Your loan was an ARM... right? You haven't paid it for 2-months or 6-months? You also took out a second mortgage and that was "sold" to Green-Tree?
Were you current with the second mortgage prior to them selling it to Green-Tree?
Do you still have all of your original loan docs? Have you had them audited...?
Do you loan docs have the box "Conventional" checked or does it state Conventional Loan anywere else on your docs.
Did you get a copy of the appraisal? Does it have Conentional Loan stated anywhere...?
If you were behind on the second mortgage and they sold it to Green Tree, something is WRONG on their end...? They are worried about something...
There is a very good chance your first mortgage is ILLEGAL. To find out you have to do some homework. The lender will not help you - they don't care about you or your family. If your loan is over 6-months in the rears - there is a VERY good chance they don't even know where the paperwork is - it was probably trashed or destroyed because the loan was illegal.
ARMS are very funky to figure out unless you know how to work the numbers. Were you qualified for the HIGHEST number it "could" have gone too... For example, did it fluctuate by 2.8% per month - per year - or could it move as much as 8-9 percent... If it moves over 8 percent the FED considers that ILLEGAL - if it was NEVER explained in WRITING to you - then it is probably a disclosure violation.
Keep in mind - these lenders have NO INCENTIVE to work with you or help you - whatsoever. NONE - ZERO - they would rather FORECLOSE because they will collect the insurance. The ONLY reason they are listening is because they HAVE TO by COURT ORDER or some other reason - hiding something. Otherwise they would have stepped in to take the house.
Most ARMS are illegal - if you had an ARM - PLUS took out a second mortgage - regardless of the reasons - chances are THEY gave you an ILLEGAL loan. The reason most folks were given loans was because they did NOT qualify for a conventional loan - but they couldn't qualify for the ARM ether because eventually that puppy would be SUPER expensive. The fact that you took out a second and had help with the first - appears to me that THEY were selling your loan into the MBS market and THAT was ALL THEY CARED ABOUT.
Depending on the situation - you should seriously consider writing a RESCISSION LETTER. That will grab their attention but these people are so arrogant - they'll simply ignore or chuck it. However, if you send it - KNOW what you might in for and don't mail that puppy unless it is CERTIFIED return receipt. If they ignore the rescission letter - they are in trouble because they must respond to YOU within 20-days per TILA - 30-Days per UCC.
Rescission is a Federal Strict Liability Statute - meaning they have NO CHOICE. It is a self-enforcing statute - NOT even a JUDGE can play with those puppies. You should VERY SERIOUSLY looking into it because if you have an illegal loan - it will cost them MUCH MORE to deal with that than to simply write off the loan and send your TITLE - Deed of Trust - STAMP PAID... no kidding... ! It's a double edged sword but it can bust them open if they are stupid about it.
Just some thoughts...
Thanks for the advise doghouse but to clarify a bit,
I purchased the home in 06-2006, I went with a 80/20 mortgage to avoid PMI . The first loan 80% is a Interest only 5/6 ARM again (what was I thinking) rate is 6.75% 30 years. The second loan was a traditional home equity loan, not a HELOC, the rate on that is 9.5% for 20 years a fixed payment, no balance.
Both mortgages were through National City. The first stayed with them, they sold the second to Greentree in 05-2009 right before the PNC merger. The first mortgage went to PNC after they bought National City's shell. I am 2 months behind with PNC but they havent done anything, I am still paying them every month but missed 2 months last year. I havent paid greentree at all since they assumed the loan, we are almost at 1 year. I havent heard from them at all either, they dont write me anymore.
I havent received a response to the settlement offer yet either.
Whats amazing is when I was shopping for a mortgage, if they simply gave me a traditional FHA loan, my payments would have been much lower and I would have been paying some principle. Instead to make the deal happen, I had to go with this garbage combo which will soon get me back.
PNC keeps tacking on a late fee every month for the prior payments but they dont send anything else. They keep uping the late fee as well even though the loan docs set it at one rate, seems like when PNC took it over, they decided to adjust it.
Not sure what to make of it, I have all the loan docs and a copy of the deed from the city but thats it. The loan docs are typical, rates and all, the appraisal at the time came in higher than my purchase price as well. Some people say they have copies of everything, some people say no. I just want to settle the second for now.
