Negotiating Short Sale with Fargo

[HopingtoFind]

I have received an approval from both 1st and 2nd with Wells Fargo, it didn't come easy... submitted documents in May.

At this point I would like and negotiate credit reporting... 2nd is reporting loan as "charged off", even though they are getting $10000. I could have gotten "charged off" if I let them foreclose.

I have tried Wells Fargo executive team, but at this point hit the wall.

If anyone has a contact of high level Executive with Wells Fargo who can help, please post their info.

[Evan Bedard]

Hi hopingtofind,

Try this contact I found this here in the forum:

Short sale manager:
Luke W. Reimers- Loan Adjustment Manager (Short Sales Manager)
Direct line (515) 331-9142
E-mail is Luke.W.Reimers2@wellsfargo.com

[HopingtoFind]

Originally Posted by Evan Bedard

Hi hopingtofind,

Try this contact I found this here in the forum:

Short sale manager:
Luke W. Reimers- Loan Adjustment Manager (Short Sales Manager)
Direct line (515) 331-9142
E-mail is Luke.W.Reimers2@wellsfargo.com

Thanks. I'll try him.

[cmcgreanor]

Originally Posted by HopingtoFind

Thanks. I'll try him.

Did you speak to anyone regarding this? I got my approval on the 2nd today and it says "charge-off" But I am not sure if that is just a standard letter they send out. They are getting 6k total from me and the first both Wells Fargo loans.

[HopingtoFind]

Originally Posted by cmcgreanor

Did you speak to anyone regarding this? I got my approval on the 2nd today and it says "charge-off" But I am not sure if that is just a standard letter they send out. They are getting 6k total from me and the first both Wells Fargo loans.

Yes it was escalated to upper management but at this point they are refusing to change anything in the letter. They are saying it is a standard letter.
I'll keep trying...let us know if you get to someone who can help.

[cmcgreanor]

Originally Posted by HopingtoFind

Yes it was escalated to upper management but at this point they are refusing to change anything in the letter. They are saying it is a standard letter.
I'll keep trying...let us know if you get to someone who can help.

I called the Manager Andrew and left a voicemail I called my negotiators supervisor and left a message, I called my negotiator and left a message. I have not heard from any of them. If they do not change the letter I want a 1 line letter that says "the account will not be reported as a charge-off to the credit bureaus to whom Wells Fargo reports". That is it.

[faith]

Cmcgreanor and Hoping to find,
You need to demand with your lender and the Negotiator to give you a letter that says that the Short Sale is Paid, Settled in less than full balance and the 2nd mortgage a letter stating Paid, Settled in less than full balance and the word forgiven. That will help you in case they report it as still owed. If they won't give you tell them a scare tactic like if you don't get that letter that states that the balance is forgiven and that they will not pursue any deficiency judgment against you, then you will not sign the escrow papers, you will let the house foreclose and you will file for bankruptcy. Now is the time for negotiation not after you sign the escrow. Lenders LIE all the time and you have to be bold, persistence and patient and fight a good fight. Don't let them know you re nervous and scared of what they will do, if you DO they will take advantage of you. Let them worry the problems they have created. Just stand firm and don't be swayed with their broken promises.

God bless and take care.

[cmcgreanor]

Originally Posted by faith

Cmcgreanor and Hoping to find,
You need to demand with your lender and the Negotiator to give you a letter that says that the Short Sale is Paid, Settled in less than full balance and the 2nd mortgage a letter stating Paid, Settled in less than full balance and the word forgiven. That will help you in case they report it as still owed. If they won't give you tell them a scare tactic like if you don't get that letter that states that the balance is forgiven and that they will not pursue any deficiency judgment against you, then you will not sign the escrow papers, you will let the house foreclose and you will file for bankruptcy. Now is the time for negotiation not after you sign the escrow. Lenders LIE all the time and you have to be bold, persistence and patient and fight a good fight. Don't let them know you re nervous and scared of what they will do, if you DO they will take advantage of you. Let them worry the problems they have created. Just stand firm and don't be swayed with their broken promises.

God bless and take care.

