11 months later, NACA and awful offer from Citi

[Crstl]

I'm so discouraged and wonder if i've come to the end of the line for my little house.

Long story short:
lost job for 8 months fell behind, no help from citimortgage
December 2008 received foreclosure notice
December 2008 new job, much lower pay, finds NACA
NACA gets foreclosure postponed and submits for restructure
Jan - Jun - no word from NACA or Citi
July - another foreclosure notice
NACA gets postponed and requests new docs for submission....what happened to the one's I did way back in December?
August - another NACA "submission" for restructure

Last week - thanks to contact info from these forums I finally get a counselor "Gary" at Citimortgage who actually sees and will call back after he reviews my NACA request.

2 days ago - Sally (who is fast-talking, abrupt and left me feeling she was rushing me into this offer before I could think about it), Gary's "Supervisor" calls me with an "offer" - Traditional modification. Deliquent amount put into principle. Only a 1% reduction in interest rate. New payment = SAME PAYMENT that I CAN'T AFFORD!

I ask Sally at Citimortgage what about FHA-HAMP, what about NACA, what about the HUD approved counselor's request to lower my payment?????

Sally at Citmortgage replies, NACA has no influence (yes, she said this), you're too far past due for HAMP and this is is our one and only offer, take it or leave it! Oh and come up with $1600 in 2 weeks.

Any direction at all will be beyond appreciated.

Crystal

[heidi79]

They are trying to bully you into a mod you can't afford! Don't accept this mod, you will only end up in the same situation and then maybe won't be able to re-apply.

Call FHA servicing center and explain your situation, you are definitely not too far past due if you are late 8 months. Also send emails to the following:

FHA's National Servicing Center
1(888) 297-8685

sharon.green@citi.com (Home Retention Assistant Manager)
hala.farid@citi.com (VP-Deputy Director Homeownership Preservation)

[SillyWorld]

Also NACA is to get any offer you receive from your mortgage comp theyt are suppose to reveiw it to make sure it is affordable

[davephx]

Without the back payment issues do you qualify under the 31% test?

Gross income x 31%
Take out taxes and insurance.
Remaining balance as to amortize current mortgage with rollup of back payment at 2%/40 years.

There are a couple other sticking points with FHA-HAMP especially:

The back end debt to income ratio must not exceed 55 percent and is defined as the total monthly mortgage payment plus all recurring monthly debt divided by the mortgagor’s gross monthly income (the “Back End Ratio”)

[I-LOVE-MOEBEDARD]

Sounds like citi isn't working with NACA very well. I would take Heidi's suggestion and call those folks at FHA. Don't take a mod you can't afford!

If you can, however, it would be great if you could let NACA know what happened. There are alot of people depending on them and if Citi won't work with NACA then they need to know. You could just call Kevin Winn at 617-250-6222 extension 1254 and give him your NACA number and tell him what Citi said. I don't know what he will do with the info, but if Citi is one of the banks that supposedly has a contract with naca there may be something left they can do.

[Crstl]

Originally Posted by heidi79

They are trying to bully you into a mod you can't afford! Don't accept this mod, you will only end up in the same situation and then maybe won't be able to re-apply.

Call FHA servicing center and explain your situation, you are definitely not too far past due if you are late 8 months. Also send emails to the following:

FHA's National Servicing Center
1(888) 297-8685

sharon.green@citi.com (Home Retention Assistant Manager)
hala.farid@citi.com (VP-Deputy Director Homeownership Preservation)

Thank you very much - I will contact those asap. I'm actually beyond 12 mos late (out of work for the 8 mos) so that does exclude me from the HAMP. But it just doesn't "sit right" with me that this is really the best Citimortgage can do...the problem is I'm not savvy enough (yet) to know why.

********, thanks I'll use your contact as well.

I've notified NACA by e-mail (in 11 months I've never had any of my e-mails acknowledged). I'll try to call tomorrow as well.

[Crstl]

FYI - Sharon Green email bounced back

[Crstl]

Just FYI the Sharon Green email bounced back & Hala has an out of office auto reply.

Left a detailed message for Kevin Winn. I'm sure he's beyond swamped but maybe he'll get to mine before I'm out on the street.

