Predatory Lending Question

[Merritt]

This is very interesting, as when my wife and I received our first home loan we were paying $1400 a month, but then a friend of ours suggested a friend of theirs..(i'll make this short since the story is all the same, but I have to dig through my paperwork) we ended up on a loan that we now pay close to $2500 a month. I only bring it up here because I feel in my gut that things were not on the up and up at the time, and honestly we didn't know any better, and since we were sucked in with the promise of even lower payments we signed away, obviously that is not the case. Time to get the files out.

[going4rwd]

I'm going to throw this questions out there and see if I can get some advice. I am currently 2 months behind on my mortgage payment and have decided to try and short sale my property. When I checked my docs to see if the "Right to Sale" clause was included, I noticed that my lender had me resign the Right to Cancel, Note and TIL after my loan funded. They sent a fedex package with a letter stating that in order to sale my loan to the investor, they needed me to sign revised documents due to a computer glitch and my loan was still funded. The documents mentioned above were included and I signed them with the date requested and sent them back, keeping a copy of everything. The letter states the only difference is a correction to the term, changing it to a 10 year I/O loan (When I negotiated the terms with the Loan Officer, he said they could only do a 7 year I/O loan and that is what my original docs reflect). You would think that the 10 year I/O would be more beneficial, however, when I read the TIL the amount of interest over 30 years is actually more on the revised docs than on the original docs. The reason is because the revised docs adjusts in 7 years then proceed for another 3 years I/O with a higher rate and then goes fully amortized. I have the letter from the Lender, the Sticky stating the investors reviewed the revised docs with management and a copy of the revised docs with only the term highlighted and not the amount financed. Do I have any recourse? Maybe leverage to avoid any deficiency and negative credit rating?

[schwefls]

Hi going4wd welcome to our forum:

I wanted to stop in say hello and assure you, you are not alone. Someone will be reaching out to you with some direction. In the interim please hang in there and know that we are here for you.

[grammaleenie]

okay, so the bottom line is, if you think you're a victim of preditory lending, you should contact an attorney? I'm in Chapter 13 bankruptcy. Can I retain another attorney regarding preditory lending?

[Moe Bedard]

You would need a real estate attorney that specializes in mortgage fraud.

[abbigail]

Hi,I'm not sure if it's too late to post anything on this site or not. I've posted on the Citi site but have seen that some people here have gone through similar things so I thought I'd share.In 2005 I had a lot of equity in my home and decided to refinance. This house needed some things fixed. I was getting calls all the time to do refinance or to sell the house. Then one guy out of state Amstar Mortgage in Penn. was very aggressive. I kept being undecided then finally gave in. When the time came for the paperwork, I got two sets of docs with different numbers. I called the guy and he said to sign which ever one I wanted. One paid him more and one more cash out to me.....he was upset two had been sent over. This was not my first refinance. I owned a home in CA. it wasnt like this though. Amstar financed me with OCWEN. There was bad press for them. I was still getting calls to refinance. Still had a lot of equity because I'd put all my money into this house plus the equity because of the cost of the thing. It was a high intrest rate. Finally one lady called, she was very nice and talked for a long time. She finally asked aobut the refinance I'd just done recently and said "Oh no Ocwen?" If it goes under you could lose your home. I was scared. I researched it but couldnt find much to support that. She kept calling and I'd ask her questions through email or by phone too. She said she could get me a refinance for a lot less....like half nearly what I was paying. I wasnt sure about that. she asked to see the paperwork from the other refinance I let her and she said he way overcharged me and maybe something illegal went on. In the end I did do the refinance with her. It was a nightmare. It was supposed to be done by Dec. I was going to go out of town. She said it would be before or right after. It was not before so I went. She decided to find a notary in the state I was traveling through. She emailed them to his house. I said I didnt like that but gave up. He coudlnt get them all printed. We had to sign the papers at a kinkos, they were emailed there. The notary didnt know what was going on and kept telling me I could change my mind anytime....I should have known that was a message. It took hours. I asked him questions about the papers he had to call her to find out what I had to sign. Then it ended up that was a holiday so by waiting my three days ran over the holiday and into the new year. I didnt get the right amount or the right percentage or anything and basically just gave up. BECAUSE while doing this she told me not to make my mortgage payments while she was doing this...I kept asking aobut it. I knew one month they do that but not two. In the end the dang things went on my credit with Ocwen. I was with someone else but still is on my credit. I called her after that and it was hard to talk to her. Later I tried to talk to her about a refinance but she would not take the calls at all. That office the line goes to which ever one answers no direct line so you can ask for a manager. I tried.I had someone I know who's father in law is a mortgage broker look at the papers. He said she got more money that the other guy did for the refinance and the papers didnt look right at all. Now no equity and in trouble with this awfull loan. My fault for listening and doing it when I wasnt exactly sure I should. I had to learn people are not always face value and that I can be gullable and stupid losing the equity (and the money from selling in CA) in my home that was to go to my sons.

