I Nee advice and help Please! my story below

[Billfisher]

First of all, Hello to all of you I am new here! My story is as follows and it begins with wells fargo

Just yesterday after sending in My hardship letter and exepnses, paystubs etc...I heard back from WF, They sent me a letter telling me we have to Pay for 3 months May, June and July on the 1st of the month and cannot be a minute late! Then we would be considered for a loan mod, these are there rules, there is a ballon in there of $5000 thereabouts because we missed two months payments, They say in the letter that as long as we follow the 3 payment rule that the ballon would be aded back into whatever mod I get, what should I expect? what exactly does this mean? I was under the impression that when I first sent in the hardship letter along with everything else that they were "reviewing" me for a loan mod then? Now I get this 3 payment thing etc...I guess this is good news? Is that how you all see it? I have called everyday and they do re-aasure me that once the 3 payments are made I will get a Modification but still it seems like a gamble. The funny part is I was not going to let it get 60 days late but THEY told me not to make the payment while under review because they would just send it back...anyway, whats done is done now, I will make my three "good faith" payments and then see what happens, they assure me it will be alright, I really want your opinions on this process and if it sounds like what others have had to do.

My other question is with my second mort. with HSBC, They absolutley will not do anything and keep referring me to acorn just run around after run around...My house is now apraised at $160K I owe well's $226K AND HSBC $39K..Two years ago we filed for chapter 7 and never re-affirmed either loan so theoretically We can just stop paying the second and I feel I am almost pused to that point, I cannot in any sense see them forclosing when there isnt even enough equity to pay off the first? What advice do you all have? should I just quit paying HSBC and in about 8 months shoot for a settlement? Do you all think they would be crazy enough to forclose? Why when I am so upside down would they not work with me? makes no sense?They stand to lose alot, I cant see them paying wells $226K To try and re-coup $40K Is my thinking right? is not paying them a gamble I should take? Of course in all of this what prevents me from doing it is we acually love our home and want to stay, I have put alot of sweat into this house and My daughter has grown up here, we love the community etc..Its an emotional tie more than anything else, Lawyers are so cold...they tell us we have a golden opertunity to just "walk" Not that cut and dry for us..I am sure you have all heard this before but for me, this is the first time I ever have been in this situation and I need your advice and support and ideas on what to do.I feel like we are in a somewhat unique situation because of the personal liabilities being off our back with the BK discharge, Wells Fargo certainly seems to want to work with us so far but Not HSBC..

So if you can please explain to me what exactly wells fargo has sent me and asked me to do? does it sound good?

And what and where should I start with HSBC...Or should I just let it go without paying for awhile..Thank you all so much!

Agaim my House is worth $160 K I owe $226K To wells and $40 to HSBC...We filed chapt.7 in 2007 and did not reaffirm either loan.

Bill

[Moe Bedard]

Hi Bill,


Welcome to the forum and thank you for joining.............

It sounds as though you are receiving the Trial Modification from the Making Home Affordable modification program at which at the end of the three payments if made on time, they will reassess your financials and make sure nothing has changed before rolling to a more permanent modification.


If you report a hardship, your servicer will:


• Determine whether your loan meets the minimum eligibility criteria (owner occupied, originated on or before January 1, 2009, unpaid principal balance equal to or less than $729,750). If yes

• Ask about current income, assets and expenses as well as the specific circumstances relating to the hardship to determine if you will be unable to make your mortgage payment. (Your servicer may initially accept verbal information about your income and expenses, but eventually you will need to provide proof in the form of tax returns, pay stubs and other evidence).

• Determine if your monthly first lien mortgage payment is more than 31% (approximately 1/3) of your gross or pre-tax monthly income. If yes:

• Add past due charges (interest, taxes, insurance and costs that your lender paid to other parties on your behalf – but not late fees, those must be waived) to the loan balance.

• Determine how much of an interest rate reduction will be required to get your first mortgage payment down to a point where it is no more than 31% of your gross monthly income.

