Short Sale Tips - Loan Modification Forum

Moe Bedard · 08-17-2008, 10:32 AM

Short Sale Tip #1

The Hardship

Like a loan modification, a hardship must be taking place in order for your lender or servicer to grant or accept a short sale. It's important to remember a lender "usually" will not even discuss a short sale until the homeowner has fallen behind on payments right around 90 days. The lender must be convinced taking a smaller loss now is better than a bigger loss later. To make that case, start with a letter written by the seller giving an overview of the seller's desperate situation.

The lender must recognize the seller's inability to pay the loan, immediately and in the future, and that the situation is irreversible. The seller should supply as much evidence and documentation as possible, such as divorce papers, evidence of job loss, delinquent accounts, utility shutoff notices, car repossession paperwork, last two years tax returns, recent pay stubs and recent bank statements. If the lender thinks the seller has money or assets stashed away, it will never go along with a short sale.

You can view example hardship letters here.

Short sale Tip #2

Get organized:

Buyers must be organized and present a clean offer, make sure that you have your financial statement or lender letter ready to submit with the offer. Also be prepared to buy a property that is being sold as is without any credits for repairs or fix-up. The bank or lender won't approve the Short Sale if it is too far below the market value of the house and they will do their own BPO (Broker Price Opinion) and/or appraisal before accepting or countering an offer. Remember that a bank may not accept even a full-price offer because they don't educate the seller on how to price the property or what it is that they are looking to net.

Since Short sale properties are most likely being sold as is, the buyers should make the offer contingent on the findings of a home inspection. Sellers are required to disclose material defects that they are aware of, but by this point the owners have stopped making their payments and have no incentive to do anything to the house because they'll make nothing on the sale.

Short Sale Tip #3

The Success of The Short Sale Lies With a Great Real Estate Agent

Some real estate agents are well versed in and only work with Short Sales. They learn the ins and out of working with the lenders loss mitigation departments, and getting approval from them. The process is similar with every transaction, but each of the lenders have different reps behind the desks making decisions. Even more complicated is that each bank has different departments. For a Short Sale the two departments that you would be working with the most would be the legal department and the loss mitigation department for the short sale process and these two departments seemingly don't work in conjuction with each other.

From the sellers standpoint, you need a real estate agent who specializes in Short Sales to make sure you are as timely and effective as possible with the lender. Also you would need a real estate agent that is a very good negotiator and one that could guide you through the process with the documents required to submit to the lender along with both the listing contract and the purchase contract.

From the buyers standpoint, you need an agent who specializes in Short Sales to guide you to the better deals and to make sense of the long process of acceptance. Also just as the seller needs an agent that is a very good negotiator, so would you. For buyers, short sale transactions can be a roller coaster ride. They need to have patience because the process is so long. Even when the homeowner and the buyer settle on a sales price, the lender still has to approve it and the process could take anywhere from 30-90 days, sometimes longer if there is a second lien holder involved.

felixalynn · 09-06-2008, 08:48 AM

I have a couple of questions regarding short sale.
Firstly, we are not deliquent on our home payments...yet!
Do we have to be before considering fshort sale.

Secondly, up until June my husband was making very good money (over and above his pension that he gets now)..if the short sale package asks for last 2 years of income tax and last 6 months of bank statements he is concerned that the lenders would not consider a short sale. We are underwater quite a bit on our mortgage.

Our mortgage was based entirely on his monthly pension which was sufficient at the time. However, since we purchased the home in 2006 we have had a huge financial debt put on us,.. hence that is why he has been working....to cover this financial debt. He is self employed so his work comes in fits and spurts and outlook for the next several months is very gloomy.
So, I guess Im asking even though his income tax would show he made sufficient monies and we included the financial debt that we incurred after the home purchase will they consider a short sale.

We have a seasoned realtor who is willing to market the home for us.

We live in Florida....citizen is our lender...and fannie mae is listed somewhere on our documents!