[mct123]

Originally Posted by Moe

I spoke with a lady last night who needed help with a loan modification. After speaking with her for a few minutes I realized that these were some funny things going on when she obtained the loan through a mortgage broker. In other words there was definitley some signs of predatory lending.

From being in the industry, I know there are certain guidelines and laws that you have to follow. One that was violated on her refinance was when she signed her loan documents, the notary back dated the papers for 3 days back and they eneded up recording and funding the loan the next day, thus relinquishing her right to a 3 day right of rescission.

What kind of legal recourse does this homeowner have?

hi...i was wondering if there is a contact number that i can reach you as well. i really really need assistance with my loan right now and any help or advice i receive would help out. thanks.

[Moe Bedard]

this is a link to the attorneys that look into predatory loans for LoanSafe.
Safe-loan-modification-service | Home Mortgage | Protect Your Home & Mortgage With Loan Safe

[BillB]

Hello... I finally found a real estate lawyer in Massachusetts that is up to speed on this type of stuff and met with him this week. Without even doing a full forensic audit they were able to point out and actually highlight at least 7 violations ranging from my interest only period being 6.65% and the finance charge being 9.7%, several "junk" closing fees totaling roughly 10k when they should usually be 3-4k for the 80/20 loan I signed, and several others. That's without doing a complete comb over.

They are putting together the entire package for me including financials, diti numbers, hardship letter, the violations explanations for leverage, and everything else you would present for any modification and when I have my follow up meeting with him next week I have a choice to either pay them $500 for the entire package, etc. so that I can present them to the lender myself or retain the lawyer to do all the negotiating for an additional $1500 making the total $2000 for the attorney to do everything. That sounds about what folks here have said the going rate is for this type of thing.

My question is I signed these original docs almost 4 years ago (it will be exactly 4 next month) so is there any statutes preventing me from using these violations as leverage for a good mod with the 80 and a possible settlement for the 20 since my mortgage is worth about what the 80 principle is and whether or not I should pay the attorney the additional $1500 to do the negotiating for me or just present the packet they would present on my own. My thinking is that they'd try jerking me around where they can't really do that to a lawyer but if it's 100% clear violations in black and white do I even need the attorney to finish this? Also could I have a non-profit such as NACA take it from here to do the negotiating taking the "grunt work" out of their services and saving me some money? I know this isn't a law center but any guidance would be greatly appreciated so if nothing else I can be a bit more educated when I go to meet with the lawyer next week to tell him how I'd like to pursue going forward.

[faith]

BillB;112408]Hello... I finally found a real estate lawyer in Massachusetts that is up to speed on this type of stuff and met with him this week. Without even doing a full forensic audit they were able to point out and actually highlight at least 7 violations ranging from my interest only period being 6.65% and the finance charge being 9.7%, several "junk" closing fees totaling roughly 10k when they should usually be 3-4k for the 80/20 loan I signed, and several others. That's without doing a complete comb over.

They are putting together the entire package for me including financials, diti numbers, hardship letter, the violations explanations for leverage, and everything else you would present for any modification and when I have my follow up meeting with him next week I have a choice to either pay them $500 for the entire package, etc. so that I can present them to the lender myself or retain the lawyer to do all the negotiating for an additional $1500 making the total $2000 for the attorney to do everything. That sounds about what folks here have said the going rate is for this type of thing.

My question is I signed these original docs almost 4 years ago (it will be exactly 4 next month) so is there any statutes preventing me from using these violations as leverage for a good mod with the 80 and a possible settlement for the 20 since my mortgage is worth about what the 80 principle is and whether or not I should pay the attorney the additional $1500 to do the negotiating for me or just present the packet they would present on my own. My thinking is that they'd try jerking me around where they can't really do that to a lawyer but if it's 100% clear violations in black and white do I even need the attorney to finish this? Also could I have a non-profit such as NACA take it from here to do the negotiating taking the "grunt work" out of their services and saving me some money? I know this isn't a law center but any guidance would be greatly appreciated so if nothing else I can be a bit more educated when I go to meet with the lawyer next week to tell him how I'd like to pursue going forward.[/quote]

Hello and welcome to this forum,
Before you hire your lawyer make sure to check if he is license to practice law in Massachusetts. I think NACA can help you with your situation and it's free.