I will try every avenue. I just can't bring myself to walk away. That seems so wrong. If everything absolutely fails, I will even try a short sale or a deed in lieu before I just leave what I still feel is my home...and my obligation. Even though I fell behind, I did intend to hold up my end. Walking away doesn't seem right.

That brings me to another disturbing thing...this Sally the Supervisor at Citimortgage (480) 753-2968 even mentioned "walking away". She clearly didn't care whether the mod worked, whether I accepted it or not. I know their overloaded but....

Whatever the outcome, I'll return to post.

Through this year of research and struggle I was SO hoping I'd be one of the success stories I hear about. Sally at Citimortgage says that all those 2% and 3% interest rates are a fairytale and I should jump of the 5% because that may go up in 2 weeks as well.

I hate that I spent 11 months depending on NACA - if I'd known it was all for nothing, I could have gotten in on the partial claim or the FHA-HAMP before I got past the 12 month mark.

Now I'm trying to make myself accept that this may not continue to be my home.

[davephx]

Sorry to tell you under FHA-HAMP Sally may be right. There is no 2% interest only market and the modification is based on a "partial claim" which defers up to 30% of principal. You can not be more than 12 months delinquent. It is very different (and more confusing) than the regular HAMP

Summary
FHA-HAMP

Is very different from regular HAMP in at least in these areas:

1) Must be delinquent at least 1 month but not more than 12 months.

2) There is no 2% interest rate - the interest rate is based on current rates unlike HAMPs 2% base.

3) There is no 40 year extended term as with HAMP. 30 years max after "partial claim" defers part -see next

4) Modification is done by a partial claim which defers the repayment of mortgage principal up to 30% through an interest-free subordinate mortgage that is not due until the first mortgage is paid of.

5) The back end debt/income ration can not exceed 55%. Unlike regular HAMP over 55% only requires agree to credit counseling.

Example from FHA-Mortgage Letter 2009-23 July 30, 2009:

Mortgagor had a reduction of income and is delinquent 3 full mortgage payments. The unpaid principal balance on the mortgage on the date of default is $150,000 and the monthly payment is $1,220 (consisting of P&I of $920 and escrows, including MIP, of $300). The financial analysis reveals that the mortgagor’s gross monthly income is $3,500 and the total monthly other recurring debt payments are $800.

In order to fulfill the 31% Front End Ratio requirement, the mortgagor(s) total monthly mortgage payment would have to be reduced to $1,085 ($3,500 x 31%). Therefore, P&I would have to be reduced to $785 ($1,085 total monthly mortgage payment less $300 escrow and MIP). Assuming that the loan modification will have an interest rate of 6% and a P&I of $785, the new mortgage amount would have to be $130,931, resulting in a principal reduction of $19,069 ($150,000 unpaid principal balance less $130,931). In this example, the mortgagor’s Back End ratio is 53.9% ($1,885/$3,500), which satisfies the 55% Back End Ratio limitation.

In this example, the maximum principal deferment is $41,340 (30% of $150,000, less the $3,660 delinquency, or $45,000 - $3,660). However, based on their gross income, mortgagor is eligible only for a principal deferment of $19,069 plus $3,660 arrearages (which would include any foreclosure costs incurred to that point, in accord with Mortgagee Letter 2008-21) for the total Partial Claim of $22,729.

IN ADDITION there is the Hope for Homeowners Program with guidance issued 10/20/09.
But it's a refinance program with a maximum loan-to-value ratio of 90 or 96.5% and a more restrictive back end ratio of 43% or 50% so won't help much vs the FHA-HAMP.

Details at http://www.hud.gov/offices/adm/hudcl...es/09-43ml.doc

[Crstl]

Thanks for reply. I haven't read it all yet but I will in a sec.

But just want to clarify, I fully understand that I'm past the point of being eligible for the FHA-HAMP.

What I want to know is isn't there something they can offer me other than a payment that's 51% of my gross income?????????

[SillyWorld]

And us FHA peeps gotta wait long time for any kind of agreement

[davephx]

They can offer anything they wish but we are totally at their mercy for inhouse mods.

[Crstl]

Sounds like I was very, very naive to believe that Citimortgage would actually assist with saving my home. Why have all these adjectives in the titles like "save" and "preservation" when you have no intention on doing so?

