My story with Metlife

[Harry Seaward]

I lost my $50k/yr job in January of '08. My wife was still working so we had income, but not enough to cover all of our expenses. I worked odd jobs and made a few bucks here and there but basically supplemented with savings, credit cards and money we borrowed for the next year. We stayed current on everything with the exception of a couple 30-day lates here and there.

I called Metlife in December of '08 while I was current and told them I hadn't worked for a year and depleted savings, lived off credit cards, etc and had no more money available and I was going to have to stop paying my mortgage.

They gave me the same retarded response everyone apparently gets which was they could do nothing for me until I got behind. I told them to expect me to start getting behind then.

I started work on a temp assignment through a placement agency in mid January '09.

Metlife sent out the first 'workout' packet in mid-December. I filled it out and returned it mid-February 09 (was waiting until I filed my taxes, but when I called Metlife again they said not to worry about sending tax returns so I sent the packet right after that).

Didn't hear back for a couple months and then got a notice in early May that my case was 'under review' and would hear something within 15-30 days.

6 weeks or so later I got their 'offer' which lowered my $2035 payment not even $50. I had to make my first $1988 payment by July 7 if I wanted to accept their offer. $50 was no relief whatsoever, plus the temp assignment I was working ended in mid-June so I was unemployed again.

I called Metlife to find out what I should do now that my financial circumstances had changed. They told me they would "delete" the current workout and send me a new workout packet to provide my current financial information.

I sent it back certified mail, return receipt and it was delivered to them on July 22. I didn't include pay stubs or tax returns since they told me they did not need this information when I sent in the previous packet.

I got called back for another job assignment just after I sent the packet in, so now the financials are not accurate again.

I got the notice of trustee sale at the end of July/beginning of August. I called them to find out WTF and they said it's just a formality since I didn't accept their offer They had no record yet of my 2nd workout packet being received. They said they are very backed up and that once it gets entered into their system it will get assigned to a 'negotiator' who would start the review process and suspend the auction date. I was also told that if I were to list my house as a short sale, they would suspend the auction for about 3 months.

I have received nothing from them since, but given how long things took the first time around, I was not concerned. I marked my calendar to call them on September 23 (1 month from the auction date).

I called on the 23rd and was told that my case was being reviewed and my auction would be suspended as long as it was 'under review'. The person I spoke to said they sent me a request to provide additional documentation on the 17th (I mistakenly thought she meant the 17th of Sept. - see below) and asked if I had received a FedEx packet from them after the 17th. I told her I hadn't. She said they had no record of a tracking number (they keep a tracking number record of all documents they send via FedEx) but explained it as they were very backed up and the packet probably hadn't been sent yet, but I should expect it soon. She x-ferred me to the loss mitigation/alternative resolution dept to make sure they had my file and were reviewing it. No answer there but after about 10 minutes of hold music I was dumped into a voice mail box and I left a message. They never called me back.

I called Metlife a week later (~29th) and was told that since I had a workout packet pending (I told them this since I thought I did), I needed to speak to First American (the workout plan administrator for Metlife). They x-ferred me to FA who told me that the only record they had of a workout plan was the first one which I "refused" (lol) and that I needed to talk to Metlife to see if they will accept a new workout I tried to explain that I already completed a new workout and sent it in on the 22 of July, but they said there was nothing in their system and that my file had been sent back to Metlife. Called Metlife again and they immediately said I needed to talk to FA. Nope, already talked to them and they said I had to talk to you. After a few minutes of silence, Metlife rep found the notes (as if they were not available to her the entire time) indicating they had received the 2nd workout packet on July 22. I asked what is going on with it then and she says they sent a request for more information on the 17th. Right, says I, and ask for a tracking number. No has it. Ok, since you have no proof you sent it and I'm telling you I never got it, it seems pretty clear it was never sent. Then she says, this was on the 17th of August and that I should have called in before now. Wait, AUGUST? So the week before when the rep said "the 17th" and I assumed it was September, it was really AUGUST? OMG! Had I realized that the week before I would have demanded they send me another packet right then. Instead I lost another week waiting for this phantom FedEx packet to arrive. Awesome. Now what, I ask. I need Metlife to stop my auction so I can get them the documents they never asked me for. Well, I can talk to the loss mitigation/alternative resolution department, says she. I told her I left them a message and they haven't called me back. She says they will this time. I ask what's different, and she says "it's the end of the month." WHA?? Whatever. I left another message for them and of course they never called me back.

