Lost...glad you had family able to help you out. Good call about keeping home insurance. The attorney I spoke to advised to pay the homeowner's insurance and HOA until it was legally no longer our house...just in case.
Lost...glad you had family able to help you out. Good call about keeping home insurance. The attorney I spoke to advised to pay the homeowner's insurance and HOA until it was legally no longer our house...just in case.
Woody:
Just wanted to jump in after reading through your posts. We're in Gilbert, AZ and went through a loan mod last April. We were forgiven 20% of the principle and they gave us a lower fixed interest rate on our primary residence. We're with Wachovia though and had one of those crazy interest only loans. It actually worked in our favor that we made decent $$$. It was easier to qualify for the loan mod they said.....weird I know. We also have a rental house and a few residential lots with M&I that were modified as well. We did not get a principle reduction on those, but they gave us a lower interest rate and we ended up saving $700/month between those 3 properties. I know you were curious about loan mods a few posts back and thought I would share our experience. It was actually pretty easy and painless. We did have to be late one payment with Wachovia, but M&I did it without us missing any payments.
So whay type of law did the lawyer you went to specialize in...real estate, BK? We are probably going to need to find a lawyer soon. Even with our loan mods, we have one residential piece of land that is ****ing us dry. I'm pretty certain I will be losing my job in July and we can not continue with it. We pay about $1500/month on a piece of dirt that is worth about $100K less than what we paid for it 7 years ago! We tried to be responsible and save for our future and we put our $$$ in real estate (we bought all of it before the boom) and even though it was purchased several years ago, it's underwater. We're in the process of a short sale on the land and actually have an offer (owe $220K offer is $90K....last comp sold 6 months ago for $125K). We really need to speak to a lawyer I think and decide what the best route is for us. Since this stupid piece of land is not our primary residence, I'm sure we are up a creek!
Thanks for sharing your experience here!
AZhelp...thanks for the post. I'm glad your mod went so well; I can't believe they knocked 20% off the principle...good for you! We are not interested in a mod unless they forgive the $160,000 we're under, so that's why we're walking. I only want to prolong the inevitable to save some cash and pay off our credit card debt before we move. We're sad to leave, but have to face the facts about our financial decision. Yesterday I got calls from both lenders and told them that I lost hours and hope to get caught up in February. Both people were very nice...I know they're doing their job and thankfully they were very understanding. They said I was in danger of foreclosing if I don't make a payment, and I said I understood but don't know when I can. I hope to string them along for a while. Heck, if we could get 10 months out of the deal that's 25 grand we'd save.
Anyway, in reference to your question about the lawyer. I'm almost positive he was a BK lawyer, but I'm not certain. He did say that he's dealing with MANY foreclosures now as well. I'm not interested in a BK; I just want out of the house. I mentioned before that he and his wife walked away from their house, so that made me feel that much better about our decision....he was pretty cheap, too. I can find his name and pass it along if you'd like. I'm pretty sure he was in Gilbert off the 60 and Val Vista.
Keep us posted on your walk...
Saturday morning at 8:05 the phone rings. I thought about letting it go, but I went ahead and waited for them to pick up. VERY nice, very helpful woman from EMC calling.
"But, I just spoke to your company three days ago. Isn't it noted in my account?"
"Yes, but just wanted to check on if you made a payment."
"Three days ago I said I couldn't (actually wouldn't, but she doesn't know that! Ha!) make my payment."
"Well, we just wanted to see if maybe you won the lottery." (I can't believe it, she just made a joke...and it was kinda funny! I instantly like her.)
"I don't know when I can make a payment. Are you going to call everyday?"
"Actually, if we talk to you we wait 3 days before calling back, but if there is no response we call every day." (again, VERY polite. I still like her.)
And then she offers this:
"If you like, I can give you the fax number and the mailing address for a cease and desist letter. If you send that, we legally can't call you." (wow, she's totally helping me out. I think this must be a dream.)
I proceed to talk to her about my options, but she said that right now they are not doing mods on second loans (which this is), only first. I play dumb (I do it rather well) and ask about the possibility of (gulp...pause for dramatic effect) foreclosure...how long does it take? She says in Arizona, they can start the process a week after the first three payments, but she is not in that department and doesn't know how long it takes.