I just stopped paying them 3 months ago on my second lien as well. $32,000 at 9.25% and it was with National City. We need a game plan to deal with these worthless loans. Green Tree is nothing more than a middleman collector.
● Equity-Stripping and Asset-Based Lending.“Equity-stripping” often begins with a loan that is based on equity in a property rather than on a borrower's ability to repaythe loan -- a practice known as "asset-based lending." As a general rule, loans made to individuals who do not have the income to repay such loans usually are designed to fail. They frequently result in foreclosure.
They "deliberately" gave you a loan that was to meet other criteria... namely - an Issuing Trust - by pooling your mortgage with others to sell on the market. They didn't care if you repay it or not - they get paid anyway.
As for not hearing from them for a year - that's indication they don't have the paperwork - they most likely destroyed it - along with many others. There is a very good chance your mortgage has plenty of disclosure violations. The fact that its an ARM speaks volumes. I bet the numbers are screwed up - on your payoff balances and the APR is most likely whacked. These people were so lazy they became arrogant - arrogance begets sloppiness and in Banking - per Disclosure Laws - that can be HUGE windfall for you.
I'd get those loan docs audited by a professional - weed through the auditors and find a real one. It isn't easy but the fact of the matter - many probably work for the lenders because that way the LENDERS can keep a sneak-peek on what's coming at them... You be surprised...
If you qualified for a stand loan and they gave you the subprime - you can bet they have a mess under the covers. Most states have adopted very serious predatory lending laws. If you found a few good disclosure violations - you'd have them...
Do some research about them - Predatory Lender - National City - etc... Mortgage Fraud - Disclosure Violations - etc... This would be especially potent finding cases within your own state. Especially, if you find the judge that busted them...
Just some thoughts...
Thanks for the info guys. I never really thought of it that way and you do make a great point. I considered myself an educated consumer . I figured with pricing the way it was and comparing other rates, it wasnt the best deal but not the worst. Definitely a bad move, of course in retrospect, who the hell would consider a I/O 5/6 ARM on there own home, lol. I wasnt thinking, I thought that in 1-2 years, they value would go up and I could go into a standard loan at a better rate.
I will do some research on a potential audit. I did read the disclosers when I closed of course. The caps are -+2% every 6 months after the initial 5 years then 10 years, principle would kick in, they provided scenerios on the max increases but obviously, they were off as potentially, my rate on the IO can go up 4% per year and more when principle comes in, they did not provide details on that and some more.
My DTI at the time was 49% with the loan, apparently it was within National City's guidelines. I never considered the loan sub-prime but it definitely isnt conventional.
I received a letter back from Greentree on my settlement offer. It mentions they take my inquiry very seriously and have forwarded it to the proper department. It mentions short sale though that wasnt what I proposed. It asks me to call them, havent done so yet.
Someone told me Greentree filed bankrupt some time ago – but I don’t know if that’s true… If so, you might want to check it out…
A reputable audit company will discover more about a mortgage loan within a matter of days or maybe a week or 2, than most folks could learn in few months or longer… I don’t work for an audit company and I’m not trying to push it as the “end-all”. However, from my experience – a solid competent audit laid-out professionally by a “reputable” company – is worth 10 yahoo attorneys and/or law firms “supposedly” negotiating foreclosures and mods for the average family. An audit will not only supply the lethal arrows to fill your quiver against the lender – but more importantly (IMHO), it lays a solid & realistic foundation to plan your moves. That may sound a bit over-the-top but IMHO a true audit – real-deal audit – allows that family to weed out the bs attorneys thus separating the wheat from the chaff. In the end, when all-hell starts boiling over and the foreclosure mill starts churning the grinders & giant rip-saws, they don’t care who it is – how many kids – how far behind and especially if their client broke the law. The mission is to make us cower & submit to their commands making sure we wear that deadbeats need to vacate label the entire time… but a good audit will shield that family no matter if it is in the courtroom or the round-table. You didn’t break the law – THEY DID!
An audit company will send the lender a Qualified Written Request for specific information. The lender knows the game and must comply. How they handle those questions will expose other issues. Our audit produced 198-questions for the lenders.
