What Gives?

[bkmilton]

I'm Back!! Trying to Refi Since '06

Since Sept. '07, I've thought twice the deal was done only to be disappointed. Right now I'm worrying again over another attempt that should have closed by the end of February. I believe this one will make the eighth attempt not to mention lost time and equity lost in cash out. In fact, Oct. 29, 2007 my home appraised for $430,000 and February 2008, perhaps 3 weeks ago, again appraised for $395,000.

The payoff on my present mortgage with First Federal is $335,700. That interest rate has been 9% for over a year. My Fico now is 724-725-744 but was in '06 and part '07 775-800. First, the agent told me his company was a lender but on the internet Mission Capital is listed as a Mortgage Brokerage. However, his company didn't accept my appraisal but rather lowered the value more. So the agent went outside of his company and found IndyMac, who after some explanation finally accepted my appraisal. Another problem I noticed in the estimated documents IndyMac sent me was the prepay penalty hadn't been determined. The rate was locked in at 5.5% for 15 days, 15th day Fri., March 7.

I'm discouraged because Minh, the agent has had the docs redrawn last Friday, saying the fees/costs weren't correct. He led me to believe we'd be going over the papers today, Monday. I didn't hear from him until almost 8:00 PM when he told me they docs just didn't get done. He will call in the morning around 10:00. I, also, wanted to have the papers looked at by someone in the biz. He really hoped I would accept his explanation and sign so he could return to Orange County having completed the transaction. After all, I have 3 days to resend. Finding someone to review the paperwork hasn't been easy to coordinate. 7/1 ARMS are complicated and I must be sure all the jargon is OK and not going to hurt me someway. Another Red Flag jumped out at me from this paperwork from IndyMac. The mortgage broker company name listed is(company name deleted)

What's happening to this business?? I'm discouraged, ready to let it go.

bkm

[mreedlaw]

Good morning: Just curious, Did you broker change jobs?

Anyway, your three days shouldn't start (if this is your primary home) until you get the correct docs - brokers will sometimes want you to sign backdated docs and they don't always like to pay themselves to extend the lock...if you feel that you have this much time invested in it, you just needn't sign until you get the corrected docs, and then take the three days to decide whether or not you want the loan.

You should be especially interested in the note (and any prepayment addendum, if applicable), the TIL (if the TIL has a box checked at the bottom stating that if you pay the loan off early, then you may have a penalty - which means, yes there is a prepay), and you would want to compare the fees on the final HUD-1 with the Good Faith Estimate that your broker presumably gave you a while back.

There should not be any wild variation between the numbers, though some costs - like escrows and interest prepaids - are subject to variation.

It sounds like you've been more than patient with this broker - please let us know how it goes, thanks - Michael

Do not give up, dump the Broker and go to a Direct Lender, NOW, the fees and costs will diminish dramatically and the product will be cheaper and more solid. My recommendations are FlagStar, GMAC and Chase....all of them are direct lenders and sell the product with no pass through, therefore no fees to deal with that are add ons to put money in the Broker pocket...just get rid of them and get with a direct lender.

Do you have a Credit Union, they are the best, the very best to not burn you they treat their Members like gold. You will go fast and very easily with any of the above or the Credit Union, no mucking around with inexperienced morons and finally they just get the job done in a heartbeat. The appraisal can be transfered, you can do that by request to the Appraiser and the idiot Broker that has the appraisal in house, they have to transfer it, you paid for it, the appraiser retypes it in the new lenders name and voila, done. The appraised value depending on where you live and the over all LTV of the loan should be good for 60 days at worst...some declining markets 30 days, lender discretion of course as the declining markets scare them to death...but the appraiser can recertify the value or retype if there has been a change, again overnight.

This is an easy process, just get rid of the moron Broker that probably does not know a 1003 from a coffee cup. Please keep us posted and oh by the way the payoff from Indy sounds weird, the Penalty is fast, easy and computer computed....are you sure that they ordered a firm payoff on the transaction and are not fooling around on the side that ordered the payoff, not Indy's side.

Keep us posted and dump the Broker...my best advice of the day.

[bkmilton]

Poppy,

How do I get hold of these lenders? My credit union is Altura. I'm not very happy with them because they wouldn't do anything about an internet charge on the Visa I had through them. Otherwise, I'd love to sit down in front of an human being and conduct business.
Then just what do you do to get rid of a broker that's been around for a month or so calling daily. They don't just disappear that easily. Poppy I'm so tired of being jerked around and time is running out on me. My nerves are shot!
Sorry to be such a baby but so much has happened to beat me down.

Thanks for any help your able to give.

bkm

Well my advice with the Broker is to tell him to Buzz Off, he is buzzing around as he is in a frenzy to make money off of you...tell him to get lost. That is life and you do not owe him a living, do you.