I decided I had nothing to lose so I went to the NACA event in Phx and was told my workout had been submitted to Metlife and they also sent over the thing to stop the auction and that I needed to call Metlife in a few days to see if they received the workout and request to stop the auction. I don't really have a "few days" since that's about when my house is going on the block.

I called the loss mitigation or alternative resolutions department (whatever they call themselves these days) just this morning and actually spoke to a human being, if you can call her that. She incredibly rude, insensitive, arrogant and thick-as-a-brick. She said they would send out a new workout packet. I was trying to find out what the process is since there are only 2 weeks left before my house goes on the block. She kept telling me over and over that they would review my case and if they determined they needed to stay the sale date, they would do that. Fine, but is there enough time to get my packet in and have it reviewed before the 23rd? She repeated her above statement. We did this about 5 times and each time I tried to make it more clear that I was concerned that they would get my packet on the 17th (for example) and it would sit in their pile until the 25 (for example) and by the time someone got around to looking at it, my auction date will have passed. She said "your auction date has not passed, sir. It's scheduled for the 23rd." Yeah... It was a good 10 minutes of this absurdity.

The only way we can keep the house is if Metlife restructures my loan to a lower principal. My value is about $170k and my current mortgage balance is $260k. I don't see Metlife taking a $100k hit on my loan when they can have a trustee sale and cash in on the insurance policy to recover their losses. I've sort of resolved that we're going to lose our house. All I really want now is a few more weeks to give us a chance to get some cash together, find a place to rent and get things packed.

So that's where I am. I don't know if there's any 11th-hour options that I haven't explored, but I'm certainly open to suggestions. I considered filing BK to stop the sale, but BK will cost me $2000 now and another $1000 to respond to Metlife's motion to release the stay. I'll be out of pocket $3000 to give myself another 30 days with no guarantee of anything beyond that. Seems better to dump the house and use the $3000 towards security deposits, rent and moving expenses to go somewhere else.

By the way, I recorded the phone calls with Metlife and FA (this is legal in AZ). Some of the statements made by Metlife and FA would make for juicy evening news coverage. I'm seriously thinking of putting them on a CD and mailing them to the CEO of Metlife with a note that if they don't start working with me proper, this CD would find it's way to the local media. I don't know if I have enough time for this tactic, though.

[darlyj]

Are you absolutely positive that recording is legal in AZ? Did you need the other person's consent? If it IS legal, then I wouldn't make any threats along with the CD - just contact local media and make note of the fact that you have in your letter to the CEO. I'd be willing to bet that they'd call you back then. I'm just north of Prescott...let me know if you are going to make it onto the news. That is one story I would LOVE to see.

[rkel11]

Harry,
Did you say you are with NACA? If so make sure you let them know about the sale date and they will get it postponed for you. Just make sure you keep calling and emailing and if yuou don't hear anything staert calling and emailing NACA supervisors. Their numbers and addys are lisdted on this forum.
Good luke and keep us posted.....

[Harry Seaward]

Originally Posted by darlyj

Are you absolutely positive that recording is legal in AZ? Did you need the other person's consent? If it IS legal, then I wouldn't make any threats along with the CD - just contact local media and make note of the fact that you have in your letter to the CEO. I'd be willing to bet that they'd call you back then. I'm just north of Prescott...let me know if you are going to make it onto the news. That is one story I would LOVE to see.

Positive.