• Apply a value test to determine if the cost of the modification (including the government’s incentive payments) is less costly for the investor than not modifying the loan (loans held by borrowers who have a lot of equity or whose incomes are very low in relation to the value of their homes probably will not pass this value test). If yes:

• Put you on a trial modification for three months at the new interest rate and payment level.

• If you successfully make the payments and are current at the end of the trial period, your servicer will execute a permanent modification agreement that will lower your interest rate to a fixed rate for five years, and then capped at a low rate for the remaining life of the loan.

You will be required to sign the modification agreement and other documents and attest that all of the information you provided to your servicer was true and accurate. Misrepresenting any information required for the Home Affordable Modification is a violation of Federal Law and has serious consequences.




For answers to your questions on the second it would be best for you to consult with your bk attorney and clarify your options with that..........because the only workouts that we have seen from HSBC is a 6 month temporary workout.

[Billfisher]

Thank you! I am still a bit confused so if you can clarify a bit more, I thought I already did show a hardship by sending in the original letter and monthy expenses along with pay stubs so, they already know the incomes correct? Are you saying that after the 3 payments are made I have to do it again or I will soemhow not get the mod? If I remeber right They told me that as long as nothing changed and I made my 3 payments as per agreed, I would not have to do anything, maybe I am wrong on that? What scares me is that If I follow these rules etc and at the end they say no, what happens to that ballon of 5K? At anyrate is what I have good news? a good start? Thank you for your time!

[Billfisher]

One last thing they must already know if we fall into the 31% or we would not have got this far? they have our paystubs and know exactly what we make?

By the way, the 3 payments are the exact amount we pay monthly anyway? I just dont get this at all, sorry for being so ignorant but it feels like they are dangling candy in front of a baby and then pulling it away with the real fear of that ballon payment even if I make the payments as arrainged? Somehow I feel more threatened now than I did yesterday, I though this was a bit of hope for us, It doesnt seem fair to make us go though this and then at end of the three months possibly say no , I mean they should atleast not make us have to come up with that ballon? I would have never ever done this to my family if I was aware of a risk like that, The bank acually told me not to send a payment in for April and use it to catch up on the other bills we were behind so we did, In a lousy 8 weeks now look what we have done to ourselves...I have no other option now but to hope and pray they see me though this...Thank you once again for answering me, say a prayer also, this is not a game but somehow I know feel on there part its a bit of carrot and stick..

Peace

[Billfisher]

When you say if "Nothing has changed" does that mean just make my 3 payments and then just wait? There should be nothing changing in three months what we sent in already (meaning paystubs) is what it is! my wife has a regular pay as do i so it should stay stutus quo? I am opolojizing for asking so many questions I just dont know anything here, so again, dont they already know by looking at that weather or not we qualify? would they waste there time like this if they already knew ?

[Moe Bedard]

Alot can change in three months..........some lose jobs, some use their credit cards creating more of an expense deficit.......this has an effect on a modification.......... so they will just be verifying that your financials or expenses have not changed.



However...................if the trial modification that you received is the exact same payments as you have been making all along and you were not in default.............then that wouldn't be the trial modification for the Making Home Affordable plan............and you would need to contact Wells and ask why you were not put on the payment plan that goes with this program............which is supposed to be at the reduced interest rate and reduced payment level for the three months...........

[Billfisher]

No, I was 30 days late when I originally sent in the hardship asking for a mod, during that time I missed the April payment also putting me 60 days, technically I am not at 60 days until the 23rd of April but thats neither here nor there...I will put in this post exactly what my letter says and maybe you can deciper more about whats going on here..

Quote:

Re. Loan Number #xxxx-xxxxxxx

"Thank you for contacting us regarding your financial hardship on the loan mentioned above. Our goal is simple. We want to ensure that you have every opertunity to retain your home. Based on our telephone conversations and the financial information you provided, we would like to offer you a special forbearence plan.

Currently your loan is due for 2 installments from march 1st to April 1st 2009. As Agreed, you have promised to pay the amounts shown by the dates indicated. Also enclosed are the terms and conditions of this forbearence. Please sign the enclosed agrement and return it with your first payment. This is not a waiver of the accrued or future payments that become due, but a way to resolve your hardship.Any payments received will be applied to the delinquent payments on the loan." See condition sheet attached"


Ok thats part one...Now the condition sheet...it looks just as I am writing it.