So now I'm off to find a cease and desist letter...anyone know any I can download for free?
Now I'm starting to wonder about trying for a mod...but ONLY to prolong the inevitable. I know we'll still lose the house, but if we can prolong it even more than why not? My question is this: how long can we prolong applying for a mod without actually sending them documents before they realize I'm not paying? I'm simply wondering if I send in some payments, 'accidentally' forget a few, send them in, wait for an answer...hopefully get one and make a few mod payments...miss a few...make a few...that I still come out way ahead in the money game. For example, if I make all my payments over the course of 13 months, that's $32,500. But if I only make 3 over that same time period, that's probably about $6,500 (assuming they knock off a couple of bucks). That's a savings of about $26,000 that can be used to pay off my c.c. AND we'll still be in the house.
So, help me out here....what am I missing? What's wrong with this scenario? By the way, while I am in the application period for a mod, can they foreclose in Arizona?
Thanks
Woody could you please private message me the name of your attorney? Thanks!
Thanks Woody for posting your experience in AZ. Im currently going through the same thing....and its nice to hear different perspectives. Our foreclosure sale is scheduled in May. Cant wait to have this %#$@ behind me and a future ahead.
Woody, your story sounds so much like my own, same situation, we made our last payment 2/1/09, they officially foreclosed 9/28/09, so about 7 mo's. The 2nd tried collecting, sent lots of mail and made lots of phone calls even up til Thurs. of last week. They were both purchase money loans and I received both 1099's marked "not personally liable for loan". Last year it was not as popular as it is today and I really think this is the year of the "walk aways", they don't want to help if it's not in their own interests, when the consumer figures out that it's in OUR OWN INTEREST to walk.. then the banks may sit up and listen. Although I feel that if we can get thru this ASAP without the government trying to intervene and give the people hope then maybe we can all get back on our feet and spend the difference in our house payments on getting this economy back on it's feet! HAHA!
AZhardship...sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but I was away for a few days and just got it now. I'll pass along the name, but I don't know how to PM...how do you do it?
CC...thanks for the post. Are you in AZ also? So it sounds as though you are all done with the process...overall how was it? I am actually hoping ours takes longer than 7 months, that's why I'm still debating on whether to prolong it by applying for mods I know I won't qualify for. Do I still have to pay while waiting for a mod?
We got our county valuation forms. Says our house is worth $275,000 this year and projected at $250,000 for the following year. Mind you, we paid $469,00 for it!
I just got my Maricopa Assessor notices - I owe $338k on my promary, 2011 assessor value $160k. Unsold house in Chandler (turning it into a rental later this year) , 1st & 2nd total $225k, 2011 assessor value $102k.
Ouch.
Yes Woody we are done and in Az, I never talked to anyone because we were not interested in modifying anything, we were over 50% upsides down and that could not be repaired with a mod, everyone in my neighborhood was up and leaving, I believe there are maybe 4 people left on my old block that were there from the beginning. My sister who also lives in Az and has been trying to short sale her house for a year now, she has not made a payment since Nov. 08, still no foreclosure notice but she is expecting one soon, she had a contract for the short sale and it fell thru so we'll see I guess. By the way we owed 410k on the house, bought at the end of 06' so right at the top and it just sold on the MLS for 165k, that was not a trustee sale.
GZ9...where is your rental? We will be looking for one in Chandler probably sometime around June/July/August...
Update...
We are now 90 days late.
So I checked the mail today and there was a letter from EMC (the 20 in our 80/20) for both me and my wife. I opened it up and there was the generic 'We need to talk' form letter...boy, is 'we need to talk' EVER a good way to start a conversation?
Anyway, I throw it on my table, and it flips over to the other side. On the other side is the 'Acceleration Warning (Notice of Intent to Foreclose)' on the back. I almost didn't even see it because the other side was garbage. Weird. In addition, we have gotten 4 or 5 messages from Monica from EMC asking to return her calls. The strange part is the 80% of our mortgage is with Saxon, and they haven't sent us anything yet. Why is that? Can the smaller one trump the larger one? I thought the larger of the two had 'first dibs' on our house. Is it possible the smaller one can forclose before the larger one?