I actually demanded a letter stating that this morning and they said they would have to run it through their legal department. I did point out that their approval letter is mis-leading as it states that it will be reported as a charge-off. She said it wouldn't be reported that way, it will be reported as "settled in full short of the full amount due". I said that is my problem then I need that in writing. She said the charge-off part is only an internal accounting item. My approval letter for the first is the basic Wells Fargo letter stating the credit reporting and that they waive deficiency rights. The 2nd shows "forgiven". So I am waiting for that letter. I'll report back once I have it.

[cmcgreanor]

Originally Posted by faith

Cmcgreanor and Hoping to find,
You need to demand with your lender and the Negotiator to give you a letter that says that the Short Sale is Paid, Settled in less than full balance and the 2nd mortgage a letter stating Paid, Settled in less than full balance and the word forgiven. That will help you in case they report it as still owed. If they won't give you tell them a scare tactic like if you don't get that letter that states that the balance is forgiven and that they will not pursue any deficiency judgment against you, then you will not sign the escrow papers, you will let the house foreclose and you will file for bankruptcy. Now is the time for negotiation not after you sign the escrow. Lenders LIE all the time and you have to be bold, persistence and patient and fight a good fight. Don't let them know you re nervous and scared of what they will do, if you DO they will take advantage of you. Let them worry the problems they have created. Just stand firm and don't be swayed with their broken promises.

God bless and take care.

faith,

I asked for the letter from the equity solutions department, and they will not provide one. Did you receive one? I do have the letter that says it will be forgiven.

[HopingtoFind]

Originally Posted by cmcgreanor

I actually demanded a letter stating that this morning and they said they would have to run it through their legal department. I did point out that their approval letter is mis-leading as it states that it will be reported as a charge-off. She said it wouldn't be reported that way, it will be reported as "settled in full short of the full amount due". I said that is my problem then I need that in writing. She said the charge-off part is only an internal accounting item. My approval letter for the first is the basic Wells Fargo letter stating the credit reporting and that they waive deficiency rights. The 2nd shows "forgiven". So I am waiting for that letter. I'll report back once I have it.

I have also told them that it needs to say "Settled" NOT "Charged-off", I wouldn't believe her when she says that it wouldn't be reported as "charged-off" if it states in the letter that that is how it is going to be reported.
I think I have the same manager you do, although my negotiator and others call him Andy. Is his last name Miller?
Keep us posted.

[cmcgreanor]

Originally Posted by HopingtoFind

I have also told them that it needs to say "Settled" NOT "Charged-off", I wouldn't believe her when she says that it wouldn't be reported as "charged-off" if it states in the letter that that is how it is going to be reported.
I think I have the same manager you do, although my negotiator and others call him Andy. Is his last name Miller?
Keep us posted.

I have not spoken to him directly yet. I spoke to Jamie. My negotiator is Adam Broich. Yes Andy Miller is the guy. Please let me know what happens. She pretty much shot down my request for a letter.

[HopingtoFind]

Originally Posted by cmcgreanor

I have not spoken to him directly yet. I spoke to Jamie. My negotiator is Adam Broich. Yes Andy Miller is the guy. Please let me know what happens. She pretty much shot down my request for a letter.

I spoke to Andy once, earlier on... before aproval, in regards to credit reporting. I don't think he will budge. This needs to be escaleted much higher.

[cmcgreanor]

Originally Posted by HopingtoFind

I spoke to Andy once, earlier on... before aproval, in regards to credit reporting. I don't think he will budge. This needs to be escaleted much higher.

I am not sure who handles escalations past Andy. I have the Office of the President numbers and contacts but I am not sure they work with the equity solutions department.

According to faith, her report showed Paid, Settled in less than full balance. I just dont like taking a chance thinking this is going to be the case. I have documentation showing that on the first. I just do not have anything for the second. They are really frustrating. People trying to do the right thing and not walk away and foreclose and then they punish you for that. Does anyone have escalation contacts for the Equity Solutions department?

[cmcgreanor]

Calling wells fargo home equity office of the president...
1866-828-9436

I am calling now.

[HopingtoFind]

Originally Posted by cmcgreanor

Calling wells fargo home equity office of the president...
1866-828-9436

I am calling now.

I've been down that road... all they did is contact Andy and came back with the same answer. Maybe you'll have better luck.

