Help! My 3rd Party Negotiator is Leaving Us Hanging Out to Dry!

[pookey]

I can barely see to type this as I hold back the tears and nausea...I paid a 3rd party negotiator (someone I thought I knew) to do our 2 rental property short sales. He said his partner had connections to high level negotiators at the banks and they could cut through a lot of red tape. And they are both attorneys.

We have a really good income, but 2 kids in college and we had been living off of credit cards in order to carry the negative cash flow on these houses while we waited for the correction to be over and values start to go up again. Then the whole bank/finance collapse happened and we're so far under water there's no chance we'll ever be able to sell in the forseeable future and we're basically insolvent.

So now, after having contracts on both houses since late July I find out one Short Sale was just canceled for "insufficient offer" and the other doesn't even have a BOP done on it yet. It was scheduled in early September, but no one followed up on it and it was never done/received. And the HELOC on that one seems to still be in the collections department, not any kind of workout department and they say we're a month away from them writing off the loan killing my chance of a short sale.

So in some "what's going on" type of e-mails between me and the real estate agent with the 3rd party negotiator she and I get these e-mails from my so-called friend:

To the real estate agent he wrote:
This is what I mean... are you kidding me with all of these emails Cxxxx?

I spent all day yesterday and half of today managing Mxxx’s expectations, defending our work, and providing pages upon pages of updates, instructions, etc…. and now art 8:30pm,once I am finally done addressing her nonsense, I have two voicemails and six emails from you, including your schedule, a note that you spent a whopping 20 minutes on hold trying to schedule the BPO, and another request for status?

Did anyone read my emails, or am I wasting my f’in time here? If anyone wants to step up and contribute anything to this cause aside from an opinion, an asshole, and a string of senseless emails, please let me know? And just in case my prior dozen emails were ignored or too hard to read, let me make myself crystal f’in clear to the both of you once again… I am not scheduling this BPO, period! It is not my job, nor my staff’s job, to perform these tasks, so you two ladies will have to put your little heads together and decide whose time is more valuable… and if it take 20 minutes or 20 f’in days, so be it!

I do not want to hear from either of you until Friday, unless the god damned houses have burned down or you have decided to terminate us… am I clear on that?

Warmest regards,


And to me he wrote:
They have the all of the info that they requested from us… If they gave you a new list of items, then send it to Jxxxx and he will send it in. They are requesting stuff from you because they are trying to trap you… they alluded to an “Advantage Checking” account that they believe you did not disclose, and whether it exists or not, they are convinced that you are hiding money somewhere… that is the reason for the games, and is not a reflection of our failure to perform our duties. Fyi, if there is the existence of such an account, we need to know about it? Fraud is something Jxxxx and I take very seriously, and if we have reason to believe you, or any client, is jeopardizing our ethical duties to be truthful, we will terminate our representation immediately.

Warmest regards,


A short time ago someone that was also working with him contacted me through another forum (because she knew I know him) and this is what she sent me that he had written to her:

“Bxxxx, you are an ungrateful, manipulative
> sorry excuse for a human being! It is people like you that got this
> country into this mess, and now that you have reminded me that I no
> longer represent you, I am free to tell you that I hope you lose
> everything! Jxxx, she’s all yours… I’ll let you decide whether you
> want to work for free, invite the ***** to Christmas dinner, etc?
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T” and again “I am sure that I am not the
> first person you have tried to manipulate and cheat, and I have 100+
> clients that will gladly testify that I am an honest and capable
> advocate. Do what you feel you need to do Bxxxx, but make sure you
> have your affairs in order, because throwing stones when you live in a
> glass house can be dangerous, and I will not hesitate to sue you for
> malicious prosecution and defamation of character.”

I feel like I have no choice but to try to pick up the pieces, but it's so late in the process and I really don't know how the game is played. Especially if what he's saying is that they think I may be hiding assets/money (I'M NOT!) I feel like he's practically accusing me of it.


BTW, before he got into this new endeavor he was a Mortgage Broker and was the one that got me into these mortgages. (One is an Option ARM with negative amortization and he knew I couldn't afford anything but the minimum payment.)