I think the second may bug you more to try and get a payment out of you because they have the most to lose. If they start foreclosure proceedings (which they can) then they are either A: Screwing themselves or B: They think house is worth a lot more than you know it is...
Our first and second are both with Chase....last payment was September '09, and we were about four months behind at that point. The second bugged us waaaaaay more than the first, even before we got NACA involved. We get a call on the second about once a month just to check up and make sure nothing has changed at this point. I even had one very empathetic rep from the second tell me (in not so many words) that there is really nothing they can do at this point due to the value of the house.
If the second calls and threatens foreclosure, personally I'd explain to them that if they start foreclosure proceedings then they are only going to be spending money on the proceeding that they have absolutely no hope in Hell of recovering, since the house is not worth the amount of the first, let alone the second.
"It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
Dar...So when the house goes into forclosure, doesn't Saxon get their money first since they have the 80%? Does EMC get anything? I'm going to give them a call and see what they say. We're hoping to drag this out to October/November if possible.
I think it all depends upon the selling price of the house upon auction. As far as I know, the first gets their money first and then the second gets whatever (if anything) is left over. That is just my understanding from what I have read here.
"It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
Update...
A woman from EMC has called about 5 times and left a message saying I need to call her. I finally call the number, and it goes right to the 'general' population. I ask for Mary (of course no last name or extention). The woman says, "I don't know who that is." I LOVE how they tell me I need to call, then don't even give me an extention or direct number or even last name for crying out loud. I'm annoyed already so I just hang up when the woman starts to give me shit after I complain about trying to reach Mary.
Anyway, the calls really have largely stopped. We were getting 2 or 3 messages a day, plus numerous hangups when neither of us wanted to answer the phone. I have 2 cease and desist letters ready to go, but now it's not necessary. The calm before the storm?
I was going to tell her that we realize now (a complete lie since we've planned this since November) that we are going to need to apply for a mod. Now phase 2 will start when I start asking for forms and sending them in half complete. Remember, we just want to waste as much time as possible. I will also try HAMP. We won't be approved because we earn too much, but if we could get another 2+ months of free rent out of the deal that's what we'll do.
Wish us luck...
Hi Woody,
Would you mind sending me over the contact info for your attorney? I tried PM'ing you on here, but cant figure out how to do it!
Thanks!
Matt
Matt,
Sure, here's his name and number:
Law Office of Chris Dutkiewicz, P.C.
3303 E. Baseline Road, Suite 107E
Gilbert, AZ 85234
Telephone: 480-505-1877
He does all kinds of BK and foreclosure. Nice guy; I'm sure he wouldn't mind the business...
Good luck,
Woody
Update....
About 4 days ago, I got an email from Bank of America (I have a credit card with them). I was hesitant to open it only because there was an attachment, and I was afraid it was a virus. But...I took a chance and opened it today. I found out that my credit line was lowered from $6,000 to $4,300. Not a big hit, but I'm surprised they even bothered to do that. Of course, I have NEVER been late with a payment. I guess they think they 'won' because they lowered it a whopping $1700! My mortgage is with Saxon and EMC, so I guess the word on the street is that I'm a deadbeat since I haven't paid since November. And boy, will they make me pay! I'm a-shaking in my boots! Ooooh, lower my credit limit! Boo hoo, hurt my FICO!
We got our county valuation forms. Says our house is worth $275,000 this year and projected at $250,000 for the following year. Mind you, we paid $469,00 for it![/QUOTE]
Hi Woody,
We are in very similar situation...I'm in Chandler as well. Our last payment was in January. Feb was our first missed and I did it willingly at that point because my mod which was started in September 09 with four continued payments made, was denied...because we didn't meet the 31% income criteria...ie, we make too much. That is such crap because they did not consider our 2nd nor our expenses. Anyways, we received our assessor letter and our $450K house is assessed at $230K now.