In your situation, the audit will show if they violated laws related to the “graduated payment amounts” during the process of the loan. That is vital because I bet you’ll be “shocked” to learn how much they “miscalculated” those numbers. These lenders were so arrogant during this time-frame they not only didn’t work the numbers via FED requirements – the folks they hired & trained probably didn’t even know those laws existed. I’m not kidding. Subprime loans had ONE PURPOSE – FILL THE POOL (MBS) – that’s all they cared about – FILL THE POOL – MORE LOANS – WE NEED MORE LOANS – FILL THE POOL…
What these people were earning within 2-3 yrs from your loan – could have easily been 5-10 times what you would have paid making every payment ON TIME for the entire 30-yrs… They were earning obscene amounts of money. Remember even during the first yrs of the mortgage fall out these freaking people were still paying out BILLIONS in bonuses. THAT’S WHY…
Lehman Brothers bankruptcy case is posted on line. It’s 2,200 pgs but watch what happens over the coming months… Now Goldman-Sachs is in the hot-seat – Countrywide was already busted and each time another big gun is audited more is revealed about the cronyism and gross-illegal acts against the little folks - the borrower’s and it’s always related to MBS’s (mortgage backed securities) – SUBPRIME LOANS in most cases… but thus far the onion has not been peeled quite far enough yet to reach the TRUE VICTIMS of this freaking nightmare… -YOU – ME & most folks reading these websites. I’m not talking about the boneheads that look for the free-ticket and jump on the big-bus to cash in on easy money… That is NOT what this is about - at least NOT from what I’m reading on countless websites. This September will be our 31st anniversary. My wife & I worked very hard for many years. We have never sued anyone our entire lives always paid our bills. 5 yrs ago I could not have been convinced something like this could be true in our country. These past 4-5yrs, every damn night & day, I feel as though we were manipulated into Freddie-Kruger’s Nightmare … We didn’t break the law and I’ll be damned if I am going to let this happen to us without a bloody-fight. This isn’t about money – it’s about principle! It isn’t about me or only my wife & I – that’s how they continually win. This is about YOU – ME and US – and all decent hard-working citizens who have busted their butts trying to better ourselves. Black, white, green, purple, neither race nor religion - gender or transgender - this is flatout catagorically unacceptable. We aren’t perfect! We might not be the sharpest knives in the drawer or the brightest bulbs on the tree – but damn-it NOBODY deserves to be enslaved by the arrogant greedy-schemes as has been done by these sick SOB's. Families torn apart are having their lives destroyed and ruined while the schemers still live in a dream-world self-indulgence. Clearly - that grates against Freedom Liberty, and even an attempt to pursue Happiness - it is blatantly “un-American” where I come from.
Sorry to ramble - I'll get off my soap box...
Here are some of the laws that "should" be applicable to you... Please make sure you cross reference them to your states laws... But this should give a glimpse as to what the FED required of your lender when they sold you the loan package... I highlighted & embolded the text - just things to peek at while researching your case. A good auditing company could nail all this kind-a stuff for ya - but I still "highly" recommed folks learn as much as possible about their loans and the laws governing them...
Below this is a HOEPA snip I found regarding the FED's leash on the lenders ability to mess with the interest rate...
1. Required Disclosures for Adjustable Rate Mortgages
Adjustable rate mortgages (ARMs), which secured by the borrower’s principal dwelling with a maturity longer than one year, are required to be disclosed with additional information. To simplify disclosure requirements for variable rate loans, creditors may disclose any variable rate transaction applying the ARMs disclosure rule. However, the reverse is not allowed. Reg. Z. § 226.18(f); 52 Fed. Reg. 48665 (ffice:smarttags" />
Dec. 24, 1987).
Failure to disclose properly and accurately the requirements of variable rate loans entitles the consumer statutory and actual damages and also rescission right. In re Fidler, 210 B.R. 411 (D.
1997). lace w:st="on">Mass.lace>
a. Rate Cap Disclosure: The maximum interest rate that may be imposed during the term of the obligation must be disclosed to the borrower. Reg. Z. § 226.30(a); Fed. Reg. 45611 (
Dec. 1, 1987).
b. ARM brochure: The Consumer Handbook on Adjustable Rate Mortgages, published by the Board and the Federal Home Loan Bank Board, may be provided to the consumer to fulfill this requirement. Creditors can also provide a suitable consumer handbook that is comparable to the Board’s Consumer Handbook in substance and comprehensiveness. Reg. Z. § 226.19(b)(1).
c. Timing of Disclosures: The required disclosures and the Consumer Handbook must be provided to the borrower when an application form is furnished or before the payment of a non-refundable fee is made, whichever earlier. Reg. Z. § 226.19(b). Where the borrower receives the application by mail or a third party agent, the required information must be placed in the mail or delivered within three business days. Reg. Z. § 226.19 (b), n. 45b.
d. Specific Disclosures Required for Variable Rate Loan: Major aspects of the variable rate loan program, which the consumer is considering, must be specifically disclosed.