Moe Bedard · 09-06-2008, 09:42 AM

felixalynn,

A short sale is considered a pre foreclosure......and most trying to obtain one are already in default and have received the NOD..........most lenders require that the house be on the market anywhere from 60-90 days before even considering one, and most have to use it as a last resort because they have been denied any other workout options by the lender, they have lost their job, or the payment has adjusted and gone throught the roof and became unaffordable. You will have to submit a short sale package with your financials and see if the investor will consider that option...........if your lender is available today, call and see if they can get that out to you as that will be your first step along with getting the house on the market.....

jean57 · 09-08-2008, 06:15 AM

I am brand new to this forum and have a question about a short sale. I have been approached by a real estate broker that claims to have an investor who is buying up short sale homes. The broker claims that this investor will put together all the paperwork necessary to get approval for the short sale. This investor only writes deals with Citibank and has guaranteed that they will get a buyer for our house. We do not want to lose our home so he suggested we use a relative with a fico better than 680 to qualify and then buy the home. This lender is also providing $10k as a down payment and the buyer will incur no fees. This sounds like a scam and I wanted to know what questions and guarantees I should get before signing any documents.

pattona · 09-08-2008, 08:27 AM

I think you are right to be careful. I was turned down for a short sale of my deceased mother's condo because the bank will not sell to a related party, even if the borrower is deceased and there are no other assets. I believe this is a FNMA rule and I wouldn't be surprised if most banks follow it. You need to check with your bank to find out whether they will allow sales to a related party.

Also, as *** says, usually they want to see the home listed for 60 to 90 days and for the full amount of the loan balance(s). In my situation that would have been for $750k or over $300k above the last sale in the complex!

On the one hand I see where they are coming from but on the other hand they are going to do a BPO to determine price anyway. You would think they would be relieved that they don't have to pay commissions and other closing costs but it doesn't seem to work that way.

Also, even if you do find a friend or family member willing to buy the property, what is the plan? Are you going to continue to live in it? What position are you putting your friend/relative with respect to their credit and debt ratio?

jean57 · 09-08-2008, 09:53 AM

Thanks for the response. I am meeting with the broker today and will be asking questions regarding your suggestions. Will be back after that meeting.

Moe Bedard · 09-08-2008, 10:35 AM

jean,

What they are proposing to you is a scam and also considered fraudulent......and also please, please, please, look for another agent that is not pressing you to be a party to fraud to list your property...........and the FBI is looking into it.........
The FBI defines mortgage fraud as "any material misstatement, misrepresentation or omission relied upon by an underwriter or lender to fund, purchase or insure a loan."

here is an excerpt of an article that was written on this very practice...........

Phony 'Short Sales'

In a scam on lenders, homeowners have been lowering their mortgage payments by arranging fraudulent "short sales" at prices less than what they owe their lenders. The buyer whom the seller chooses, who may be a relative or friend or a "straw buyer" paid for his service, agrees to transfer ownership back to the seller, who winds up with a smaller mortgage on the same house and never has to move.

In such a short sale, the seller commits fraud by having a side arrangement with the buyer that he does not disclose to the lender. When lenders accept short sales, it is because they think the price is the best they can get. Mortgage industry officials say lenders would reject a sale in which there was a special relationship between seller and buyer on the grounds that the selling price most likely was not the best one available.

A borrower who takes part in one of these scams can be sued by the lender or criminally prosecuted. The real estate agent involved can be prosecuted and lose his or her license.

And a lender who discovers he has been bamboozled into approving a loan with phony information can require the agent or borrower to pay off the mortgage immediately

faith · 09-08-2008, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jean57

Thanks for the response. I am meeting with the broker today and will be asking questions regarding your suggestions. Will be back after that meeting.

Jean,
I hope you listen to what *** says, remember, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is.

Just stop and think no one will give anyone for $10,000 free and clear, there is something fishy about it. Don't even meet him or answer his phone call.

You can get a good real estate agent who knows about Short Sale by checking the bbb search and just put the zip code in your area. Call first your lender and ask them their requirements and process about Short Sale.

There's a lot of crooks there who are using the homeowners frustration and confusion into a Cash Machine. Beware, this person is a Scam. The Lenders has their own policies and procedures about Short Sale. First of all, you have to put your house in the market fot at least 60- 90 days, you give authorization to your lender to talk to your agent. You have to have a buyer that makes an offer without which NO LENDER will accept any Short Sale. It took me 2 listings, 7 buyers that backout and 10 months for Countrywide to approve my short sale and another 1 month and 10 days to close the escrow.

