 9Lives
Lost the battle, but I WILL win the war!!!