Go see the Credit Union, the internet fee is minor and heck they are just not going to do to you what this fellow will. The internet fee was probably less than 25.00, this Broker will get you for 1000's of dollars....

Give the Loan Officer an earful at the application at the credit union about the internet fee, it may get removed....they want the business on the loan side and may accommodate you on that fee.

I am real sold on Credit Unions, they have proven time in and time out to really be much more reasonable and good to their members than any bank or other institution out there.

[bkmilton]

Hey Poppy,

Question: Is it illegal if your refinance only allows $2000.00 in cash out but the borrower needs more; so broker pads his fees, writes an agreement to give a portion of that $$ to the borrower after Escrow closes?? The agreement isn't disclosed to the lender but kept between broker and borrower, parties involved only. I'm the one with (removed) today having issues over addtl. $$ being paid to broker by lender, $5,794.90 outside of origination fees of $3,870.00 plus $695.00 broker admin. fee, $695.00 broker underwriting fee. His $695.00 broker processing fee and origination fee seemed enough.

I spoke with the broker after leaving (removed). I listened to him speak to me as I were a child using comparisons such as buying a bottle of soda for $1 and getting another for a deal at $.80. Blah blah blah! Finally I said, " Try to understand my position. There's money here to be used, since this is a no cash out loan, your going to use the money. The money is coming out of my loan. I don't care if it is cash or higher interest as in Margin or not. It is still money that belongs to me, Not You. Now Minh, You, Victor, have so cleverly figured out how to manipulate, on paper, money into your pockets. You, Victor, and Minh, if you want this loan, need to manipulate on paper money from your pocket into my pocket. I just love Creativity! He said, " I don't want to do anything illegal!" I told him, " Illegal!! I didn't say anything about Illegal!!!" I did say that surely there's a way we could compromise.
He closed with, " Let me speak to Minh then I'll call you Monday."

The deadline on the lock of 5.5% is 3/13. Now I haven't paid my mortgage this month because it was figured into this loan. My grace period will over 3/16 so should mail by the 13th. I signed docs Wed., 3/5, my third day to rescind is Mon., midnight. Correct?

Question: If you were to negotiate this loan given the additional costs to broker, what would it be?

Thank you for your knowledge and time. Oh yes, I worried some when I checked my messages to find a call from Mr. Carr, an agent, I worked with on a refinance last summer. In fact, it was his broker that wrote an agreement to take $3,000 from broker fees after escrow/loan closed so I'd have $5,000 and change. Mr. Carr's message was call me, it's important.
I rescended on that loan. Wonder if Victor is checking my past. bkm

Illegal, hell it is worse than that...it is criminal....fraud (oh forgot now allowed to use that word) - Material misrepresentation....it is LOAN FRAUD....

Get the heck away from this deal, if is not represented in the HUD-1 then the funds under the table are LOAN FRAUD...

There is only one legal way to do it, that the Broker on the front page of the HUD-1 gives a credit to the borrower on lines 206 through 209....if they will not do that, then step away and rescind the transaction...this would be wildly irregular transaction and the lender since you were a knowing participant can file a SAR on you and that is not pleasant...

Federal Agencies become involved like the Treasury Agency and if they are really nasty, the FBI. They are now taking a really proactive position against Fraud, real proactive, these guys are morons. I would love to have the Brokerage name, let me know.

Now let me tell you why they are doing it this way...any loan that has 2000.00 or less cash out is a no cash out loan, if you get cash back at closing then pricing goes up, they do not get all that money and generally the rate is bit higher to price for the additional risk. About .50% higher for Cash Out on the Brokerage pricing side of the world. Correspondent .25%.....

So if you get more than 2000.00 out, it is no longer a no cash out transaction that changes the complextion of the transaction and makes it cash out then the underwriting model changes as the risk factors and exposures change and it is LOAN FRAUD. The underwriting models include FICO, DTI, LTV/CLTV, and other relevant issues in considering the loan....with what they are doing it is compelling the underwriter to use a lesser model for a greater risk requiring a stricter model...

The language that I would like to use here would curl your hair.....

Legally if you leave it no cash out and let the weasel take his fees it is a legal file, if you let it go through and he gives you cash out under the table it is LOAN FRAUD. The fact that you would have constructive knowledge of that is really not good, you would be party to the misrepresentation.

Your last day to rescind is Saturday the 8th of March....Sign the 5th and 3 days midnight the 3rd day - 8th of March 12:00 Midnight....mailing days are the count. Saturday is a mail delivery day...so either take the deal with no more than 2000.00 cash out and all of the ugly awful fees or rescind tomorrow, immediately and send it to them to the Broker, Lender and the Title Company all Certified Return Receipt Requested.

I want to add that I am not mad at you, I am mad at the Broker for putting this in the mix, it is horribly wrong to compromise another person for their own benefit.