I'm new here but reading some of these... oh boy

[Raini]

I am having a very difficult, yet reading some of the other posts. similar situation. I have a 1st mort & 2nd LOC with WAMU. I hit the skids last November and did everything I could to find out what to do to immediately start working on "fixing" my problem and get back on track with them. I talked with (I think) every employee at WAMU and ended up in the loss mitigation department who told me to fax all the necessary paper work to start a modification on the 2nd LOC. I did all and faxed it to the # Jackie gave me on 1/7/08. I called as soon as I faxed and got no return call. I called the next day and got switched around until I finally got a Carlos to talk to me, who explained that nothing was received, but asked "did you recieve the packett we sent you?" No and to this day I never have, even tho they tell me it has been mailed out a few times. I guess I need to file charges against my mail man or something eh? I called Carlos over and over, leaving voice mail after voice mail, only to be told to either refax the paperwork or tell me I haven't been assigned to anyone "yet", but not to worry "we will work with you, we don't want to take your home from you". Yes, I have been very emotional and I have called crying and begging for help. I'm widowed with 2 kids and extremely low income. I inherited the house free and clear, and let friends talk me into taking a loan out on the home to "raise" my kids more securely. Oh If one could go back in time.

When I couldn't get anywhere, I tried calling the loan agent at the bank to see if he could at least "guide" me, and, funny thing... He acted like he didn't want to touch me with a 10' pole. He was no help now, but he was my best friend during the obtaining of the loans.

All through February I would either get calls or make calls, always being told they were very busy, but I had been "accepted" and it was just a matter of time until they got to me. I wrote down dates and names all along the process. The last call came from a Doreen around 2/13, after I had made the late payment of 1,268.92 on 2/10. She told me they were still running about 30 days behind, and that payment did push me back, but if I could pay the next january late payment of 1,398.00 or something close, it would be even better. I told her right now I just can't that is why I've been asking for help, I have TWO mortgages to pay and I have the other coming up. It is smaller, but nonetheless, i am low income and only paid once a month. She said well at least try. Okay, sure, I will like I have been trying to work with them and get caught up since the end of November. DUH?
Now this past Satuarday, I got a letter from yet another person, not even the man Michael, I was assigned to (who also told me verbally I was accepted in the program) telling me I have been denied for modification of the loan and in the mail also another letter of intent to foreclose unless I pay the past due in 30 days.

Then yesterday (Sunday) I get another collection call, and for the first time since working with WAMU, I went off on that collector and told her what lairs WAMU are, for 2 months they have told me I was accepted into their modification program, even told me not to try to see if I might qualify for the FHA and just be patient and stay with them because they didn't want to lose me. This collector said she was speachless, as I was the first person she had talked to that had ever been denied for modification - Oh yeah, right... do I believe her and her sympathy.?. I've been decieved by all of them for a long time. Now this letter tells me I don't qualify due to my listed income. EXCUSE ME... I have the same income I did when I got the loans - but I also now am renting 3 rooms out in my house and did that to help pay my mortgages, but I couldn't just decide to raise rents when I hit the skids on my end to cover my butt.

I am going to call the person on the letter this morning, but is there any logic as to why WAMU strung me along? Does anyone know if this is a common thing with them or am I just the lucky one? Of course my angry insides are saying because they know they will get my house that still has an enormous amount of equity in it and they will not lose on me. When they appraised my home it came back at $800,000, and my loans together are just under $400,000. Throughout this process in talking to a modification assistant who has been begging me to let him "represent me", but who I didn't know enough to completely trust him either, said that is exactly what they were doing, I still have equity and WAMU will make money off of throwing me and my kids into the street, which is EXACTLY where will will be, as I only make $1,200.00mo due to working at home because I am partially disabled from a work injury in 95. On top of all the other crap stressing me out with this is the guilt that my dad left me his paid off home, and I have screwed up and I'm going to lose what he worked his entire life to leave to me because I believed people were really trying to help me. I really feel so vulnerable because I don't know who to trust any more. My folks are gone and so is my husband. I promised my dad I would take care of his grandchildren and see them through, and now I can't even see what's right in front of me. I am extremely distraught over all this crap I've been put through.