1) The Index: Identification of the index will be used to calculate the interest rate and a brief description of the method used in calculating the interest rate are required by the Regulation. § 226.19(b)(2)(ii).
2) Current Margin Value and Interest Rate: A statement must be provided to the consumer suggesting the consumer ask for the current margin and interest rate. Reg. Z. § 226.19(b)(2)(iv).
3) Frequency of rate change and payment adjustment must be disclosed. Reg. Z. § 226.19(b)(2)(vi).
4) Negative Amortization: A statement to inform the consumer the consequences of negative amortization. A creditor must disclose the rules relating to the option, including the effects of exercising the option such as the increase of interest rate will occur and the payment amount will increase. Reg. Z. § 226.19(b)(2)(vii); commentary § 226.19(2). Andrews v. Chevy Chase Bank, 240 F.R.D at 620 (no violation found where the creditor informs the borrowers what will occur when the interest rate increases).
5) Conversion Feature: If the loan has a conversion feature, the amount of fees will be charge and the method of the fixed rate interest to be determined must be disclosed. Reg. Z. § 226.19(b)(2)(vii)-3.
Mortgages to Which HOEPA Applies. HOEPA applies to mortgages secured by the consumer’s principal dwelling, other than a purchase-money residential mortgage transaction. As with the rescission right, examples of transactions subject to HOEPA are home equity and home improvement loans. HOEPA only applies when either an APR trigger or a points-and-fees trigger is met. 15 U.S.C. § 1602(aa). The APR trigger is a rate more than 10% higher than the yield on Treasury securities having a comparable period of maturity, and the points-and-fees trigger is a total figure, payable at or before closing, that exceeds the greater of 8% of the total loan amount or $400.
Additional Disclosures. Section 1639(a)-(b) requires special high cost mortgage disclosures not less than three business days prior to consummation of the transaction. These disclosures in essence warn the consumer of the high cost and the risk of losing one’s home on default, and advise that the consumer is not required to complete the transaction. Failure to provide these special disclosures constitutes a “material violation” of TILA, § 1602(u), and gives rise to the right of rescission discussed under TILA above. § 1635(a). See In re Williams, 276 B.R. 394 (Bankr. E.D. Pa. 2002) (noting that HOEPA pre-consummation disclosures are material disclosures and also that each debtor is entitled to two copies of all material disclosures).
Additional Substantive Protections. The HOEPA amendments also place a number of substantive restrictions on covered mortgages, barring all of the following: prepayment penalties in certain instances, a higher interest rate after default, balloon payments, negative amortization (because periodic payments do not cover the full amount of interest due), prepayment of more than two periodic payments, and extension of credit without regard to the consumer’s ability to repay (i.e., predatory lending that looks primarily to foreclosure to collect on the loan). §1639(c)-(h). HOEPA requires creditors to make payment to a contractor under a home improvement loan covered by its provisions either by an instrument jointly payable to the contractor and consumer or, at the consumer’s option, into escrow. § 1639(i). The inclusion of a prohibited term constitutes a failure to deliver material disclosures and triggers the extended right of rescission under §1635(a). § 1639(j).
Expanded Assignee Liability. In addition to the right of rescission for failure to give
additional disclosures or to meet the substantive protections described above, the HOEPA amendments make the assignee liable for all claims and defenses the consumer could assert against the original mortgagee. §1641(d). See also In re Rodrigues, 278 B.R. at 688-90 (discussing expanded assignee liability, eliminating “holder-in-due-course protections” for assignees of high cost mortgages; also citing recent cases under HOEPA). For non-HOEPA consumer credit transactions, assignees are liable only for violations apparent on the face of the disclosure statement, except where the assignment was involuntary. § 1641(e). Section 1641(d) provides a defense only if the assignee demonstrates that a reasonable person exercising ordinary due diligence could not determine, based on the required documentation, the itemization of the amount financed and other disclosure of disbursements that the transaction was a HOEPA loan. See Cooper v. First Gov’t Mortgage & Investors Corp., 238 F. Supp. 2d 50, 56 (D.D.C. 2002) (discussing due diligence required as going beyond reviewing documentation to analysis of it and whatever further inquiry is reasonable). In addition, under § 1641(d), a HOEPA loan assignee is liable not only for TILA violations, but also for all claims the consumer could assert under other laws. See Barber v. Fairbanks Capital Corp., 266 B.R. 309, 320 (Bankr. E.D. Pa. 2001) (assignee of HOEPA loan is subject not only to TILA claims and defenses but also is liable for state consumer law violations, such as UDAP statutes (discussed below), that debtor could have asserted against original mortgagee).