A.R.S. 13-3005(A)(1) says only that you have to be a party to the conversation to "intercept" it. 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2511(2)(d) (Federal law) says the same thing and if calls cross state lines, it seems that Federal law takes precedence.

Every time I call Metlife, their phone system says "this call may be recorded". This is their consent to have the call recorded in the event it ever became a legal question.

I've emailed the local media with a brief version of my story and am waiting to see what they say. I'll keep you posted on what I find out.

BTW, I'm not a lawyer so you shouldn't rely on my position as any sort of authoritative legal advice. I've had to deal with collection agencies calling and harassing me and I did quite a bit of research on credit and debt collection law to be able to turn the tables on the collectors, and having recorded telephone conversations has been an invaluable part of my success.

[Harry Seaward]

Originally Posted by rkel11

Harry,
Did you say you are with NACA? If so make sure you let them know about the sale date and they will get it postponed for you. Just make sure you keep calling and emailing and if yuou don't hear anything staert calling and emailing NACA supervisors. Their numbers and addys are lisdted on this forum.
Good luke and keep us posted.....

I've told them 4 times this week. They keep telling me "the information has been submitted to the servicer".
After reading around here the last few days, I really don't think NACA has any pull with the servicers that are not a part of their little clique.

[rkel11]

Have you filled out the sale date online? If not, do so.(NACA website) Then call some more. It can be done.
I will be thinking about you and please keep trying......

[Harry Seaward]

I did it online twice and in person twice. I have to think my bases are covered.
As of yesterday morning, Metlife didn't have a record of being contacted by NACA yet. Of course the break down could be on either side - I'm not pointing finger in either direction. Just updating that as of a week into the NACA rat race, there's no progress.

A few words keep ringing in my ears. First, the guy that did our orientation (don't know his name but he reminded me of Gordon from Sesamie Street) said "If you have an auction pending, tell your counselor as soon as you sit down with them. We will stop your sale today." My sale was not stopped that day nor any day since, for that matter.
Second, this same guy said "We leave no one behind. We help everyone." He said there had only been one complaint and it was a lady that complained to the media about NACA and after they investigated, it turned out they asked her for documents and she never responded. Clearly there are more that one person that that have fallen through the cracks.
Third, was when I was talking to my counselor, I asked what NACA's success rate was and she said "97%". Impossible given what I've seen here.

These were the three most important points for me in going to the event and I was willing to give them a couple of days given that it was a weekend and a big event, but as the days roll on with no change, I'm starting to believe all three of these points were lies and NACA's credibility with me is for crap right now.

[Harry Seaward]

Quick update.

I contacted the local news stations (Fox 10, NBC 12 and ABC 15) last week and not one of them responded to me. They are probably buried with these kinds of calls.

I called Metlife today and they said they didn't know who NACA was and had received nothing from them. No surprise, but it just reinforces my belief that NACA is worthless if your bank is not in bed with them.

The person I spoke with today at Metlife was incredibly helpful. I asked her how to get my auction date postponed and she said "I'll be glad to submit that request for you". My jaw hit the floor. She says the postponement is basically a guaranteed thing as long as there is activity from the customer and since I'm the one requesting it, that could be evidence of activity. She says it takes 24 hours for the request to be processed and to get the trustee notified so I'm going to call Metlife back in a couple days and if they say it's been postponed, I'll call the trustee and see if they got the memo.

I have no idea what the rep from last week was smoking, but she SUCKED!

[pdsfoley]

Originally Posted by Harry Seaward

Quick update.

I contacted the local news stations (Fox 10, NBC 12 and ABC 15) last week and not one of them responded to me. They are probably buried with these kinds of calls.

I called Metlife today and they said they didn't know who NACA was and had received nothing from them. No surprise, but it just reinforces my belief that NACA is worthless if your bank is not in bed with them.