If anyone can help me with what I need to do or where I need to go from here. I put out a "distress" call to everyone I know that I could use help if they can to come up with $4,000 in 30 days. I know some will help, but I don't know if I came up with a $10,000 that WAMU at this point wouldn't tell me something else to keep me from saving my home.

And also, I did have my house appraised within the last month, just in case I was going to sell, and it came back at $600,000. I am aware the market has dropped, but I was shocked that mine had dropped that far after being told I owned a goldmine by the WAMU loan agent. Was I a victim of inflated everything, income and equity of home?

[03penny]

Raini,

Welcome to our forum. Our experience is that a WAMU does work very hard to help borrowers that can be helped. It appears from what you are telling me that when your loan was originated your income was significantly overstated or that your income now is a fraction of your prior income. Based on the income you have indicated you would not be able to make the payments even on a modification. FHA programs have very firm debt to income requirements. Your situation would not fit within those guidelines. The requirements for modification are based on your ability to make the payments.

The fact that the value of your home has dropped is a function of what is happening in the real estate market and is not controlled by the lender. Be assured that the lenders are extremely concerned by the drops in market value as well.

One possible workable option is for you to negotiate a short sale with WAMU and find an really experience realtor that knows how to sell a short sale. I am sad to say, but with a limited income, a $400,000 mortgage obligation exceeds the resources which you indicated that you have available to make the payments, maintenance, utilities and other living expenses. Based on what you are telling me you might have some resources after the sale. We always hope that we can guide you to a positive outcome, however, that has to be based on the actual facts in each case.

[Raini]

Thank you. My next question then is why did they give me the loan on the same income, minus roommates who now help pay monthly expenses? and why stop me from going another direction by telling me I was already accepted in their program.
One of my options two months ago was getting a cosigner. Am I too late now when I'm on the brink of foreclosure to turn other directions?

[03penny]

Raini,

I do not know why they told you what they did or why they strung you along. The first and most important question to you is can you make the payments? Did you document the roommate income to them and would they accept this income? Usually roommate or rental income has to be documented by tax returns. They may have a policy to accept some other form of documentation such as bank statements showing the deposits. This brings us back to the real issue of can you make the payments? Modification will not help if you do not have sufficient income to make the payments and enough income left to live on. The first criteria of most lenders for modification is the ability of the borrower to make those payments. (If they had firmly used this criteria in making the loan in the first place many fewer people would be in trouble today). The way this is determined is to use a certain ratio of debt payments to total income ususally capped at around 40%. That is the mortgage payment including taxes and insurance, plus all other debt cannot exceed 40% of your gross monthly income. If you have other issues such as ongoing medical expenses or several dependents you may need to use a smaller % of your gross income. Many financial planning professionals and non-profit debt consulting agencies recommend that your debt payments not exceed 33% of your income. If you have done this math, let me know if your debt ratio is in line with the above. Modification can perhaps lower your payment or prevent it from going up, but it is not a procedure to provide assistance in making the payment.

Your initial post indicates that you are only one payment behind, is that correct? If you come up with the past due payment are you going to be able to make the March and April payments? Also what is your current interest rate? Is your rate adjustable? If so when does it adjust?

We would like to be able to point you into a direction that would help you, but you must be able to continually make mortgage payments.

[Raini]

I never got a chance to give that info, I never received their full packett, I only faxed a hardship letter and in my letter said I have roommates and can obtain information on that if necessary. The rest was my bank statements and my 1099 for 2-3 years.
I called this lady on the denial letter at 9 a.m, but got voicemail & box full, so I will continue to call to get more info.
I'm just stressed out because before I found this website, I had found others that said WAMU and Countrywide were the two worst predatory lenders, and then I started panicking and thinking I had been hoodwinked all along. Your answers have helped ease up on panick. I will trodding forward. I do have one blood brother who I contacted also & told me not to panic, he said he will take care of it and help me not come out on the losing end. He has the resources that I don't have and we talked about him either cosigning or "buying" out my back monies giving me a chance to sell without panic. It was hard to ask him for help, just because since our folks passed, our lives went different places, but it also brought a little more calm to the table. Thank you also again.