I'm not asking for a free ride, just some assistance. Okay not 31%, but certainly 58% of gross isn't even an attempt to help me.

I've also been delusional to think that NACA has any influence at all with Citimortgage.

I need to get up the nerve to think about packing and which apartment options I have with my credit shot.

I will keep trying but ultimately I'm afraid it's time for me to wake up from "saving the dream".


This is hard.

[davephx]

Sadly I think your problem is too low income obviously for what Citi is willing to offer on inhouse deal.

They did offer to rollup of about a year of back payments and reduce your interest 1%. But with the rollup that probably results in higher payments or about that same as before. And they let you go this long with out foreclosure sale.

I know this is harsh and terrible I'm just looking analtically at the facts.

As the mod person who was here that worked for Citi said, they don't really have good inhouse deals if you don't qualify for HAMP or have Fannie or Feddie as investor. You have about the hardest situation with FHA.

Also Sally/Gary are just the messengers its underwriting you never talk to that makes the decision. I am sure they don't like giving bad news and may have to be a bit too the point when having to tell many folks they don't qualify.

[SillyWorld]

You have to know thAT fha LOANS ARE BACKED BY gov, IF WE CANNOT PAY or do not PAY the mortgage Comp gets all owed $$$ VIA and Insurance by FHA, thats one draw back we have

[davephx]

Originally Posted by SillyWorld

You have to know thAT fha LOANS ARE BACKED BY gov, IF WE CANNOT PAY or do not PAY the mortgage Comp gets all owed $$$ VIA and Insurance by FHA, thats one draw back we have

Good point but let me (and others) be clear on who is who.....

In your case as I recall (like me but not FHA) Citi is the servicer. They do not take the loss the investor or whoever owns the mortgage does. In my case Fannie.

In your case... do you know who the actual investor is. FHA insures and often GINNA puts it into a mortgage pool or may own itself, I am not clear.

The FHA insured amount would make whole the mortgage owner but in your case I am not clear who that is. You may not either. Citi may also be the owner but it may just be the servicer.

Another problem is that even if Citi wants to approve they have to also get approval from owner. For those of us fortunate by luck to have Fannie they usually approve and also have alternatives if for some reason don't qualify for HAMP. Likewise to a lessor degree Freddie. Private Investors are the hardest to get approval from.

[Crstl]

Originally Posted by davephx

Sadly I think your problem is too low income obviously for what Citi is willing to offer on inhouse deal.

They did offer to rollup of about a year of back payments and reduce your interest 1%. But with the rollup that probably results in higher payments or about that same as before. And they let you go this long with out foreclosure sale.

I know this is harsh and terrible I'm just looking analtically at the facts.

As the mod person who was here that worked for Citi said, they don't really have good inhouse deals if you don't qualify for HAMP or have Fannie or Feddie as investor. You have about the hardest situation with FHA.

Also Sally/Gary are just the messengers its underwriting you never talk to that makes the decision. I am sure they don't like giving bad news and may have to be a bit too the point when having to tell many folks they don't qualify.

Dave, are Sally and Gary friends of yours??? LOL just kidding. Anyway, I don't fault you for your honesty and I don't think for a moment that I haven't really given thought to many of the same points you make here.

I honestly do understand that Citi doesn't *have* to make even this offer. Being this far out, it is significant they're willing to make an offer. What's disturbing my inner principles is the contrived (and occasionally shady) way Citimortgage, NACA, the Govt. and various other parties handle things.

I won't even get started on NACA but if indeed Citimortgage and I have gotten this far out, why not just make it affordable (not comfortable, just not strangling) and have a stable customer going forward? Why prefer to foreclose, let the property lie desolate forever till they can pawn it off? For crying out loud, I'm such a small fish: A little $135,000 mortgage, a house that the county just assessed at $90,000.

That's rhetorical, but you know what I mean.

[Ezybrezy]

I have an interesting situation ........... I applied for a loan mod. on my home back in June 2009. I was accepted and went thru 4 months of trial payments. After going over my papers, handing my paper work to various counselors, I was sent papers stating that I was approved and to sign the paper work. So, I went to a notary, signed the paper work, then 3 days later, I received a copy of the paper work signed by Citimortgage notary finalizing the deal. My first payment was due December 1, 2009

I didnt get the initial mod I was given during my trial because they said I made more, but I thought even a savings of 300 a month is better than nothing, especially in these times. Yesterday we got a letter from Citi stating that we didnt qualify for the HAMP program and our initial mortgage has been reinstated. We are shocked, especially since we dont have the funds to make up what is owed for the last few months.
Can that happen? Can they deny you even though the papers have been signed on both sides?