Please click the link provided and read it carefully, it will help you understand the process of QWR, and help find if the lawyer is license in Massachusetts.

Scare Mail: Beware of ?QWR?s


The BBOWEB database lookup by Last+F* name.

http://www.massbar.org/for-the-public/need-a-lawyer/tips-on-choosing-a-lawyer

https://www.naca.com/index_main.jsp

Hope this helps.

[jakelabry]

Originally Posted by BillB

Hello... I finally found a real estate lawyer in Massachusetts that is up to speed on this type of stuff and met with him this week. Without even doing a full forensic audit they were able to point out and actually highlight at least 7 violations ranging from my interest only period being 6.65% and the finance charge being 9.7%, several "junk" closing fees totaling roughly 10k when they should usually be 3-4k for the 80/20 loan I signed, and several others. That's without doing a complete comb over.

They are putting together the entire package for me including financials, diti numbers, hardship letter, the violations explanations for leverage, and everything else you would present for any modification and when I have my follow up meeting with him next week I have a choice to either pay them $500 for the entire package, etc. so that I can present them to the lender myself or retain the lawyer to do all the negotiating for an additional $1500 making the total $2000 for the attorney to do everything. That sounds about what folks here have said the going rate is for this type of thing.

My question is I signed these original docs almost 4 years ago (it will be exactly 4 next month) so is there any statutes preventing me from using these violations as leverage for a good mod with the 80 and a possible settlement for the 20 since my mortgage is worth about what the 80 principle is and whether or not I should pay the attorney the additional $1500 to do the negotiating for me or just present the packet they would present on my own. My thinking is that they'd try jerking me around where they can't really do that to a lawyer but if it's 100% clear violations in black and white do I even need the attorney to finish this? Also could I have a non-profit such as NACA take it from here to do the negotiating taking the "grunt work" out of their services and saving me some money? I know this isn't a law center but any guidance would be greatly appreciated so if nothing else I can be a bit more educated when I go to meet with the lawyer next week to tell him how I'd like to pursue going forward.

I'm not real sure after this amount of time what leverage you have. If this were a refinance of an original loan, then violations would cause your right to rescind the loan to extend from three days to three years. I don't believe there is a right to rescind on an original loan. Even if the loan could be rescinded you still have to have alternate financing available because you don't "get" the house. It wouldn't hurt to contact an organization like NACA to see if they think they can do anything. What is the lawyer telling you? If this was a refi, your right to rescind is gone after four years so what do they think they have in the way of leverage?

[caldwellb02]

I just spoke with NACA and can barely move. JPMorgan Chase told them my loan mod was denied because my son was not on the original note. When I got the loan both my son and I applied together. They actually gave the $310,000 loan to me (I made less than $48,000/year). They told us it was so we could get a better rate. My son was paying 1/2, I was paying 1/2, so I was okay. We got a one year mod last year only by putting my son onto the loan. My son's salary has since tanked, but I can't get a mod because he wasn't on the ORIGINAL loan. I don't think I should have gotten this loan on my salary alone. I wonder if they inflated my salary, or if they added his to mine to justify it? I don't have ANY documents that tell the tale of what income they based this on. I'm stunnnnnned. Can barely move, and don't know what to do. Any advice?

[TNT101]

Originally Posted by caldwellb02

I just spoke with NACA and can barely move. JPMorgan Chase told them my loan mod was denied because my son was not on the original note. When I got the loan both my son and I applied together. They actually gave the $310,000 loan to me (I made less than $48,000/year). They told us it was so we could get a better rate. My son was paying 1/2, I was paying 1/2, so I was okay. We got a one year mod last year only by putting my son onto the loan. My son's salary has since tanked, but I can't get a mod because he wasn't on the ORIGINAL loan. I don't think I should have gotten this loan on my salary alone. I wonder if they inflated my salary, or if they added his to mine to justify it? I don't have ANY documents that tell the tale of what income they based this on. I'm stunnnnnned. Can barely move, and don't know what to do. Any advice?

Caldwellb02

Sorry to hear your lender has responded this way.

I recommend that you write a letter to your lender. I looked on the back of my payment letter to find out the address and department to send inquiry letters. It is not the same as the payment location normally.

There is a sample of the letter to write. It is called QWR in Moe's e-book. it is referenced in the begining of the web site in Moe's introduction post.
I just opened an new Word file and the copied and pasted the sample letter from Moe's e-book.

By sending this to the company you make the payments for your mortgage it requires that they provide you all the documentation on the forms used for getting the loan and what you signed and receieved in Escrow or the attorney's office when you signed for the loan. It will include all the information on income for qualifying, etc. They must send all this information back to you within 20 days.