There are tons of info out there and I bet there is plenty the lender - loan-mod folks are liable for too. Loan Mods (IMHO) are strange beasts - because it's almost a perfect gift for the lender. I bet we'll start seeing lawsuits brought against these lenders for their handling of the loan mods. Once you start seeing what how tough the mortgage laws can be - then read what these same lenders are doing to folks converting their mortgages to some quasi-mod-mortgage - honestly to me - they just don't pass the smell test... The securitization aspect is a whole other pile of rocks to sift through... Dates are very important to Fed regarding mortgage loans - dates can trigger RESPA - TILA - HOEPA etc... That's why it boggles my mind to hear so many horror stories of the lender dragging their feet - jerking folks around - changing their mind... How is that possible after reading section (C) above "Timing of Disclosures" It doesn't make sense to me...
I bet the first lawsuit busting these lenders will be "Fraud in the Inducement" - Conspiracy to Defraud - etc.... They can't get away with ignoring some much law for too long...
Thanks Doghouse, the information you supplied will likely be used after my call to Greentree today. I appreciate and share your passion on this topic.
You may recall, I sent in an offer to settle my second mortgage for about 5% of the balance. I received a letter a month later indicating they have forwarded my request for a "short sale" to the appropriate department and to call 877-xxx-xxxx. I’m not sure why they indicated short sale.
So I called today and I was transferred to the short sale person and reached her voicemail. I did not leave a message since I don’t want them calling me 100 times a day. I called back and spoke to who answered and explained the situation. She explains that she will change the status of my loan and indicated I would need to speak to the recovery department. I was transferred again. Spoke to someone in recovery and I explained the situation. I explained that I could not pay and I never put the house for sale, etc.
She provided this offer, to pay the 5% and then $150 a month for the next 6 months. I explained that I couldn’t do that that I’m borrowing money and my intention is to settle, a long-term solution rather than a short term. She explains they cannot accept 5% to settle. I explained they would have no recourse, house is upside down, they likely don’t have the documents they need from National City, that they cannot garnish my wages and I have no assets, and they would be the 15th company or so in line for a deficiency judgment. She explained that its good that I did not go through the short sale route as they would have came after me for the deficiency, she asked if I knew that and I explained that yes, I did some research on that.
I think she mumbled that they would take a 25% discount but she then went on to indicate that if I pay the 5% and make monthly payments of $100 per month, I can do that indefinitely. I asked if they could put that in writing she was hesitant. I explained that with all due respect, if I were to enter into an agreement, I would first want it in writing and I cannot simply rely on trusting her over the phone. She indicated that if I paid the 5%, I could then pay $50 per month indefinitely, but I would have to "renew" it every 6 months due to their system limitations. She promised that it would renew every 6 months. I said ok, I would like it in writing. I explained my hardship and strategy. I explained that I intend to go BK7 and have the rest of my debt discharged but I cannot have the 2nd discharged (as of yet I mentioned). I explained that I am trying to resolve this so I can move on. She seemed sympathetic, indicated her son recently was in the hospital and she had no insurance, etc.
I again go back and explain I am looking for a long-term solution, settlement in full. She explains she will talk to a co-worker supervisor whatever and see what she can fax over. She asked that I call her back on Friday to further discuss.
This sounds like typical collection crap to me. She is asking me to pay $2200 for the 15 months I haven’t paid and enter into an indefinite repayment plan of $50 per month as long as needed. Though it sounds nice, Im sure its total bull. One thing is she was not nasty at all, beside the we are here to help you crap, she was nice and I couldn’t really yell at her. Anyway I thought to share this and ask for input on it.