[cmcgreanor]

Originally Posted by cmcgreanor

Calling wells fargo home equity office of the president...
1866-828-9436

I am calling now.

Just spoke with a representative at the Equity office of the preseident. She is going to check in with the credit reporting department and report back by tomorrow afternoon.

[faith]

Originally Posted by cmcgreanor

faith,

I asked for the letter from the equity solutions department, and they will not provide one. Did you receive one? I do have the letter that says it will be forgiven.

Yes, I have received a letter from CW stating that CW, its insurers and investors will not pursue any deficiency judgment against us. It also stated that the name of the buyer no substitution, the title company, 5% commission to the agent and no costs to me. It took them 4 months to approve the Short Sale because they will not give me the letter, until I told them that I will not sign the escrow if I don't get the letter that they will not pursue any deficiency judgment against us. They want me to sign a promissory note, I said no, I have a Purchase Money mortgage and never refinanced and therefore I am protected by CA Section 580b which states that they can not pursue any deficiency judgment against us once the house is sold. I have told them that they can foreclose the house and I will file for bankruptcy and it's their loss not mine. I told my Negotiator look, I was planning to hire a bankruptcy lawyer which would cost me $3,000, how about giving that $3,000 to the 2nd mortgage instead of hiring a lawyer. The trick worked, Fannie Mae bought out the 2nd for $14,000. I received the letter by mail, my agent faxed me a copy before I got the original letter stating they will not pursue any deficiency judgment against us. I then emaied my Negotiator about the 1099C, and asked him who's going to send the 1099C to me and how much was the balance forgiven. He responded and told me that the investor will send the 1099c and told me how much was the balance forgiven. That's all I needed.

The reason why you need to get it in writing is for your own protection.
Once you sign the mortgage without a letter stating forgiven, paid settled in less than full balance, then you can not dispute whatever they report to the credit bureuas. The title company, if they are honest and reputable company will be sending you paid in full satisfaction and also the County Recorder's office in 3 or more months after escrow.

CW still reported to the credit bureau that I owed the 2nd mortgage. I have disputed everything and wrote CW, BA and the credit bureaus with all the evidence that I kept and sent them these copies. CW and BA and the credit bureaus responded, they changed the report to zero balance, Paid, Settled in Less Than Full Balance.

I think as long as they have a letter stating forgiven or will be reported as Paid, Settled in Less than full balance will be helpful to you. You should also ask by email or letter stating how much was the balance forgiven for income tax reason. Because they did not send me my 1099C inspite of all my attemps to get it. They don't send you the 1099C because of their last attempt to get you sign the promissory note which I did not do. I used all the letters, reconveyance letter from the title company and the Country Recorder's office and the Negotiator's email and attached it to my income tax which was accepted by IRS and Franchise Tax Board.


Short Sale is a very hard work, very draining and frustrating process. But be of good cheer, be bold, patient and persistence. Your answer is only a prayer away. My thoughts and prayers will be with both of you and take care.

[cmcgreanor]

Originally Posted by faith

Yes, I have received a letter from CW stating that CW, its insurers and investors will not pursue any deficiency judgment against us. It also stated that the name of the buyer no substitution, the title company, 5% commission to the agent and no costs to me. It took them 4 months to approve the Short Sale because they will not give me the letter, until I told them that I will not sign the escrow if I don't get the letter that they will not pursue any deficiency judgment against us. They want me to sign a promissory note, I said no, I have a Purchase Money mortgage and never refinanced and therefore I am protected by CA Section 580b which states that they can not pursue any deficiency judgment against us once the house is sold. I have told them that they can foreclose the house and I will file for bankruptcy and it's their loss not mine. I told my Negotiator look, I was planning to hire a bankruptcy lawyer which would cost me $3,000, how about giving that $3,000 to the 2nd mortgage instead of hiring a lawyer. The trick worked, Fannie Mae bought out the 2nd for $14,000. I received the letter by mail, my agent faxed me a copy before I got the original letter stating they will not pursue any deficiency judgment against us. I then emaied my Negotiator about the 1099C, and asked him who's going to send the 1099C to me and how much was the balance forgiven. He responded and told me that the investor will send the 1099c and told me how much was the balance forgiven. That's all I needed.