Pour over this information to see if they provide you enough information to go back to the mortgage modification department and show them why your son should have been on the documents and why the loan was made with his income included etc. This should give you the information to make them rethink their position.

If not then get a laywer who specializes in a "forensic audit" of these documents - see the lawyer section on this web site to find references. You will need to pay $300-$500 but then you should have better legal direction on what is your next steps to take.

Don't give up. Keep posting, you will get more help as people report what works on similar situations they had like you and how it worked out.

TNT101

[faith]

Originally Posted by caldwellb02

I just spoke with NACA and can barely move. JPMorgan Chase told them my loan mod was denied because my son was not on the original note. When I got the loan both my son and I applied together. They actually gave the $310,000 loan to me (I made less than $48,000/year). They told us it was so we could get a better rate. My son was paying 1/2, I was paying 1/2, so I was okay. We got a one year mod last year only by putting my son onto the loan. My son's salary has since tanked, but I can't get a mod because he wasn't on the ORIGINAL loan. I don't think I should have gotten this loan on my salary alone. I wonder if they inflated my salary, or if they added his to mine to justify it? I don't have ANY documents that tell the tale of what income they based this on. I'm stunnnnnned. Can barely move, and don't know what to do. Any advice?

Caldwellb02,
You can find out the income they used by checking your loan documents when you first signed the loan. Check your papers and look for your application and you will see the income they have used. I've found mine and saw the income they have used including the savings they said I have. There maybe violations on mine but it's too late to fight it because I have already sold my house.

Just keep calling NACA and don't lose hope. Be persistent, bold and patient. It takes time to be approved of any loan modification, short sale approval and reconsideration from any denial. Keep asking and calling them.

Wish you the best.

God bless and take care.

[caldwellb02]

I don't have a SIGNED copy of the documents that stated an inflated income for me. I have now found the documents that almost state a double income for me, but I never signed them. At least not the copy I have. I'm going to the title company to see if I might have signed them there. God I hope not.

[caldwellb02]

Me again. Title company doesn't have that stuff. Should have known. All I have is a revised application with just my name and several places highlighted that they wanted me to sign - but I didn't, and the company that sent them is out of business (just tried to call).

[mel239]

my loan was for 275,000 I deucted the 4 bills they paid,payoff of my house,cash to us{im looking through our bank accts,I swear I cant remember getting that money,but I have memory problems}anyway I deducted the settlement charges and the reserves taken out.Problem I have,and it might be a simple misunderstanding on my part-but where did the6,784.07 go to?Ive combed all my papers and cant find anything-anybody have ideas where I can look on my papers?

[faith]

Originally Posted by mel239

my loan was for 275,000 I deucted the 4 bills they paid,payoff of my house,cash to us{im looking through our bank accts,I swear I cant remember getting that money,but I have memory problems}anyway I deducted the settlement charges and the reserves taken out.Problem I have,and it might be a simple misunderstanding on my part-but where did the6,784.07 go to?Ive combed all my papers and cant find anything-anybody have ideas where I can look on my papers?

Did you refinance or did loan modification or just bought a house? You can probably find it in the settlement paper and they may have charged you closing costs and other fees. Look for your title company papers, it's in the first 3 pages. The lenders have their own title company and the homeonwer sign their loan documents through the title company. The title company gives a lot of papers to sign about an inch thick without giving us time to read it. While the homeowners are signing the loan documents they have already set aside an unsigned copies of the loan documents that we have signed for us to keep. They get the signed documents, we get the unsigned documents, I think they do that to save time by giving us an unsigned documets. But as a customer, we can demand to make copies of the signed documents and refuse the ones they have prepared ahead of time that is not signed by them or us.

God bless and take care.

[Social Apocalypse]

Mr. M;
Regarding concurrent loans made by the same lender: We did that with an 80/20. I know that was legal.

My questions:
TILA Disc on 2nd mortgage was $0 due at closing with finance charges of $1455. When you multiply the payment amount over the amortization shed, it comes out that we financed the closing costs over the life of the loan.

On the FIRST Hud1: they listed the proceeds from the SECOND mortgage as $84545 (which is the loan amount minus the above finance charges.) Is this NOT a violation? Am I not paying my closing costs on my 2nd loan TWICE??? I am having a hard time getting my attorney to understand that they hit me TWICE with the finance charges on the SECOND. If they were financed into the loan, then I should have gotten the entire 86000 transfered to the first, right? Or am I losing it?

Thanks again, you are always so helpful.

[UtahMatters]

I have a lot of people coming to my organization trying to figure out what to do to get their lenders to work with them on modifications, short sales, etc...