I was reading on another site, that discusses actual short sales. It seems that they wont take less than 30% to settle in full and anything less, they would issue a “partial release” which doesn’t make sense, I guess its for short sales. It indicates they would go after the borrower for the deficiency. I don’t plan on selling the house, I just want to get rid of the 2nd, doesn’t seem like greentree is going to vend this out to a collection agency. Statute runs in 3 more years for a written contract in my state. Not sure if that applies to a lien on my mortgage though. I can barely afford to pay 10%, which is what I want to do for a full release. Maybe I should wait them out.
I agree with you - it sounds exactly like typical collections bs…
Short Sales are really a BAD DEAL - PLUS - they IRS will come in and bust you for taxes - which I also think is totally bs…!
Get the PAYOFF in writing - get the deal in writing -
You have what’s considered a “complicated” loan. If they sent you information regarding the total to bring your account current (payoff the arrears), I’d be willing to bet they figured it on the FULL blown interest rate and NOT on your discounted rate. I might be wrong but most operate that way. Folks don’t know any better and never catch on to their game because they’re just trying to save their damn house. These lenders/collection agents don’t care and POCKET the extra money. However, that is a violation of the Unfair Debt Collection Act - and violates several other laws.
Most lenders/debt collectors are rarely-ever challenged by those they are targeting. Some folks fight it but rarely will even an attorney challenge this stuff because it means they have to WORK for it. So, do your amortizations - use everything you have to rework EVERY freaking number they give you. Most of the time they calculate your arrears using the WRONG interest rate - image that, right? Yep, they do and they’ll typically tack on fees and whatnot and if you don’t know those charges are ILLEGAL or wrong, they will NOT tell you. So, do the homework and KNOW exactly WHAT they are doing because that can be a STRONG “influencer” to suddenly give them a change of heart. You might be surprised. Personally, I think all debt-collectors & lenders should be subjected to waterboarding to make them tell the truth… but hey, that’s just me….
Another update. I called today and spoke to someone else in the collections department. She explains that no way would they accept 5% and they countered with 25% and would not come down. She explains they can be broken down into payments but she wouldnt but anything in writing until we can come to some sort of an agreement. She initially demanded a down payment and I explained I would absolutely not without something in writing. She then went on about this is a contract which you have not honored, blah blah blah, I explained the only reason I am trying to resolve this is to remove the lien, I intend to go BK7.
I explained I would definitely qualify for it but whatever. We argued a little about moot issues.
I explained I might be able to do 15% but explained no way at the 25% and we should just end the call if thats wheres it at. We are here to help she said, I was so gracious .
I dont think 25% is too bad, not what I hoped but something I can manage. It doesnt seem like they can do much so I can wait them out a little more and see what I can save but the one thing that bothers me is that they would need financials to show a hardship. Im not sure why that would be needed, they really cannot foreclose on the home so they have to sit on it until they can get some sort of equity which wont be within the foreseeable future. Im not confortable sharing my financials with them. I really dont have room to pay them but still, if they see an extra $300 a month, will they try to use it against me.
So they are offering $11K for resolution of a $43600.00 balance. Still do not know what to do. Cannot come up with that type of cash anytime soon, maybe over the next 2 years, not to sure.
Any opinions on sharing financials for a settlement?
So I havent made much progress so I decided to go the old fasion route, email everyone and their mother. Seems that an email to Keith Anderson, the president of the company, got their attention.
I received a call from a supervisor though, he explains he removed my letter and no way could they take 5% of the loan. I again explained that the loan has no value and they should consider negotiating, that I cannot afford the 25% but can do a little better on my 5%, trying to meet them in middle somewhere. To no avail, they would rather wait, and wait. I explained my recourse and strategy and explained that I still cannot understand why they do what they do, hold on to worthless notes.
The minimum per their settlement guidelines is 25% with an option to pay over time. Just frustrated, I do not understand how others managed to due it for less but it all seems like its linked to the investor. Good luck to all, I intend to attack this in a different way, QWR, audits, etc, we will see what happens.
So Philly, what is the latest with Green Tree? 25% settlement on my loan is about the same amount. Wonder if they would be willing to allow you to make the payments spread over like a 4-5 month period?
I haven't heard from Green Tree in months, except for the automatic phone calls. I hang up. As far as I'm concerned it is worthless paper they purchased or service for the investor. It doesn't matter, I'm not giving them anything. I have an attorney now dealing with the foreclosure. If they call and offer 5%, which it looks like they won't, so be it. I'm broke, there is no money, only what I can live on.
