How do stash rental income?

[fe826]

Please bare with my stupidity but how would i justify collecting rent not making pmt and no money in the bank?

Can anyone please reply to this. I need to get savvy and fast! It might be too late. so much for having values...

How would I justify withdrawing such a big chunk of $ after I submitted all my paperwork?


As far as rental income is concerned, it has been mentioned not having that amt in the bank but where do i stash it and how? Call me naive or plain stupid but I am oblivious to this twisted, absurd modification game.

We stopped making the payments because it was impossible to come up with $1000 ($2k rental income, $3k mortgage pmt) monthly out of pocket when my husband was out of work for 6 wks no pay, we never touched the rental income and just left it in the bank hoping that one day we will be able to used it to negotiate a mod.

Plus in my mind I couldn't be using this money if wasn't mine. All though we did face some very tough months & borrowed from it so we can eat but replaced it as soon as we could.

I still cant put my mind around the fact that you get punished for being honest.

I was just offered a trial period on rental mod. asking me to put 10k down. They want this $ bc its in the bank. I don't mind putting the 10k down but I will not do it if they don't give me something in writing and concrete as far as what my modification will be after the trial period. I will wait to get the docs in the mail write reject and send them an explanation of what I want. If they are not willing to budge which I'm sure they wont I will request a short sale. Putting 1000 out our pocket for a rental makes no sense in the economy that we are in right now.

It's just been a tough decision to make since not only our lives will be affected but in turn we will be displacing 2 families from their home. My husband and I were committed in providing affordable housing to low income families and miraculously managed to do so for 1 yr 8 months but our ideal will most likely come to an an end if we dont manage to save this house.

I need to learn to play this game PRONTO! HELP!

[Evan Bedard]

Hi fe826,

That is a lot to come up with up front for the trial period and they most likely will not give you an answer as to if they will be a permanent mod after or not. If they eill not disclose that info, you may want to consider the short sale as it will save you from throwing away 10k and losing the home anyway. Keep in mind you must list the home for at least three months before they will consider the short sale..

[fe826]

Evan,

Okay. Lets say I do proceed w/ a short sale. Does my tenant continue to pay me rent until the property is sold. I don't think they will have an incentive to stick around they might just leave since they are only on a monthly lease or worse yet they'll stay and not pay. It would be too painful to see the house abandoned and destroyed. They money that I've collected in rental income is only a fraction of what I have already put into the house.

Again I don't mind putting the 10k down after all it is the rental income but I want a guarantee that my monthly pmt will be lowered.

When I officially reject their offer do you think they might consider me for the trial period without the 10k down?

It seems to me that the trial period is the way all mods are going right now. Again just buying time to squeeze more money out of people before they foreclose. If their true intention was to save homes by making them affordable they would give you a mod up front and put it into effect once you made all your trial pmts on time.

Losing hope is it still worth to continue to fight?

[vegasunderwater]

This is a real life game of chess. Lenders care less about you or anyone else. They are NOT your friend or ally. Consider them your opponent. All they care about is getting as much $$$ from the borrower they can no matter what it takes. Whoever can outsmart the other first and get to the finish line with the most chips wins.

So, by all means, DO NOT give them your chips! Once you do, they have the upper hand and it's too late. They are trying to bamboozle you right now. Stay calm. Smart to get as much in black and white so you have recourse.

Collect as much rent as you can while defaulting. Better yet, get an attorney to tie the process up as long as possible while pocketing the rent. Your tenant is bound by lease until it expires, and even it you foreclose, many lender are renting back to tenant now anyway. If they are on month-to-month, then tell them they are to keep paying rent. Your debt negotiations with the lender is no business of theirs to begin with until and unless you let the property go and don't take care of them, but that's a long way away. If they already know, then try and work things out. If not, get another tenant and keep collecting until it's either resolved or it's past foreclosure at which point you can decide then. If the lender is unwilling to keep the lease intact, you can give them some move out cash (called cash for keys) which is the right thing to do with a good tenant.

Whatever you decide, never give your opponent cash in advance and without an iron-clad agreement in your favor and never give them any information without knowing what you'll be up against in a worst-case scenario. They can and will use that information AGAINST YOU AND THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THEY WILL MOD YOUR LOAN!

I would've told them you need to use that tiny amount of $$$ to survive and screw them, that $$$ is gone and unless they mod the loan in order for the property cash flow positive, you will have no choice but to short sell or foreclosue, and they will win up losing was more than you!

[jakelabry]

Originally Posted by vegasunderwater

This is a real life game of chess. Lenders care less about you or anyone else. They are NOT your friend or ally. Consider them your opponent. All they care about is getting as much $$$ from the borrower they can no matter what it takes. Whoever can outsmart the other first and get to the finish line with the most chips wins.

So, by all means, DO NOT give them your chips! Once you do, they have the upper hand and it's too late. They are trying to bamboozle you right now. Stay calm. Smart to get as much in black and white so you have recourse.