So, please, listen to *** and if your heart says there's something wrong with this guy, follow your heart, there's three of us now that's telling you to be careful, go the other route, don't go this route. May God gives you discernment and the courage to say No and make the right decision.

God bless you and take care.

Faith,

Worried · 10-10-2008, 04:11 PM

Hello Loansafe.org,

You are so great. My lender is asking me to do a short sale on my rental. My questions are:

1) Will I be responsible for the difference in the amount I owe and the short sale amount?

2) How will a short sale appear on my credit report.

My lender is Washington Mutual. Whoo hoo!

faith · 10-10-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worried

Hello Loansafe.org,

You are so great. My lender is asking me to do a short sale on my rental. My questions are:

1) Will I be responsible for the difference in the amount I owe and the short sale amount?

2) How will a short sale appear on my credit report.

My lender is Washington Mutual. Whoo hoo!

Hi, worried, welcome to this forum.

I find this thread from Moe very helpful to answer your questions:

The affect on your credit from foreclosures, short sales and deed-in-lieus

It will really help you, thanks for Moe, *** and Prof Shays and Andrew

Faith

Dave_R · 10-01-2009, 09:54 AM

Hi all. We have a real estate agent working on our hosue(10 months behind) sale as short sale. He is doing the paper work to present to the bank. Do I have to call and tell the bank, that I have listed the house for the sale. Or just let the real estate agent deal with it. Thank you.

CHensley · 10-01-2009, 06:55 PM

Moe,

We, like many, are in the boat where our incomes have been greatly impacted and we are seeking some help to protect the last vestiges of cash/safety net our family has accumulated.

I'll be brief with the facts. We purchased in Orlando, FL during 2007 for $515K and put down enough cash to result in a note of $380k. We have paid and are paying timely but our incomes have changed. We have tried to refinance but the home appraises for $220k or worse, comparable in the neighborhood result in a value of $200k.

I am going to proceed down the path of hopefully a loan modification but a short sale could allow us to stay in the home. I have a family member who would buy the home and then rent it to us i.e. they would obviously have to get in at the right price. I've been reading the post and it seems obvious that collusion could be construed but if they pay market price, which would make the note ~50% or more (or our new rent) of what our current mortgage payment. We are not people to scurry from our debts but with $50k in safety cash, which would get eaten up pretty quickly, we are about to go "on a burn" given our new incomes.

Any corporation would protect their assets....I am trying to protect ours. We have been abysmally affected by the foreclosures/walk aways in our neighborhood (~50%). Would you have any advice....to effectively negotiate a short sale w/Citi to my family or how to loan mod this so it fits with our income.

Not desperate yet...trying to be preemptive....this could get bad if we need to relocate to for better jobs....Please advise...

felixalynn · 10-31-2009, 07:15 AM

Hi:
Could someone give me the direct telephone number to Chase. We faxed documents the other day regarding the prep for short sale. There are 2 interested buyers, but not concrete offer yet. Anyway, we don't have a direct number to the department...and we are not sure what department. Chase rep told us what to submit so we did...but as you know they lose most documents. We are well aware of the time length and the "lost" document scenario. We tried a remod with Chase and because we had the house for sale, but willing to stay if they remod they declined our application, so now we are trying a short sale. The house has been on the market for almost a year with NO offers.....
So thank you for any help you can give us....we are not late with any payments yet, but its coming!.....Felixalynn

Chris Sorensen · 10-31-2009, 12:22 PM

I e-mailed one of the managers today. Hopefully Monday I'll reveive an answer and I will post.