Like many, I am angry that despite the Hamp program, we can't get help. I am going to possibly try HAFA when it comes out 4/15/10 but only if they do not require that I make continued payments as we wait for the short sale process.
From everything that I've read, we are fine as both loans are purchase money. I just need to get over the concern about having to move and all the hassle that it brings!
Keep us posted on your progress as I am only two months behind you. Thanks so much.
NeedPeace...thanks for writing. Nice to hear (under the circumstances, of course) from another in Chandler. Boy, our houses are dropping at about the same rate! I'm so annoyed at the 31% because, like you, we make too much, but they don't take into account those darn everyday living expenses. I mean, come on! Without those I'd be RICH!
Anyway, keep us posted on your progess as well. Any notes yet? You know what's really interesting, is that for the past month or so I haven't been sleeping well at all. I don't know why; I was sleeping soundly when we were racking up all this debt to stay in this house, but now that it's going away I can't sleep. So annoying! I'm at total and complete peace with leaving this house (although I'm sad), and I thought that I would be sleeping like a baby....
Woody,
I hear ya about the sleeping thing. We've made the decision and there's no going back as the 30 day late hit our credit already so I should be ok with the decision but the truth is, I'm really good at second guessing myself. I'm still so scared as to whether we are doing the right thing and long term, is this the best option that I could have chosen. I look around my house of four years and see how small it is with little ones running around and no room to have for all their toys, the carpet that needs replacing but we can't afford to do it, the cabinets that we said we would definately replace after we move in, and all the other little things that we've put off doing. In a few months, we will have to pack it all up and start over. So scary and the thought of it just overwhelms me. I'm not gutsy enough to stay past the trustee sale date, whenever that may be. I think we are having the realator come over this weekend to list it for short sale and see what happens from there. Even though I've read a lot on this site, I'm still not totally versed in the time line and foreclosure process. Please continue to post your update as you are a glimpse into what is head for me....thanks...and I hope you get better sleep!
Arizona:
We have an ARM and decided we cant sell and dont even want to mod, this month will be our first missed payment. My question is can the BofA come after my savings? We did take out 10k when things were good too.
HUGE update....
I found out that my house is scheduled for auction on 6/9/10. We were very surprised, and somewhat disappointed, to see it so soon. We were hoping on dragging this thing out much more. That would put us at 7 months, which seems to be the average time from last payment to auction. I called Saxon and said we wanted to keep the house....what, oh what could we do? We did a quick overview of our budget (with about 1,000 a month lopped off of our current salary since we are anticipating a salary cut), and they said to call back and see if we qualify for a HAMP. I called a week later, and good news! We did qualify. Our original payment of $2,066 was reduced to $1906. Wow, I said, really? $150? That's the lowest they could go. It really is a joke. I said send over the paperwork. Then a couple of days later we got 7, count 'em 7, certified letters telling us of the auction. All 7 were the same exact copy. Then I went to the mailbox, and there were...guesses, anyone? 7 more of the SAME exact copy. So, I collected all 14 copies and asked my family if they wanted copies to collect and trade.
My wife and I have thought about trying a short sale ONLY to draw out the process since we want to stay rent free for as long as possible. We've been going back and forth for the past couple of days, but today we decided to just get it over with. Sure, we could possibly go longer, but then we'd be worried about what kind of rental we could find when we did move, plus all the damn paperwork involved and the headache of not knowing when it would end....so, we decided that June 1 is when we leave.
We already have someone looking at rentals for us, and if we find something we really like we'd be willing to move in May since we're not paying anything now. I think I might stay in the house for a few days after the auction to see if they offer anything for cash for keys. One question: if I'm not at the house, would they track me down to make the offer? Actually, another question: do I contact Saxon and EMC and tell them our new address on June 1 and then say have a nice life? How does that work?
If you want cash for keys you may need to "squat" at the house for awhile and make it look like you are living there. Maybe get a rental lined up and get most of your stuff moved into the rental, then stay at the old house with the bare essentials until they come-a-knockin'. That was what we were going to do until DH was laid off...don't think we'll be able to do cash for keys with a Chapter 7 BK involved.