The person I spoke with today at Metlife was incredibly helpful. I asked her how to get my auction date postponed and she said "I'll be glad to submit that request for you". My jaw hit the floor. She says the postponement is basically a guaranteed thing as long as there is activity from the customer and since I'm the one requesting it, that could be evidence of activity. She says it takes 24 hours for the request to be processed and to get the trustee notified so I'm going to call Metlife back in a couple days and if they say it's been postponed, I'll call the trustee and see if they got the memo.

I have no idea what the rep from last week was smoking, but she SUCKED!

OMG Harry........What a train wreck!!! I'm praying you get the postponement...Geeeeeeeeez.......its a fricken circus were all in!!!

[davephx]

Harry,

Not sure I have commented on your situation before...just reading the detail -- I've read so many threads I can't always keep track of things...or if you have read some of my comments but....

Your in a very similar situation with the foreclosure that I am in with CitiMortgage. Should have never done the foreclosure to start with since you and I were actively pursuing a mod.

Try this - instead of an extension of the sale date see if they will give you a Foreclosure Hold with no sale date.

I need to talk to a lawyer to be absolutely sure about this but I was told by "supervisor of supervisors" after I had to claw my way up the pyramid at Citi - they have to completely restart the notification period in order to reset the sale date.

In AZ I believe (and hope) that means a new 90 day notification period IF they reactivate the foreclosure. My sup of sup (called their manager unit) says she will also look into my case and if can see I was falsely foreclosed and if they agree would reverse it and cancel the legal fees etc being charged. I was told May 4th that I had been approved May 1st. Interesting that was the day that Citi first approved HAMPs. Yet I got a foreclosure notice.

I have supposedly been sent about 12 phantom UPS packages that never came.

I have also been in touch with McCain and Kyles office - they just forward to OBB (or whatever it is I forget)

On NACA sale date postponements-

At NACA Phoenix I was sent to the "auction team" and the guy did a lot on his computer related to the stopping the sale date. But he was also very clear it was no guarantee just a third party attempt and I should continue to plead with servicer (Citi in my case) This is far different from what you and I were both told in orientation "We will stop your sale today."

But then I also did the online stop sale thing about a week later.

I actually did get a quick reply from NACA which almost screwed me up but that was my fault I was getting so desperate to be sure the date got postponed. Both NACA and Citi Manager (supervisor of supervisors) requested a 90 day postponement which I understand is about the most you can get in AZ.

You probably got the same NACA e-mail that basically they said they will try but you should also keep "pleading" with the servicer.

Turns out from Citi directly I got the unexpected no sale date hold instead of 90 days.

But then after the date my no sale date was approved (which was actually last week but I didn't find out till yesterday) NACA e-mailed saying the 90 day delay was approved..... so than I am concerned that 90 day approval after the no sales date may have canceled the no sales date earlier by Citi. Again my fault since I had both trying to get a 90 day extension.

But I checked to today and it looks like the no sales date hold ... held, and that is what is in the Citi computer today.

I also was on "please wait for the next available representative" call for over 2 hours today before I gave up trying to reach the foreclosure trustee to be sure their computer also has the hold with no sales date. I gave up about 5:30 AZ time feeling the department probably went home and I would be on hold all night!

I should note that the mod dept reps had also many times did their thing to stop the sale but most said it is not done until the day before the sale!!!!!! NO, I can't be that much at risk. Unlike you I am absolutely desperate to keep the house, I really don't care how far underwater it is.

You also have a more difficult situation wanting principal reduction which from posts here is very rare... but has occurred for a few lucky ones.

We are all in the same circus with different servicers and investors.

[Harry Seaward]

Originally Posted by davephx

Harry,

Not sure I have commented on your situation before...just reading the detail -- I've read so many threads I can't always keep track of things...or if you have read some of my comments but....

Your in a very similar situation with the foreclosure that I am in with CitiMortgage. Should have never done the foreclosure to start with since you and I were actively pursuing a mod.

Try this - instead of an extension of the sale date see if they will give you a Foreclosure Hold with no sale date.