[Raini]

PS: the interest - my 1st is 8.083% & 2nd is 9.450% - I'm not too "informed" on all of this & that is probably another reason, I'm in deep do do - but I had talked to a modification assistance guy and he said my first was as good as it gets and that if I went with him, he would go after only fixing the 2nd. I was going to go with him until he wanted payment up front and my biggest problem right now is that once I had the "avalache" I worse off than I was when I started trying to fix this because I have attempted to pour everything into loan payments.

Also - no i am almost at 3 months behind, no matter how fast i have scrambled because I can only pay a back one right now, even with the renters because I don't have savings after the November financial "oops" hit. The first mortgage they are going to setup a payment plan to include extra amount until caught up. I can handle that one, and have been working with them excellently, its the LOC back payments that are extremely high, but with recent changes, they told me the current ones will be less & that was why modification was suggested to me, because total between the two it was 1,900 a month and with my income, my boyfriend's income and 3 rooms rented, we can make the payments.

I do not have any other expenses other than utilities and one small Target charge card. Even my car is paid for. For being in low income bracket, I have a better c-score than one of my renters who is a longshoreman making 150,000 a year. I have really lived megerly and stayed away from plastic for the most part.

[03penny]

Raini,
I looks like you might be okay. Your rates for both the first and the second are not horrible. If you had excellent credit and your income vs debts was within the range explained earlier you might get a better rate on the first. Good for you for keeping your plastic under contol. I think the best of all worlds will be to take your brother up on his offer. Different lenders have different requirements for income documentation. If your boyfriend is not on the loan or the title I am not sure if they will count his income, since his participation in the household expenses is voluntary. If you do not have a history of the renters I am also not sure how they will view the income from them. If your personal income is in the range that I mentioned earlier you should keep after WAMU in the form of calls and faxes daily. Although you heard that they were a predatory lender in the past does not mean that they have not had a coming to Jesus. Some of their products were not understood or disclosed by the brokers selling them, but they are trying to work out as many as possible of their loans in trouble. The cost of foreclosure to them is huge and includes possibly reimbuirsing the securitizer who purchased the loan from them. It is a win win for the lender and the borrower if there is anyway to keep a property out of foreclosure, but it serves neither the borrower or lender just to modify the loan and foreclose later.

[Raini]

Okay. I have called them again and still got voice mail full. I will keep trying. Do you know if WAMU would just allow my brother to step into this loan, meaning will any lender let someone step in on an existing one? When I was working with the 1st loan department (as they are 2 different depts) they said the would include the renter income in their consideration. It has been difficulty as one side is very informative, returns calls etc., but the 2nd dept is very hard to contact, and do not really like to return calls and yet they are the one's i need to work with the most.

I also am confused on - if i am working with the 1st, and the 2nd is foreclosing - what happens with all together? At one point I had asked if I could do a refy no cash out to make them one loan and the 2nd said no that couldn't be done through them.
The amount to bring me current on the 2nd is just under $4,000, and in real time, that is not that much, but right now it might as well be a million - that too is so frustrating. I get paid today, and I'm trying to decide pour into the loan or pay other bills first. If I pay to the loan, does that push me back another 30 days again? or is this pay in full my last attempt to bring up the rears only.

I'm not actually in foreclosure the other letter gave me 30 days to pay the back due amount and was title Intent to Foreclose. Will anyone touch me or will having my brother cosign help change that?

I'll keep calling today and hopefully I'll get through to someone, if not the collection gal who called yesterday said if you can't get through to anyone on Monday, walk into your branch and talk to the top manager. I may do that if I can't get through on the phone. Its difficult & frustrating since I do work at home -when my hands aren't typing, I'm not earning money - its a vicious cycle - LOL.