ANY comments, ideas, support or suggestions would be so appreciated! We've had perfect credit for 40 years and just making the decision to do these Short Sales was a long and painful one.

[Enough Already]

Pookey,

I don't even know what to say to this one. It looks like you're dealing with a real class act there.

If I were in your shoes I'd stop trying to work with the 3rd party, and I would start contacting the mortgage company directly. See what you can work out, but don't spend anymore time with this 3rd party company. They don't appear to be helping you at all. Either way you haven't got much to lose in that regard.

Good luck.

[worrywart1]

I concur with Enough Already. In regards to getting the BPO, you may want to ask the mortgage company if they have already done their own appraisal. They may be able to use that (I have heard that sometimes the mortgage company has their own rep do these to make sure the real estate agent who lists the property is referencing the comp's correctly, etc).
I would talk to family and ask them if they know of any Real Estate Agents who are experienced in short sales.
I know it's hard possibility that you might be losing your house but I would try to refocus and look at the big picture.
As long as you have your health and your family, that is all that matters. I am going through the forclosure process myself and it has been a wicked ordeal.
We have used counslors, negotiators to no avail.
Even though I haven't found success yet, I am still hoping for a modification. If it doesnt happen, it's going to hurt, but we'll be ok.
What I do KNOW, is that you are the best person to represent your interests.
This guy that you used showed his true colors. I would terminate my relationship with him if possible.
Contact the loss mitigation department and tell them what happened. Ask them if you can get a new agent to represent your party or if they will accept an appraisal from an appraiser. That's basically all a BPO is anyway.

[BobandArlyn]

Pookey, I am very, very sorry you are going through this after all this time. NOW, what to do?

What state do you reside in? The State of California has a mortgage modification fraud site. Other states may have as well; go online and read what you can find and take the steps to report them. They were probably scamming you the whole way! I was told by my Servicer that 3rd party negotiators (attorneys and brokers) have NO SPECIAL PRIVILEGES with the servicers. They have to jump through the hoops we do. Please tell me it's not a Stockton, CA group who was 'helping' you?

I'm not aware of what a BPO is what it means for you. Others on this site will help with more information of where to go now. I'm guessing NACA.

Arlyn

[pookey]

Originally Posted by BobandArlyn

Pookey, I am very, very sorry you are going through this after all this time. NOW, what to do?

What state do you reside in? The State of California has a mortgage modification fraud site. Other states may have as well; go online and read what you can find and take the steps to report them. They were probably scamming you the whole way! I was told by my Servicer that 3rd party negotiators (attorneys and brokers) have NO SPECIAL PRIVILEGES with the servicers. They have to jump through the hoops we do. Please tell me it's not a Stockton, CA group who was 'helping' you?

I'm not aware of what a BPO is what it means for you. Others on this site will help with more information of where to go now. I'm guessing NACA.

Arlyn

Lessons learned the hard way...we are in CA so I will look for the fraud site you mentioned.

Thank you for the feedback. Just talking with others who understand helps to keep me calm!

Mary

[pookey]

Originally Posted by Enough Already

Pookey,

I don't even know what to say to this one. It looks like you're dealing with a real class act there.

If I were in your shoes I'd stop trying to work with the 3rd party, and I would start contacting the mortgage company directly. See what you can work out, but don't spend anymore time with this 3rd party company. They don't appear to be helping you at all. Either way you haven't got much to lose in that regard.

Good luck.

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I'm trying to figure out if the pieces can be picked up and put back together in a very, very short time period. I would have been better off attempting this by myself. Now I'm out $4,000 and may be worse off than I was before.

But having people who understand to talk with helps with the anxiety.