So did Green Tree forclose, or simply just charge off your loan?
I had my loan charged off with Green Tree in March and have still not received any response. I am deep underwater with my first and second(Green Tree).
I tried to do a short sale and it did not work, since green tree did not want to fully release lien for 10% of the balance.
So many months later, nothing is happening; I guess they could be waiting on this week hearings in Washington.
I was reading some of the comments about Green Tree, and I recently got a letter from Bank of America stating my second loan HELOC has been transferred to Green Tree, back in 7 months ago I succesfully got a modification on my 1st loan with BOFA, from an interest only to a step rate @ 3.5% which wasnt a huge savings but im okay with the 1st loan, it got me out of the interest only deal, since i have been the home for 4 years now, 4 years of paying interest, although like everyone else my property is upside down, but its home, now, before BOA transferred the HELOC, the 2ND loan they sent me modification papers twice, and I signed twice and I guess the modification was approved again with no savings, they dropped it from 6% interest only to a 3.25% floor rate, but since its not interest only I am not paying less money, I am paying more. My problem is I cant afford the 2nd loan and I am wondering what my options are, I am wondering if Green Tree is sort of a collection agency / servicer for people are have told them they cant afford the payments, because honestly I wish the 2 nd would vanish.
I dont know, they didn't tell me anything, my 1st was never late and on the HELOC i was told the modification wasnt complete when I communicated with OOP at BOFA. My credit has a freeze on it, how can I find out?
Thank you. I was wondering how that worked. What can happen if I do not pay?
Well my first payment is not due until next month Jan 2010, not in danger yet, from the statement BOFA added the missed payments to the HELOC principle. I know the payments are going up from what they used to be, they were $150 interest only, now they would probably be $300 dollars, which is not a real mod, if they sold it cheap, they could have offered me a better deal.
I may be a little confused on this : ) OK, I know your BofA 1st has been modified and that's great. But why is the GreenTree HELOC being billed by BofA if the loan has been assigned / sold to GreenTree? Whatever the reason is, in the final analysis, your HELOC is not going to be a factor here. When you decide you want to deal with them, it's going to be negotiation, where you may end up paying as little as 10% (who knows?) of the loan balance in return for their reconveying the lien. And another thing to consider is this. You may not ever need to worry about your HELOC and its lien if you don't ever plan on selling or refiing. The lien can just sit there forever while you enjoy your home.
OK, good information, because after I signed the mod for the HELOC two months ago(have not paid for 6 months bc of the mod process ), I told them I cant afford it, but they didn't listen, they said they go by what your income is. The letter was dated Dec 10, 2010 saying my loan was being tranferred to Green Tree, and I came to the site to try and figure out what was the stragedy behind it. My property is worth 200k, my first is 220k, the 2nd (HELOC) is now 56k, so there it is, its not worth it, but of course I want to keep my home, and want it to be a fair all around deal, and I really cant afford another $300 on top of the $1300, not including HOA at another $278. I was concerned about my good credit and now I am contemplating what is more valuable right now, and in the next 5 years. They transferred the HELOC right after the mod.
OK, the part I didn't get was that your 2nd was also modified. That said, financially it makes no sense either for your budget or for home equity to pay on the 2nd. I do understand that your credit rating is still important to you. However, since you say you cannot afford to make payments on both the 1st and 2nd, you will have to make some hard decisions on what not to pay, whether it be the 2nd, or CCs or ? In any event, unfortunately, you are likely to suffer some damage to your credit rating. You have lots of company in that regard on these forums.
Well Greentree just sent me a Notice of Default inthe mail today, says 30 day to pay past due amount of $3000. Good scare tactic, I plan on replying with a letter. I'm over $90K upside down, and still current on my 1st mortgage.
Why would Green Tree not default on someones loan, if they have every right to?
Here's the content of the letter, as an FYI I'm in CT. which is a judicial foreclosure state, and requires mediation between the borrower and lender in all foreclosure activity.
Brief identification of credit transaction: Loan Secured by Real Property
Dear Borrower: . -
You are now in default on the above-referenced credit transaction. You have the right to correct this default within thirty (30)
days from the date of this Notice.
If you cure the default, you may continue with the contract as though you did not default.