[03penny]

The second can foreclose and bring the first up to date. They will then have your property and the equity. Bring the second up to date if you can. The second mortgage companies often do not originate first mortgages so consolidating with them is not an option. I am sorry that you are having so much trouble getting through to WAMU. If they advised you to go into your local branch that might be an option, however, they are bankers not mortgage servicers so they may be of limited help. You might also contact your state agency that regulates mortgage lenders and brokers and your state consumer affairs office. They should be able to give you some phone numbers that you might not have and they might actually provide some help. I would cc the regulators in your state on all of your correspondence from now on. Be sure to reference this at the bottom of the letter. In the beginning of the correspondence state how long and who you have been trying to contact.

I think that your brother would have to take out a new loan, generally you can not just ad someone to a mortgage after the fact. I think that if your brother could bring the first and second current it would buy you the time to get yourself out with some of your equity. If you foreclose, you will most likely lose all of your equity.

It seems that you do have some options. Get the second current pronto, work with the first as much as you can and have your brother either assist with the payments until it is sold or take out a new loan. Your brother's participation in the payments will most likely not be able to be used in a modification however it can get you time to get it sold.

[Raini]

OH thank you Penny - I just called the loss mitigation dept and let the phone go through to whoever answered, explained what I received in the mail and she went into the computer and say "this is really bizarre, I show that you spoke to ** on 3/3 and were told that you are accepted into the program, but we are still 30 days behind in getting to clients." She then took a payment over the phone and said I will speak to the person who sent you that letter, as our data shows you have already been accepted, and it can't be both." I got her name and extention and documated all because she again said "WAMU does not want your home, we work with our clients" OKAY?
I will work with getting caught up, that has been what I've been attempting. This lady today said told me to make the current payment because it is lower, and that the usually modify what's behind. So I hope that was the "right" choice for today.

WAMU is very good with working with their clients, however the original information that you posted is reflective of the fact that this house payment even modified maybe very difficult for you in the long run.

You need to seriously look at your options and determine if in the long run you should not consider a Short Sale on the property in order to come out with some equity and with your credit intact.

If the second is foreclosing that is the lender you should be contacting immediately to get the beast tamed, or to get a reinstatement amount that your brother can assist you with to pay the arrearage and pull the property out of foreclosure.

I seriously think that the situation here bears more than just modification as your income is just not going to support the payments on this property long term modified or not. Since your brother is not on the title to the property he would not be able to refinance, the lenders are not permitting bailout refinances....they are not allowing refinance for a party just made "in" title. This is consider borrower bailout and not allowed.

I would seriously consider the prospect of Short Sale and make arrangements with both lenders for that option.

[Raini]

Thank you. I'm not sure of the term short sale, is that just an name for getting the payment up to date, and being allow to sell it myself? My brother said that is what he will help with. I also called WAMU's loss mit. dept. again this morning and "verbally" was told that the computer shows I am listed as being accepted into the modification, and I have room renters and do think we could go back to being able to pay them once I get my part straightened out, however, the stress of this has really "aged" me and the more I've learned and started to understand, I think I may just sell and find something smaller like a mobilhome or something.
The other question to this - Originally back in Janaury when I was checking into the FHA loans, with brother as cosigner, I was told that would be a good idea, so I'm not sure about what a "bailout" is. Is that meaning now that it has come this far and nobody will do a refy or just with WAMU?

Your brother can co-sign with you on an FHA loan in order to qualify you however there are LTV restrictions, and only if the payment history is 0X30 in the last 12 months (no lates). Loan to Value, Bail Out means get you out of loan trouble, that is expressly forbidden in a refinance transaction where there is no continuity of title in the property chain of ownership. In other words if you are delinquent on your loan, then someone coming in to refinance and payoff the delinquent loan is forbidden in the lending world. Your credit would not support the loan, further more you can not sell it to your brother as that is a non-arms length transaction and is also forbidden in the lending world.