Chris Sorensen
Founder, USA HELP, Inc
www.freehomeownershiphelp.org

08-17-2008, 10:32 AM	#1 (permalink)
Moe Bedard Founder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southern California Posts: 16,605	Short Sale Tips Short Sale Tip #1 The Hardship Like a loan modification, a hardship must be taking place in order for your lender or servicer to grant or accept a short sale. It's important to remember a lender "usually" will not even discuss a short sale until the homeowner has fallen behind on payments right around 90 days. The lender must be convinced taking a smaller loss now is better than a bigger loss later. To make that case, start with a letter written by the seller giving an overview of the seller's desperate situation. The lender must recognize the seller's inability to pay the loan, immediately and in the future, and that the situation is irreversible. The seller should supply as much evidence and documentation as possible, such as divorce papers, evidence of job loss, delinquent accounts, utility shutoff notices, car repossession paperwork, last two years tax returns, recent pay stubs and recent bank statements. If the lender thinks the seller has money or assets stashed away, it will never go along with a short sale. You can view example hardship letters here. Short sale Tip #2 Get organized: Buyers must be organized and present a clean offer, make sure that you have your financial statement or lender letter ready to submit with the offer. Also be prepared to buy a property that is being sold as is without any credits for repairs or fix-up. The bank or lender won't approve the Short Sale if it is too far below the market value of the house and they will do their own BPO (Broker Price Opinion) and/or appraisal before accepting or countering an offer. Remember that a bank may not accept even a full-price offer because they don't educate the seller on how to price the property or what it is that they are looking to net. Since Short sale properties are most likely being sold as is, the buyers should make the offer contingent on the findings of a home inspection. Sellers are required to disclose material defects that they are aware of, but by this point the owners have stopped making their payments and have no incentive to do anything to the house because they'll make nothing on the sale. Short Sale Tip #3 The Success of The Short Sale Lies With a Great Real Estate Agent Some real estate agents are well versed in and only work with Short Sales. They learn the ins and out of working with the lenders loss mitigation departments, and getting approval from them. The process is similar with every transaction, but each of the lenders have different reps behind the desks making decisions. Even more complicated is that each bank has different departments. For a Short Sale the two departments that you would be working with the most would be the legal department and the loss mitigation department for the short sale process and these two departments seemingly don't work in conjuction with each other. From the sellers standpoint, you need a real estate agent who specializes in Short Sales to make sure you are as timely and effective as possible with the lender. Also you would need a real estate agent that is a very good negotiator and one that could guide you through the process with the documents required to submit to the lender along with both the listing contract and the purchase contract. From the buyers standpoint, you need an agent who specializes in Short Sales to guide you to the better deals and to make sense of the long process of acceptance. Also just as the seller needs an agent that is a very good negotiator, so would you. For buyers, short sale transactions can be a roller coaster ride. They need to have patience because the process is so long. Even when the homeowner and the buyer settle on a sales price, the lender still has to approve it and the process could take anywhere from 30-90 days, sometimes longer if there is a second lien holder involved. __________________ Moe Bedard Founder LoanSafe.org "America's #1 Home Loan Forum" LoanWorkout.org "America's # Loan Modification Blog" Get My FREE Loan Modification E-Book \| Please donate to LoanSafe.org \| Loan Modification Training For Attorneys \| Rate Your Mortgage Servicer The comments by me and the materials available at this web site are for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. Most of the information you find here is easily available on the internet. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. The opinions expressed at or through this site are the opinions of the individual author and may not reflect the opinions of the firm or any individual attorney. Please Read our Privacy Policy and Legal Disclaimer Here.

09-06-2008, 08:48 AM	#2 (permalink)
felixalynn Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 10	Re: Short Sale Tips I have a couple of questions regarding short sale. Firstly, we are not deliquent on our home payments...yet! Do we have to be before considering fshort sale. Secondly, up until June my husband was making very good money (over and above his pension that he gets now)..if the short sale package asks for last 2 years of income tax and last 6 months of bank statements he is concerned that the lenders would not consider a short sale. We are underwater quite a bit on our mortgage. Our mortgage was based entirely on his monthly pension which was sufficient at the time. However, since we purchased the home in 2006 we have had a huge financial debt put on us,.. hence that is why he has been working....to cover this financial debt. He is self employed so his work comes in fits and spurts and outlook for the next several months is very gloomy. So, I guess Im asking even though his income tax would show he made sufficient monies and we included the financial debt that we incurred after the home purchase will they consider a short sale. We have a seasoned realtor who is willing to market the home for us. We live in Florida....citizen is our lender...and fannie mae is listed somewhere on our documents!