Your default consists of: Failure to submit pour monthly payments due 07/01/2010 through 12/01/2010. --- -- Cure of default: Within thirty (30) days from the date of this notice you may cure your default by sending the total amount of $3,005.99 or you may cure your default by completing a modification or repayment agreement arranged through Green Tree Servicing LLC ("Green Tree") by contacting the Collection Department at the above-referenced address.
Creditor's rights: if you do not cure your default within 30 days from the date of this notice, the maturity of this loan is accelerated and full payment of all amounts due under the loan agreement is required without further notice from us. You have the right to reinstate after acceleration and the right to bring a court action to assert the non-existence of a default or any other defense of borrow to acceleration and sale.
If this default is not cured, Green Tree will report the defaulted loan to any appropriate credit reporting agency.
If you have any questions, contact Green Tree at 800-643-0202 (phone) or 866-210-6192 (fax) Monday through Friday between
the hours of 8 a.m. and 6 p.m. Mountain Time. You may also contact Green Tree in writing at the above-referenced address.
If this default is caused by your failure to make payments, and you want to pay by mail, send a certified check, money order or
cashier's check. DO NOT SEND CASH.
If you are unable to cure the default due to an involuntary loss of employment or other reason, counseling assistance may be
available to you from certain agencies that are HUD-approved mortgage counseling agencies. You may contact us to get the
name of the mortgage counseling agency that is closest to you.
I posted a few weeks back in the settlement section.
I have a 2nd HELOC with Green Tree $48,000 was $50,000(I believe it is actually owned by Bank of America)
My 1st is with Chase and is current $185,000 owned by Freddie Mac
Home value per Zillow is about $220,000. I think it's worth about what the 1st mortgage is. Foreclosure auction maybe $160,000-$180,000.
I filed BK7 in 2009 due to credit card ,medical debt, and loss of income. I did not reaffirm either mortgage so both were discharged which means I am not legally obligated to pay the 1st or 2nd. I can walk away at anytime if I wish, so said the very honorable judge and our wonderful bankruptcy laws (God Bless BK!)
I have been foolishly paying on the 2nd also until last month when I was only 9 days late. Green Tree called numerous times and even left a message on my answering machine stating they were calling to collect a debt. I finally answered the phone and spoke with a rep. The rep said she was calling to inquire why I had not payed and she was calling to get the account current. She wanted a payment and wanted to know if I was prepared to make a payment by phone. It kind of caught me off guard and I asked her if it was normal for them to call when it was only 9 days late.
I quickly came to my senses and realized that Green Tree was breaking the Federal Bankruptcy laws by calling me. I informed the rep that her and her company was in violation of the bankruptcy codes. Of course this had the rep speechless. She stated that they were unaware of my discharge. I asked her if her records indicated a BK7, she said yes. She said I needed to send over a copy of the discharge (which is a lie). For the next few days the calls kept coming but I did not answer. I finally paid it and the calls ceased. I did not want them calling me during the holidays, so that's why I paid.
A few days later I received a letter/statement via mail. It clearly stated on the letter/statement that the loan was included in CH7 and that the letter was not an attempt to collect the debt. It also stated that if it was not paid, Green Tree "may" exercise their rights to the lien.
So this woke me up and made me realize that I need to settle this 2nd. From this month forward I will not be paying Green Tree. I plan on putting the payments in a savings account to use to settle with.
I also plan to document and/or record any and all phone calls from Green Tree. If necessary, I will also reopen my bankruptcy and sue Green Tree for punitive damages if warranted. I'm sure some lawyer would love a free payday. Is it possible that this may also help get my 2nd settled or erased completely?
Does anyone have anything else I should think about or have any advise?
Does my plan sound reasonable?
What else should I do?
Good. Now, please try not to even think of GT any longer. And my advice, for what it's worth, is never pay a creditor just because you don't want them calling anymore! If you do, you've played right into their hands, because that's what they're hoping will occur. Instead, turn your phone ringer way down, user your caller ID, never answer calls from the creditor, and never return messages. Most forum members have figured out a way to handle collection calls, some, for instance, telling their creditor to change their phone number to a Google phone number, which doesn't ring - just goes to vm.
I need some help on making a settlement offer to Green Tree for a mobile home. The loan balance is $45,000. Can anyone advise on what percentage they would be willing to take or where I should start? Thank you!