Are there other programs besides HAMP? This has been such grueling experience.

[heidi79]

Unfortunately they can deny you after signatures and many many trial payments. Call them right away and see if they can give you an internal mod.

[Crstl]

I promised to update:

I spoke to another rep at Citi (more cordial even though he repeated the same script) and have received the papers for this unaffordable loan modification from Citimortgage.

This representative of Citimortgage also did not recognize NACA as having any influence at all. Is Citimortgage aware that NACA even exists?

Oh yeah, they must because Citimortgage used my financials etc. from the NACA submission but ignored NACA's actual request.

It appears that NACA is just serving as Citimortgage's glorified Administrative Assistant. Which is oddly funny but very disappointing

I faxed these to NACA per their request and I'm waiting to hear from a NACA "Negotiator". Citi wants the paper and $1700 down payment by 12/15/09.

Stay Tuned

[Ezybrezy]

I just wanted to give an update on our situation with Citi Mortgage.
I received a letter from them stating that we didnt qualify. After calling in several times and speaking to 2 supervisors, they told me to ignore the letter, that the HAMP program was applied and we were approved. We didnt get the original loan we were asked to pay in our trial but we are saving about 300 a month.
There was another good thing that happened with this modification that I didnt realize until we got our first official bill. Since my interest rate is 2.75% for 5 years, Im getting about 200 more a month that's applied towards my principal balance each month. So, I guess you could say they made a 500 difference in our situation, because our loan is $327.00 less every month and now instead of only $300.00 being applied to our principal balance every month, $500.00 is going towards it.

All I can say is you have to keep calling and hounding them. They were passing my papers around to so many counselors. Thats why at one point my account got closed and I wasnt even notified. The only way I found out was because I was calling in every 2 days to find out about any updates. They finally re-opened it, (no one knew how or why it got closed) and that prolonged my process even further. Then there was confusion because I would receive different information from different people. Some said I was approved, even the recording and their website told me I was approved, but others kept telling me no, not yet ......... wait for this ........ we still need that .....etc. It's a mess.
I did speak to 1 person who was extremely helpful and would look into my situation and try to help me. She was a blessing from God, because even though she wasnt in charge of my file throughout this whole process, she made calls and emails to try and find out what was going on. She was the only one that seemed to genuinely want to help me. The other counselors never even contacted me, I had to track them down. They would never return phone calls; the only time a counselor called me was to tell me that they needed more bank statements and some information was missing. Other than that, I kept calling to try and pry information from them.

[Crstl]

The latest with NACA:

My NACA online status has some pointless, erroneous "update".

It states that I've received an "offer" of a "NACA Forebearance - 3 months" (Forebearance applies to unemployed which doesn't even apply to me) and contains some outrageous numbers way above my existing payment or above the modification offer. No start or end date, or any other details.

Didn't know whether to reject - so I selected need review. Hope to hear from a negotiator. I'll be leaving a message for poor Kevin Winn as well.

[keepthefaith123]

Crstl, prior today's update, did you have an update stating that you had received an inital approval but the final approval would have to come from the investor/underwriter?

[Crstl]

Keepthefaith - this is what appears
Type: NACA Forbearance Term: 3 months
PITI: 212 PI: 838 Taxes: 236 Insurance: 0
HOA: 0 PMI: 53 Term: Rate: 0
Principal: Value:
Delinquent Interest: Late Fees: Late Penalties: 769 Unpaid Escrows: 3717
Servicer Comment:
Above is the initial proposal, and still needs to be sent to underwriter/investor for FINAL approval.

What that means as far as what exactly i pay and when escapes me.

I did not return those modification papers to Citimortgage and today Matt at Citimortgage called to say they are closing my case in loss mitigation. So I expect more foreclosure papers to follow closely.

I have called to speak with a negotiator as NACA instructed, but have not received a reply to phone or e-mail. Doing another round of trying again today.