The reason why you need to get it in writing is for your own protection.
Once you sign the mortgage without a letter stating forgiven, paid settled in less than full balance, then you can not dispute whatever they report to the credit bureuas. The title company, if they are honest and reputable company will be sending you paid in full satisfaction and also the County Recorder's office in 3 or more months after escrow.

CW still reported to the credit bureau that I owed the 2nd mortgage. I have disputed everything and wrote CW, BA and the credit bureaus with all the evidence that I kept and sent them these copies. CW and BA and the credit bureaus responded, they changed the report to zero balance, Paid, Settled in Less Than Full Balance.

I think as long as they have a letter stating forgiven or will be reported as Paid, Settled in Less than full balance will be helpful to you. You should also ask by email or letter stating how much was the balance forgiven for income tax reason. Because they did not send me my 1099C inspite of all my attemps to get it. They don't send you the 1099C because of their last attempt to get you sign the promissory note which I did not do. I used all the letters, reconveyance letter from the title company and the Country Recorder's office and the Negotiator's email and attached it to my income tax which was accepted by IRS and Franchise Tax Board.


Short Sale is a very hard work, very draining and frustrating process. But be of good cheer, be bold, patient and persistence. Your answer is only a prayer away. My thoughts and prayers will be with both of you and take care.

Thank you faith. My 2nd approval letter does state it will be "forgiven". I am still working on a letter that states how it will be reported. Charge-off is not acceptable. If I can use the forgiven part of the letter in a dispute later on with the credit bureaus that will be beneficial.

[faith]

Originally Posted by cmcgreanor

Thank you faith. My 2nd approval letter does state it will be "forgiven". I am still working on a letter that states how it will be reported. Charge-off is not acceptable. If I can use the forgiven part of the letter in a dispute later on with the credit bureaus that will be beneficial.

CMCGreanor,
That's all you need, the term forgiven, no deficiency judgment against you, Paid, Settled in Less Than Full Balance. These terminology should be in writing and in your escrow papers. If you have this in writing and they report it as charge off you have a proof that state otherwise.

You also will get a letter from the Title Company and the County Recorder;s office within 30 days after escrow, if you dont get it call the Title Company or the County Recorder. They normally issue it from 30 days to 90 days. These letters should show that the Deed of Trust is Paid in Full for both 1st and 2nd. It is called Reconveyance Letter.

I suggest that you buy an hour or two hours time to seek a legal advice with expertise in Credit Reporting and Consumer Rights or Real Estate lawyer if they continue to give you hard time

Your lender or mortgage company having written off your second mortgage or declared it as a charge-off, the debt will be considered as uncollectible. This indicates that the unpaid loan balance will be reported as a loss when the lender uses an accounting method for calculation of taxes. However, even after declaring a charge-off, the lender may hand over your debt to a collection agency.

You cannot consider the debt as forgiven until or unless the lender issues a 1099-C form. And, even if your lender does not send you the form, he may have sent it to the Internal Revenue Service. Therefore, you should claim the unpaid balance on the second mortgage or the charged-off amount as income on your income tax return in the year the debt has been forgiven using the form 982 to avoid penalty from the IRS. Once you file your income tax on the forgiven debt, the lender should not come after the unpaid balance again.

See IRS website:

http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=179414,00.html

If you settle with your lender about the 2^nd mortgage by paying it down by 5% or 10% of the balance owed, say the balance owed is $100,000, settle for $5,000 payable in 5 years and no interest, that way they can report it as Paid, Settled in less than Full Balance. Then again it should be mentioned in your escrow papers.

Some lenders and negotiators are hard headed and don’t know what they are doing. Some are stupid and idiot. If you can’t get it in writing maybe a trip to a lawyers office may help you.

Check the following website just in case you decide to hire a lawyer to check to see if the lawyer is license to practice law in CA :

http://members.calbar.ca.gov/search/member.aspx



Peace be with you.

[HopingtoFind]

Originally Posted by faith

CMCGreanor,
That's all you need, the term forgiven, no deficiency judgment against you, Paid, Settled in Less Than Full Balance. These terminology should be in writing and in your escrow papers. If you have this in writing and they report it as charge off you have a proof that state otherwise.

Our letters from the 2nd sound the same.