" 1) Currently your loan is due for two installments. The indebtedness of the referenced loan is in default and in consideration of extending forbearence for a period of time, it is nessasary that you indicate your understanding and acceptance of the terms laid forth buy signing the agreement and returning promptly"

2) Step one: Payments must be made strickly in accordance with the enclosed payment schedule and conditions, this plan will take care of some of your delinquency. This plan is an aggrement to to temporailly accept reduced payments-OR- maintain regular payments during the plan specified below. Please note the final delinquet ballon payment will be added back into the loan balance if approved for Loan Modification.

3) Step 3- Your Loan will be Modified, Unless your income or financial situation cahnges. This will/may satisfy the remaining past due amount on your loan by changing one or more of the terms of your loan.

4) The lender is under no obligation to enter into any further agrements, and this forbearence shall not constitute a waiver of strick loan performance in the future.

All of the provisions of the note and security instrumant, exept as herein provided, shall remain in full effect, any breach of any provision in this agrement or non-compliance with this aggrement shal render the forebearence null and void, and at the option of the lender without further notice to you may terminate this agrement. and then at our option may move ahead with whatever remedy is nessasary to collect on the note up to and including Forecloser.

5) Each payment must be made as follows:

05/01/2009-$x,xxx.xx

06/01/2009-$x,xxx.xx

07/01/2009-$x,xxx.xx

08/01/2009-$x,xxx.xx ( See Note)Ballon

** The final delinquet ballon WILL BE ADDED BACK INTO THE LOAN UPON APROVAL FOR THE LOAN MODIFICATION**

6)There is no grace period allowed in this agrement. All payments must be received on or before the due date! If any payment is not recieved on or before the due dates above, this agreement becomes instantly null and void. and the total delinquency will become immeidiattly due! Only the total amount shown must be remitted, nothing less, please contact us if you cannot meet the requierments immediatly, By signing this agreement you herby give us consent to contact you via phone at home, cell etc for any questions we may have regarding your loan modification, this includes text messages.

[Billfisher]

I hope this helps you understand better because I typed litterely word for word what I was snet exact as it is..lol...But maybe this will help other also, as you can see they talk a few times about modifying etc...anyway thats everything I have maybe you can gleen more now after reading it and give me a better handle on why the payments are exact as normal...THANK YOU!

[Billfisher]

Originally Posted by *** Damiano

Alot can change in three months..........some lose jobs, some use their credit cards creating more of an expense deficit.......this has an effect on a modification.......... so they will just be verifying that your financials or expenses have not changed.



However...................if the trial modification that you received is the exact same payments as you have been making all along and you were not in default.............then that wouldn't be the trial modification for the Making Home Affordable plan............and you would need to contact Wells and ask why you were not put on the payment plan that goes with this program............which is supposed to be at the reduced interest rate and reduced payment level for the three months...........

After reading what you wrote I jumped right on the phone to ask about this, They told me the reason is because my loan is FHA and not fannie or freddie so the investors do it a bit different, they did re-iterate that as long as I do what was asked I will be ok...I also have done some digging and why in the world cant I just get a "partial claim" to get me back current? I mean thats what FHA says they do for people? is that a viable option? Seems fairly easy to do ?

[Moe Bedard]

I suspected something was off when you said the the forbearance was the same payment as your original loan................with FHA there are different programs and the MHA program doesn't apply............but you should have the opportunity to get a partial claim to catch the past due payments up............


For an FHA-insured loan:

Your lender has to follow FHA servicing guidelines and regulations for FHA-insured loans. If your lender is not cooperative, contact:

FHA's National Servicing Center
1(888) 297-8685
hsg-lossmit@hud.gov

[Billfisher]

Why does FHA want you to be 4 months late to give a partial claim? I am only two months late....Is there any reason beyond not being able to afford the payments that they would deny a partial claim? Just prepairing for all possibilities, My letter clearly states a "Loan Mod" so we will see what happens, maybe they consider a partial claim a home mod?