Collect as much rent as you can while defaulting. Better yet, get an attorney to tie the process up as long as possible while pocketing the rent. Your tenant is bound by lease until it expires, and even it you foreclose, many lender are renting back to tenant now anyway. If they are on month-to-month, then tell them they are to keep paying rent. Your debt negotiations with the lender is no business of theirs to begin with until and unless you let the property go and don't take care of them, but that's a long way away. If they already know, then try and work things out. If not, get another tenant and keep collecting until it's either resolved or it's past foreclosure at which point you can decide then. If the lender is unwilling to keep the lease intact, you can give them some move out cash (called cash for keys) which is the right thing to do with a good tenant.

Whatever you decide, never give your opponent cash in advance and without an iron-clad agreement in your favor and never give them any information without knowing what you'll be up against in a worst-case scenario. They can and will use that information AGAINST YOU AND THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THEY WILL MOD YOUR LOAN!

I would've told them you need to use that tiny amount of $$$ to survive and screw them, that $$$ is gone and unless they mod the loan in order for the property cash flow positive, you will have no choice but to short sell or foreclosue, and they will win up losing was more than you!

fe826, you need to proceed very carefully in this matter. Renters are not without recourse anymore. Please read the following link and try to refrain from playing "screw the bank" at the expense of your renters:

Renters in Foreclosure: What Are Their Rights?

[vegasunderwater]

Much of what I already mentioned is in that article. As long as you're upfront in disclosing to your tenants if and when it short sells or foreclose, I don't see a problem. But that's a long process and may or may not happen since you're at the mercy of the banks. In the meantime at leats you can pocket that rent!

[fe826]

Jakelabry: once again thank you so much for the link. I truly appreciate the resources you have provided with these links. I work two jobs and have a 3 kids and my husband is now working long hrs (I'm not complaining we are happy to have an income) but as much as I would want to I don't have time to do all the research myself. I am also thankful for this site.

Vegasunderwater: I appreciate your time, thank you for replying. The truth is I really want to save this home and my goal is to fight to the end. Believe me I am so new to this that I was ready to hand the 10k over but after reading numerous posts about how mesquine the banks are and now after reading your reply it would be quite dumb of me to give up so much $ if I am not even being offered a mod. just a trial period. I will gladly give them the $ if I get mod. that lowers my monthly pmts.

My tenants:
They are absolutely very nice people and I have notified them since I started the mod process. I was up front and told them that they could either leave or stick around and weight it out with me. I informed them about the risk of not being able to save the house. I also told them that if they didn't give me the mod. I would give them a month worth of rent for a deposit for a new place. They agreed to stay and I have been maintaining the property to the same standards as usual. In fact, I just spend $800 a new water heater. I am a conscientious person and would not want to mislead my tenants in any way.

Do you think the bank will agree to give me the trial period if I don't give them the 10k they already know that I have?

[Irish Gal]

Hey fe826,

Welcome! Sorry for your dilemma. You sound like a great landlord who takes good care of her tenants. Kudos, to you. I understand your idealist nature, as I too have those tendencies. But, idealists usually get screwed by high fianance thugs ! You have done a good job of informing your tenants. Once you are honest and tenants are informed, it is their responsibility to make their own decisions about their futures. So, don't take on too much responsibility there. You plan to do the right thing by your tenants, and that's all you can do. Your primary concern is your family and its financial future. I would NOT fork over $10K to any (predatory) lender for help modifying you loan. This econ is expected to be bad for a long time, esp. for working folks. Foreclosures, higher unemployment in 2010, no jobs returning in some sectors, skyrocketing healthcare costs, yada yada yada. Please, please do not allow this lender to blackmail you into paying $10k for the help you need. You should NOT have to pay $10k to get the help you need. The lender is just trying to exploit you, as vegas said. It's a tactic as they know you are desperate. Please get a hold of your emotions in this process and start looking at all this as a business decision, as the lenders do. There is story after story on this site where lenders promised mods, and foreclosed anyways on folks. They usually do loan mod/debt collection activities concurrently while also processing foreclosures (misleading many folks to believe they are modifying while they're planning to foreclose, anyways). Don't fall for their unethical, dirty tactics. As vega said, lenders are not your friends. This whole loan mod process is a GAME. And, the lenders are winning, thus far. Many don't plan to actually offer any mods of any real substance to homeowners, but have to "look" like they are, to keep the gov't off their backs. They do what's cheapest for them, in all this. Most offer predatory loan mods, or want to foreclose, as they have insurance to cover foreclosure costs, then make $ by selling the home, also. So, they don't actually lose by foreclosing. I hate to see good, honest, hardworking Americans get taken advantage of again and again by these lender creeps. Please educ yourself here, read, read, read. Esp. deed in lieu/foreclosure thread. Prof Shays has good tips/advice. He reminds us all the time to take the emotions out of the process. Do what's best for your family, long-term. You're going to need that $10k in 2010 and beyond. Once it's gone, it's gone. And, for what? Nothing definite from this lender. Also, I hope you have a atty available for advice, as needed. Look at ALL of your LONG TERM options. You're going to need that $10k. Sooner rather than later, the way this econ is going. Good luck and keep us posted.