Short Sale means that you sell the property prior to the foreclosure and get the debts paid as best as possible, if you have equity which I recall that you do you can sell the property with the assistance of a Realtor that negotiates with the Lender to show that the property is Listed and for sale. At the point that you have a contract then then if you do have equity, the loans are paid in full and you are out of this situation.

It does not appear to me that you can afford the property, given the income that you reflected in your posts, even on an FHA loan, that much of a loan has a very high payment.

However if I remember from your post the problem you have is with the Second Mortgage Foreclosing...have you talked to them about this problem yet? You need to get the Second Mortgage current or WAMU will not be able to do the Modification while the property is in foreclosure, they will pull a preliminary title on the property and find out that it is in foreclosure.

[Raini]

I was never late on any payment until the financial incident that happened back in November, which sent me on this downhill slide. I had pretty descent credit too because I had no other debts except the loans. Now I found out that I have a lower score than I did when I got the loan, and I don't totally understand the terminology for that, but I'm sure even if I get help with the rearage payments, my other things will show up as being late payments for the last 3-4 months and my credit will be garbage.
I have talk to both departments about the 1st and 2nd (both WAMU), and have been in contact since December trying to get help as soon as I knew I was in deep trouble from an over charge payment of 1,000 to my checking acct., and that company informing me it would be 10-12 weeks before refund, by time that came about 2-1/2 weeks ago, I was in the nightmare of my life.

I guess a short sale is what my brother is probably going to help me proceed with then. He is away on business and will be back this week, and will call me. I'll pass your info on to him to help us in decision making. Believe it or not, I've learned more here in the last 24 hours, than I have by asking questions at WAMU for the past four months.
I'm still extremely frustrated as to why when I didn't have rent income (or a partner I was a widow then) I was okay to get this loan, but now with renter income and a significant other, I am not okay to try to modify and bring stuff down, as I've been told repeatedly that because sig. other is not on the loan with me and renters don't count as income. That doesn't make sense at all. That's was really irks me.

They can not use the income as the income from the renter does not have enough time being received. The original loan was probably a stated loan and they made the income up....they did it all of the time, go figure why we have these problems today.

Your brother will most likely only be able to lend you money to fix the problem, he can not refinance as he is not on the title and has not been for 12 months. Also you can not just add him and then go together to get a loan as your credit is now not that good.

Conversely you can not sell the property to him as it is not an arms length transaction....that is not acceptable to the lenders today. We went back to the old rules that worked in the first place.

I think for your sanity that you need to get the second current and put the property on the market with your brother's help. You will be in a lot less stress and life will get back to normal after all is said and done.

[Raini]

yes, I do understand that my brother can't buy it from me, we (he) definitely is only going to guide me through the "legal" issues and help me either bring up the rears to be able to walk away with some of the equity and not loose everything, and as you said "some sanity". As the other loan place had explained back a couple months ago, refying was an option, but I needed a cosigner because of the changes that had occurred. At that time what I didn't understand, but now do, was that I didn't know that lenders were inflating incomes. I understand now also what you are explaining as to I can't have him help me refy out of this. I just hope I will be able to take what I get out of this once termed "goldmine of equity" and be able to buy something smaller rather than spend my old age in my car or on a park bench somewhere.

Now I have to work on that the person yesterday told me I had been accepted in the program and had me pay a "current" payment that is less than one of the past due, and having received that other letter on Saturaday saying "intent to foreclose" and that i had to pay up in 30 days. Because again, I was told this would stop the process, and I'm not sure if I should believe that or if I will be surprised by something after being verbally assured I have time to proceed. This is another of the "scary" parts of this.

Also would you know with a short sale, how much time you have to "get out" of the home? I have 50+ years of parental possessions to pack up - that in itself is nauseating. Guess I'll start collecting up some boxes and find a storage unit.

I think that the scary part of this is that the Brokers inflated the incomes and the Lenders were compelled to "go along" with the program as it was put to me at this particular shop...we could not discriminate....it was considered discriminatory if we did not accept the income if we were questioning it, which we regularly did, and that the borrower's income was to be taken in such a way per the guidelines as to not be discriminatory. It was doomed, we had our hands tied, and if I could find a way to skirt the issue on these files, believe me I did. When I did all holy heck broke out, and in the final and end analysis, that income was accepted at a higher level cause if not, then we were being discriminatory toward that particular borrower.