09-06-2008, 09:42 AM	#3 (permalink)
Moe Bedard Founder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southern California Posts: 16,605	Re: Short Sale Tips felixalynn, A short sale is considered a pre foreclosure......and most trying to obtain one are already in default and have received the NOD..........most lenders require that the house be on the market anywhere from 60-90 days before even considering one, and most have to use it as a last resort because they have been denied any other workout options by the lender, they have lost their job, or the payment has adjusted and gone throught the roof and became unaffordable. You will have to submit a short sale package with your financials and see if the investor will consider that option...........if your lender is available today, call and see if they can get that out to you as that will be your first step along with getting the house on the market..... __________________ Moe Bedard Founder LoanSafe.org "America's #1 Home Loan Forum" LoanWorkout.org "America's # Loan Modification Blog" Get My FREE Loan Modification E-Book \| Please donate to LoanSafe.org \| Loan Modification Training For Attorneys \| Rate Your Mortgage Servicer The comments by me and the materials available at this web site are for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. Most of the information you find here is easily available on the internet. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. The opinions expressed at or through this site are the opinions of the individual author and may not reflect the opinions of the firm or any individual attorney. Please Read our Privacy Policy and Legal Disclaimer Here.

09-08-2008, 06:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
jean57 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2	Re: Short Sale Tips I am brand new to this forum and have a question about a short sale. I have been approached by a real estate broker that claims to have an investor who is buying up short sale homes. The broker claims that this investor will put together all the paperwork necessary to get approval for the short sale. This investor only writes deals with Citibank and has guaranteed that they will get a buyer for our house. We do not want to lose our home so he suggested we use a relative with a fico better than 680 to qualify and then buy the home. This lender is also providing $10k as a down payment and the buyer will incur no fees. This sounds like a scam and I wanted to know what questions and guarantees I should get before signing any documents.

09-08-2008, 08:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
pattona Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 92	Re: Short Sale Tips I think you are right to be careful. I was turned down for a short sale of my deceased mother's condo because the bank will not sell to a related party, even if the borrower is deceased and there are no other assets. I believe this is a FNMA rule and I wouldn't be surprised if most banks follow it. You need to check with your bank to find out whether they will allow sales to a related party. Also, as *** says, usually they want to see the home listed for 60 to 90 days and for the full amount of the loan balance(s). In my situation that would have been for $750k or over $300k above the last sale in the complex! On the one hand I see where they are coming from but on the other hand they are going to do a BPO to determine price anyway. You would think they would be relieved that they don't have to pay commissions and other closing costs but it doesn't seem to work that way. Also, even if you do find a friend or family member willing to buy the property, what is the plan? Are you going to continue to live in it? What position are you putting your friend/relative with respect to their credit and debt ratio?

09-08-2008, 09:53 AM	#6 (permalink)
jean57 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2	Re: Short Sale Tips Thanks for the response. I am meeting with the broker today and will be asking questions regarding your suggestions. Will be back after that meeting.

09-08-2008, 10:35 AM	#7 (permalink)
Moe Bedard Founder Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Southern California Posts: 16,605	Re: Short Sale Tips jean, What they are proposing to you is a scam and also considered fraudulent......and also please, please, please, look for another agent that is not pressing you to be a party to fraud to list your property...........and the FBI is looking into it......... The FBI defines mortgage fraud as "any material misstatement, misrepresentation or omission relied upon by an underwriter or lender to fund, purchase or insure a loan." here is an excerpt of an article that was written on this very practice........... Phony 'Short Sales' In a scam on lenders, homeowners have been lowering their mortgage payments by arranging fraudulent "short sales" at prices less than what they owe their lenders. The buyer whom the seller chooses, who may be a relative or friend or a "straw buyer" paid for his service, agrees to transfer ownership back to the seller, who winds up with a smaller mortgage on the same house and never has to move. In such a short sale, the seller commits fraud by having a side arrangement with the buyer that he does not disclose to the lender. When lenders accept short sales, it is because they think the price is the best they can get. Mortgage industry officials say lenders would reject a sale in which there was a special relationship between seller and buyer on the grounds that the selling price most likely was not the best one available. A borrower who takes part in one of these scams can be sued by the lender or criminally prosecuted. The real estate agent involved can be prosecuted and lose his or her license. And a lender who discovers he has been bamboozled into approving a loan with phony information can require the agent or borrower to pay off the mortgage immediately __________________ Moe Bedard Founder LoanSafe.org "America's #1 Home Loan Forum" LoanWorkout.org "America's # Loan Modification Blog" Get My FREE Loan Modification E-Book \| Please donate to LoanSafe.org \| Loan Modification Training For Attorneys \| Rate Your Mortgage Servicer The comments by me and the materials available at this web site are for informational purposes only and not for the purpose of providing legal advice. Most of the information you find here is easily available on the internet. You should contact your attorney to obtain advice with respect to any particular issue or problem. The opinions expressed at or through this site are the opinions of the individual author and may not reflect the opinions of the firm or any individual attorney. Please Read our Privacy Policy and Legal Disclaimer Here.