[faith]

[quote=fe826;116048]Please bare with my stupidity but how would i justify collecting rent not making pmt and no money in the bank?

Can anyone please reply to this. I need to get savvy and fast! It might be too late. so much for having values...

How would I justify withdrawing such a big chunk of $ after I submitted all my paperwork?


As far as rental income is concerned, it has been mentioned not having that amt in the bank but where do i stash it and how? Call me naive or plain stupid but I am oblivious to this twisted, absurd modification game.

Hello and welcome to this forum,

Where to hide your cash in your home:
1. You can withdraw cash and buy a cashier's check. Then hide that check in your filing cabinet, buy a fireproof vault probably will cost you $30 or $50 and hide the cashier's check there. Everytime you withdraw cash, buy a cashier's check and hide it in your vault. Just get a calendar to remind yourself when to cash the cashier's check and then buy another cashier's check to hide in your vault before the cashier's check expires.

2. You can hide your cash wrapped it with aluminum foil, put it inside a pair of socks, then put it in the vault.

3. You can wrap the cash into aluminum foil and taped it inside your fireproof filing cabinet.

4. Open a new account to a different bank not known by your lender preferably credit union near you and use your children's ssn..

Caution: It is not advisable to hide your money underneath the mattress This is a True story. A woman in Jerusalem hide her cash money worth
$1 million dollars underneath her bed. One day someone in her household bought a new mattress and threw away the bed that has $1 million dollars in it. She was very hysterical and went to the dumpster and the bed was no longer there along with her $1 million dollars.

Note the information provided is only a suggestion and not a legal advice.

Thank you and God bless you.

[Angels]

buy gift cards and use them when needed. having cash around the house makes me uncomfortable.

[ajatkinsaz]

Hi there -
How far back could "THEY" go into your banking/assest history to find $$$$ you hid, say in a kids bank account?

[we're_still_reviewing]

Originally Posted by ajatkinsaz

Hi there -
How far back could "THEY" go into your banking/assest history to find $$$$ you hid, say in a kids bank account?

Curious as to the answer to this as well.

[lisasxr]

How could "THEY" prove that you withdrawing funds at ANY time (1 year, 10 yrs, 1 month or 1 day in the past) was for anything other than to purchase something, help pay bills to debt collectors, etc.

It should have nothing to do with how much money you have in the bank. Especially if you have large amounts hitting your account as deposits - although I can prove that I sold a car and borrowed from my 401K to stay current the last 6 months - they don't give a rats behind - they'll just deny me because I did stay current.

[ajatkinsaz]

What if BK were used as part of an exit strategy for a failed investment property to avoid massive defficency bill from lender. Is it true that creditors (credit cards especially) can go back in your financial history for a min of 6 months? If there is tens of thousands of $$ in your account that suddenly "disapeared" (not used for bills or large purchase), then wouldn't that be seen as suspicious(fraudulant)? Just looking for advice if anyone has experience with this. thanks

[we're_still_reviewing]

Originally Posted by ajatkinsaz

What if BK were used as part of an exit strategy for a failed investment property to avoid massive defficency bill from lender. Is it true that creditors (credit cards especially) can go back in your financial history for a min of 6 months? If there is tens of thousands of $$ in your account that suddenly "disapeared" (not used for bills or large purchase), then wouldn't that be seen as suspicious(fraudulant)? Just looking for advice if anyone has experience with this. thanks

Not sure to the answer to this. Just bumping it up. Hopefully someone knowledgeable can answer this.

Good Luck

__________________________________________________ __

Paying it Forward

[floridagirl23]

Not sure how you are going to hid it since it is on the bank statement you gave but I would start out by taking smaller withdrawals from the bank in increments that may go undetected. When I went to a BK lawyer once he said to make sure it was under $1000. I would probably make it closer to $500. I know it sounds sneaky but its not as if I am sure you are really gaining anything as you probably paid out of pocket already for the mortgage that you paid over the rent you received. At this point it may be the only way you get your money back.

[davephx]

Originally Posted by ajatkinsaz

Is it true that creditors (credit cards especially) can go back in your financial history for a min of 6 months? If there is tens of thousands of $$ in your account that suddenly "disapeared" (not used for bills or large purchase), then wouldn't that be seen as suspicious(fraudulant)? Just looking for advice if anyone has experience with this. thanks

Yep and it is 1 year look back for related parties and even "friends".

Looking for big ticket items which would probably exceed your allowance for exempt property like $4000 household goods or whatever under your State Examptions.

Credit card payments over I believe $400 past 90 days can be retrieved back to the bkk estate.