Many of them ask me about a loan audit. When should someone have a loan audit done?

And WHO should they have do it for them?

[faith]

Originally Posted by UtahMatters

I have a lot of people coming to my organization trying to figure out what to do to get their lenders to work with them on modifications, short sales, etc...

Originally Posted by UtahMatters

Many of them ask me about a loan audit. When should someone have a loan audit done?

And WHO should they have do it for them?

UtahMatters,

Hello and welcome to this forum.

A loan audit is a way to know if your loan contains violations that you can use against your lender or servicers. Consumer fraud laws, including requirements that lenders disclose the terms of a loan and borrowers’ cancellation rights, have been important tools for attorneys fighting predatory lenders.

Federal statutes require pre-closing disclosure of estimated loan terms, pre-closing disclosure of actual loan terms for high-rate and high-fee €mortgage loans, and notice when changes are made from the terms applied for by the borrower. State statutes and common law prohibit fraud, deceit, and misrepresentation in loan transactions.

The Truth in Lending Act (TILA) sets out detailed disclosure requirements that govern virtually all consumer credit transactions, with the goal of promoting informed consumer choice. The Real Estate Settlement Practices Act (RESPA)6 dictates procedures and forms for residential real estate closings to make clear to borrowers the true costs of buying and refinancing. Complementary provisions of TILA and RESPA require lenders to provide ‘‘good faith estimates’’ of both loan terms and costs early in the mortgage process.

TILA requires a good faith estimate of its required disclosures, including annual percentage rate, finance charges, payments schedule, and more, also within three business days of submission of a mortgage loan application. However, the requirement applies only to purchase money mortgages. Refinances, where many of the worst practices appear, are not covered.

How do you know if you are a victim of predatory lenders? You need to check your loan documents and check the documents yourself or have a Mortgage Loan Audit performed by legal experts who has expertise in Real Estate . The audit is basically an extensive and thorough examination of your loan documents that you signed when you first got your mortgage loan.

These legal experts examine your loan documents for violations of State and Federal laws. Once your audit is complete, they present to you a written report, outlining all the violations, if any. The costs varies from $1000 to $3000 so you need to ask the lawyer how much they charge. You also need to get a referral or check the lawyers license at State BAR Association to make sure that the lawyer is license to practice law and has no complaint filed against him.

There are some lawyers in this forum, so you probably need to ask them about your concern about loan audit etc. Click the ask the attorney section in this forum, here's the link.

Loan Modification Forum - LoanSafe.org - Powered by vBulletin

If you believe that there’s TILA violations in your loan YOU MUST KNOW WHAT VIOLATIONS WHERE PERFORMED BY THE LENDER. This maybe the key to obtaining a favorable outcome during the Loan Modification process.

As far as Short Sale, the homeowner needs to list the home with a Real Estate Agent within 60-90 days, missed payments about 60-90 days. If the homeowner can show that they are struggling to make payments or are facing some other type of hardship such as a divorce, tenant moving, job transfer, medical emergency, decrease in pay, etc., then a bank will seriously consider approving a short sale.

She must have a buyer with an offer within 85% to 90% of the fair market value of the house, check www.zillow.com or www.Cyberhomes.com to check the recent sold homes to get an idea how much the homes in your area got sold for. She needs to give a letter of authorization to the lender allowing the real estate agent to talk to the lender. The agent submits a Short Sale package to the lender, HUD1 form, listing price, contract, letter of authorization to the lender, buyer’s offer, preapproval letter from the buyer’s Bank.

The link below will give you an idea about Short Sale. Loan Modification guidelines and QWR: http://www.loansafe.org/forum/short-sale-outpost/

http://www.loansafe.org/forum/short-sale-outpost/14207-national-city-short-sale-help.html

http://www.ababj.com/briefing/scare-mail-beware-of-qwr-s.html

https://www.hmpadmin.com/portal/programs/hamp.html>>


http://www.treas.gov/press/releases/...guidelines.pdf>>


If you don’t want to have the Mortgage Loan Audit done, you can write a financial hardship to the lender and be honest to them about your situation that the homeowner can not afford to make the monthly mortgage.

New guidelines for loan modification
Behind on Mortgage Payments
Has a legitimate hardship
Reduced income
Pay cut at work
Reduced hours
New job (Less Pay)
Loss of employment
On disability / worker's comp
Divorce / Separation
Excessive medical bills
Death of Household Provider
Failed Business

The client must demonstrate the inability to meet current financial obligations in order to qualify for Loan Modification. Simply wanting a modification does not qualify a homeowner.



This is not a legal advice but for your information only. God bless and take care.