I need to talk to a lawyer to be absolutely sure about this but I was told by "supervisor of supervisors" after I had to claw my way up the pyramid at Citi - they have to completely restart the notification period in order to reset the sale date.

In AZ I believe (and hope) that means a new 90 day notification period IF they reactivate the foreclosure. My sup of sup (called their manager unit) says she will also look into my case and if can see I was falsely foreclosed and if they agree would reverse it and cancel the legal fees etc being charged. I was told May 4th that I had been approved May 1st. Interesting that was the day that Citi first approved HAMPs. Yet I got a foreclosure notice.

I have supposedly been sent about 12 phantom UPS packages that never came.

I have also been in touch with McCain and Kyles office - they just forward to OBB (or whatever it is I forget)

On NACA sale date postponements-

At NACA Phoenix I was sent to the "auction team" and the guy did a lot on his computer related to the stopping the sale date. But he was also very clear it was no guarantee just a third party attempt and I should continue to plead with servicer (Citi in my case) This is far different from what you and I were both told in orientation "We will stop your sale today."

But then I also did the online stop sale thing about a week later.

I actually did get a quick reply from NACA which almost screwed me up but that was my fault I was getting so desperate to be sure the date got postponed. Both NACA and Citi Manager (supervisor of supervisors) requested a 90 day postponement which I understand is about the most you can get in AZ.

You probably got the same NACA e-mail that basically they said they will try but you should also keep "pleading" with the servicer.

Turns out from Citi directly I got the unexpected no sale date hold instead of 90 days.

But then after the date my no sale date was approved (which was actually last week but I didn't find out till yesterday) NACA e-mailed saying the 90 day delay was approved..... so than I am concerned that 90 day approval after the no sales date may have canceled the no sales date earlier by Citi. Again my fault since I had both trying to get a 90 day extension.

But I checked to today and it looks like the no sales date hold ... held, and that is what is in the Citi computer today.

I also was on "please wait for the next available representative" call for over 2 hours today before I gave up trying to reach the foreclosure trustee to be sure their computer also has the hold with no sales date. I gave up about 5:30 AZ time feeling the department probably went home and I would be on hold all night!

I should note that the mod dept reps had also many times did their thing to stop the sale but most said it is not done until the day before the sale!!!!!! NO, I can't be that much at risk. Unlike you I am absolutely desperate to keep the house, I really don't care how far underwater it is.

You also have a more difficult situation wanting principal reduction which from posts here is very rare... but has occurred for a few lucky ones.

We are all in the same circus with different servicers and investors.

Hi Dave,
Yeah, I've been following your saga and with the exception of having different servicers, we have traveled a similar road. What's sad is I know our similarities are not due to coincidence but simply due to the fact that there are just so many people getting jerked around like this that our stories are not at all unique.

I have never received a thing from NACA after I left the event. They never even emailed me my password for their website. I had to call them and wait on hold forever to get it. Meanwhile, my status still says "submitted to servicer". I've given up on dealing with them. If your servicer is not one of the "chosen few", you're SOL in working with NACA.

I've also pretty much given up on trying to save my house. My wife and I had a come to jesus talk after we met with a BK lawyer last week and pretty much decided that unless Metlife/Fannie Mae will reduce the principal, it doesn't make sense to keep the house. We're $80k in the hole and the market is still falling. I always viewed real estate as an asset and if we fell on hard times we could take out a 2nd or in the worst case, sell it and live off the equity until we got back on our feet. She's still optimistic about the market rebounding, and I know it will but realistically, it's going to take at least 10 years to get right side up and while everything has stabilized for us financially for the time being, we'll be right back where we are now if we fall on hard times again before we have any positive equity.

I remember when the Obama plan first came out there was a lot of talk about reducing principal to match current market value. That was about all I heard, in fact. Metlife even mentioned this as a possibility when I called them 10 months ago. Maybe I heard what I wanted to hear, but now I don't hear anything about this actually happening. It's all interest rate reductions if anything at all.