Mary

[pookey]

Originally Posted by worrywart1

I concur with Enough Already. In regards to getting the BPO, you may want to ask the mortgage company if they have already done their own appraisal. They may be able to use that (I have heard that sometimes the mortgage company has their own rep do these to make sure the real estate agent who lists the property is referencing the comp's correctly, etc).
I would talk to family and ask them if they know of any Real Estate Agents who are experienced in short sales.
I know it's hard possibility that you might be losing your house but I would try to refocus and look at the big picture.
As long as you have your health and your family, that is all that matters. I am going through the forclosure process myself and it has been a wicked ordeal.
We have used counslors, negotiators to no avail.
Even though I haven't found success yet, I am still hoping for a modification. If it doesnt happen, it's going to hurt, but we'll be ok.
What I do KNOW, is that you are the best person to represent your interests.
This guy that you used showed his true colors. I would terminate my relationship with him if possible.
Contact the loss mitigation department and tell them what happened. Ask them if you can get a new agent to represent your party or if they will accept an appraisal from an appraiser. That's basically all a BPO is anyway.

Thanks for your advice. I know I can have an appraisal done (on my dime) that would result in a more realistic amount but I think it will be very difficult to convince the bank that their BPO was about $250,000 too high - negotiations don't generally happen when two parties are that far apart. And since the person from the BoA President's office basically told me "they'd rather have the house" when I mentioned it could force us into foreclosure, I don't think they want to negotiate.

Appreciate the advice - I'm trying to re-group and pull myself together. Having others who understand makes a difference.

Mary

[Enough Already]

Pookey,

Since you're in CA your 1st loan is probably non-recourse. Your HELOC may be recourse, but in the event of a foreclosure it's unlikely that the bank would sue you in CA because of the state foreclosure laws.

The Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure section of this site would be a great place for you to do some research. Your best bet may be to let them foreclose.

My advice is go to the Deed in Lieu forum and search for posts by The Professor, or Professor Shays (same person). He used to post a lot on this site and always gave excellent advice and guidance especially to those in CA. In fact here's a link that will take you right to his posts and threads: Loan Modification Forum - LoanSafe.org - View Profile: The Professor

Good luck and please keep us posted.

EA

[rbolski_in_NV]

Also - talk to a bankruptcy lawyer. I understand it is not ideal, but bk protects the investment properties and the cram down will modify those loans and in the end you could keep those houses. Most bk lawyers are free consultations. Wouldn't hurt to see what they have to say.

The guy I talked to here in Reno, NV has dealt with several clients in CA. They are a large firm - Laub & Laub. Nicholus Palmer. I would recommend giving him a call.

[pookey]

Originally Posted by Enough Already

Pookey,

Since you're in CA your 1st loan is probably non-recourse. Your HELOC may be recourse, but in the event of a foreclosure it's unlikely that the bank would sue you in CA because of the state foreclosure laws.

The Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure section of this site would be a great place for you to do some research. Your best bet may be to let them foreclose.

My advice is go to the Deed in Lieu forum and search for posts by The Professor, or Professor Shays (same person). He used to post a lot on this site and always gave excellent advice and guidance especially to those in CA. In fact here's a link that will take you right to his posts and threads: Loan Modification Forum - LoanSafe.org - View Profile: The Professor

Good luck and please keep us posted.

EA

Thank you for the advice. The loans were re-financed so all are recourse loans. I'm paying for an hour of an attorney's time on Monday 11/9. My real estate agent's broker is also a lawyer, so she referred me to an attorney to talk with.

Deed in Lieu will be next to research. Will keep you posted.

Mary

[pookey]

Originally Posted by rbolski_in_NV

Also - talk to a bankruptcy lawyer. I understand it is not ideal, but bk protects the investment properties and the cram down will modify those loans and in the end you could keep those houses. Most bk lawyers are free consultations. Wouldn't hurt to see what they have to say.

The guy I talked to here in Reno, NV has dealt with several clients in CA. They are a large firm - Laub & Laub. Nicholus Palmer. I would recommend giving him a call.

According to our CPA we don't want to do a BK because we own a C-Corp that is our sole source of income and they would take our shares in it. And according to what I read about Chapter 13 BK is that we own too much secured debt to qualify ($1,010,000) so it would be Chapter 7 and we'd lose everything?? Obviously a discussion with a BK attorney is necessary and I appreciate the recommendation.

Will keep you posted. Thanks for your help!

[HopingtoFind]

Originally Posted by pookey

Thank you for the advice. The loans were re-financed so all are recourse loans. I'm paying for an hour of an attorney's time on Monday 11/9. My real estate agent's broker is also a lawyer, so she referred me to an attorney to talk with.