I can totally relate to just wanting to get this crap over with. DH will probably file within the next three or four weeks and while we're pretty certain the process will REALLY ****, at least we will be able rid ourselves of the stress of uncertainty and start moving on with and rebuilding our lives. He has a consult with a highly recommended BK attorney tomorrow, so I'm anxious to hear what this guy has to say. Finally, after a year of this BS the light at the end of the tunnell is getting brighter! Sounds like it is for you too!
"It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
I am planning on squating for while in the hopes of getting some cash for keys. The wierd thing is I found out about my auction date only after getting some letters in the mail from realtors trying to convince me to do a short sale. My house is still not in the county assessor's page, even though the mortgage company sent in my information. How do they know? I guess they have their spies out there looking for foreclosures. I'll probably be taking a few things when we leave, but for the most part I'm leaving everything behind.
Our families have been great throughout the process. They all basically said the same thing "We're proud of you for making a tough decision and doing what's best for your family. You have forces beyond your control working against you. People who work in real estate for a living made the same mistake as you..." It's always nice to hear that your family supports you. Now it's on to the friends and neighbors...
Boy, it does feel good to get 'the secret' out. Don't know if it will have any long-term effects on friendship (hope it doesn't, of course), but no more worrying about hiding it from people.
Woody,
Good to hear that you made a final decision. It is sooner than I expected as well. We stopped payment in Feb so based on your time line, we should be getting our 14 letters in August. We are trying to do a short sale, and in fact, meeting with a realator today.
I wish there was a way to private message as it would be nice to meet over coffee since we are both in the same city. I need all the moral support I can get!
Woody,
Funny you mention hearing from realtors first about your auction date. We found out our house goes on 6/11 after getting about 10 different letters from realtors one day. We have since got four different copies of the legal stuff from the lawyers. Your story sounds almost exactly like ours. We have thought about trying a short sale to extend our rent free time but at the end of the day, we are just ready to leave our money pit behind and move on with life.
Hopefully we can get some extra cash from the cash for keys program but I'm not counting on it. Good luck to you.
Well, we've been checking out the rentals in our area: Chandler and Gilbert. There are some really nice houses out there that are available now. It sure is tempting to grab them now, but since we don't need to leave the house before June 9th there's not sense in blowing 2 months free rent...right? My wife is really worried we won't find a house, but I know we will...it's just finding the RIGHT house. Our main want is a pool, and those seem to go pretty quickly. The interesting part is we have called 3 or 4 realtors about a house we found, left a message to call back, and....nothing. Silly me, I thought there was a recession going on and everybody needed work. Apparently there are a few realtors who are too busy to call potential customers back. My wife thinks they haven't called back because they are already leased. Now, that may very well be true, but is it too much to at least call us and tell us that? Plus, a realtor might have another property we are interested in. Just plain rude is what I say...
We are looking at a house tomorrow. I'm a bit concerned for two reasons: the ad said the house was about 2100 square feet, but when I looked it up on zillow.com it said 1600 square feet. Plus, the owners are currently underwater with the value of their home. Boy, I have become quite adept at finding information on houses, owners, and what they paid on the Internet. Thank god for public information! Anyway, we are leery of renting from a property that's underwater, but my thinking is that as long as we are covering his mortgage, it should be fine. However, I told my wife that we need to be hard-asses on this and ask for a current mortgage payment to make sure it is lower than our rent. I don't want to move and find out 6 months later he's also going into foreclosure. Our lawyer told us that. I say that if the owner doesn't want to show us financials, then we'll just walk away from the property. After all, we have some experience with walking away! Ha!
I'm wondering about the auction. I really wish I could go that day, but I'll be at work. What happens if no one buys it? I know if they do in AZ, we have 5 days to vacate the property, but what if it goes unsold? Could we stay here until it does sell?
Sean, I am also hoping for some cash for keys. I think I'll squat for a few days and see what happens, even if my family is in another house. It is funny how we found out from all those realtors about the auction before anyone else. Found out the other day that we are 'officially' listed on the maricopa website as being auctioned! Yeah, we finally made it, I told my wife; we've gone public! We have to laugh at this entire foolish situation. I think the short sale is a waste of time and energy. It may buy you more time, but at what cost? Just be done with the whole thing and start over again.