It is more complex that that simple statement, but all in all the system was designed in this particular shop when you underwrote the loan to have certain tests applied to it, if it met those tests, then it passed. Never mind that it was completely ridiculous, it met the tests.

[Raini]

Geez, I don't like it, but that also bring some understanding as to why, rather than thinking I was just preyed upon.

I was really depressed at having to give up the life long homested, but the more I am understanding, I do believe my sanity is a lot more worthy of saving at this point. I've had to step aside and realize that it is only a possession, it is not my parents, it will not bring them back to me to hang on to this sinking ship.

Now, I move forward and start anew.

While floundering along with this I sure do wish I had found this site back a couple months, maybe this all would have gone a little smoother.

I really do thank you for the information that brought some logic to the madness I am going through. That was what I couldn't seem to get my hands on, all I was getting was large words/terms that I didn't have a clue to what they meant.

I do have one more question then. I haven't spoke with my brother yet, should I let the lender know now what I am planning on doing, or wait to talk with my brother first? I know I need to give the room renters all notice also.

I think that the first thing you should do is try to get the 2nd loan current, they are foreclosing you know....that would be of utmost concern.

Then speak with your brother while trying to work out with the lenders, if you brother agrees that sale is the answer, then at that point start the process with the lenders and the renters for that strategy.

[Raini]

Yes, I did talk to them yesterday and made a payment on the 2nd. And I did discuss with her that I was working with getting my brother to help me pay what is still owed.
The amount on the 30 day notice to pay was just under $4,000, and it said to check before paying in full to be sure I don't miss added amounts. I will do that also.

And have sent an email to my brother telling him to call me as soon as he is home so I can start this going. I'll get the info on what my equity payout will be - it's around $200,000, so I can then reimburse my brother upon selling also.

I just am not sure if I should tell the lender my plan before talking with my brother, or wait and be sure his statement to my sig. other of "I'll take care of it upon my return home" meant pay it current and sell or what. Don't want to "promise" something that I'm not positive on, type of thing.

I also had begun selling items attempting to help pay also, such as our trailer, second car, extra furniture, etc.

Like I said in my post before, before you speak to the Lender, speak with your brother, he may want to have some alternative issues reviewed prior to selling the family home....

If he is in a position to payout or to assist on a monthly basis that may be his choice....meanwhile, wait to speak with your brother on all of the issues that are important in these decisions and get the 2nd current.

[Raini]

Ok, I get it, sorry I missed what you meant. Will do that.

You also do not want to tell the bank anything until you make a final decision.

[Raini]

Ok - I only told her that I was trying to get help from my brother to get caught up on past due amount, but nothing about selling or anything.

Today I called a mortgage advocate company here who told me that what I explained I'm getting from WAMU with the excuses of them being too far behind to get to me right now, and then receiving that denial letter two months after I started the process is typical of them in his experience here locally. He also advised talking to my brother asap, and get the rearages current on both, and after talking to my brother, if we want him to, he will step in as my advocate while at the same time, we proceed with selling the house on our terms and not theirs.

That's where I'm at today.



More to work on right now.

You need to call HOPE 888.995.HOPE or ACORN ACORN: Home these groups do not charge for their services and are part of an alliance with the lenders and accepted by the lenders as advocates for the distressed homeowner. They have an excellent reputation for intervening for the Homeowner, I thought that WAMU had you approved for modification, just no terms yet.....

Please call one of the above non-profit organizations to assist you versus one that may want money. Also keep working with WAMU, they are very good at this and we see little of them here in the forum as they are proactive and willing to modify and work with their customers. If they have committed to modification as they told you on the phone, why are you calling advocacy agencies....?????

You really need to get the Second Current NOW and work with WAMU as they are apparently working with you from what you have said in this post.