10-10-2008, 04:11 PM	#9 (permalink)
Worried Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 31	Re: Short Sale Tips Hello Loansafe.org, You are so great. My lender is asking me to do a short sale on my rental. My questions are: 1) Will I be responsible for the difference in the amount I owe and the short sale amount? 2) How will a short sale appear on my credit report. My lender is Washington Mutual. Whoo hoo!

10-01-2009, 09:54 AM	#11 (permalink)
Dave_R Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 13	Re: Short Sale Tips Hi all. We have a real estate agent working on our hosue(10 months behind) sale as short sale. He is doing the paper work to present to the bank. Do I have to call and tell the bank, that I have listed the house for the sale. Or just let the real estate agent deal with it. Thank you.

10-01-2009, 06:55 PM	#12 (permalink)
CHensley Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1	Re: Short Sale Tips Moe, We, like many, are in the boat where our incomes have been greatly impacted and we are seeking some help to protect the last vestiges of cash/safety net our family has accumulated. I'll be brief with the facts. We purchased in Orlando, FL during 2007 for $515K and put down enough cash to result in a note of $380k. We have paid and are paying timely but our incomes have changed. We have tried to refinance but the home appraises for $220k or worse, comparable in the neighborhood result in a value of $200k. I am going to proceed down the path of hopefully a loan modification but a short sale could allow us to stay in the home. I have a family member who would buy the home and then rent it to us i.e. they would obviously have to get in at the right price. I've been reading the post and it seems obvious that collusion could be construed but if they pay market price, which would make the note ~50% or more (or our new rent) of what our current mortgage payment. We are not people to scurry from our debts but with $50k in safety cash, which would get eaten up pretty quickly, we are about to go "on a burn" given our new incomes. Any corporation would protect their assets....I am trying to protect ours. We have been abysmally affected by the foreclosures/walk aways in our neighborhood (~50%). Would you have any advice....to effectively negotiate a short sale w/Citi to my family or how to loan mod this so it fits with our income. Not desperate yet...trying to be preemptive....this could get bad if we need to relocate to for better jobs....Please advise...

10-31-2009, 07:15 AM	#13 (permalink)
felixalynn Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 10	Re: Short Sale Tips Hi: Could someone give me the direct telephone number to Chase. We faxed documents the other day regarding the prep for short sale. There are 2 interested buyers, but not concrete offer yet. Anyway, we don't have a direct number to the department...and we are not sure what department. Chase rep told us what to submit so we did...but as you know they lose most documents. We are well aware of the time length and the "lost" document scenario. We tried a remod with Chase and because we had the house for sale, but willing to stay if they remod they declined our application, so now we are trying a short sale. The house has been on the market for almost a year with NO offers..... So thank you for any help you can give us....we are not late with any payments yet, but its coming!.....Felixalynn

10-31-2009, 12:22 PM	#14 (permalink)
Chris Sorensen Homeowner Guide Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 5	Re: Short Sale Tips I e-mailed one of the managers today. Hopefully Monday I'll reveive an answer and I will post. Chris Sorensen Founder, USA HELP, Inc www.freehomeownershiphelp.org

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