NeedPeace: as far as I know there is no way to PM on this website...not that I even know how to do that anyway. Do you have anyone you can confide in? It really does help to have others to talk to. Let me know if I can help in any way. Hopefully you won't get your letters in August...I'm still bummed it's 'only' 7 months! Good luck with your meeting...let us know how it went.
I believe if the home does not sell at auction, then the home transfers from the trustee to the bank, and now it's the banks problem. If your house doesn't sell, the bank will want to get rid of it as soon as possible, so they would then have to start the eviction proceedings. Unless they don't care.
Actually, the bank does NOT necessarily want to get rid of it ASAP. See this Washington Post article: New round of foreclosures threatens housing market - washingtonpost.comOriginally Posted by Buckus
Woody, you might be able to rent your house from your mortgager after the foreclosure!
Woody, can you tell me how you find what someone paid for their property. I know it's public information but unless its a recent sale, I don't see the price on zillow. Thanks.
NeedPeace...it's pretty simple to find that information.
First go to maricopa.gov
On that page, you'll see a quick links on the left.
go to assessor/parcel information.
Look for and click on Advanced search options
Type in street number and street name.
(for example: street number: 123 and street name: Main---you don't need to put in E.S.N. or W or avenue/way/circle/etc,)
Hit submit, and the information will show up. Look in the middle of the page under owner information. It will say selling price and selling date. Remember, it just says the price, it doesn't say how much the mortgage is or how much he put down.
Voila!
Let me know how it goes...
Quick update...the house we looked at on 3.28 was great...we loved it. Unfortunately, so did someone else who looked at it immediately after we did. Turns out the owner looked at both our applications, and took the other one only because they had a higher credit score. I asked the realtor what my score is, and he said it stands at 600. Was I pretty pissed at losing that house. BUT...we found two more that are much better. We are waiting to hear from them on Tuesday. We are the top applicants on both houses (funny, they are on the same block), so we feel pretty confident we'll get one. They have to run credit checks on Monday, and let us know. One said that we're the only one they are checking, and if it looks good then we get the house. Wish us luck...
Great news....My wife and I found a great house and we were approved by the owner to move into it in June. The woman said she had a stack of applications and it was very difficult to choose which family got the house. She appreciated our upfront honesty about our situation (she has a friend going through a foreclosure as well, so it helps that she actually knows someone), and ultimately chose us because she liked that we had steady jobs and a good credit history. I kinda feel we 'won' over everyone else on 'American Foreclosure'. Apparently my credit score is now about 575---down from over 700 when this started. Meh.... The funny part is we were offered another house we also really liked down the block, so we had two great houses to choose from.
We are seriously thinking now of putting the house up for a short sale. We won't be in it, but maybe if we sell it we won't be 'as damaged' as with a foreclosure. I was even wondering about having a college student live in our house while it is for sale. I figure if we could get 500 bucks a month (that would be a great deal for this house with a pool) and just collect that until it sells. I know we could stay here rent free, but my wife and I decided it's just easier to move on and get settled in a new place with the kids than live month-to-month not knowing what's going to happen. It's funny how excited we are about 'our' new house. But it's beautiful and has a diving pool and a spa, 4 bedrooms and a guest room, great lot, great location and neighborhood...for only $1400 a month. So that's $1100 less than we're paying now. Who can beat that?
Congratulations! Glad to hear that you found a great place for you and your family!
"It is sobering to reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in the struggle for independence."
Congrats, I just read through your whole story, and it should be an inspiration for others like myself. Getting rid of the debt burden (plus all the upkeep, etc) must be a huge relief.
It is a HUGE relief. I actually slept really well last night for the first time in a while, that is until my son woke me up at 5:00...
We are very excited to be moving on from this chapter in our lives. Thanks for the well wishes...
Woody,
Congrats on the house. Just out of curiosity, are you using anything particular to search for rentals? What websites are you using? We have found a couple but found the ones we like, others like too and are snapping them up because they can move in soon. We are still trying to wait until the end of May to move. Thanks.
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