I just found out about "cash for keys" the day before yesterday and I think that's going to be my plan of attack now. I'm going to go through the motions of submitting a new work out, but given the results from the last two, I don't have high expectations. I'm not going to request any more sale date extensions and just let it ride. I'll stay in touch with them so I can know what they're up to and also so we're on the record as "willing homeowners", but but I'm ready to be done with this chapter of my life so I can start sleeping again. When we get the sale notice, we'll start the cash for keys negotiation. I'm thinking I'll be using knownick's strategy from this thread:
How do I negotiate Cash for Keys?

[Harry Seaward]

Another update:
Called Metlife Default Resolutions (this is actually the name of the department I thought was Loss Mitigation or Alternative Resolutions) again today.
The girl told me that as of yesterday my auction has been put on "hold" but was still showing a date of the 23rd.

I asked what it meant that the date still said the 23rd when she was saying the auction was put on hold. She said the hold means it's not going to auction but they haven't rescheduled a new date yet so their system still shows the 23rd. Why not just clear the date then? Anyway, it looks like I got the thing DavePhx was talking about and not the 30 day extension the other Metlife person mentioned.

I got the number for the trustee and called them. They said they don't have any notice from Metlife that the auction has been put on hold but gave me the direct numbers of the person at the trustee's office that is in charge of my file and her assistant. They were not in when I called this morning and I had to leave for work before they were supposed to be in. I'm going to try to call them Monday and see what I can find out.

Considering Metlife just approved the auction hold yesterday, I'm not too concerned the trustee hasn't gotten the notice yet. If there's no news by Monday I'll start turning up the heat.

[davephx]

Well... while different servicers I also ran into a similar trustee problem when I called today. I don't trust the Citi computers so I wanted to check what the trustee was showing since they control the sales.

Still showed 10/26 sale date....sigh.... but than she checks another system and sees Citi did put on hold with no sales date. She says they usually update the Trustee system a few days before the sale to get latest status from Citi. The Trustee is an affiliate of Citi!

But - after seeing the Citi hold she says she e-mails the Trustee attorneys (vs all the Citi Attorneys all has to go thru) and they should note it by Monday on the Trustee computer.....

BUT... unlike what the supervisor of supervisors told me the Trustee only does holds for 30 days at a time! So every 30 days have to contact them, they check that its still on hold and delay another 30 days. What a mess.

She also said once out 30 days they can not reverse and do any sooner. I expressed concern about the reports of no notice next day sales and she said that can happen but only if there is no 30 day extension and can not go backward with the dates.

What I don't know yet, is where the guy that sits in the chair in the front of the Courthouse that does the sales gets his info. I hope he doesn't have yet another database that needs to be notified not to sell!

[Harry Seaward]

I thought it was time to post an update...

It was confirmed on October 19 that the auction that was scheduled for Oct 23 was stayed indefinitely and I was told that Metlife reviews these every 30 days to decide if they need to go back to auction.

I submitted my 3rd workout packet on the 9th of November. In previous workout packets I included a 'hardship' letter that was not very specific about my situation and what I could afford. This time around I went into a lot more detail about the history of what lead to the delinquency and also stated a monthly payment I was comfortable with and gave them suggestions for arriving at this payment (i.e. reduce interest, eliminate PMI, etc). It's been about 2 months since they received the packet and I haven't heard a word yet. No surprise since it took 4 months to get a response the first time.

It's now been over a year since I made my last mortgage payment and I'm still in my home with no indication that they want me out.

By they way, I never did get any response whatsoever from NACA. When I log in to my account on their website there is no status now (before it said something like 'waiting on response from servicer') and it's as if I never submitted anything to them at all. In my experience they were a largely useless organization as well as a colossal waste of time and emotion and I have no hesitation in spreading the word about them and their lies/misrepresentations. The only beneficial thing that came from my NACA experience is I learned mine is a Fannie Mae loan and Metlife is not the lender but actually the servicer.