Deed in Lieu will be next to research. Will keep you posted.

Mary

Even though yours are recourse loans, you still protected in CA. In CA if your lender proceeds with non-judicial foreclosure... I haven't heard them do otherwise, they cannot come after you for deficiency, I am surprised your agent who is also an attorney did not inform you of this.
Your 2nd is the problem of course, because if they are not secured by the property, they will most likely charge off and sell to collection agency.

Deed in Lieu will not work in your situation because you have 2 loans. 2nd will not just release lien without any compensation.

[HopingtoFind]

Originally Posted by pookey

Thank you for the advice. The loans were re-financed so all are recourse loans. I'm paying for an hour of an attorney's time on Monday 11/9. My real estate agent's broker is also a lawyer, so she referred me to an attorney to talk with.

Deed in Lieu will be next to research. Will keep you posted.

Mary

Just noticed that it your Realtor's broker who is an attorney.... But why not just have your agent negotiate for you, most of the time it is agents who negotiate short sales anyway.
When you get to a point when lenders agree to release liens they will give you documents to sign, that is when you really need an attorney to review docs so that lender does not pursue deficiency. It should be an hour or two at most of attorney's time to review documents.

[pookey]

Originally Posted by HopingtoFind

Even though yours are recourse loans, you still protected in CA. In CA if your lender proceeds with non-judicial foreclosure... I haven't heard them do otherwise, they cannot come after you for deficiency, I am surprised your agent who is also an attorney did not inform you of this.
Your 2nd is the problem of course, because if they are not secured by the property, they will most likely charge off and sell to collection agency.

Deed in Lieu will not work in your situation because you have 2 loans. 2nd will not just release lien without any compensation.

Yes, I understand that if they pursue a non-judicial foreclosure we are OK on the 1st, but as you say we have the issue of the 2nd which would be a problem. But we have so much credit card debt that them being added to the unsecured pile may make them willing to settle for some amount rather than have us go bankrupt and wipe them out all together.

And it's not my agent, it's her broker who is an attorney. But as with most people, they don't want to give legal advice unless you are retaining them as an attorney.

Mary

[pookey]

Originally Posted by HopingtoFind

Just noticed that it your Realtor's broker who is an attorney.... But why not just have your agent negotiate for you, most of the time it is agents who negotiate short sales anyway.
When you get to a point when lenders agree to release liens they will give you documents to sign, that is when you really need an attorney to review docs so that lender does not pursue deficiency. It should be an hour or two at most of attorney's time to review documents.

Well, I was sold a bill of goods by these people who said they had connections (and I know the guy - he was renting one of the houses) and would be able to cut through the red tape; I believed him. Now we're way into the process and most of the $'s have been paid to them.

Mary

[caldwellb02]

Have you all signed the petition? Are you willing to help us take a stand?

TO THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT FROM AMERICAN HOMEOWNERS Petition

[nativelasvegan]

pookey - did I read this right, both assholes are attorneys? Please, please file an ethics complaint with the California State Bar. Their behavior is unacceptable. Registering a Complaint

A knowledgeable Realtor can definitely help you with a short sale. They would be the ones who oversee the process, ordering BPO (broker's price opinion), etc.

I would agree with the information here that you definitely need to talk to a reputable attorney. Please do also talk to a Realtor with experience in short sales.

Sorry to hear about your situation. We are here to help.

[tc4gold]

So sorry for what you are going through. managed to do all my negotiations for short sales myself and even found the buyers myself though I had realtors listing the properties. I cannot beleive what was said and texted to you. Hope you saved recordings of the calls and the emails texts. Please print everything out, send to the state attorney general, your local senator, the bar association, everyone you can think of. I would help you if I could and if you just want to talk to me about how I got mine done I will gladly call and talk to you free of charge just as someone who has been trhough it and felt what you are feeling. Sometimes it helps to speak directly instead of just going through emails. Send me your phone number to tc4gold@pacbell.net and I will call you or your realtor if you want and see if I can guide you through my own experience, you can do it yourself you don't need that jerk.