In one paragraph it states:

"The shortfall amount (outstanding loan balance including additional charges, less net sale proceeds), estimated $xx.xxx is forgiven"

The other paragraph states:

"Upon satisfaction of the above conditions, Wells Fargo will:

Report the account that is the subject of the short sale transaction to the credit bureaus to whom Wells Fargo reports consumer account information as a charge-off."

The second paragraph is a problem. Even through they are forgiving debt, they are reporting it as charge off.

I hope I clarified this thread.

[cmcgreanor]

Originally Posted by HopingtoFind

Our letters from the 2nd sound the same.

In one paragraph it states:

"The shortfall amount (outstanding loan balance including additional charges, less net sale proceeds), estimated $xx.xxx is forgiven"

The other paragraph states:

"Upon satisfaction of the above conditions, Wells Fargo will:

Report the account that is the subject of the short sale transaction to the credit bureaus to whom Wells Fargo reports consumer account information as a charge-off."

The second paragraph is a problem. Even through they are forgiving debt, they are reporting it as charge off.

I hope I clarified this thread.

Yes the letters seem to be identical. I am waiting for a call back from the Equity Solutions office of the president. I am current on my payments with an approved short sale. I thought a charge-off was typically done after 120-180 days of delinquent payments?? I am paying 3,000 for a settlement not a charge off. They are very frustrating. In another document I have they say they have an obligation to the credit community to report accurate information. Maybe they should try doing that.!!!

[HopingtoFind]

Originally Posted by cmcgreanor

Yes the letters seem to be identical. I am waiting for a call back from the Equity Solutions office of the president. I am current on my payments with an approved short sale. I thought a charge-off was typically done after 120-180 days of delinquent payments?? I am paying 3,000 for a settlement not a charge off. They are very frustrating. In another document I have they say they have an obligation to the credit community to report accurate information. Maybe they should try doing that.!!!

Yes if you're over 120 days delinquent they CAN charge off your debt.
But in your case they're charging it off because they agreed to a short sale and know that they will not be getting the full payment from you.
Charge off basically means that they are not going to receive what they are owed and they are charging it off.
It is just that if someone is looking at your credit and your loan is reported as "charged off", there is no way for them to tell that they actually received some money and settled. For all they know you haven't done anything to mitigate damages if your loan shows up as charged off.

[faith]

A charge off second mortgage debt means that the unpaid loan amount with interest will be reported as a loss for the creditor when he uses an accounting method for calculating tax purposes.

But it does not mean that you no longer owe the debt. The creditor has the right to collect the debt long after the second mortgage charge off and for this, he takes the help of a collection agency. Charge off have a negative affect on the credit report; most charge-offs stay on the report for 7 years and 180 days from the date of the first non-payment (under the Fair Credit Reporting Act).

If you pay down the charge off it will be reported paid charge off and if you negotiate with your lender to settle the balance owed, the account is reported as "settled charge-off".

[HopingtoFind]

Originally Posted by faith

A charge off second mortgage debt means that the unpaid loan amount with interest will be reported as a loss for the creditor when he uses an accounting method for calculating tax purposes.

But it does not mean that you no longer owe the debt. The creditor has the right to collect the debt long after the second mortgage charge off and for this, he takes the help of a collection agency. Charge off have a negative affect on the credit report; most charge-offs stay on the report for 7 years and 180 days from the date of the first non-payment (under the Fair Credit Reporting Act).

If you pay down the charge off it will be reported paid charge off and if you negotiate with your lender to settle the balance owed, the account is reported as "settled charge-off".

When I spoke to office of the President, they told me that because we settled, they would be reporting it as "settled charge-off". My question is is there anyway to awoid the words "charge-off" on our credit reports.
Did you have the words "charge_off" on your credit report with the 2nd loan?

[faith]

Originally Posted by HopingtoFind

When I spoke to office of the President, they told me that because we settled, they would be reporting it as "settled charge-off". My question is is there anyway to awoid the words "charge-off" on our credit reports.
Did you have the words "charge_off" on your credit report with the 2nd loan?

I guess it depends on the lender. My lender is CW and it was easy to dealt with before they became BA. Both my 1st and 2nd showed Zero balance, Paid, Settled In Less Than Full Balance. Just make sure you have everything in writing. Let's hope for the best.